Taxes

What % of the prize value do you have to pay for taxes?

Depends on your tax bracket. Anywhere from 10% and up.
http//www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

Okay cool, thanks.

really i'd just report it as income and let them figure it out

You have to pay taxes on gifts? Thats a new one.

[quote0c27d9d179="orangejuice"]You have to pay taxes on gifts? Thats a new one.[/quote0c27d9d179]
Please, just stop. Please.

[quotee2ebba197f="orangejuice"]You have to pay taxes on gifts? Thats a new one.[/quotee2ebba197f]

You don't if you enjoy federal prison.

he's just trying to get a rise out of people, because he's not getting a lot of money from brandarama he'd gladly pay taxes on, if he didnt fraud them and they didn't find out first

OK, serious question about taxes and the Brandarama situation. Do we have to pay taxes if and when we get these checks? Since they are rebates and we've already paid taxes on the items for the rebate, would that make it different than a normal gift?

interesting call slambam, anyone know? fuck taxes

You should not have to report a rebate as income unless you deducted the original purchase as, for example, a business expense. At this point I think a very good argument exists that the Mpell process is/was legitimately a rebate since we've all been out of pocket for months waiting for the checks.

Unless they send me a 1099, I ain't reporting shit. It is a very good point and I think that the law states that rebates are not tax deductible. I suppose we'll all have to wait until tax time to see what happens and how Brandarama/MPell handles it. That is if we get paid first...

they dont call it a rebate they call it a cashback certificate. and youre not getting a small rebate discount, your getting the full amount of whatever you spent back, including the taxes remember. the bottomline of the receipt is your cashback amt. like what manofice received. so its still "iffy" id be careful about it.

yeah and I bet that ARG would just say that the Mpell contract was terminated so they don't have to consider the cashback certificate anymore, and they'll give us all 1099's.

It's taxable. To try and weasel your way out of it due to contrived issues of "rebate" or whatever is no less tax fraud than what OJ is saying, and we will not discuss it here.

Whether you get a 1099 or not, it's taxable. If and how you commit tax fraud is up to you, but we're not going to tacitly condone it by encouraging discussion of it here, either.

I was joking for christ's sake

Thank God for tax exemption ;)

So how do we claim losses for what Brandarama isn't paying us? What is the procedure for that?

ya thats a good question i'm wondering the same thing

lol thats quick thinking -- worry about it in december if you still received nothing, then ask a tax expert

There are no losses, unfortunately. You received product for what you spent on trials and not getting the 'gift' is not a loss for tax purposes.

You can claim the loss as settlement for a debt owed to you. I forget which form is for it, but you take the value of what you are owed as a tax deduction and a letter is sent to them showing your debt is settled.

I forget how this is done.

Hmmm...the IRS would think differently. You did not receive a [ba33b42fe06]gift[/ba33b42fe06], which is totally different from having a debt go bad. There is no debt owed you since you did not pay out an amount creating it and unless you already reported the gift as income there is nothing to deduct the non-payment against.

This is not a casualty loss either, so no luck with the theft or disaster angle.

In fact, it's equivalent to having someone promise you a pony for your birthday and then backing out at the last minute. You can not deduct the cost of a pony from your income in that case either.

That could be true since you didn't loan out the money. Except that if you did an MPell cashback certificate I'm sure you could swing it your way into this. You did shell out the full amount and you entered a contract with them.

That would be a basis for a claim against Mpell...which now that ARG has gone on the record as being toast would be your only chance. However, since you still have the value of the gift card(s) or items purchased in anticipation of the cashback rebate you suffered no actual damages.

[quotef67d45886c="Eeyore"]That would be a basis for a claim against Mpell...which now that ARG has gone on the record as being toast would be your only chance. However, since you still have the value of the gift card(s) or items purchased in anticipation of the cashback rebate you suffered no actual damages.[/quotef67d45886c]

Can't we just file in Small claims court, get a judgement against ARG for what they owe us and then when they either file for bankruptcy or will not pay with demand letters etc write it off as a "bad debt" when itemizing?

M

actually you dont have losses to claim ever, because the terms and conditions state it can change at anytime, and you dont have to receive a gift ever if they dont want to

[quotefcc1c2e1be="mariners1999"][quotefcc1c2e1be="Eeyore"]That would be a basis for a claim against Mpell...which now that ARG has gone on the record as being toast would be your only chance. However, since you still have the value of the gift card(s) or items purchased in anticipation of the cashback rebate you suffered no actual damages.[/quotefcc1c2e1be]

Can't we just file in Small claims court, get a judgement against ARG for what they owe us and then when they either file for bankruptcy or will not pay with demand letters etc write it off as a "bad debt" when itemizing?

M[/quotefcc1c2e1be]

I would say you could do this. But you can only file in Small claims before they file bankruptcy I believe.

[quote9969ee7ced="andyoi630"][quote9969ee7ced="mariners1999"][quote9969ee7ced="Eeyore"]That would be a basis for a claim against Mpell...which now that ARG has gone on the record as being toast would be your only chance. However, since you still have the value of the gift card(s) or items purchased in anticipation of the cashback rebate you suffered no actual damages.[/quote9969ee7ced]

Can't we just file in Small claims court, get a judgement against ARG for what they owe us and then when they either file for bankruptcy or will not pay with demand letters etc write it off as a "bad debt" when itemizing?

M[/quote9969ee7ced]

I would say you could do this. But you can only file in Small claims before they file bankruptcy I believe.[/quote9969ee7ced]


Yes that is correct I believe however if the file Bankruptcy then you can "file" with the bankruptcy court as an unsecured creditor and you would have paperwork that proves they owed you $$$.... I think we should be able to write this off regardless. Just file in small claims or when they declare BK file with BK court.lili

lilinot tax advise but I would talk to your accountant to see if possible.

M

The problem with all of this is you have to prove damages even in small claims. Your damages are not the gift value...it is what you are out of pocket once the value of the trial offers is subtracted. You could win a judgment that amounts to $10 or less...

[quotec4ca653861="Eeyore"]The problem with all of this is you have to prove damages even in small claims. Your damages are not the gift value...it is what you are out of pocket once the value of the trial offers is subtracted. You could win a judgment that amounts to $10 or less...[/quotec4ca653861]


Not sure that is how it works.... I won a small claims court judgement against a freebie company about 2 years ago and they were required to pay me the amount they owed me (42 inch plasma TV valued at 1800 bucks). I only spent $45 on the offers but the judge saw that I entered a contract with the company (like an independent contractor) and for my time and cost they were to give me a 42 inch plasma. The company made money on my work and I spent my time (worth money) and cash to complete the contract.

What you are saying is if I only spent $10 out of pocket to go to work today and I was not paid and I sued they would only owe me $10??? Not for my time or work completed???

You may have had different results when you filed. What happend when you did it?

M

You got that due to the contractual nature of the relationship. I don't see that in ARG's terms, but you never know what a judge will do. Both the company and you had to agree to those terms.

I have not had to go after freebie companies (yet) but when collecting debts there are some pretty clear lines you need to stay inside of. This would be such a case.

[quotee380b37b25="mariners1999"][quotee380b37b25="Eeyore"]The problem with all of this is you have to prove damages even in small claims. Your damages are not the gift value...it is what you are out of pocket once the value of the trial offers is subtracted. You could win a judgment that amounts to $10 or less...[/quotee380b37b25]


Not sure that is how it works.... I won a small claims court judgement against a freebie company about 2 years ago and they were required to pay me the amount they owed me (42 inch plasma TV valued at 1800 bucks). I only spent $45 on the offers but the judge saw that I entered a contract with the company (like an independent contractor) and for my time and cost they were to give me a 42 inch plasma. The company made money on my work and I spent my time (worth money) and cash to complete the contract.

What you are saying is if I only spent $10 out of pocket to go to work today and I was not paid and I sued they would only owe me $10??? Not for my time or work completed???

You may have had different results when you filed. What happend when you did it?

M[/quotee380b37b25]

no he's saying if youre owed a $500 gift and you spent $490 on offers then your damages are $10. but i think you have a good shot at more than that just given the nature of this scheme that has befallen you.

No, that is not what I am saying. Your damages are what you spent minus the value of any offers you keep, which could easily dilute your out of pocket to near zero. Just because you had a $500 gift card "gift" coming (note the word "gift" in there) does not necessarily mean they are obligated to make you whole. In fact, the wording implies that the $500 gift card is incidental to you completing the program. This sort of language is what lawyers make big money writing, and your chances in small claims court depend almost entirely on how grouchy the judge is that day.

[quotefb8547f1bf="Eeyore"]No, that is not what I am saying. Your damages are what you spent minus the value of any offers you keep, which could easily dilute your out of pocket to near zero. Just because you had a $500 gift card "gift" coming (note the word "gift" in there) does not necessarily mean they are obligated to make you whole. In fact, the wording implies that the $500 gift card is incidental to you completing the program. This sort of language is what lawyers make big money writing, and your chances in small claims court depend almost entirely on how grouchy the judge is that day.[/quotefb8547f1bf]

That is why I like Small Claims Courts..... They will NEVER send someone out to my state when I file against them. I will win by default.

One thing that the judge had said that struck me was that a normal person in my case that jumped through all the companies hoops would expect their gift. I played by their rules and then they chose not to hold up their end of the bargin. Judgement for Plantiff.

I don't think I will ever get any money but a nice tax writeoff would be helpful.

M

wait so you went and thats what he said? ha thats great, yea thats more along the lines of what i was thinking, despite all the legal jargon, its like shopping for cereal boxes at the supermarket but when you hand the cashier the money, the stockboy steals the box and puts it back in the shelf, cause the supermarket terms and conditions says youre not garaunteed to check out with your item haha

[quote3b72126fb9="kinneylamb"]wait so you went and thats what he said? ha thats great, yea thats more along the lines of what i was thinking, despite all the legal jargon, its like shopping for cereal boxes at the supermarket but when you hand the cashier the money, the stockboy steals the box and puts it back in the shelf, cause the supermarket terms and conditions says youre not garaunteed to check out with your item haha[/quote3b72126fb9]

LOL.... Yea I went a few years back vs. a company and that is what he said. The company did not even show up and I had all my paperwork, emails, T&C etc. for him to review. He let me talk for about 2 min to explain what happened and looked at what I brought. Since no one showed up he entered a judgement against the company. I really think he was disappointed he could not grill the rep from the company. He also said that the T&C were ambiguous and would not hold up in very many courts in his opinion. I was paid about 2 months later after demand letters were sent certified to the company and I was able to get a hold of the COO of the company.

M

[quote69012a05c1="mariners1999"][quote69012a05c1="kinneylamb"]wait so you went and thats what he said? ha thats great, yea thats more along the lines of what i was thinking, despite all the legal jargon, its like shopping for cereal boxes at the supermarket but when you hand the cashier the money, the stockboy steals the box and puts it back in the shelf, cause the supermarket terms and conditions says youre not garaunteed to check out with your item haha[/quote69012a05c1]

LOL.... Yea I went a few years back vs. a company and that is what he said. The company did not even show up and I had all my paperwork, emails, T&C etc. for him to review. He let me talk for about 2 min to explain what happened and looked at what I brought. Since no one showed up he entered a judgement against the company. I really think he was disappointed he could not grill the rep from the company. He also said that the T&C were ambiguous and would not hold up in very many courts in his opinion. I was paid about 2 months later after demand letters were sent certified to the company and I was able to get a hold of the COO of the company.

M[/quote69012a05c1]
nice

holy crap thats great .. justice

[quote5762b73d73="mariners1999"][quote5762b73d73="kinneylamb"]wait so you went and thats what he said? ha thats great, yea thats more along the lines of what i was thinking, despite all the legal jargon, its like shopping for cereal boxes at the supermarket but when you hand the cashier the money, the stockboy steals the box and puts it back in the shelf, cause the supermarket terms and conditions says youre not garaunteed to check out with your item haha[/quote5762b73d73]

LOL.... Yea I went a few years back vs. a company and that is what he said. The company did not even show up and I had all my paperwork, emails, T&C etc. for him to review. He let me talk for about 2 min to explain what happened and looked at what I brought. Since no one showed up he entered a judgement against the company. I really think he was disappointed he could not grill the rep from the company. He also said that the T&C were ambiguous and would not hold up in very many courts in his opinion. I was paid about 2 months later after demand letters were sent certified to the company and I was able to get a hold of the COO of the company.

M[/quote5762b73d73]

ha, thats a great story, nice work