Wall Street Journal

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=77441


24-09-2008 21:22:54

Anyone have a subscription to the wallstreet journal and want to be so kind as to email me 4 articles. I need to answer questions on them for my business class but don't want to pay the $89 for the subscription. I need them asap so all help will be greatly appreciated.

The articles I need now are
GM Looks for Buzz With Its Electric Volt
by John D. Stoll
Sep 15, 2008
Page B1

U.S. Auto Makers Target Battery Gap With Japan
by John Murphy
Sep 15, 2008
Page B1

The Japan Lesson U.S. Must Own Up To Its Bank Crisis
by Justin Lahart
Sep 15, 2008
Page A2

Fed Resists Pressure to Cut Rates
by Sudeep Reddy
Sep 17, 2008
Page A3


24-09-2008 21:36:58

go to the library before school starts, and get the back issue.


24-09-2008 21:42:24

Ya, i'm going to have to... but its due at 9 30am and I have class at 8am before it. Which means i'll be up very very early (


24-09-2008 22:44:20

My eco professor made us read the WSJ. Never got around to doing so. Might as well made the most of my subscription.
can't find the 3 article though...

GM Looks for Buzz With Its Electric Volt
[quote307604734a]Detroit -- General Motors Corp. on Tuesday plans to officially unveil its most important model in decades -- and possibly the key to its survival.
[GM to Unveil Volt] General Motors

A GM engineer with the Chevy Volt, due to hit the market by late 2010

The Chevrolet Volt is a battery-powered compact car scheduled to hit the market by the end of 2010. It is designed to give GM the kind of highly fuel-efficient vehicle it needs to compete in an era of near $4-a-gallon gasoline.

But the car also has another, more-strategic purpose to change minds.

GM is hoping the Volt will be such a technological leap forward that the many consumers who have turned their backs on Detroit will give the company and its cars a fresh look.

The auto maker also hopes the Volt will become its signature product, supplanting the big sport-utility vehicles like the Hummer and Chevrolet Suburban that now define its image.

On Tuesday, as part of its 100th anniversary celebration, GM will show off the version of the Volt it plans to put into production. And it looks like the increasing buzz about the car already is having an impact.

Some 40,800 people have put their names on an unofficial waiting list for the car, many of them former devotees of GM rivals like Toyota Motor Corp. or environmentalists, once among GM's toughest critics. The waiting list is compiled by gm-volt.com, a Web site created by a New York neurologist named Lyle Dennis.

It isn't clear how accurate an indicator the waiting list might be of eventual demand for the Volt. While GM watches the list closely, it hasn't said it will honor it. Some Chevrolet dealers, meanwhile, are keeping waiting lists of their own.
[GM Seeks Buzz With Volt] Corbis

The GM EV-1

Among those eager for the chance to buy a Volt is George Kalkas, a 61-year-old business owner who lives in suburban Chicago and owns two Toyotas -- a Camry and a Prius hybrid. "There is no doubt I'm going to get a Volt," says Mr. Kalkas, an enthusiast for fuel-saving technologies. "I wake up in the morning thinking about it."

While the rising enthusiasm for the Volt offers GM an opportunity, it also poses some big risks. The biggest is that it isn't yet certain that the car will arrive in dealer showrooms on time, or even work as advertised.

It is also unclear how well the Volt's lithium-ion batteries will stand up to years of use. Lithium-ion cells can get very hot. Indeed, certain laptop computers were recalled in recent years after their lithium-ion batteries caught fire.

GM says fire isn't a likely risk for the car batteries it is developing, thanks to the chemical formula it will use and a sophisticated cooling system.

If the Volt fails to work as GM has promised or its launch runs into significant delays, the company could lose credibility with some of its newly won fans, says Elizabeth Lowery, GM's vice president for environmental and energy issues.

"We have to deliver," she adds. The vehicle is "very important to our entire strategy."
[GM Seeks Buzz With Volt]

But Ms. Lowery, like other GM executives, says the Volt's development is on track.

GM knows the dangers of disappointing avid fans. In the 1990s, it was developing a battery-powered car, the EV-1, which garnered a devoted following. When the company pulled the plug on the car early this decade, its fans were outraged. A documentary film, "Who Killed the Electric Car?," cast GM in an unfavorable light.

Like the EV-1, the Volt has attracted many supporters. Both presidential candidates have either referred to the car or used it as a prop on the campaign trail. Chris Paine, the director of "Who Killed the Electric Car?," who has been a highly touted guest at various GM events, has said the Volt could redeem GM's credentials as a technology leader.

The Volt is supposed to be able to travel 40 miles on electric power alone if its 400-pound battery pack is fully charged. After that, a four-cylinder gasoline engine generates electricity to power the car and recharge the battery.

GM estimates that, on certain trips, some drivers may be able to go 100 miles or more per gallon of gasoline. The vehicle is designed to be recharged at home by plugging it into a power outlet.

Last month, GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said the Volt will likely cost in the mid- to high $30,000 range, roughly double the cost of conventional compact cars. Tax credits for high-mileage vehicles could lower the cost to consumers.

The notion of a hefty premium isn't scaring away potential customers like Mark Bartosik. A 39-year-old software engineer from Bay Shore, N.Y., he saw the general manager of GM's Chevrolet division, Ed Peper, at an event hosted by gm-volt.com, and tried to hand him a check for $10,000 as a deposit on a Volt. Mr. Peper declined the check.

Mr. Bartosik says his chief interest is reducing energy consumption. His home is outfitted with $100,000 in solar panels that generate electricity.

Before hearing about the Volt, Mr. Bartosik says he thought of GM as the company that put its heart into the Hummer and wasn't very interested in improving fuel economy. Now, he says, "I want to buy a vehicle from them."

GM is working hard to deliver the Volt on schedule. It is planning to spend between $400 million and $500 million in the next few years on the engineering and remaining development work, according to people familiar with its budget.

Along with its domestic rivals and U.S. suppliers, GM also is lobbying Congress to approve low-cost loans to the industry. The company says it would use such a loan to fund the retooling of a Hamtramck, Mich., assembly plant to give it capacity to build 60,000 Volts annually. Some of its suppliers are already making plans to furnish parts for more than 100,000 annually.

The company also is scrambling to develop long-lasting batteries. At GM's development center in Warren, Mich., engineers have set up test benches with battery packs charging and discharging continuously to see if they can last 10 years or 150,000 miles. Those tests won't be complete, however, until March 2010, just seven months before the Volt is supposed to be ready.[/quote307604734a]

U.S. Auto Makers Target
Battery Gap With Japan

[quote307604734a]The lengthening lead Japan's auto makers hold in securing supplies of advanced batteries to power the next generation of automobiles has become a rallying point for the U.S. auto industry in seeking at least $25 billion in government loans.

Over the past decade, Japan's auto giants have been teaming up with its electronics companies, which have dominated global battery manufacturing for laptop computers, mobile phones and other products. Most Japanese battery makers -- even those allied with Japanese auto makers -- say they are willing to supply other car makers.

But securing an adequate supply of batteries over the next few years has become a growing concern for auto makers everywhere. The U.S. industry is leery of depending too heavily on foreign battery makers allied with Japanese auto makers, for fear those suppliers would give priority to filling the orders of their Japanese partners.

Over the past several months, a number of Japan's auto makers and its top battery makers have reached new agreements to work together on vehicle batteries. At least five battery factories are under construction in Japan, including a $115 million facility announced in May by Nissan Motor Co. and electronics giant NEC Corp.

The flurry of deals promises to put U.S. auto makers even further behind their Japanese rivals in manufacturing capacity and technological know-how on the battery front, analysts say.

On Friday, U.S. auto-industry leaders pressed American lawmakers for federal loans to develop homegrown technology for more fuel-efficient vehicles, such as hybrids, plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles.

General Motors Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, appearing on Capitol Hill, called on Congress to support advanced-battery development in the U.S., which he said lags far behind the government-supported development efforts in Japan and South Korea.

The market for advanced automotive batteries is expected to grow to between $30 billion and $40 billion a year by 2020, compared with today's $900 million market for hybrid batteries, according to Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.

Detroit executives say that by helping to narrow the battery-development gap, a federal-loan package would further the goal of U.S. energy security in addition to aiding the country's auto industry. The executives argue that failure to develop a competitive battery industry domestically could create a new energy dependency for the U.S. by making it reliant on foreign-made batteries, even as it seeks to reduce its dependence on imported oil.

"Moving from imported oil to imported batteries" wouldn't address the nation's energy-security concerns, said Mark Fields, head of Ford Motor Co. operations in the Americas, speaking recently in Washington. "Bold and dramatic incentives are needed to accelerate the commercial development of high-energy power batteries right here in the U.S."

Higher oil prices have pushed consumers to hybrids at a much faster pace than almost anyone had imagined, accelerating car makers' need for access to good batteries. Even Toyota Motor Corp., which has the largest supply, encountered a shortage this year of the batteries used to power the electric motor in its popular Prius gasoline-electric hybrid. As a result, it was forced to put some customers on three-month-long waiting lists for the Prius.

For now, some U.S. auto makers are seeking supplies from Japanese battery makers. GM recently announced plans to buy lithium-ion batteries for 100,000 hybrids from Japan's Hitachi Ltd. Sanyo Electric Co. supplies batteries for Ford hybrids.

But Japanese companies continue to invest in their own facilities. Nissan and partner NEC announced in May that they will build a factory that has capacity to make 65,000 lithium-ion batteries a year by 2011, as the car maker aims to become the world's largest producer of electric vehicles.

In July, Toyota opened a battery-research center, which it plans to double in size in the next two years to include 100 scientists and support staff, to develop a supercharged battery more powerful than those now on the market. A slew of smaller companies are ramping up production of cathodes, electrodes and other essential battery-making materials.

Unlike the U.S., Japan has made energy savings a top priority for years. While Detroit has focused on highly profitable large trucks and sport-utility vehicles in recent years, Japanese auto makers have continued to concentrate on smaller, fuel-sipping vehicles, including hybrids

Toyota and Matsushita Electric Industrial Co. formed a joint venture in 1996 called Panasonic EV Energy to produce batteries for Toyota hybrids. With two plants running and a third under construction, the venture aims to produce enough nickel-metal-hydride batteries to power one million hybrid vehicles a year soon after 2010, more than double its plans for this year.

In addition, the company plans to start making lithium-ion batteries, a more-powerful kind of battery that will be used in Toyota's plug-in hybrids scheduled for release late next year.

Panasonic EV Energy runs what is currently Japan's most-advanced battery-making facility. Rising above the rice fields and rows of greenhouses in the farming town of Kosai in central Japan, the factory operates around the clock.

Japan's GS Yuasa, a Kyoto battery maker that has teamed up with Mitsubishi Motors Corp. and Mitsubishi Corp. to make lithium-ion batteries, has been honing its battery-making expertise for two decades, creating batteries for a wide range of uses, including satellites, submarines and power tools.

The company's production facility is a warren of sealed, air-tight rooms. Employees wear face masks, and the floors are lined with sticky mats to collect dust and other particles that could ruin a battery's performance. "Mass production of batteries is very difficult," says Ken Sawai, a manager at GS Yuasa. "There are many secrets."

And there is ample opportunity for developers of better batteries. "Whoever can make a safe, long-life and low-cost battery will be the winner," says Khalil Amine, a battery researcher at the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory.

Those trying to do that include start-ups like A123 Systems Inc., a small company founded by a group of scientists from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. A123 is a contender for the battery design that will power GM's planned Chevrolet Volt.

Another battery player in the U.S. is Johnson Controls Inc., which last month was awarded an $8.2 million contract by the U.S. Department of Energy to develop lithium-ion batteries for plug-in hybrid vehicles. The company also will provide lithium-ion batteries for the Mercedes-Benz S-Class hybrid vehicle, scheduled to be on the market in early 2009.

But much more needs to be done, says Mary Ann Wright, vice president and general manager for Johnson Controls' hybrid-battery business. She has been lobbying Washington for a national effort to establish research labs and manufacturing technology to make the U.S. a battery-manufacturing leader.

It would be more of rebirth of an industry than one started from scratch. Key components needed in hybrid and electric vehicles -- including the battery, electric motor and specialized electronics -- were originally developed in the U.S., Ms. Wright says. Now nearly all of them come from Asia.

"It's our punishment for inventing this stuff and allowing manufacturing to go somewhere else," she says.[/quote307604734a]


24-09-2008 22:49:40

Fed Resists Pressure to Cut Rates

[quoted8f19410b4]The Federal Reserve resisted Wall Street pressure to cut interest rates, even as deep fears continued to hang over financial markets.

The central bank's policy committee, in its first unanimous vote since last September, decided to leave the federal-funds rate, at which banks lend to each other overnight, unchanged at 2%. The Fed's stance suggests little interest in fighting the financial crisis with more interest-rate cuts.
[fed funds]

Still, the central bank said in a statement issued after the meeting that it would watch economic and financial developments "carefully" and "act as needed," an indication that it isn't closing the door to lower rates. While the Fed said that financial-market strains had "increased significantly," it indicated concern about the risks of both weaker growth and higher inflation.

The decision to leave rates unchanged gives the Fed more time to gauge the impact of the latest round of financial turmoil on the overall economy. It is nervously watching markets and other troubled firms for signs of a tightening of credit, which would hit borrowers and restrain economic growth.

Since last September, the Fed has cut interest rates sharply to try to cushion the economy from a downturn. It also has orchestrated the broadest expansion of its lending programs for financial institutions since the Great Depression, taking even more steps over the weekend. Now, most Fed officials are hoping that its lending programs will ease the strains in the financial markets.

The Fed "continues to indicate that the actions already taken should eventually help to promote moderate economic growth," said Morgan Stanley economist David Greenlaw in a note to clients.
[Wall Street traders reacted after the Fed left interest rates unchanged.]

Associated Press

Officials also fear that further interest-rate cuts would have little effect on the credit crisis. And they are acutely aware of the risks of lowering rates too much, even at a time of economic weakness. Some critics say the Fed helped fuel the current crisis by pushing rates down to 1% earlier this decade and keeping them there, sparking an unsustainable housing boom. Fed officials now insist that they must avoid keeping rates too low for too long and creating more problems down the road.

The Fed's decision to keep rates on hold Tuesday came amid extraordinary tension in financial markets, just days after government officials spurned Wall Street pleas to bail out troubled Wall Street investment banks.

As WSJ's Sudeep Reddy reports, the Fed left interest rates unchanged, despite market expectations. Their decision sent a clear message that the government feels lower interest rates are not the answer to this financial crisis. (Sept. 16)

As Fed policy makers met, worries about American International Group Inc. swirled, with markets hoping that the insurance titan's failure could be averted. After the Fed meeting, Chairman Ben Bernanke went to the White House to discuss the crisis with President George W. Bush and other top government officials.

Timothy Geithner, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, skipped the Fed meeting -- leaving another official to vote in his place -- so he could manage the crisis from his Lower Manhattan office.

Stocks initially fell after the Fed decision, but turned higher by the end of the day. The Dow Jones industrial average gained 141.51 points, or 1.3%, to close at 11059.02. The market fell more than 500 points, or 4.4%, on Monday.

For months, Fed officials have been expecting economic growth to weaken later this year. In their statement Tuesday, they acknowledged a weakening job market and said that tight credit conditions, the housing-sector contraction and slowing export growth are likely to weigh on growth "over the next few quarters."
Real Time Economics

li Read the latest news and analysis on the economy at WSJ.com's Real Time Economics blog.
li Geithner Skips Meeting to Stay in New York
li End of Dissent Fisher Joins the Majority

The Fed's policy committee, which expects inflation to moderate later this year and next year, downgraded some of its inflation worries since August, but warned that the inflation outlook "remains highly uncertain." Before the meeting, government data showed that consumer prices declined in August for the first time in almost two years.

Once the Fed lowered its rate target to 2% in April, officials questioned whether further easing would help much. Key consumer rates, such as mortgages, stopped responding to Fed cuts, because of overall stress in credit markets. Some feared that an easing policy would simply spur inflation problems in the long run.

The Fed's next move had been expected to be a rate increase. But the possibility of rate cuts came back on the table -- with futures markets putting strong odds on a cut Tuesday -- after a dramatic 10 days that threatened to topple the U.S. financial sector and cause deeper damage to the U.S. economy. The Fed's statement -- equally balancing growth and inflation concerns -- indicates "the next move can be up or down," said Tom Gallagher, an analyst at ISI Group. A rate cut is on the table, "but not as prominently placed as everybody expected."
Question of the Day

Vote What should the Fed's next rate move be?

In a rapid-fire series of events in recent weeks, officials have been forced to decide quickly which firms need to be saved to ensure the continued functioning of the financial system, and which ones could fail without disastrous consequences for the markets and the broader economy.

View Slideshow
Associated Press

An electronic display in Times Square relays the news of the Fed.

Over the weekend, Fed and Treasury officials pushed for the sale of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., but the nation's fourth-largest investment bank ultimately filed for bankruptcy protection. The government, which put up $29 billion to facilitate J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.'s purchase of Bear Stearns Cos. in March, this time rejected requests for taxpayer funds to help secure a sale.

At the same time, the struggling Merrill Lynch & Co. investment bank sold itself to Bank of America Corp. in a rushed weekend transaction. The series of moves, combined with fears surrounding insurance titan AIG, rocked global financial markets.

The weekend before, top Fed officials helped coordinate the takeover of mortgage titans Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The government-chartered firms, which own or guarantee half of all U.S. mortgages, had faced the prospect of curbing lending for home loans at a time when the housing market continues to weaken. Now that they are under direct government control, mortgage rates have eased.

The housing turmoil sparked a global financial crisis in August 2007, when banks, fearing exposure to other firms with bad mortgage debt, grew reluctant to lend. The resulting credit crisis forced the Fed and other central banks to respond with massive cash injections into financial markets, and lending programs to ease strained conditions.[/quoted8f19410b4]


25-09-2008 04:56:52

Might be too late but you asked too last minute.

The Japan Lesson U.S. Must Own Up to Its Bank Crisis
By Justin Lahart
15 September 2008
The Wall Street Journal

When Japan was mired in economic crisis, the U.S. urged it to take decisive action to deal with its ailing banks. Japan didn't follow the advice and the crisis dragged on for years. Now, it is the U.S. that is mired in crisis and facing the prospect of swallowing the bitter medicine it once proffered.

Japan's stock-market bubble began rapidly deflating in 1990 and its property bubble followed suit shortly afterward. Many borrowers were unable to make payments on their debt and bad loans piled up on bank balance sheets. A long period of lackluster economic growth made a tough situation worse. With the financial system saddled with bad debts, Japan desperately needed its banks to acknowledge the severity of their problems and for some banks to shut their doors. But the banks, unwilling to take steps that might render them insolvent, refused to acknowledge their problems, extending the crisis.

"One of the lessons we took from Japan was the hesitation and refusal to own up to the problem was a disaster," says University of Chicago Graduate School of Business economist Anil Kashyap.

U.S. financial firms, too, have struggled with owning up to the extent of their credit losses, partly because those losses are a moving target. A year ago, Bear Stearns Cos. was reluctant to sell mortgage-related credit at a loss. That decision came back to haunt the firm as declining home prices continued to pummel mortgages, and Bear ended up in a government-backed fire sale to J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. Meanwhile, Merrill Lynch & Co. Chief Executive John Thain said in a January interview that the firm's troubles were "for the most part behind us" -- but in July the firm agreed to sell more than $30 billion in mortgage-related assets at a large loss.

Still, U.S. financial firms have been much quicker to acknowledge losses than their Japanese counterparts were. While the slicing and dicing of mortgages into tradable securities played a part in the mortgage mess, accounting rules make it difficult for firms to ignore losses on those securities, says Princeton University economist Hyun Song Shin. In contrast, by continuing to extend credit to bad borrowers, Japanese banks were able to put off recognizing the extent of their debt problems.

"The denial strategy is harder to pull off -- it will catch up to you in the accounting," says Mr. Shin. "That's one of the more encouraging and hopeful signs in the U.S."

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the two giant mortgage companies that the U.S. government seized a week ago, operated under rules that made the extent of their woes much more difficult to assess. But Treasury officials took a tougher line getting Fannie and Freddie to own up to their problems than Japan's Ministry of Finance did with ailing Japanese banks. Just as Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has been intent on not repeating the Fed's Depression-era mistakes, Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson is intent on not repeating Japan's mistakes in the 1990s, says Brad DeLong, an economic historian at the University of California at Berkeley.

One last problem the current U.S. situation shares with Japan in the 1990s may be a financial sector that is far larger than it should be. "If you have an unsustainable lending boom, then by definition the lending has to shrink," says Adam Posen, a deputy director at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington.

In Japan, that didn't happen. Rather than failing, troubled banks merged with healthier ones. But even though the combined bank would often end up with branches that were within steps of one another, few bank workers lost their jobs. Mr. Posen worries that concerns about the systemic risk to the financial system will prevent the U.S. from allowing enough firms to shut their doors to make the necessary capacity cuts.

In that regard, the tougher line with Wall Street that U.S. officials took over the weekend is encouraging. Refusing to financially backstop a takeover of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. with government money, as they did for J.P. Morgan's hasty acquisition of Bear Stearns, they showed they were far more willing to let a troubled firm fail than their Japanese counterparts were. Also, many financial firms have already begun cutting operations in a way Japanese banks balked at.

But while the U.S. has been decisive where Japan was not, it is worth remembering there was a reason Japan was hesitant to deal with its problems. Recognizing the financial sector's problems quickly increases the possibility of a run for the exits that could seize up the credit markets, putting the overall economy at greater risk. Quickly shrinking the financial sector could have a social cost, as well, putting tens of thousands of people out of work. Where will they go?


25-09-2008 06:30:30

Thank you both a ton. I'm just going to do it tonight for a late grade. But I may PM one or both of you later since we are supposed to get a weekly assignment using it. Once again, thanks a lot!


25-09-2008 09:43:31

Dude, this teacher hasn't announced to the class how to get these articles?

Is there a class of 20-300 students posting random message boards trying to get WSJ articles?


25-09-2008 09:57:03

No, I'm sure you were supposed to sign up for the 10 week $30 WSJ sub, but OP didn't do it.


25-09-2008 10:32:28

Oh yeah. oops

I guess it's still cheaper than a textbook. shrug


25-09-2008 10:44:20

If ur professor made u read it, it's suppose to be packaged with the textbook. Mine came with a 15 week sub.(both print and online)


25-09-2008 10:46:02

Who says it's supposed to be packaged with a textbook if it's required? For my econ class, we were required to get the 10 week sub that Doyl mentioned.


25-09-2008 10:52:53

I guess its just my school then, most professors for the intro econ class made us read it. Many professors use different books and they'll came with the sub.


25-09-2008 12:16:36

I bought my books online to save money, and am splitting most of them with another person. We were supposed to subscribe to it, but I figured why spend the money if I didn't have to. I'm poor enough as it is, $30 can feed me for a week or 2 which is more important.


25-09-2008 13:15:15

Many libraries (public/college/university) have online magazine subscriptions which you can access either from within the library, or at home via VPN.


25-09-2008 16:29:00

Yeah don't PM me every week for a wsj article, I'm not THAT helpful. You should be able to get the articles through your library.


25-09-2008 16:59:55

yea me too. I rarely come to this site as it is.


25-09-2008 19:59:44

We get free Wall Street Journals at the Kelley School of Business.


25-09-2008 20:18:10

Most WSJ articles that are at least a few hours old can be accessed for free through Google news. Just use wsj.com to find the headline of the article, search for that it in google news and most times it'll link you to the full article, not the preview.


01-10-2008 07:36:58

If anyone wants to save me a trip to the library... the articles I need for this week are...

Wall Street's Crisis Hurts Companies Big and Small
by Rebecca Smith, Timothy Aeppel, John Hechinger, Alex Roth and Ben Casselman
Sep 18, 2008
Page B1

Honda's Flexible Plants Provide Edge
by Kate Linebaugh
Sep 23, 2008
Page B1

Crude Calculations
by David Simchi-Levi, Derek Nelson, Narendra Mulani and Jonathan Wright
Sep 22, 2008
Page R8

Thanks to those who have helped so far!


01-10-2008 07:48:51

Or you should just do your own work?


01-10-2008 08:00:13

no - go to the library; that's part of the education. Or, since every university in the world subscribes to LexisNexis you could get them online that way.