New iPhone info model info

Thinner, cheaper (with 2-year AT&T contract), 3G, and GPS.

I've been considering an iPhone since I discovered the disappointing reviews and design decision of the AT&T Tilt (8925), that I was so looking forward to as an upgrade to my old 8125.

The main things that initially turned me off of the iPhone was lack of SDK (now released) and lack of integrated GPS (I'm tired of lugging my little BT GPS receiver around). 3G was less of an issue then but has become more of an issue now, especially with an iPhone data plan.

Well it looks like the 2nd gen iPhone will address those issues, so I'm glad I waited. )

http//techland.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2008/04/29/att-to-cut-the-price-of-apples-new-iphone/

[quotee0a0a844df]AT&T to cut the price of Apple’s new iPhone

By Scott Moritz, writer

AT&T (T) is planning to put some extra shine on the even sleeker new Apple (AAPL) iPhone.

When the 3G iPhone is introduced this summer, AT&T, the exclusive U.S. iPhone sales partner with Apple, will cut the price by as much as $200, according to a person familiar with the strategy.

AT&T is preparing to subsidize $200 of the cost of a new iPhone, bringing the price down to $199 for customers who sign two-year contracts, the source says. Apple is expected to have two versions of the new iPhone, an 8-gigabyte-memory and a 16-gigabyte-memory model with price tags widely expected to be $399 and $499.

AT&T and Apple declined to comment.

At $200, the iPhone would be within reach of a much wider consumer market and give AT&T a strong magnet to pull lucrative customers away from rivals like Verizon Wireless (VZ), Sprint (S) and T-Mobile (DT). The $200 rebate or subsidy would be limited to AT&T customers and not available through Apple’s stores. The new iPhone sold by AT&T will likely be locked or programmed so buyers can’t take the cheaper iPhone to another phone service.

Subsidies of $100 to $200 are common in the U.S. phone market, where people buy their phones from their carriers. Lowering the consumer cost of the phone to win two-year subscribers is considered a small investment with a quick payoff. The average monthly wireless bill is around $50, so a phone company can recoup the phone’s cost in a matter of months.

The average iPhone user however, runs up a $100 tab each month due to the higher priced data and calling plan. This would give AT&T an even quicker payback on its $200 outlay. But AT&T doesn’t get to keep all the money it collects from its iPhone users. Unlike most other phonemakers (but like BlackBerry maker Research in Motion (RIMM)) Apple has a revenue-sharing arrangement that requires telcos like AT&T to pay somewhere between 9% and 25% of the money collected each month from iPhone users.

The new iPhone is expected to be released on the one-year anniversary of the original iPhone debut June 27 or thereabouts. A few weeks prior to that launch, Apple is planning to stop supplies of the older model iPhone, according to the source. This will help clear out inventory and stir up demand for the new device. It will also attempt to avoid the public relations pratfall Apple made when it cut the price of the iPhone without warning last year. To soothe the ire among people who bought the iPhone just before the sudden markdown, Apple issued store credits.

A few details about the new iPhone have also been confirmed by the source. The new iPhone will be 2.5 mm thinner than the 11.7 mm original. The iPhone will also have a GPS chip for navigation and other location-based services.
[/quotee0a0a844df]

Sweet........I think I'm due for an upgrade in a few months and I'd love to get an iPhone, I just hope it doesn't cost too much.

I'd much rather wait for the 3G version though. The HDD size means nothing to me.

I hope they keep the data plans the same since they seem pretty fair.

Isn't the June release (if really June) suppose to be 3G?? I'm impatiently waiting!!! I'm already due for an upgrade.

kind of semi off-topic, but, has there been any news regarding a new version of the touch? i'm close to finishing up the trainn site and i'd like to time it so i get one a newer version.

i have not read engadget or gizmodo in weeks

-dan

[quote656969f9db="tucker1003"]Isn't the June release (if really June) suppose to be 3G??[/quote656969f9db]
Of course, as the article mentions.

If you're referring to TSJ's post, I think he was talking about waiting for the 3G iPhone rather than upgrading with what is available now.

Five bucks says the GPS on the iPhone will be locked like the 8310 for use towards only telenav.

Speaking of which, I just got full GPS (Garmin Mobile XT) for free onto my tilt. It's hella sweet.

I run full GPS on my 8125 (have used both TomTom 6 and iGuidance), using a little BT receiver. I'd be surprised if the GPS on the iPhone is locked, that's more a T-Mobile thing to lock out features -- AT&T doesn't usually do that, do they? They didn't on the Tilt despite lots of speculation they might.

Yeah, and most people were shocked it wasn't locked on the tilt.
It's locked on the blacjack II as well as the Curve 8310.

I would have a Tilt already were it not for the grave mistake (intentional or not) HTC made by not providing accelerated graphics drivers. The hardware is capable, but HTC neutered it with software rendering -- some people are saying that it redraws even slower than the older models. I run a lot of apps on mine, and would not tolerate paying that much, be locked into another contract, and have substandard graphics performance. HTC's response has essentially been "wait until the NEXT model" rather than fixing it in the Tilt with a new firmware upgrade, which should be pretty easy since the ATI GPU in it is common and drivers are readily available.

samz, what is your (honest) opinion of the Tilt's graphics performance? I've yet to play with one, but the reviews and pissed off users across all the forums speak volumes to me -- it's not an isolated few grumpy folks who are reporting it.

The iPhone interface, OTOH, is liquid smooth and just beautiful to work with. I've been a WM & HTC fan for a long time, but with the Tilt snafu and the improvements on the iPhone, I think I'm ready to jump ship.

aren't we suppose to hear on June 9th for the release!!???

[quote2c914f8a80="dmorris68"]I would have a Tilt already were it not for the grave mistake (intentional or not) HTC made by not providing accelerated graphics drivers. The hardware is capable, but HTC neutered it with software rendering -- some people are saying that it redraws even slower than the older models. I run a lot of apps on mine, and would not tolerate paying that much, be locked into another contract, and have substandard graphics performance. HTC's response has essentially been "wait until the NEXT model" rather than fixing it in the Tilt with a new firmware upgrade, which should be pretty easy since the ATI GPU in it is common and drivers are readily available.

samz, what is your (honest) opinion of the Tilt's graphics performance? I've yet to play with one, but the reviews and pissed off users across all the forums speak volumes to me -- it's not an isolated few grumpy folks who are reporting it.

The iPhone interface, OTOH, is liquid smooth and just beautiful to work with. I've been a WM & HTC fan for a long time, but with the Tilt snafu and the improvements on the iPhone, I think I'm ready to jump ship.[/quote2c914f8a80]
Hey, sorry I never saw this post.
Nonetheless, I feel the Tilt is not bad, but I think it could be better. Sometimes it lags, and when I pop out the keyboard, it takes time for it to rotate the screen.
There are other minor bugs that bother me, but I just deal with it...

[quotea6e7d0571c="tucker1003"]aren't we suppose to hear on June 9th for the release!!???[/quotea6e7d0571c]
Yes, that's the date I've read in several places.

[quotea6e7d0571c="samz465"]Hey, sorry I never saw this post.
Nonetheless, I feel the Tilt is not bad, but I think it could be better. Sometimes it lags, and when I pop out the keyboard, it takes time for it to rotate the screen.
There are other minor bugs that bother me, but I just deal with it...[/quotea6e7d0571c]

Yeah, the rotation lag and the camera lag are some of the biggest complaints. But basically anything that does much with screen redraw is prone to lag, due to the lack of hardware acceleration. It was pretty stupid design decision on HTC's part -- the Tilt was IMO the best iteration of the product line yet, and I was stoked to get one, until that major flaw was uncovered. Now it looks like I'll have one of these 3G iPhones.

Damn you Dmo...I expected you to be a diehard HTC fan.
I'm not going for an iPhone because I feel that windows mobile can handle more stuff, but do you feel that the SDK will improve this in the new iPhone?
The major things I use my Tilt for are
-Push email
-Opera Web Browsing (Full HTML browser)
-Texting

I don't think a virtual keyboard will ever be able to replace a physical keyboard and that is an extreme turn off for me.

However, and I also don't encourage this but, texting while driving is hard with a slide out keyboard, and was one thing I liked about my sisters blackberry when I was using it. I had a much easier time texting with that than my Tilt.

Things I love about my tilt
-Push email
-Awesome keyboard (except it requires both hands)
-MicroSD slot
-GPS
-Threaded text messaging
-Opera mobile
-easy to install new apps etc

Things I hate
-Screen lag as noted before
-Occasional freezing

Dmorris, have you ever looked into the HTC Touch Diamond running on Windows Mobile 6.1?
It seems to be very comparable to the iPhone and seems like a solid build.
Let me know what you think of it.

Hey, what can I say, I'm a sellout to better technology. ;)

I'm not attached to Microsoft OSes at all, it's just that up until the iPhone they had a lock on the smartphone market. I'd personally prefer an embedded Linux OS, but not many US smartphones are going that route. The iPhone comes closest with its OSX-based OS. Apple's virtual keyboard is the best in the business. Even with my 8125, I don't often slide out the keyboard -- except when typing a really long message, the on-screen keyboard is faster, and it still lisucksli compared to the iPhone's. Besides, I don't subscribe to a data plan on the 8125 because paying that much for sucky data services isn't something I'm interested in -- I pay-as-you-go for data and rarely use it. However the online experience with the iPhone is excellent, and you get unlimited data for $20! No-brainer for me, I'll be doing a lot more surfing and data stuff with an iPhone than I do now.

As far as performance and built-in features like web browsing goes, the iPhone (even the first gen) absolutely kills anything WM-based. There just is no comparison. Safari on the iPhone absolutely destroys browsing on any WM device, HTC or otherwise. Now with the Exchange support, it can do push e-mail too if that's your thing (it's not with me, I'm happy with pulling POP3/IMAP).

My biggest aversions to the 1st-gen iPhone was lack of 3rd party support for thick-client apps due to no SDK, lack of GPS, and (to a lesser degree) the cost of the iPhone itself. All of which are being addressed by the 2nd-gen release. The SDK has opened a lot of doors for 3rd party apps. As long as the GPS receiver isn't locked down to AT&T's TeleMaps stuff, that problem is solved. In fact rumor has it that TomTom is already working on an iPhone version (fake Digg photos notwithstanding), which if true would seem to indicate that the GPS wouldn't be locked -- otherwise, why bother since AT&T is still the exclusive iPhone distributer/provider? And now AT&T will subsidize the 3G version with a $200 off for a 2-year contract, which you had to sign for the old iPhone anyway.

My only holdout concern is lack a Java VM. If I can get a J2ME CDC Foundation/Personal Profile JVM on the iPhone, my life would be complete. ) No Mac needed for development (as is required with the native SDK), and then the 3rd party app market would liexplodeli, as well as allowing me to do my own development. I refuse to buy a Mac just so I can develop my own iPhone apps. Sun first announced an iPhone JVM when the SDK was announced, but then there was some backtracking due to some unreasonable restrictions Apple seemed to put in place around what Sun could do on the iPhone. I'm hoping those issues get worked out, as I'm confident that Apple will continue (as they have been) to slowly loosen up the iPhone in order to maintain its popularity and usefulness.

No, I have not seen the Touch Diamond, but I'm not all that interested in an iPhone-clone based on WM. The iPhone OS far superior, the only thing WM would have going for it is app support. However I'm expecting that iPhone app support will grow substantially over the year now that the SDK is in the hands of developers. And again, a functional JVM would open that door even wider.

today's the day. if anyone wants to follow along, gizmodo is running a live blog.

http//live.gizmodo.com/

it's cool because the page auto-updates.

-dan

[quoteca42720bf7="dmorris68"]Hey, what can I say, I'm a sellout to better technology. ;)

I'm not attached to Microsoft OSes at all, it's just that up until the iPhone they had a lock on the smartphone market. I'd personally prefer an embedded Linux OS, but not many US smartphones are going that route. The iPhone comes closest with its OSX-based OS. Apple's virtual keyboard is the best in the business. Even with my 8125, I don't often slide out the keyboard -- except when typing a really long message, the on-screen keyboard is faster, and it still lisucksli compared to the iPhone's. Besides, I don't subscribe to a data plan on the 8125 because paying that much for sucky data services isn't something I'm interested in -- I pay-as-you-go for data and rarely use it. However the online experience with the iPhone is excellent, and you get unlimited data for $20! No-brainer for me, I'll be doing a lot more surfing and data stuff with an iPhone than I do now.

As far as performance and built-in features like web browsing goes, the iPhone (even the first gen) absolutely kills anything WM-based. There just is no comparison. Safari on the iPhone absolutely destroys browsing on any WM device, HTC or otherwise. Now with the Exchange support, it can do push e-mail too if that's your thing (it's not with me, I'm happy with pulling POP3/IMAP).

My biggest aversions to the 1st-gen iPhone was lack of 3rd party support for thick-client apps due to no SDK, lack of GPS, and (to a lesser degree) the cost of the iPhone itself. All of which are being addressed by the 2nd-gen release. The SDK has opened a lot of doors for 3rd party apps. As long as the GPS receiver isn't locked down to AT&T's TeleMaps stuff, that problem is solved. In fact rumor has it that TomTom is already working on an iPhone version (fake Digg photos notwithstanding), which if true would seem to indicate that the GPS wouldn't be locked -- otherwise, why bother since AT&T is still the exclusive iPhone distributer/provider? And now AT&T will subsidize the 3G version with a $200 off for a 2-year contract, which you had to sign for the old iPhone anyway.

My only holdout concern is lack a Java VM. If I can get a J2ME CDC Foundation/Personal Profile JVM on the iPhone, my life would be complete. ) No Mac needed for development (as is required with the native SDK), and then the 3rd party app market would liexplodeli, as well as allowing me to do my own development. I refuse to buy a Mac just so I can develop my own iPhone apps. Sun first announced an iPhone JVM when the SDK was announced, but then there was some backtracking due to some unreasonable restrictions Apple seemed to put in place around what Sun could do on the iPhone. I'm hoping those issues get worked out, as I'm confident that Apple will continue (as they have been) to slowly loosen up the iPhone in order to maintain its popularity and usefulness.

No, I have not seen the Touch Diamond, but I'm not all that interested in an iPhone-clone based on WM. The iPhone OS far superior, the only thing WM would have going for it is app support. However I'm expecting that iPhone app support will grow substantially over the year now that the SDK is in the hands of developers. And again, a functional JVM would open that door even wider.[/quoteca42720bf7]
Have you ever used Opera 8.65 or the unreleased 9.5?
They're damn good compared to safari.
Personally I'm not a big fan of the on screen keyboard.

[quote7ae5cf9387="DRay9911"]today's the day. if anyone wants to follow along, gizmodo is running a live blog.

http//live.gizmodo.com/

it's cool because the page auto-updates.

-dan[/quote7ae5cf9387]
Awesome, it appears the GPS will be unlocked. Or at least linotli locked to AT&T's service.

[quote7ae5cf9387] iPhone Built-In GPS Official, with Live Tracking
The 3G iPhone's second most persistently rumored and desired feature (or not), GPS is built in for location service hotness, which Steve says "gonna explode." Location data comes from a combo of cell towers, Wi-Fi and GPS, with live tracking. Looks like Google Maps is still the default interface. Two unspokens What's it do to that otherwise nice battery life? And where's a carmount? I wonder if those GPS makers are in fact shitting themselves right now.[/quote7ae5cf9387]

Also, the $299 price for the 16GB model is awesome. I liwillli have one of these as soon as I can get my hands on one. Which may take a month or two due to both demand and my budget for the vacation we're taking in 3 weeks. Maybe I can play enough 25NL poker between now and then to pay for it. )

Damn it! Why can't they release it in Canada with Telus???

interesting cost analysis
[quoteafe9a83c19="http//www.eetimes.com/rss/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208403011&cid=RSSfeed_eetimes_newsRSS"]
Carey of Portelligent said several factors make the iPhone 3G potentially much cheaper to build than the original iPhone.

"I'd suspect the collective volume, learning and engineering changes to the display would mean that the whole touch screen assembly might be about half the $60 or so we estimated for Gen1 a year ago," Carey said. "In addition, the 8 Gbytes of MLC NAND is today around $20 compared to the $50 that might have been the case in June 2007," he added. Carey estimated Apple may have shaved another $25 off the bill of materials costs based on changes he observed in a teardown of the iPod Touch.

Those changes are only slightly offset by new costs for the iPhone 3G. Carey said the additional cost of an HSDPA chip set are only about $15 plus another $5 for the GPS chip. He also noted that the $100 price increase for a model with 16 Gbytes flash adds to the profit margin because the additional memory chips probably cost Apple only about $20.

Netting out all the changes Apple may have had a gross profit based solely on cost of hardware for the original iPhone of $229 and profits of just $99 for the iPhone 3G. "It's always important to point out that hardware BOM costs do not capture many other important facets of product cost such as development costs, software costs, licenses and marketing," he said.
[/quoteafe9a83c19]

I spoke to my brother and his ATT rep.
The iPhone data plan will now be $30 for regular users and $45 for business users who want the Enterprise plan.
So much for the $15 data and $5 text plan that exists now.

Honestly it doesn't really affect me if I choose to get the new iPhone (once I see what its future capabilities will be) because my dealer plan includes unlimited data and text, but for regular users it sucks. At the same time, the cost of the phone will be subsidized like other regular phones are, but because of the data plan, you'll be paying an extra $40 in the long run with the new iPhone when compared to the old iPhone.

[quoteab98afb737="samz465"]I spoke to my brother and his ATT rep.
The iPhone data plan will now be $30 for regular users and $45 for business users who want the Enterprise plan.
So much for the $15 data and $5 text plan that exists now.

Honestly it doesn't really affect me if I choose to get the new iPhone (once I see what its future capabilities will be) because my dealer plan includes unlimited data and text, but for regular users it sucks. At the same time, the cost of the phone will be subsidized like other regular phones are, but because of the data plan, you'll be paying an extra $40 in the long run with the new iPhone when compared to the old iPhone.[/quoteab98afb737]
How $40 more? I see $10 more. The old iPhone unlimited data plan was a $20 add-on to your current voice plan. So you say it's now $30 (first I've heard of it, but doesn't surprise me at all). $30-$20=$10. P Combine that with the $200 subsidy and it would take 20 months to break even compared to the old iPhone, and it just so happens at 20 months of a 2-year contract you are eligible for upgrade. ;)

[bab98afb737]EDIT[/bab98afb737] Oh, I'm assuming your $40 quote was over the life of the contract, which I acknowledged, but you failed to take into account the upgrade eligibility at 20 months. ;)

While $30 for unlimited data closes the gap, it's still (a) cheaper than AT&T's regular unlimited data plans, which run around $40, and (b) the data experience on the iPhone is much better than on a WM phone IMO. So it's still a bargain comparatively speaking.

Yeah I'm gonna pick one up too when it comes out. The price and the new features are difficult to resist.

I hope they allow online ordering for existing customer, but I doubt it.

Gotta wait until my contract w/ T-Mobile expires in October. But by then, Android should be available, so I can make a fully-informed decision.

This is looking like a pretty sweet deal though.

So if you currently have a 20 dollar data plan are you going to have start paying more, or is it locked in?

If I'm not Mistaking they are saying July 11th??!!!! for the iphone 2!

[quote7cd347ef69="TryinToGetPaid"]So if you currently have a 20 dollar data plan are you going to have start paying more, or is it locked in?[/quote7cd347ef69]

From what I've read you're "locked in".

[quote935003e8d4="tucker1003"]If I'm not Mistaking they are saying July 11th??!!!! for the iphone 2![/quote935003e8d4]
It's June 11th (tomorrow) for the iPhone 3G, which is the 2nd-gen iPhone. I'm seriously doubting another major model rollout in another 30 days.

I need to send my phone in asap....

I think the release was originally June 11th, but now they're saying July 11th aren't they? That's what I saw on Engadget yesterday.

$199 is tempting, what's the cheapest voice plan for the 2 year contract?

July 11th? Seriously? Did that just change or have I been misreading all this time? LOL

[ba617cc6e5f]EDIT[/ba617cc6e5f] Yep, seems to be July 11th from the NetworkWorld article I just read. Either they changed it or I'm losing my mind. Even both are entirely possible...

That works better for me anyway, because that will be post-vacation and I'll be in a better position to get one (assuming I can find one).

[quotee4a4645e4b="hehehhehe"]I think the release was originally June 11th, but now they're saying July 11th aren't they? That's what I saw on Engadget yesterday.

$199 is tempting, what's the cheapest voice plan for the 2 year contract?[/quotee4a4645e4b]

I have the Nation 550 Family Talk plan (which is no longer available) at a cost of $59.99 + $9.99 for each additional line (I have two additional lines).

A regular bill for me is at least $89, but sometimes goes a little over with texting etc. So for me with the new iPhone, my bill should be roughly $119.

I'm not sure about individual plans or shared plans though, but the new data plan will be at least $30 (plus whatever plan rate you choose).

[quotee4a4645e4b="dmorris68"]July 11th? Seriously? Did that just change or have I been misreading all this time? LOL

[be4a4645e4b]EDIT[/be4a4645e4b] Yep, seems to be July 11th from the NetworkWorld article I just read. Either they changed it or I'm losing my mind. Even both are entirely possible...

That works better for me anyway, because that will be post-vacation and I'll be in a better position to get one (assuming I can find one).[/quotee4a4645e4b]

I think you're losing it. ;)

Everywhere that I read from yesterday afternoon to yesterday night said July 11th.

This is awfully tempting. Though I'm not eligible for an upgrade for another 18 months -/

Will I be able to get the new iPhone and just extend for 2 years? Or do I need to wait until I'm eligible for an upgrade?

[quote4f93be034a="CollidgeGraduit"]This is awfully tempting. Though I'm not eligible for an upgrade for another 18 months -/

Will I be able to get the new iPhone and just extend for 2 years? Or do I need to wait until I'm eligible for an upgrade?[/quote4f93be034a]
Unless you can seriously sweet talk your AT&T rep, they don't allow subsidized upgrades until 20 months into a 2-year contract (or 10 month into a 1-year). Now you can probably pay full price and then extend -- at least you can for any other phone, don't know why the iPhone would be any different. But that kinda takes much of the appeal away, at least for me. Dropping $400-$500 on a phone isn't normally my thing, but now that I think about it I did pay $350 for my 8125 when it first came out (and that was the subsidized price). Still, I want the 16GB model if I'm going to have one, and don't want to pay full price. Glad I've held on to my 8125 for as long as I have, I had to resist the urge to upgrade when the 8925 came out!

[quotef3fb5afc14="dmorris68"][quotef3fb5afc14="CollidgeGraduit"]This is awfully tempting. Though I'm not eligible for an upgrade for another 18 months -/

Will I be able to get the new iPhone and just extend for 2 years? Or do I need to wait until I'm eligible for an upgrade?[/quotef3fb5afc14]
Unless you can seriously sweet talk your AT&T rep, they don't allow subsidized upgrades until 20 months into a 2-year contract (or 10 month into a 1-year). Now you can probably pay full price and then extend -- at least you can for any other phone, don't know why the iPhone would be any different. But that kinda takes much of the appeal away, at least for me. Dropping $400-$500 on a phone isn't normally my thing, but now that I think about it I did pay $350 for my 8125 when it first came out (and that was the subsidized price). Still, I want the 16GB model if I'm going to have one, and don't want to pay full price. Glad I've held on to my 8125 for as long as I have, I had to resist the urge to upgrade when the 8925 came out![/quotef3fb5afc14]

I remember with the original launch, you could just extend your contract. But then again, this model is a lot more subsidized, so you may be right (

In that case, I will just hold off for another 18 months I guess.

[quote67b5d180bb="CollidgeGraduit"]I remember with the original launch, you could just extend your contract. But then again, this model is a lot more subsidized, so you may be right ([/quote67b5d180bb]
The original iPhone wasn't subsidized at all -- you paid the same MSRP whether you bought it from AT&T or from the Apple store. So AT&T never stood to lose any money on the phone then. The new $200 subsidy puts them more in line with with every other phone they sell though, selling it at a loss, so I expect to see the subsidy denied if you're not eligible for upgrade.

Does your wife have a phone that is any closer to upgrade eligibility? We've done that in the past, upgrading one of the other phones on our family plan but using it to upgrade another phone that wasn't eligible yet. Don't know why that wouldn't work with the iPhone.

[quotee66165a5cf="dmorris68"][quotee66165a5cf="CollidgeGraduit"]I remember with the original launch, you could just extend your contract. But then again, this model is a lot more subsidized, so you may be right ([/quotee66165a5cf]
The original iPhone wasn't subsidized at all -- you paid the same MSRP whether you bought it from AT&T or from the Apple store. So AT&T never stood to lose any money on the phone then. The new $200 subsidy puts them more in line with with every other phone they sell though, selling it at a loss, so I expect to see the subsidy denied if you're not eligible for upgrade.

Does your wife have a phone that is any closer to upgrade eligibility? We've done that in the past, upgrading one of the other phones on our family plan but using it to upgrade another phone that wasn't eligible yet. Don't know why that wouldn't work with the iPhone.[/quotee66165a5cf]

Nope, we've both upgraded very recently. What a bummer. Still tempting to get this, even at retail price.. but now it will require some deliberating on my part.

[quote8b347c7a04="dmorris68"][quote8b347c7a04="samz465"]I spoke to my brother and his ATT rep.
The iPhone data plan will now be $30 for regular users and $45 for business users who want the Enterprise plan.
So much for the $15 data and $5 text plan that exists now.

Honestly it doesn't really affect me if I choose to get the new iPhone (once I see what its future capabilities will be) because my dealer plan includes unlimited data and text, but for regular users it sucks. At the same time, the cost of the phone will be subsidized like other regular phones are, but because of the data plan, you'll be paying an extra $40 in the long run with the new iPhone when compared to the old iPhone.[/quote8b347c7a04]
How $40 more? I see $10 more. The old iPhone unlimited data plan was a $20 add-on to your current voice plan. So you say it's now $30 (first I've heard of it, but doesn't surprise me at all). $30-$20=$10. P Combine that with the $200 subsidy and it would take 20 months to break even compared to the old iPhone, and it just so happens at 20 months of a 2-year contract you are eligible for upgrade. ;)

[b8b347c7a04]EDIT[/b8b347c7a04] Oh, I'm assuming your $40 quote was over the life of the contract, which I acknowledged, but you failed to take into account the upgrade eligibility at 20 months. ;)

While $30 for unlimited data closes the gap, it's still (a) cheaper than AT&T's regular unlimited data plans, which run around $40, and (b) the data experience on the iPhone is much better than on a WM phone IMO. So it's still a bargain comparatively speaking.[/quote8b347c7a04]
Well Dmo...heres something you don't know =P.
You're actually eligible for an upgrade after 12 months if you're plan is 99.99 or above. Also, 79.99 and above gets your upgrade fee waived.

Also
The $30 is not cheaper than their other unlimited data plans, it's the same price. Pda Connect feature is $30 and so is the Blackberry connect feature.
As far as the internet being better, I guess you could argue that since the screen is bigger, however I've been very happy with Opera.

And even if you 'upgrade' after 20 months, you're still paying $10 more each month after the contract extension when compared to the old iPhone, so yes you'd still be paying $40 more than the old one.

[quote8b347c7a04="theysayjump"][quote8b347c7a04="hehehhehe"]I think the release was originally June 11th, but now they're saying July 11th aren't they? That's what I saw on Engadget yesterday.

$199 is tempting, what's the cheapest voice plan for the 2 year contract?[/quote8b347c7a04]

I have the Nation 550 Family Talk plan (which is no longer available) at a cost of $59.99 + $9.99 for each additional line (I have two additional lines).

A regular bill for me is at least $89, but sometimes goes a little over with texting etc. So for me with the new iPhone, my bill should be roughly $119.

I'm not sure about individual plans or shared plans though, but the new data plan will be at least $30 (plus whatever plan rate you choose).

[quote8b347c7a04="dmorris68"]July 11th? Seriously? Did that just change or have I been misreading all this time? LOL

[b8b347c7a04]EDIT[/b8b347c7a04] Yep, seems to be July 11th from the NetworkWorld article I just read. Either they changed it or I'm losing my mind. Even both are entirely possible...

That works better for me anyway, because that will be post-vacation and I'll be in a better position to get one (assuming I can find one).[/quote8b347c7a04]

I think you're losing it. ;)

Everywhere that I read from yesterday afternoon to yesterday night said July 11th.[/quote8b347c7a04]
The cheapest plan available for individual users is 39.99 + whatever features you add. Why do you want to go on an individual plan?

[quote8b347c7a04="CollidgeGraduit"]This is awfully tempting. Though I'm not eligible for an upgrade for another 18 months -/

Will I be able to get the new iPhone and just extend for 2 years? Or do I need to wait until I'm eligible for an upgrade?[/quote8b347c7a04]
You would have to wait till you're eligible, otherwise it would be the regular outright price.

[quote413ea14d36="samz465"]Also
The $30 is not cheaper than their other unlimited data plans, it's the same price. Pda Connect feature is $30 and so is the Blackberry connect feature.[/quote413ea14d36]

Except the iPhone plan comes with unlimited messaging.

[quote413ea14d36="samz465"]
You would have to wait till you're eligible, otherwise it would be the regular outright price.[/quote413ea14d36]

Is there an echo in here? P

[quote8d52cd7835="samz465"]Well Dmo...heres something you don't know =P.
You're actually eligible for an upgrade after 12 months if you're plan is 99.99 or above. Also, 79.99 and above gets your upgrade fee waived.[/quote8d52cd7835]
Does that $99.99 figure include data, or is that just for the base voice plan? I don't have a $99.99 voice plan and I don't know many people personally who do. In fact their top-of-the-line unlimited voice plan is $99.99. Maybe some business users, folks who live (or make a living) on their phones, or those who don't have a landline, would spring for that. Not me. I have a $59.99 plan + 2 extra family lines, and with taxes and all it comes to right around $100/month, give or take a few bucks. I'd never see myself paying more for the base plan -- I don't use 1/10 of the minutes I have now, and keep around 6K minutes in my rollover bank at all times. And those minutes are shared between all 3 phones. With an unlimited data plan, I'm certain I'd be spending for more "data" time on my phone than I would "voice" time.

[quote8d52cd7835="samz465"]Also
The $30 is not cheaper than their other unlimited data plans, it's the same price. Pda Connect feature is $30 and so is the Blackberry connect feature.[/quote8d52cd7835]
Nope, the basic PDA Personal data plan is $30 but includes no text messaging. 200 msgs costs an extra $10. Unlimited messaging costs an extra $25, making it a total of $55 for a plan equivalent to the iPhone's $30 plan. Even with the discounts I get through my employer, the unlimited messaging data plan would still cost me $44/month.

[quote8d52cd7835="samz465"]As far as the internet being better, I guess you could argue that since the screen is bigger, however I've been very happy with Opera.[/quote8d52cd7835]
It's not only due to the (beautiful) screen, it's the entire user experience. I've never liked Opera as a browser, whether on desktop or mobile. I probably haven't tried the latest version you're talking about though. But the bottom line is, even if you could argue that a comparable browser is available for WM, the overall OS experience and performance is not at all comparable IMO. I've worked with Microsoft Mobile OSes going to back to the early CE and PocketPC days, and for a phone OS I thought WM5 was pretty decent, WM6 made some minor improvements, but they still pale to the iPhone's mini-OSX. My biggest draw to WM was app availability, but that's not going to be a real issue any longer, with the SDK release.

[quote8d52cd7835="samz465"]And even if you 'upgrade' after 20 months, you're still paying $10 more each month after the contract extension when compared to the old iPhone, so yes you'd still be paying $40 more than the old one.[/quote8d52cd7835]
Unless something has changed recently, upgrade-eligible contracts aren't extended, at least not in my past experience. When you're eligible for upgrade, the old contract is canceled and the new contract period starts immediately. So if in 20 months from that point you go with something other than an iPhone -- say, some awesome new Linux phone (hey, I can dream) -- then you won't be continuing the iPhone data plan and won't pay that last 4 months. Of course I doubt I would do that, unless something much better than another version of iPhone comes out by then. The $40 over a 24-month period is a non-issue, really -- less than $2/month. By then data plans will probably be even cheaper, or at least better and worth more.

[quote78f8ceac75="dmorris68"][quote78f8ceac75="samz465"]Well Dmo...heres something you don't know =P.
You're actually eligible for an upgrade after 12 months if you're plan is 99.99 or above. Also, 79.99 and above gets your upgrade fee waived.[/quote78f8ceac75]
Does that $99.99 figure include data, or is that just for the base voice plan? I don't have a $99.99 voice plan and I don't know many people personally who do. In fact their top-of-the-line unlimited voice plan is $99.99. Maybe some business users, folks who live (or make a living) on their phones, or those who don't have a landline, would spring for that. Not me. I have a $59.99 plan + 2 extra family lines, and with taxes and all it comes to right around $100/month, give or take a few bucks. I'd never see myself paying more for the base plan -- I don't use 1/10 of the minutes I have now, and keep around 6K minutes in my rollover bank at all times. And those minutes are shared between all 3 phones. With an unlimited data plan, I'm certain I'd be spending for more "data" time on my phone than I would "voice" time.

[quote78f8ceac75="samz465"]Also
The $30 is not cheaper than their other unlimited data plans, it's the same price. Pda Connect feature is $30 and so is the Blackberry connect feature.[/quote78f8ceac75]
Nope, the basic PDA Personal data plan is $30 but includes no text messaging. 200 msgs costs an extra $10. Unlimited messaging costs an extra $25, making it a total of $55 for a plan equivalent to the iPhone's $30 plan. Even with the discounts I get through my employer, the unlimited messaging data plan would still cost me $44/month.

[quote78f8ceac75="samz465"]As far as the internet being better, I guess you could argue that since the screen is bigger, however I've been very happy with Opera.[/quote78f8ceac75]
It's not only due to the (beautiful) screen, it's the entire user experience. I've never liked Opera as a browser, whether on desktop or mobile. I probably haven't tried the latest version you're talking about though. But the bottom line is, even if you could argue that a comparable browser is available for WM, the overall OS experience and performance is not at all comparable IMO. I've worked with Microsoft Mobile OSes going to back to the early CE and PocketPC days, and for a phone OS I thought WM5 was pretty decent, WM6 made some minor improvements, but they still pale to the iPhone's mini-OSX. My biggest draw to WM was app availability, but that's not going to be a real issue any longer, with the SDK release.

[quote78f8ceac75="samz465"]And even if you 'upgrade' after 20 months, you're still paying $10 more each month after the contract extension when compared to the old iPhone, so yes you'd still be paying $40 more than the old one.[/quote78f8ceac75]
Unless something has changed recently, upgrade-eligible contracts aren't extended, at least not in my past experience. When you're eligible for upgrade, the old contract is canceled and the new contract period starts immediately. So if in 20 months from that point you go with something other than an iPhone -- say, some awesome new Linux phone (hey, I can dream) -- then you won't be continuing the iPhone data plan and won't pay that last 4 months. Of course I doubt I would do that, unless something much better than another version of iPhone comes out by then. The $40 over a 24-month period is a non-issue, really -- less than $2/month. By then data plans will probably be even cheaper, or at least better and worth more.[/quote78f8ceac75]

The $99 figure is for an individual line, and between you and me (and whoever else sees this thread), you can change your plan to a $99 plan at the end of the month, upgrade, then at the beginning of the next month, drop it back down. On our end it's basically called "forcing an upgrade".

Also, the Message Starter 200 package is $5. The $10 package you refer to is "Media Basic" which comes with 400 messages and 1Mb of internet (does nothing if you have an unlimited data plan). The next step up is Messaging 1500 for $15, and then above that is messaging unlimited for individuals which is $20, and unlimited for families is $30.

[b78f8ceac75]And for reference, the iPhone 3g plan no longer includes text messaging like it does now.[/b78f8ceac75]
http//gigaom.com/2008/06/09/att-mobility-ceo-new-3g-iphone-game-changer/

What you say in your last paragraph is true, but that's only if you do in fact change to a non data phone. I was basically comparing the current iPhone to the new iPhone over a two year contract. Nonetheless it doesn't really matter since it's $40 over the course of 2 years (plus whatever text messaging package you get) so it's slightly nominal.

[quote78f8ceac75="CollidgeGraduit"][quote78f8ceac75="samz465"]Also
The $30 is not cheaper than their other unlimited data plans, it's the same price. Pda Connect feature is $30 and so is the Blackberry connect feature.[/quote78f8ceac75]Except the iPhone plan comes with unlimited messaging.[/quote78f8ceac75]

Proven wrong as shown above.

-Let the record show I proved Dmorris wrong P. I wasn't lying when I said I've been in the business for over 5 years.

[quote91bd5ffeee="samz465"]Also, the Message Starter 200 package is $5. The $10 package you refer to is "Media Basic" which comes with 400 messages and 1Mb of internet (does nothing if you have an unlimited data plan). The next step up is Messaging 1500 for $15, and then above that is messaging unlimited for individuals which is $20, and unlimited for families is $30.[/quote91bd5ffeee]
Those are voice add-ons prices, are they not? Are they applicable to data plans? Because when you look up the data plans that come with or without messaging, they're priced different and make no mention of the Media plans. When I quoted those above, I was looking at a different page than I'm looking at now -- it's like my Premier account pages have changed or the prices have dropped since yesterday. Anyway, what I'm currently seeing as I type this is as follows (I've edited out our Premier discount prices because I don't know if that's supposed to be public knowledge, the prices I quote below are full retail)

[quote91bd5ffeee]PDA Personal Add-On
$30.00

PDA Personal 200 Messaging Add-On
$35.00

PDA Personal Unlimited Messaging Add-On
$50.00[/quote91bd5ffeee]

So if the 3G iPhone plans drops SMS, then yes the $30 data plan is now equivalent. $5 gets you 200 msgs (which I already have for free on the voice plan), and $20 gets you unlimited. There is no $10 Media plan for 400 messages shown on the data side, so I assume it's a voice add-on. Does AT&T let people substitute the cheaper voice add-on plans for the data plans (well, now they don't look any cheaper really, but they were last I looked).

In fact the iPhone plan would presumably cost me more now since I get a discount off the retail plans but not the Apple plans (unless that's changed too). But the few bucks difference in price can't make up for the better online experience that the iPhone provides, so I'm still sold on the iPhone being the most attractive option for me.

[quote91bd5ffeee="samz465"]And for reference, the iPhone 3g plan no longer includes text messaging like it does now.
http//gigaom.com/2008/06/09/att-mobility-ceo-new-3g-iphone-game-changer/[/quote91bd5ffeee]
Disappointing. But then again I already have a 200 msg/month plan that is free, it's a promotion I signed up for a long time ago, and I msg probably no more than 10 times a month. So even if they drop my free 200 msg plan (which shouldn't happen unless I change my voice plan) then I'd still only be paying a dollar or less per month for the msgs I do use. My draw to the data plan comes from the internet usage, not from messaging. And again, even if the cost was dead even with the non-iPhone data plans, there isn't another phone I'd rather be surfing from.

[quote91bd5ffeee="samz465"]-Let the record show I proved Dmorris wrong. I wasn't lying when I said I've been in the business for over 5 years.[/quote91bd5ffeee]
I don't think anybody doubted your being in the business. And I wasn't so much arguing with you than I was pointing out the prices I had seen and what I was aware of so far. There wasn't really a "right" or "wrong" situation, but on that note, I'll say that I've been proven wrong more times than I can count -- this certainly wouldn't be the first. ;)

Oh It's cool Dmo. I respect you. I guess it was my five seconds of glory when I proved you wrong (and believe it or not it doesn't happen as often as you think that you're proven wrong).

But back onto the subject at hand...

I forgot to mention that people lose their Corporate based (b2b) discounts. At least they do when they purchase the current iPhone, so I'm going to assume it happens with this one also.

The plans I mentioned depend on the phone. Technically I could add media basic to a data device,
And in regard to your other question, I don't know exactly what you're asking.

I was actually thinking of buying a new phone, maybe the iPhone, since my two year contract has long since expired, but then I realized that I would rarely use it for email/web browsing. In fact, the only thing I use my phone is quick one-minute calls. I can't imagine when people actually browse the internet on their phone. As a student, the only time when I do not have access to a computer is during class. Just my $.02.

I'm on the road a lot, so having one touch access to all my email accounts is something I [b56ca97cc19]need[/b56ca97cc19].

http//gizmodo.com/5016398/the-iphone-3g-faq

[b9073c1019b]What's the price for the iPhone for existing AT&T customers who may or may not be eligible for an upgrade?[/b9073c1019b]
The same as any other customer, which is $199 for the 8GB and $299 for the 16GB. It won't follow the standard upgrade cycle that AT&T has for other phones.

Why would anyone upgrade their contract then? They should just upgrade their phone on ATT from a store, then go to apple a week later and buy an iPhone so they don't waste their contract renewal.

lishrugli No idea.

I probably won't be buying one, because I don't have a great use for a data phone, but interesting nonetheless.

[quote0496ee242a="CollidgeGraduit"]lishrugli No idea.

I probably won't be buying one, because I don't have a great use for a data phone, but interesting nonetheless.[/quote0496ee242a]
Although its online features are one of the flagship features of the iPhone, I don't think the data plan is required -- it will still work as a phone/PDA/media player/application platform, and it supports WiFi for free data access.

Unless that has changed too?

[quote24dabb81a3="dmorris68"][quote24dabb81a3="CollidgeGraduit"]lishrugli No idea.

I probably won't be buying one, because I don't have a great use for a data phone, but interesting nonetheless.[/quote24dabb81a3]
Although its online features are one of the flagship features of the iPhone, I don't think the data plan is required -- it will still work as a phone/PDA/media player/application platform, and it supports WiFi for free data access.

Unless that has changed too?[/quote24dabb81a3]

Yeah, I think you may be right. But I wouldn't really have that big of a use for wifi-only data access on a phone. If I did, I would probably be more likely to get an eee PC and figure out how to keep that with me most of the time.

I do like my Samsung Blackjack a lot, so maybe I'll just get a data plan for that.

Being Impatient maybe to my advantage! I went to upgrade my phone to a PDA/Smartphone yesterday, although I couldn't complete because I wasn't authorized by my account holder (they told me that they had to be there to authorize - not true). Anyways, I was tossed between Blackjack II or Tilt $199 or $399 + $100 mail in on either one, so $99 and $299. Well we should be 30 days or less from Iphone release, so I'm within exchange period. I also get a free Samsung A737 w/ PDA purchase. Well with At&T's quick rebate turn around I should have that rebate processed before the exchange, the sales man told me I don't need the box in perfect condition to exchange (aka upc missing).
IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY IPHONE SHOULD BE EVEN EXCHANGE!

ANY INPUTS ON SAMSUNG BLACKJACK II, ACCESS??

Or TILT?? Why not try one of them before the Iphone!!!?

I can all but assure you that returning a product on which you've received a rebate is not going to work.

If I am not mistake, you would have to refund the rebate.

[quotee885934a87="tucker1003"]Or TILT?? Why not try one of them before the Iphone!!!?[/quotee885934a87]
Did you not read my first post in this very thread? Many of us are well aware of the 8925/Tilt, it has been discussed it at length here and in other threads.

I'm actually glad the Tilt turned out to be a disappointment, because I'd much rather have a 3G iPhone than another Windows Mobile device anyway. The only reason I didn't jump on the first iPhone was due to lack of critical features that are now present on the new model (GPS, SDK, etc.).

The 3G iPhone definitely looks really tasty. I just can't justify leaving Sprint's SERO plan ($30/mo. for unlimited everything) for AT&T.

Well I may still get one of the smartphones right now.
Deal is buy PDA get Samsung A737 for free via mail in rebate.

Sorry about missing the Tilt on the thread, I think it is too pricey anyways.

w/ or w/o rebate I can still exchange my phone within 30 days, so if I have to pay a difference I can live, after all I don't have to give up the free spare phone (which my fiancee needs a new phone).

LG Vu??????

[quoteefa9bf461c="dmorris68"][quoteefa9bf461c="tucker1003"]Or TILT?? Why not try one of them before the Iphone!!!?[/quoteefa9bf461c]
Did you not read my first post in this very thread? Many of us are well aware of the 8925/Tilt, it has been discussed it at length here and in other threads.

I'm actually glad the Tilt turned out to be a disappointment, because I'd much rather have a 3G iPhone than another Windows Mobile device anyway. The only reason I didn't jump on the first iPhone was due to lack of critical features that are now present on the new model (GPS, SDK, etc.).[/quoteefa9bf461c]
Dude, I'm telling you, the Tilt isn't as bad as you think...
What don't you like about it? I don't get it...

I refuse to pay that kind of money and lock into another 2 years, for a phone that already is notorious for poor video performance. Combined with HTC's attitude about the whole thing when they could easily fix it, I've had enough of them. It may not be an issue for you, but I'm a performance freak, and the forums are overflowing with complaints about how lousy the Tilt is. That's enough to steer me away from it. HTC normally makes great stuff, but this time they dropped the ball and I'll express my displeasure by going elsewhere.

Also, WM is absolute crap for a media player. I want to be able to leave my big iPod at home and still have my favorite music & videos with me. Plus, again, internet access on WM cannot compare to that of the iPhone. It's a completely different animal, in a completely different zoo.

Like I said...Try out opera 9.5. You'd be surprised how good it is.

[quote0f9c517f28="samz465"]Like I said...Try out opera 9.5. You'd be surprised how good it is.[/quote0f9c517f28]
You're right, looking up the details and demo video, I am surprised -- it looks very nice, and seems to close the web surfing gap with iPhone's Safari. However
[list0f9c517f28][li0f9c517f28]It isn't available to the public yet, at least not without buying a specific device that includes it (from what I understand)
[li0f9c517f28]It's not free, so there's that extra, albeit nominal, charge
[li0f9c517f28]Tilt still has hardware issues with video performance that I can't get past
[li0f9c517f28]WM still sucks as a media player. I love my iPod, and also iTunes (although Amazon's non-DRM MP3 downloads are slowly weaning me off of iTunes for music purchases)
[li0f9c517f28]The overall user interface experience is still much better on iPhone than on WM devices.[/listu0f9c517f28]
EDIT I also noticed in the ZDNet demo video that the reviewer was experiencing freezes and failure to respond to double-taps. I know that was a preview, but Opera has always been a bit flaky in the reliability department which concerns me. Say what you will about Apple, their software is typically rock solid.

There are, however, two caveats that might make me rethink my position on iPhone and stick with WM, however begrudgingly

1. [li0f9c517f28]There are reports that, although TomTom already has turn-by-turn nav software for the iPhone near completion, there's a clause in Apple's SDK license that says real-time direction cannot be deployed to iPhone. This alone might be a deal killer for me, we just have to wait and see how it plays out.
   [li0f9c517f28]Java VM on iPhone is still up in the air. Sun announced almost immediately following the SDK release that they would release an iPhone JVM, however they then retracting saying Apple had a problem with it. Probably because Apple can currently limit iPhone development to Mac users (which means Apple-only hardware).[/listo0f9c517f28]
   I expect to see Apple loosen up a bit on those restrictions, as they have on other restrictions since the first iPhone release. However if they're going to drag their feet for another 1-2 years until the next model, I'll have probably moved on to another WM device, unless Nokia releases something like the N95 but running Linux. Nokia has made huge investments in the Linux market, including the acquisition of TrollTech and the release of the 770 and 800-series Linux tablets, so I expect to see iPhone-like devices running Linux pretty soon.
   
   Trouble is, my 8125 is old and creaky and I'm itching to upgrade soon. I'll be stuck for most of 2 years with whatever I choose, so I'm being overly cautious. Right now I think I'd be most satisfied with the iPhone, but that could change over the next month which is when I'll expect to be upgrading.

[quoteb3a55553a3="CollidgeGraduit"]http//gizmodo.com/5016398/the-iphone-3g-faq

[bb3a55553a3]What's the price for the iPhone for existing AT&T customers who may or may not be eligible for an upgrade?[/bb3a55553a3]
The same as any other customer, which is $199 for the 8GB and $299 for the 16GB. It won't follow the standard upgrade cycle that AT&T has for other phones.[/quoteb3a55553a3]

Can anyone verify this? If so, I am planning on getting it. I have the 8GB iPhone right now and am excited for the upgrade. Should I put my current one on eBay before it becomes overly over saturated or if I bring it in can I get a trade in discount? It may be a stupid question but just thought I'd ask. For once my mom (AT&T worker) doesn't know shit about the situation.

Thanks in advanced!

[quote68158b832d="dmorris68"][quote68158b832d="samz465"]Like I said...Try out opera 9.5. You'd be surprised how good it is.[/quote68158b832d]
You're right, looking up the details and demo video, I am surprised -- it looks very nice, and seems to close the web surfing gap with iPhone's Safari. However
[list68158b832d][li68158b832d]It isn't available to the public yet, at least not without buying a specific device that includes it (from what I understand)
[li68158b832d]It's not free, so there's that extra, albeit nominal, charge
[li68158b832d]Tilt still has hardware issues with video performance that I can't get past
[li68158b832d]WM still sucks as a media player. I love my iPod, and also iTunes (although Amazon's non-DRM MP3 downloads are slowly weaning me off of iTunes for music purchases)
[li68158b832d]The overall user interface experience is still much better on iPhone than on WM devices.[/listu68158b832d]
EDIT I also noticed in the ZDNet demo video that the reviewer was experiencing freezes and failure to respond to double-taps. I know that was a preview, but Opera has always been a bit flaky in the reliability department which concerns me. Say what you will about Apple, their software is typically rock solid.

There are, however, two caveats that might make me rethink my position on iPhone and stick with WM, however begrudgingly

1. [li68158b832d]There are reports that, although TomTom already has turn-by-turn nav software for the iPhone near completion, there's a clause in Apple's SDK license that says real-time direction cannot be deployed to iPhone. This alone might be a deal killer for me, we just have to wait and see how it plays out.
   [li68158b832d]Java VM on iPhone is still up in the air. Sun announced almost immediately following the SDK release that they would release an iPhone JVM, however they then retracting saying Apple had a problem with it. Probably because Apple can currently limit iPhone development to Mac users (which means Apple-only hardware).[/listo68158b832d]
   I expect to see Apple loosen up a bit on those restrictions, as they have on other restrictions since the first iPhone release. However if they're going to drag their feet for another 1-2 years until the next model, I'll have probably moved on to another WM device, unless Nokia releases something like the N95 but running Linux. Nokia has made huge investments in the Linux market, including the acquisition of TrollTech and the release of the 770 and 800-series Linux tablets, so I expect to see iPhone-like devices running Linux pretty soon.
   
   Trouble is, my 8125 is old and creaky and I'm itching to upgrade soon. I'll be stuck for most of 2 years with whatever I choose, so I'm being overly cautious. Right now I think I'd be most satisfied with the iPhone, but that could change over the next month which is when I'll expect to be upgrading.[/quote68158b832d]
   Have you seen the touch pro?
   Should be coming out soon...

So I saw the 3g iphone plans were released today and I have one question. The Family Talk plans includes 2 lines in the standard price, but does the second line get unlimited data if its for a treo and not another iphone?

On any plan you have to pay money for data separately. Each phone has its own monthly fee for data. So, if you have two iphones or 1 blackberry and 1 iphone you need to pay for data for each of the phones.

[quotebc77c1f10e="Powerbook"]On any plan you have to pay money for data separately. Each phone has its own monthly fee for data. So, if you have two iphones or 1 blackberry and 1 iphone you need to pay for data for each of the phones.[/quotebc77c1f10e]

I believe you are mistaken about the separate fee for data. According to this, http//www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp[]http//www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp at the very least the iphone plans come with the data included, not with an extra fee. It's the second line I'm unsure of.

[quote615c13569b="mcal44"][quote615c13569b="Powerbook"]On any plan you have to pay money for data separately. Each phone has its own monthly fee for data. So, if you have two iphones or 1 blackberry and 1 iphone you need to pay for data for each of the phones.[/quote615c13569b]

I believe you are mistaken about the separate fee for data. According to this, http//www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp[]http//www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp at the very least the iphone plans come with the data included, not with an extra fee. It's the second line I'm unsure of.[/quote615c13569b]
What he means is that there is no "unlimited family data" plan similar to how there is an unlimited family text messaging plan.
Each line pays for its own unlimited data plan at $30 for an iPhone.

So I haven't been able to find an answer to my question anywhere, maybe they don't know since it hasn't been released, but do any of you happen to know if the iPhone 3G will be able to be unlocked and used for other companies (T-Mobile) like the previous iPhone?

Also, what do you guys say about the HTC Diamond? It looks pretty nice, I was reading somewhere to hold off on the iPhone and get the Diamond, but I dont know where you even get them except Ebay.

I think it'll be difficult to get one without it already being tied to an AT&T contract as they're not selling them online (only at Apple and AT&T stores), and once you buy it from the store you have to sign up for a 2 year contract on the spot.

[quote2e44e02e9c="hilaryfanatic09"]So I haven't been able to find an answer to my question anywhere, maybe they don't know since it hasn't been released, but do any of you happen to know if the iPhone 3G will be able to be unlocked and used for other companies (T-Mobile) like the previous iPhone?

Also, what do you guys say about the HTC Diamond? It looks pretty nice, I was reading somewhere to hold off on the iPhone and get the Diamond, but I dont know where you even get them except Ebay.[/quote2e44e02e9c]


You will be able to buy an unlocked iphone

http//gizmodo.com/5021186/dont-buy-an-unlocked-iphone-from-att-just-cancel-a-new-contract

cheaper to do it that way though

[quote3f670a9d57="guelah75"][quote3f670a9d57="hilaryfanatic09"]So I haven't been able to find an answer to my question anywhere, maybe they don't know since it hasn't been released, but do any of you happen to know if the iPhone 3G will be able to be unlocked and used for other companies (T-Mobile) like the previous iPhone?

Also, what do you guys say about the HTC Diamond? It looks pretty nice, I was reading somewhere to hold off on the iPhone and get the Diamond, but I dont know where you even get them except Ebay.[/quote3f670a9d57]


You will be able to buy an unlocked iphone

http//gizmodo.com/5021186/dont-buy-an-unlocked-iphone-from-att-just-cancel-a-new-contract

cheaper to do it that way though[/quote3f670a9d57]
I think there's a lot of misinformation in that article. "No contract" does not mean "unlocked." It's still locked to AT&T, and the 3G radio won't work on T-Mobile's 3G network. Also, as many commenters pointed out, there is typically a handset fee as well as an early termination fee for a contract cancellation. If they're charging an extra $200 equipment fee for a RAZR cancellation, I can easily imagine an iPhone fee being around $500, on top of all the other fees listed in that article.