Dont fraud the offers or else

Another person on scam.com is about to get pwned for basically being a dick and signing up for the same couple of offers repeatedly roll
http//www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=9845
signing up for an offer once or twice is ok. But when you decide to get greedy you will get burned eventually......

wtf is with your sig?

[quote2b57391c74="tylerc"]wtf is with your sig?[/quote2b57391c74]

It was a post I made on scam... Junior has some kind of beef with me because he didn't pay me for an offer... long story, not completly his fault, but he won't forget that i'm not in the best terms with him...

I doubt she can do anything as if you read down the post, people say he was well within the terms and conditions. He did however abuse the system but otherwise did nothing wrong. She was just mad most likely that she made no money from this guy and paid out to MR which is another funny thing b/c she seemed to know nothing about the incentive site.

What a fucking idiot. It's their own fault for doing, I mean it's just common sense.

They deserve whatever's coming to them.

wow.

im definately not signing up for multiple offers anymore ..

[quoted7d8e72099="EatChex89"]wow.

im definately not signing up for multiple offers anymore ..[/quoted7d8e72099]

Tru Dat. I'm addicted to cheese but it's just not worth the risk anymore.

They really can't technically do anything to him, but I dunno how this guy slept at night doing the same offer 7+ times with no remorse for whoever was paying for his signups. I mean cmon...

[quote804a0115b5="ajrock2000"]They really can't technically do anything to him, but I dunno how this guy slept at night doing the same offer 7+ times with no remorse for whoever was paying for his signups. I mean cmon...[/quote804a0115b5]

yea 7 times is a bit much, at most i've done is 3...

[quotedd1abbcc85="EatChex89"][quotedd1abbcc85="ajrock2000"]They really can't technically do anything to him, but I dunno how this guy slept at night doing the same offer 7+ times with no remorse for whoever was paying for his signups. I mean cmon...[/quotedd1abbcc85]

yea 7 times is a bit much, at most i've done is 3...[/quotedd1abbcc85]
What offer have you pulled that off on?

That guy was dumb as anything. SEVEN TIMES? geez. I thought two was much.

He was dumb period. He starts blabbing his whole plan to get freebies from it? Cmon.. way to ruin it for everyone else too. Now offers like that will be further scrutinized or even PULLED from sites...

Some people need a common sense license before doing even the most mundane things...

[quote59b9616259="Airkat"]He was dumb period. He starts blabbing his whole plan to get freebies from it? Cmon.. way to ruin it for everyone else too. Now offers like that will be further scrutinized or even PULLED from sites...

Some people need a common sense license before doing even the most mundane things...[/quote59b9616259]

HAHAHA. I read that and said to myself "WHAT A FUCKIN IDIOT"

Way to rat on the scene that has helped you in the past. Thats how offers get removed and people get screwed

Seriously man.. THATS the reason why when people find REALLY good sites they keep it secret. THATS why when people find a loophole, or flaw they keep it secret. It gets out and the idiots get it. The idiots get it and you might as well kiss it bye bye.

In Jay's defense he had no real way of knowing how these sites worked, and that this woman was paying for his crappy lead...

but 7 fucking times for three different offers? jesus....

Can they really sue you for signing up on their site and returning their items? I mean I don't see how that would be illegal. Any updates on if they actually went ahead with the lawsuit? I heard it's illegal to threaten people to sue them if they don't even intend to do it in the first place.

It's probably just the smaller companies like these that would bother to do this. Netmarket, Video Prof, etc. wouldn't bother.

In either case, what a fucking fool.

[quote91e1bfe048="VrExe"]Can they really sue you for signing up on their site and returning their items? I mean I don't see how that would be illegal. Any updates on if they actually went ahead with the lawsuit? I heard it's illegal to threaten people to sue them if they don't even intend to do it in the first place.[/quote91e1bfe048]

the fact that the woman was demanding money from Jay shows you that she was just threatening him to shake the money out of him. If she really wanted to sue him, he'd just get served a few days/weeks from now.

No she can't sue him. we've all got our own idea about "fraud" and what not, but of course in the legal sense of the word he paid for an item, he got a refund, and there's nothing fraudulent about that regardless of how many times he did it. Its like if someone is handing out free samples intending for each person to try it once and buy if they liked it, and here comes Jay with a bowl to take home as much as he can get his hands on.. Illegal? No? Wrong.. yeah...

i've never completed an offer more than once....ps..i love that post about cheese, hehehe

[quotee99d1e0c57="LucaBella"][quotee99d1e0c57="VrExe"]Can they really sue you for signing up on their site and returning their items? I mean I don't see how that would be illegal. Any updates on if they actually went ahead with the lawsuit? I heard it's illegal to threaten people to sue them if they don't even intend to do it in the first place.[/quotee99d1e0c57]

the fact that the woman was demanding money from Jay shows you that she was just threatening him to shake the money out of him. If she really wanted to sue him, he'd just get served a few days/weeks from now.

No she can't sue him. we've all got our own idea about "fraud" and what not, but of course in the legal sense of the word he paid for an item, he got a refund, and there's nothing fraudulent about that regardless of how many times he did it. Its like if someone is handing out free samples intending for each person to try it once and buy if they liked it, and here comes Jay with a bowl to take home as much as he can get his hands on.. Illegal? No? Wrong.. yeah...[/quotee99d1e0c57]


cant put it any better than this.

He was stupid for doing it that many times, but these companies know whats going on. They know that they pay affiliates to bring in customers, and they know that these affiliates run sites that bring in people who just want to complete the offer and get their product/money. On top of that, most of the offers out there are for pretty crap products/services, so I really don't feel bad for them. Im sure others here feel differently, but thats just how I feel.

3 more people got caught "frauding" real estate fortunes
they have also made drastic changes to their terms and condidtions
basically if you signup through an incentive site you dont get a refund..
heres a post from another member who got caught

Received this email today from Sonja.

Quote

Mike,

This is to notify you we have detected fraudulent activity to our company
that was placed by you.

We have on record 5 ebook orders you have placed - all for the exact same
book- along with 3 Tax Lien book orders, all of which you have returnd.

We do not tolerate people stealing our information, just to keep refunding
and instigate chargebacks against our account. This is a valid fraud you
have committed and we refuse to let you get by with it. Your address,
computer IP and contact info are already in our database and verified by our
lawyer.

You are now on notice that not only will you reiceve an invoice from us
drafted by our attorney for the full amoutn of the products you have
refunded, which is a total of $686, but you are also going to be charged
our bank fees for handling these refunds and chargebacks, at $25 per
transaction. So you are looking now at $886 you owe our company. I have
documented evidence of each date of order, date of refund, shippping and
delivery inforatmion as well as bank chargeback and refund charges.

We are sending you this invoice and you have 30 days to pay, otherwise we
will be seeing you in court.

You can make your cashier's check or money order ONLY payable to

Real Estate Fortunes
228 W. Lincoln Highway #133
Schererville, IN 46375

Claiming not to recieve this isn't going to work either. I highly suggest
you refrain from ever placing another order from my company again.


Sonja Vukas
VP, Regional Manager
Platinum Acquisitions, INC
RealEstate Fortunes.com

If Metarewards AKA EXPERIAN sides with Sonja these guys are in deeeeeep shit.

She mustve been heated when she typed that.. lots of typos.. but yep.. saw it coming.. some people just don't think...

Could we be witnessing the downfall of DIY offers such as this?

[quoted50ff7ed2c="JUNIOR6886"]Another person on scam.com is about to get pwned for basically being a dick and signing up for the same couple of offers repeatedly roll
http//www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=9845
signing up for an offer once or twice is ok. But when you decide to get greedy you will get burned eventually......[/quoted50ff7ed2c]

tell me about it. i got banned from A4F for posting about doing Stamps.com twice.... ghetto... .buturl==http://=http:///url after that irealized risk involved, i tend to keep it 1 offer per lifetime now

Metarewards has always been the one to care about these things, i believe gigante mentioned something about it.

ok just read the entire thing and i have three points to make

1. Yes, it isnt right doing an offer more then once

2. They have nothing against them, since it was never in their TOS prior to the offers being done. Unless they do it again now they have nothing against them.

3. Metarewards has nothing against them. The company themselves dont either unless they have something in their TOS prior.

I thought MR had something about doing an offer more than once? I may be wrong on that one...

I agree they may not have much else besides scare tactics... but still a dumb move on his part...

<dramatization>I'm scared! lemme spill my guts and help ruin the DIY scene!</dramatization>

You forgot to mention that dramatization stared Eric Roberts in the title role

http//us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/walt_disney/miracle/eric_roberts/miraclepre.jpg[" alt=""/imgbf3c1ff8d5]

[quote5b9df98b18="Airkat"]I thought MR had something about doing an offer more than once? I may be wrong on that one...

I agree they may not have much else besides scare tactics... but still a dumb move on his part...

<dramatization>I'm scared! lemme spill my guts and help ruin the DIY scene!</dramatization>[/quote5b9df98b18]

I like that quote in your siggy. I want a house, get me one for $20 please wink

Why are people on scam acting like he's the victim? I hope Real Estate Fortunes sues the crap out of him, that guy's a complete jackass. He basically helped screw over everyone else who wanted to complete rewards venue, myself included.

just read the massive post on scam, I have to say this guy Jay is a retard

I hope nothing bad happens to him, but give me a break.....the same offer 8 f'n times

i agree with Luca this is going to screw everyone that does DIY sites

not sure if i will do anymore or not, hate to wait to see what happens but hate to do more offers on a site and then watch it go under because of people doing an offer 8 times

i mean 8 times, someone please explain to me how this would ever seem right to anyone

8 times, the SAME offer?....8 times

[quotea33ade3241="guelah75"]just read the massive post on scam, I have to say this guy Jay is a retard

I hope nothing bad happens to him, but give me a break.....the same offer 8 f'n times

i agree with Luca this is going to screw everyone that does DIY sites

not sure if i will do anymore or not, hate to wait to see what happens but hate to do more offers on a site and then watch it go under because of people doing an offer 8 times

i mean 8 times, someone please explain to me how this would ever seem right to anyone

8 times, the SAME offer?....8 times[/quotea33ade3241]

Thing is only metarewards for now though, dunno about YFdirect/Nuitech

[quotebb084eeb7b="guelah75"]just read the massive post on scam, I have to say this guy Jay is a retard

I hope nothing bad happens to him, but give me a break.....the same offer 8 f'n times

i agree with Luca this is going to screw everyone that does DIY sites

not sure if i will do anymore or not, hate to wait to see what happens but hate to do more offers on a site and then watch it go under because of people doing an offer 8 times

i mean 8 times, someone please explain to me how this would ever seem right to anyone

8 times, the SAME offer?....8 times[/quotebb084eeb7b]

If you've ever read at scam.com it is really not against people completing an offer multiple times... there still isn't an excuse for it, but people are always asking if it is ok to complete certain offers more than once and what is needed to do so... this is the first time has ever been called out on it...

[quotef5eb87730f="ragefu"]He basically helped screw over everyone else who wanted to complete rewards venue, myself included.[/quotef5eb87730f]
Yep, assnecks that did the same offer numerous times are probably what got half the decent tier 3 offers pulled and the reason I'll never be able to finish the $2k gift card from MR.

evil

That said, the Vukas people have no case.

Wait, why are you guys saying you cant finish MR now? If you did their offer once, or legitimately, you shouldn't have to worry about anything, right?

its impossible because not only did MR remove some of the cheaper offers
(denise austin, zone diet, etc..) some of the current offers have new terms and conditions. For example you can no longer request a refund for tax linens direct or real estate fortunes if you buy them through MR
same is true for the chella offer....

fucking dicks have to go and ruin everything... i had page 1 and 2 done and now i wont be able to do page 3 (

That's true. I still bought the Chella and Real Estate offers for the high price. Why? Because in the end I will still come out with a $1,400 profit.

^^ that's the spirit

Yeah. But the thing is, I"m still waiting for 5 offers to even be listed on my account page, one being Chella. (

although paying 400+ for the offer will still put you in the black for rewards venue at the end, the turnaround time for MR sites have increased dramatically. The main question you gotta ask yourself is
how long are you willing to part with your 400-500 bucks?

I might try the offer and if I don't like it call them, ask to speak to this Sonja character, and rip her a new arsehole. As retarded as he may be for doing this offer multiple times, it still holds no grounds for customer service to email him and threaten to take him to small claims court. The customer is always right. He won't have to pay a cent, I guarantee it. Let this be a warning to all, however.

nm

There's no way she's going to take him to court.

Just to drop in my point of view...

With FusionCash, I've had a great opportunity to see both sides of incentivized CPA marketing. In addition to running offers from affiliates (including MetaReward), we have a CPA campaign on a smaller affiliate network. Initially, we didn't allow incentivized leads on our campaign. We opened it up to them pretty quickly, on the advice of the affiliate managers, and we haven't noticed a huge difference in lead quality. The proportion of non-incentivized affiliates who send crappy leads is roughly the same as the proportion of incentivized affiliates who send crappy leads.

It seems like people assume that advertisers such as Sonja Vukas are "stupid". She may have some grammatical mistakes in her correspondence, but that doesn't mean she's incapable of looking at the bottom line. In her case, the bottom line was probably "profit", even with the crappy incentivized leads. When you're dealing with hundreds of customers, it's easy to look at the big picture (profit) and ignore the small details (where crappy leads are coming from). She probably didn't know about freebies because she didn't need to know - the leads she was getting were making her money.

You should remember that, especially within DIY, there is heavy outside advertising. The "typical" internet user (i.e. not saavy) is a great target for what they're selling. Tracking down information on Real Estate would be incredibly daunting for my mom, as an example. She probably wouldn't pay $90 for the information, but it's not a stretch for me to think that some people would find it a reasonable fee.

MetaReward is by far my favorite affiliate network. They have incredible support. They're flexible, cooperative and understanding at every turn. We do our very best to provide quality leads, and when we fail to do it (i.e. disable a fraudulent user's account), we report the "bad" leads back to the affiliate network, which means we don't get paid for them. Is there money to be made from keeping that cash? Absolutely. Is it the right thing to do? Will it help keep incentivized CPA marketing alive? No, and no.

Generally speaking, people get what's coming to them. Anyone who defrauds offers (whether by violating explicitly the terms of service or just exploiting a loophole) will eventually have it come back to them. I enjoy tracking down scammers and frauders, disabling their accounts and reporting their leads back to the affiliate network. I would rather have that person caught for doing the "wrong" thing than to have a few quick bucks. Over the past couple months, we've seen fraud decline 75% from proactive monitoring.


I guess what I'm trying to get at is this
There is a fundamental feeling, especially in freebie communities, about incentive marketing, and that feeling stems from greed. Normally moral people will stoop to new lows and feign stupidity when confronted with it. If the entire structure of incentivized marketing falls apart, it will be because of people like Jay.

Something to think about
If you saw $60 sticking out of a middle aged woman's purse one day, would you take it? Would you feel bad about it? More importantly, would you feel entitled to it?

How about if the next day, it was sticking out again, and the next day, you took it. How would you feel then? What I'm describing, while an exaggeration, is not particularly far from Jay's situation. Completing the same offer more than once is [b6e92d33320]wrong[/b6e92d33320]. In my opinion, completing an offer without an honest-to-god interest in the product or service offered is wrong. That makes me a hypocrite.


None of this matters, though. Nobody's going to listen, and future "Jays" will continue to amorally pillage freesites, and eventually the business of DIY sites will turn from a net profit to a net loss. And then there will be more of what we're already seeing huge offer requirements and stricter offer terms. And that's why we can't have nice things.


In closing, there are two smaller things that bugged me from that thread
1) there seemed to be this idea that if south beach diet keeps $20, they're somehow making money. No. Whether or not you cancel, they're paying $65 in commission plus affiliate network fees for your signup. It's still a net loss, and a very significant one at that.
2) i think there were a couple posts where the posters chose to accuse the Vukas' of being scammers, and deserving whatever they got. It's just a cop out. The Vukas' business, while perhaps not the most legitimate, is certainly more legitimate than someone sitting at their computer defrauding advertisers repeatedly in order to cash in on a free gift. the idea that the typical freebie community user is "more moral" than a typical incentivzed cpa advertiser is freaking absurd.

Wow, Jay is a complete jackass, thats all ill say.

Yeah, Jay is a complete jackass, but cmon, if it wasnt Jay it would be someone else. The vukas are dumb for not having some sort of stipulation in their terms about completing it multiple times and/or some kind of return policy. I'm not saying that would make people not do it, but at least they would have something to back themselves up should it goto court. There is always going to be some greedy clown out there, and it surprises me that these companies don't protect themselves better than they do.

Sadly though, I think the most dangerous thing that was done, was when Jay admitted to buying the real estate courses multiple times for large amounts of cash and prizes. That changed everything.

[quote48c612875d="ragefu"]Why are people on scam acting like he's the victim? I hope Real Estate Fortunes sues the crap out of him, that guy's a complete jackass. He basically helped screw over everyone else who wanted to complete rewards venue, myself included.[/quote48c612875d]

That is what I was saying. There is definately something wrong with that guy.

The people who post on that forum defending this kind of activity are selfish fucking idiots.