Doomsday: December 21st, 2012?

I did a little search and didn't come up with anyone posting about this, which surprised me since it seems like a popular subject these days.

The whole thing started with the Mayan/Aztec calendar that literally stops on December 21st, 2012. The "Long Count" of this calendar has been counting down days since August 11th, 3114 BC. Big deal, some calendar from 7,000 years ago is running out you say, but that's not all.

[On a side note, you should know that the calendar has accurately predicted every solar and lunar eclipse we've had since it's day of creation]

Scientists can keep track of "solar cycles" in which solar flares go from being weak to strong. The last time solar flares were at their "maximum" was 2001. The next date being somewhere in late 2012, said to be 12/21/2012.

Scientists have also observed that on this day, that out solar system is going to intersect with the galactic plane. Think of it like a pizza. Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the pizza, never really able to see the bottom. The plate and pizza are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way pizza from the South.
http//www.viewzone.com/endtime.demo.jpg[" alt=""/imgee9627d079]

So, do you think we're done for?


[size=7ee9627d079]Most of this information was found [url==http//www.viewzone.com/endtime.html]here[=http//www.viewzone.com/endtime.html]here[/url] if you would like to read up on it further.[/sizeee9627d079]

God I hope so. I've had more than enough.

No.

pnaa,

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=76499[]http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=76499

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=67413[]http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=67413

Well I did find those two links while I was looking, however I don't think they are exactly of this topic. There are many myths and other theories of different days in 2012, a lot of people believe different things. In that one thread everyone is talking about 12/12/12.... so I figured this exact date needed it's own thread....

However, if I'm mistaken, lock/delete

(damnit I did it again)

http//www.giagia.co.uk/2008/01/23/apacalympics-2012/[]http//www.giagia.co.uk/2008/01/23/apacalympics-2012/
http//www.universetoday.com/2008/05/19/no-doomsday-in-2012/[]http//www.universetoday.com/2008/05/19/no-doomsday-in-2012/
I prefer it when people use science and reason instead of fabrication. I'm guessing that a real scientist/astronomer would have a field day with the some of the things said in that page you linked to (just looking at that site should tell you that you're dealing with wackos). The writer of the article can't even do a spell check.

The whole 2012 thing is complete BS. Much like the 1999 Nostradamus prophecy.

Hmm... new discoveries everyday. If God gives us life we will all see what 12/12/12 brings

http/" alt=""/img505.imageshack.us/img="505/8960/picardib0.jpg[" alt=""/img707e1eb1f6]

lol

[quote5f642a11a4="adylisa"]Hmm... new discoveries everyday. If God gives us life we will all see what 12/12/12 brings[/quote5f642a11a4]

It's 12/21/12


I'm really not saying I believe it all, but I heard about it on Hard Drive XL and since then everyone I've told about it has said "Oh yeah, I've heard of that"....

The facts seem a little shaky, I mean you can't predict the exact DAY solar energy will be at it's peak... I guess only time will tell

pnaa?

[quotea3c9f8ed1e="sadagtb"]Well I did find those two links while I was looking, however I don't think they are exactly of this topic. [/quotea3c9f8ed1e]


hahaha, foaf's thread was about this exact thing, how is it not exactly of this topic. Title 2012

Body So do you think anything catastrophic is going to happen?


Sounds like it's of this topic lol

Don't you guys really think that if this 2012 thing was serious enough that there would be top scientists discussing it all the time?

All people are doing is taking the Ancient Mayan (I think it was them) calender and adding to it. That calender ends in 2012 but it also begins a new calender.

Well I think there's a lot of shit going on that top scientists are discussing that they just can't let the public know because it would cause mass hysteria. Not saying this is one of them, but for instance, if a meteor were to hit the earth next month, we absolutely would not know about it till it were just about to happen.

[quote2dc91139c6="TravMan162"]Well I think there's a lot of shit going on that top scientists are discussing that they just can't let the public know because it would cause mass hysteria. Not saying this is one of them, but for instance, if a meteor were to hit the earth next month, we absolutely would not know about it till it were just about to happen.[/quote2dc91139c6]

Yeah true but they would have to let us know eventually because we would have to prepare for it.

That should be the real poll here.

In the case of a world-ending, cataclysmic event, would the government, (in the event that they KNEW what was about to go down,) let us know?

What's the point really? Why cause chaos before the event? Why not let us carry on our daily lives and not know anything was coming? Do you think the whole world would go home and pray? No, they wouldn't know what to do, and unfortunately, in some sort of weird act of insanity, we would cause utter mayhem as if it were going to solve something.

all of a sudden i'm craving some papa johns.

-dan



[quote0ef55b74cb]Scientists have also observed that on this day, that out solar system is going to intersect with the galactic plane. Think of it like a [b0ef55b74cb]pizza[/b0ef55b74cb]. Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the [b0ef55b74cb]pizza[/b0ef55b74cb], never really able to see the bottom. The plate and [b0ef55b74cb]pizza[/b0ef55b74cb] are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way [b0ef55b74cb]pizza[/b0ef55b74cb] from the South. [/quote0ef55b74cb]

haha me too. and high school cheerleaders.

-josh

[quote2dccf2b317="DRay9911"]all of a sudden i'm craving some papa johns.

-dan



[quote2dccf2b317]Scientists have also observed that on this day, that out solar system is going to intersect with the galactic plane. Think of it like a [b2dccf2b317]pizza[/b2dccf2b317]. Prior to December 2012 we have been drifting on the top of the [b2dccf2b317]pizza[/b2dccf2b317], never really able to see the bottom. The plate and [b2dccf2b317]pizza[/b2dccf2b317] are not parallel. They are moving at different angles. We've been drifting down, down, down... and on December 21st, 2012, we will be exactly level with the crust -- forming an "x" at the Galactic Equator where galactic gravity is the strongest. After 2012, if we are still here, we will be passing through the bottom zone, viewing the Milky Way [b2dccf2b317]pizza[/b2dccf2b317] from the South. [/quote2dccf2b317][/quote2dccf2b317]

would it be weird if I said ditto?

Dray always has the best one-liners lol I'd actually love some Dion's (local pizza place), and some hot college chicks -D

[quote56871fbd63="TravMan162"][quote56871fbd63="sadagtb"]Well I did find those two links while I was looking, however I don't think they are exactly of this topic. [/quote56871fbd63]


hahaha, foaf's thread was about this exact thing, how is it not exactly of this topic. Title 2012

Body So do you think anything catastrophic is going to happen?


Sounds like it's of this topic lol[/quote56871fbd63]
My view has changed quite a bit, so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.

[quote309c5e7a53="TFOAF"]so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.[/quote309c5e7a53]

Sounds like a great reason to post in it then

[quotedeaee5b005="CollidgeGraduit"][quotedeaee5b005="TFOAF"]so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.[/quotedeaee5b005]

Sounds like a great reason to post in it then[/quotedeaee5b005]

Did you read the "Context clues"?

He was replying to the post about HIS topic on 2012 and stating that he feels a different way about it. I think he wanted to iterate the idea that he no longer believes in it, or at least not like he used to.

By saying that he doesn't have a comment anymore means that he does not really have an opinion towards 2012 because his view changed.

<3

[quoteed7664ee9c="CollidgeGraduit"][quoteed7664ee9c="TFOAF"]so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.[/quoteed7664ee9c]

Sounds like a great reason to post in it then[/quoteed7664ee9c]

His neighbor told him to, lol

[quoteef4a3f071c="CollidgeGraduit"][quoteef4a3f071c="TFOAF"]so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.[/quoteef4a3f071c]

Sounds like a great reason to post in it then[/quoteef4a3f071c]

That made me chuckle... http//forum.freeipodguide.com//images/foafy.jpg[" alt=""/imgef4a3f071c]


I agree with a lot of the posts here, on a few accounts. I do think that top scientists would probably withhold information (like a big ass comet, for example) from the public so nobody went crazy. However I do think a google search on 12/21/12 would yield something a little more "professional" if it were a big concern to anyone. The only "real" thing that has been made to the public is the history channel special, which I didn't see nor can I find information about haha.

Who knows when it will end, but I mean it's 4.5 billion years old, it's bound to be ending sometime in the near future

in the near future? Really?


no way. The world is not going to end that way. Guarentee.

[quotef578b283c7="sadagtb"][quotef578b283c7="CollidgeGraduit"][quotef578b283c7="TFOAF"]so I really don't have a comment on this topic anymore.[/quotef578b283c7]

Sounds like a great reason to post in it then[/quotef578b283c7]

That made me chuckle... http//forum.freeipodguide.com//images/foafy.jpg[" alt=""/imgf578b283c7]


I agree with a lot of the posts here, on a few accounts. I do think that top scientists would probably withhold information (like a big ass comet, for example) from the public so nobody went crazy. However I do think a google search on 12/21/12 would yield something a little more "professional" if it were a big concern to anyone. The only "real" thing that has been made to the public is the history channel special, which I didn't see nor can I find information about haha.

Who knows when it will end, but I mean it's 4.5 billion years old, it's bound to be ending sometime in the near future[/quotef578b283c7]

welcome back, kid. you missed us again, huh?

Remember me? Be scared.

[quote40573598b1="zr2152"]in the near future? Really?


no way. The world is not going to end that way. Guarentee.[/quote40573598b1]

Do you not think the world will ever end, or do you just think it won't end by solar flares and/or the sun destroying it?

I guess it might depend on your religious beliefs, God once destroyed the world with rain, and promised he would not do that again. People say it will be fire... which would explain the sun destroying it. Not sure what I just said to be honest.

The world will end. All planets end, all stars end, everything ends. It's a natural cycle, I don't think any cataclysmic event is going to "destroy the planet." I don't even know that that's possible.

However, at some point, humanity will be eradicated on THIS planet. Whether it be a meteor, the sun dying out, nuclear holocaust, some sort of alien invasion, sudden sterility in all humanity due to pollution, global warming, ice caps melting, colossal superstorms, some strange mind-altering disease, whatever........ Humanity will end. Whether we get out and inhabit another planet before this happens remains to be seen, but the world is not just going to "end." That doesn't even make feasible sense.

Also, how would the sun destroy the earth? It's not just going to create some new gravitational pull to drag us into it, nor will it somehow derail itself and crash into us. And even if it did, i'm not entirely convinced that a collision with the earth and sun would destroy the earth. Isn't the sun just a big pile of gas? I'm thinking it won't incinerate the earth. I could be wrong. I'm not a scientist, as you've noticed.

[quotec2e8104ba2="sadagtb"][quotec2e8104ba2="zr2152"]in the near future? Really?


no way. The world is not going to end that way. Guarentee.[/quotec2e8104ba2]

Do you not think the world will ever end, or do you just think it won't end by solar flares and/or the sun destroying it?

I guess it might depend on your religious beliefs, God once destroyed the world with rain, and promised he would not do that again. People say it will be fire... which would explain the sun destroying it. Not sure what I just said to be honest.[/quotec2e8104ba2]

Oh come on. Don't bring the god and the flood BS in here. When I saw you mention the earth being 4.5 billion years old I thought you were smarter than that.

[quotec2e8104ba2="TravMan162"]The world will end. All planets end, all stars end, everything ends. It's a natural cycle, I don't think any cataclysmic event is going to "destroy the planet." I don't even know that that's possible.

However, at some point, humanity will be eradicated on THIS planet. Whether it be a meteor, the sun dying out, nuclear holocaust, some sort of alien invasion, sudden sterility in all humanity due to pollution, global warming, ice caps melting, colossal superstorms, some strange mind-altering disease, whatever........ Humanity will end. Whether we get out and inhabit another planet before this happens remains to be seen, but the world is not just going to "end." That doesn't even make feasible sense.

Also, how would the sun destroy the earth? It's not just going to create some new gravitational pull to drag us into it, nor will it somehow derail itself and crash into us. And even if it did, i'm not entirely convinced that a collision with the earth and sun would destroy the earth. Isn't the sun just a big pile of gas? I'm thinking it won't incinerate the earth. I could be wrong. I'm not a scientist, as you've noticed.[/quotec2e8104ba2]

The world may end but that doesn't mean our species has to. If we would all stop and realize that we are ONE and we don't need to start wars with each other and fight but rather put our resources toward OUR FUCKING RACE and EXPLORE FUCKING SPACE and maybe advance our technology to the point where we can move on from earth - then maybe we have a chance.

But no, the maturity of our races hasn't evolved to that point yet and it makes me sick sometimes. I hate racism. I hate religion that separates us. I'm just sad that this is what we are. We are all one. When the fuck will we realize this?

Sorry, I just had a really intense experience this morning and I'm a little on the edge here.

[quotec7d801f7f0="J4320"][quotec7d801f7f0="sadagtb"][quotec7d801f7f0="zr2152"]in the near future? Really?


no way. The world is not going to end that way. Guarentee.[/quotec7d801f7f0]

Do you not think the world will ever end, or do you just think it won't end by solar flares and/or the sun destroying it?

I guess it might depend on your religious beliefs, God once destroyed the world with rain, and promised he would not do that again. People say it will be fire... which would explain the sun destroying it. Not sure what I just said to be honest.[/quotec7d801f7f0]

Oh come on. Don't bring the god and the flood BS in here. When I saw you mention the earth being 4.5 billion years old I thought you were smarter than that.[/quotec7d801f7f0]

It really doesn't have to do with "smarts", but just beliefs. There are millions of people who firmly believe God is going to come and only the "saved" will live, yadda yadda. I don't know how much of that I do believe, but I'm just saying a lot of people believe that. That's why I said "depending on your religious beliefs", and didn't just start out by stating it as a fact. I think trav there has a good point, that somehow or another because of some force humanity will die out and the earth will come to an end. If you think about it happening with solar flares however, or even the ice caps or a meteor then yes, I think the world could be here one day and gone the next. If a world-ending meteor slammed into this planet, it's pretty safe to say it wouldn't take a few days, and that the world would just suddenly "end".

Beliefs are unsupported and unintelligent and I think less of anyone who is a Christian. There. I said it. I'm sick of having to put up with religious bullshit. I'm forced to go to church every week and I get to watch them chant like morons completely out of there minds for 45 minutes then I get to listen to a bunch of stupid bullshit for another 2 hours. Then I get yelled at by my parents for not being a believer. Fuck this.

I'm sorry that I got on your ass about what you said but I am just pretty pissed off right now about religious intolerance because I just experienced a lot of it this morning. I think less of people with superstitious beliefs and I'm not afraid to say it anymore.

it's not physically possible for the world to just cease to exist suddenly. you're making it seem like it's just going to vanish into thin air somehow. A planet can die, the core can burn out and cease to power a planet, but as far as a planet just disappearing? No f'ing way.

As far as the religion aspect of it goes? From a science standpoint, we are all a collection of atoms, molecules and energy.

So are dogs.

So are plants. Do you think the plants believe in god? Do you think your cat "whiskers" is really concerned about god "coming and saving the believers?" Gtfo. Do you think the Buddhists believe in this flood? Is god really going to send Buddhists to hell because they don't believe in him?

Come on now.

[quotec972de1e02="TravMan162"]it's not physically possible for the world to just cease to exist suddenly. you're making it seem like it's just going to vanish into thin air somehow. A planet can die, the core can burn out and cease to power a planet, but as far as a planet just disappearing? No f'ing way.

As far as the religion aspect of it goes? From a science standpoint, we are all a collection of atoms, molecules and energy.

So are dogs.

So are plants. Do you think the plants believe in god? Do you think your cat "whiskers" is really concerned about god "coming and saving the believers?" Gtfo. Do you think the Buddhists believe in this flood? Is god really going to send Buddhists to hell because they don't believe in him?

Come on now.[/quotec972de1e02]
Not bringing religion into this subject, or my own opinion; however, something can just [ic972de1e02]end[/ic972de1e02]. The Earth was created, correct? Alright, so it can disappear anytime too, regardless of "scientific evidence."

All animals have a sixth sense. Plants too.

Who knows what's beyond this universe. Maybe it [if3a34e2d94]could[/if3a34e2d94] end in a snap of the finger. Maybe we are destroying universes that are 6534069734 tinier than atoms. Maybe a black hole could destroy our whole solar system just like that.

As for FOAF talking about a sixth sense, it depends on what animal and what plant. Sure some animals have different senses. Sharks can sense changes in electric current and etc. Different animals have different senses. Let's not go into the paranormal sixth sense BS based off of no evidence though.

[quote8dd4369805="J4320"]Who knows what's beyond this universe. Maybe it [i8dd4369805]could[/i8dd4369805] end in a snap of the finger. Maybe we are destroying universes that are 6534069734 tinier than atoms. Maybe a black hole could destroy our whole solar system just like that.

As for FOAF talking about a sixth sense, it depends on what animal and what plant. Sure some animals have different senses. Sharks can sense changes in electric current and etc. Different animals have different senses. Let's not go into the paranormal sixth sense BS based off of no evidence though.[/quote8dd4369805]

your mom sensed my horniness last night. does that mean she has a 6th sense?

[quoteeb44278328="J4320"]Beliefs are unsupported and unintelligent and I think less of anyone who is a Christian. There. I said it. I'm sick of having to put up with religious bullshit. I'm forced to go to church every week and I get to watch them chant like morons completely out of there minds for 45 minutes then I get to listen to a bunch of stupid bullshit for another 2 hours. Then I get yelled at by my parents for not being a believer. Fuck this.

I'm sorry that I got on your ass about what you said but I am just pretty pissed off right now about religious intolerance because I just experienced a lot of it this morning. I think less of people with superstitious beliefs and I'm not afraid to say it anymore.[/quoteeb44278328]

J4320,

I thought you were better than the last 2 posts you just made. I thought you had a lot more sense than that.

First off, you need to watch what you say around certain people on this forum. Yes you are entitled to your own opinion but the way you approached it here was the wrong way. Just because you have your own struggle with religion/parents/church, doesn't make it right for you to judge everyone here for their own beliefs.

I too was once devout creationist with no stand for evolution in any way whatsoever. Since I have become more educated and learned much more about certain topics, I have changed my views entirely on many things. I am now a theistic evolutionist.

Secondly,

I have went from being totally supportive of the Christian church to not so supportive. The Church itself, has been caught up in the wrong teachings since the day the Vatican approved the current books in the Bible. The evangelical church (one that I am a member of) have a problem with being what I call "In your face bible slapping Christians".

I hate it.

This is the reason as to why I do not go to church anymore and have my OWN relationship with God. Yes I have my struggles but to totally disregard faith and beliefs based on principles of a man that walked the Earth is just totally stubborn IMO.

I love you to death J320 but I feel as though your struggles that you have had as an adolescent with religion and the church (2 TOTALLY separate things I might add) have made you blind from becoming more educated on the topics you are struggling with.

When you go to college, make sure you take a Theology class. I took one last year and the things I learned in that classroom totally changed my views about Christianity and my beliefs as a Christian.


There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.

<3

You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [i034d0e29d1]why[/i034d0e29d1] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell. He is not a god of love. In fact, from stories and descriptions of him in the Bible, I think he has more angry human in him than me.

There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."

I almost regret saying what I said earlier but it's the truth. It's not that I think I'm better than someone if I find out that they're a Christian, I actually just feel sort of disappointed in them.

[quotece0bb3cd27="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [ice0bb3cd27]why[/ice0bb3cd27] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[bce0bb3cd27]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/bce0bb3cd27]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quotece0bb3cd27]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education. From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?


EDIT


And why do you feel disappointed in them? Because they have developed their own moral sense of belonging and understanding of the world around them rather than someone choosing that for them? It takes much more faith to be an Atheist rather than a Christian.

I think that you might be a Agnostic.

[quote47713341ee="zr2152"]When you go to college, make sure you take a Theology class. I took one last year and the things I learned in that classroom totally changed my views about Christianity and my beliefs as a Christian.


There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.[quote47713341ee="zr2152"][quote47713341ee="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [i47713341ee]why[/i47713341ee] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[b47713341ee]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/b47713341ee]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quote47713341ee]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[b47713341ee]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/b47713341ee] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quote47713341ee]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views.

<3[/quote47713341ee]

Was that theology class at the Christian college you go to? That sounds kind of biased to me but whatever. A theology class wouldn't make me a theological person if that's what you're implying. But sure, it would be an interesting class to take for the knowledge.

[quote47713341ee="zr215J"]
There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.
<3[/quote47713341ee]

I don't have any beliefs and I am not afraid to criticize others who believe in imaginary friends. Sorry. I'm not trying to be mean to you either. I think you're cool too. Religion is just something that I highly oppose.

[quote47713341ee="zr2152"][quote47713341ee="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [i47713341ee]why[/i47713341ee] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[b47713341ee]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/b47713341ee]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quote47713341ee]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[b47713341ee]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/b47713341ee] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quote47713341ee]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture.

[quote4b95b4b1fb="J4320"]I almost regret saying what I said earlier but it's the truth. It's not that I think I'm better than someone if I find out that they're a Christian, I actually just feel sort of disappointed in them.[/quote4b95b4b1fb]


Ah the rage. Let me first make myself clear when I say I have no problem with people who do not believe in God, nor do I EVER push anything on anyone. Everyone is welcome to believe in what they want. I too was forced to go to church for 15 years, every single Sunday for 1 - 2 hours. I moved out of state and have only been a handful of times since then in the past three years, so I'm no "nut". I do believe in God, I do believe there is a greater force, because I have seen it with my own eyes. I am 100% certain God is real. I have read a lot of "miracle" stories and "God is in my life" stories but always figured them to be fabricated until recently. For you to be disappointed in someone for believing in God is plain old ignorant. If I find someone who doesn't believe, I don't think anything more of less because that is what they want. There is NO proof God does not exist, and NO proof he does. HOWEVER, there are a lot of stories were people have say they have seen God, and God has spoken to them. Also there are people with stories how God has been in their life, which is not proof but it's something. For you to disregard any form of religion and play it off as fantasy is absolutely ridiculous as there is no proof either way. Believe what you want but don't put others down for what they believe. I agree with trev, I too thought you were a bit more of a decent person for that. You did attempt to retract your previous post (before the one I quoted) but then again in your last post you stated you think less of Christians. Do your realize how outnumbered you are on people thinking less of you for not believing? I'm not one of them, but it's 1,000's to 1.

EDIT Looks like it took me too long to type that. Back on topic maybe as to avoid a http//i.pbase.com/v3/82/429782/1/45214471.lock.gif[" alt=""/img4b95b4b1fb]

[quotec10b9feeb4="sadagtb"][quotec10b9feeb4="J4320"]I almost regret saying what I said earlier but it's the truth. It's not that I think I'm better than someone if I find out that they're a Christian, I actually just feel sort of disappointed in them.[/quotec10b9feeb4]


Ah the rage. Let me first make myself clear when I say I have no problem with people who do not believe in God, nor do I EVER push anything on anyone. Everyone is welcome to believe in what they want. I too was forced to go to church for 15 years, every single Sunday for 1 - 2 hours. I moved out of state and have only been a handful of times since then in the past three years, so I'm no "nut". I do believe in God, I do believe there is a greater force, because I have seen it with my own eyes. I am 100% certain God is real. I have read a lot of "miracle" stories and "God is in my life" stories but always figured them to be fabricated until recently. For you to be disappointed in someone for believing in God is plain old ignorant. If I find someone who doesn't believe, I don't think anything more of less because that is what they want. There is NO proof God does not exist, and NO proof he does. HOWEVER, there are a lot of stories were people have say they have seen God, and God has spoken to them. Also there are people with stories how God has been in their life, which is not proof but it's something. For you to disregard any form of religion and play it off as fantasy is absolutely ridiculous as there is no proof either way. Believe what you want but don't put others down for what they believe. I agree with trev, I too thought you were a bit more of a decent person for that. You did attempt to retract your previous post (before the one I quoted) but then again in your last post you stated you think less of Christians. Do your realize how outnumbered you are on people thinking less of you for not believing? I'm not one of them, but it's 1,000's to 1.

EDIT Looks like it took me too long to type that. Back on topic maybe as to avoid a http//i.pbase.com/v3/82/429782/1/45214471.lock.gif[" alt=""/imgc10b9feeb4][/quotec10b9feeb4]

Yeah and the majority is always correct, right? roll It's not my fault that people are insecure and they desperately cling onto imaginary friends. People attribute their "miracles" to whatever the fuck they want. If I desperately believed in a magical fairy then when seemingly impossible miracles happened I would automatically point to the fairy.

There is no difference between the god you believe in and my magical fairy. They're both made up by man.

Not to interrupt you guys' conversation, but I just wanted to pipe in and say that the 14 precepts is probably the coolest set of, dare I say "laws" of any religion out there. They sort of resemble the 10 Commandments in their structure, but instead of centering around the narcissistic will of the Christian god, they provide some sort of structure to maintain a sensible, productive and morally sound personal life without forcing you into the confines of a specific religion per say, and that exact fact is the Number 1 precept itself.

That is what religion should be. It should be something that you go to and fall back on to become a better person. It shouldn't be this reign of fear that forces you to be a better person just to avoid the consequences.

And I apologize to those that feel my calling the Christian God "narcissistic" is inappropriate, but I just feel as though, (as J4 said before,) a loving god should not be as spiteful, vengeful and sick to make up a place of unspeakable torture and pain just because you didn't believe in him. I am generally a really good person and I'm always trying to do the right thing, correct my mistakes and look out for other people, but I don't believe in the Christian God. I deserve to burn for that? No.

I mean, the bible doesn't make god out to be as "loving and forgiving" as Christians claim him to be, specifically the Old Testament. The Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Plagues, were ultimately because he was pissed about people acting like idiots.

Believe what you want to believe, I respect everyone's views and if you believe Christianity makes you a better person, or will reward you in the next life, that's fine, but to speak to what ZR said a few posts back, the reason we come off as so intolerant to Christians is because we've spent most of our independent lives having our opinions be shit on as well.

I can't speak for J4, but I can say that I personally don't have anything against people for believing in what they believe in, but I would appreciate it if I was given the same courtesy on an everyday basis. It seems like every time I say "I don't believe in Christian God," the room goes silent, save the crickets chirping in the corner. It's unbelievable.

Oh wow.............

Who's to say? To be honest I hadn't thought about God in about a year until I watched a movie called "Flywheel". After that I did think about God, and I prayed which I hadn't done in a LONG time, and don't tell me what happened with my life was some coincidence when nothing like it has happened before. I don't have any imaginary friends, that's bogus. Two occasions since that happened have made my faith stronger. It's nothing major, nothing life changing, just two little things that answered my prays that make me believe. I honestly feel bad for you. I think everyone needs God in their lives, and people without Him I have to pity. Take offense, I hope you do.

Trav I agree with a big part of your post. I think that big religions really are a downfall when trying to persuade a child to believe a certain way. I would go to church and ultimately be bored out of my mind, and when I asked questions probably get scared. I don't follow catholicism 100%. I believe there is a God who watches over us all, yes.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=glRAN_8CkvQ

[quotea3d618f572="J4320"][quotea3d618f572="sadagtb"][quotea3d618f572="J4320"]I almost regret saying what I said earlier but it's the truth. It's not that I think I'm better than someone if I find out that they're a Christian, I actually just feel sort of disappointed in them.[/quotea3d618f572]


Ah the rage. Let me first make myself clear when I say I have no problem with people who do not believe in God, nor do I EVER push anything on anyone. Everyone is welcome to believe in what they want. I too was forced to go to church for 15 years, every single Sunday for 1 - 2 hours. I moved out of state and have only been a handful of times since then in the past three years, so I'm no "nut". I do believe in God, I do believe there is a greater force, because I have seen it with my own eyes. I am 100% certain God is real. I have read a lot of "miracle" stories and "God is in my life" stories but always figured them to be fabricated until recently. For you to be disappointed in someone for believing in God is plain old ignorant. If I find someone who doesn't believe, I don't think anything more of less because that is what they want. There is NO proof God does not exist, and NO proof he does. HOWEVER, there are a lot of stories were people have say they have seen God, and God has spoken to them. Also there are people with stories how God has been in their life, which is not proof but it's something. For you to disregard any form of religion and play it off as fantasy is absolutely ridiculous as there is no proof either way. Believe what you want but don't put others down for what they believe. I agree with trev, I too thought you were a bit more of a decent person for that. You did attempt to retract your previous post (before the one I quoted) but then again in your last post you stated you think less of Christians. Do your realize how outnumbered you are on people thinking less of you for not believing? I'm not one of them, but it's 1,000's to 1.

EDIT Looks like it took me too long to type that. Back on topic maybe as to avoid a http//i.pbase.com/v3/82/429782/1/45214471.lock.gif[" alt=""/imga3d618f572][/quotea3d618f572]

Yeah and the majority is always correct, right? roll It's not my fault that people are insecure and they desperately cling onto imaginary friends. People attribute their "miracles" to whatever the fuck they want. If I desperately believed in a magical fairy then when seemingly impossible miracles happened I would automatically point to the fairy.

There is no difference between the god you believe in and my magical fairy. They're both made up by man.[/quotea3d618f572]

I thought I'd come in and share my views as well. I agree with J4320 on the basis that god is a man-made being and that the bible was written by man. I honestly cannot believe that people think that everything in that book is real. Just the other day I was talking to a friend of mine on the subject, and he is dead set on believing that the Earth is 4000 some years old. I mean come on, add that with burning bushes and boats that have 2 of every species.

I personally don't care what someone else believes in, but it's true that religion is setting mankind back. Look at all of these "holy wars" and religious scandals and see where they get us in life.

Also another thing my religious friend pointed out to me was that if your not christian, you go to hell- simple as that. Now who could be so ignorant as to believe that statement? That's just a scare tactic used by christians to convert others.

Believe what you want to believe, but I for one don't believe fairy tales.

[quote38a7384fbf="J4320"]http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=glRAN_8CkvQ[/quote38a7384fbf]

Hands down the lamest video I've ever seen.....


On a more.... devastating note....
Clicky[=http//www.broowaha.com/article.php?id=2953] Clicky

^ I'm sure someone with your thought process would have that opinion.

That's it; I probably shouldn't digg the hole any deeper. I knew there would be flak for the things I said and I can see how it's not going to change anyone's beliefs. So lets talk about 12-21-12 now I guess.

[quote5b91ab8925="J4320"]^ I'm sure someone with your thought process would have that opinion.[/quote5b91ab8925]

You mean the thought process I share with over 70% of other people on this Earth..... Yep.

[quote427c62d481="J4320"]

That's it; I probably shouldn't digg the hole any deeper. I knew there would be flak for the things I said and I can see how it's not going to change anyone's beliefs. .[/quote427c62d481]

i'm right there with you on this one. we've talked about this a few times I believe and it's good to know we're on the same wavelength as me. you might be a little angrier than me though P we'll call you "old testament god" and I'll be "new testament god."

I don't think you're digging a deep hole at all. This is a really interesting thing to discuss and this is a good place to do it. This forum pretty much says that as long as no one is offended, feel free to discuss, and this is a topic that doesn't get its due discussion time.

I do know that no one can convince the other to drop their beliefs on this matter. I find that odd. This is the one thing that people just cannot be persuaded on. Maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that was the intention all along. People need something that they will stand by, and if this is it, then maybe that's not such a bad thing.

[quotef30820b970]I don't think you're digging a deep hole at all. This is a really interesting thing to discuss and this is a good place to do it. This forum pretty much says that as long as no one is offended, feel free to discuss, and this is a topic that doesn't get its due discussion time. [/quotef30820b970]

I agree with that and don't see a reason for it to be locked, however I think he offended plenty of people by saying that he thinks less of people who are Christian and whatever else he said.

[quote027c4ec716="sadagtb"][quote027c4ec716="J4320"]^ I'm sure someone with your thought process would have that opinion.[/quote027c4ec716]

You mean the thought process I share with over 70% of other people on this Earth..... Yep.[/quote027c4ec716]

Are you a troll? Seriously. Do you honestly think that just because the majority of people believe in something it makes it true? Most people are very unintelligent. As George Carlin put it -

“Just think of how stupid the average person is, and then realize half of them are even stupider."

Haha I'm not saying that because 70% of people believe it it makes it right, I'm saying you were trying to "make fun" of my thought process like I'm some kind of idiot, but just realize by saying "your thought process" you are talking to 70% of people, that's all I meant.

And by Troll do you mean like the cute cuddly ones you play with as a kid or the big bad ones from World of Warcraft.

Okay dude. Give me 10 minutes of your time and watch this video -

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

Tell me what you think.

[quote720f9b81c9="J4320"][quote720f9b81c9="zr2152"]When you go to college, make sure you take a Theology class. I took one last year and the things I learned in that classroom totally changed my views about Christianity and my beliefs as a Christian.


There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.[quote720f9b81c9="zr2152"][quote720f9b81c9="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [i720f9b81c9]why[/i720f9b81c9] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[b720f9b81c9]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/b720f9b81c9]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quote720f9b81c9]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[b720f9b81c9]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/b720f9b81c9] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quote720f9b81c9]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views.

<3[/quote720f9b81c9]

Was that theology class at the Christian college you go to? That sounds kind of biased to me but whatever. A theology class wouldn't make me a theological person if that's what you're implying. But sure, it would be an interesting class to take for the knowledge.

[quote720f9b81c9="zr215J"]
There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.
<3[/quote720f9b81c9]

I don't have any beliefs and I am not afraid to criticize others who believe in imaginary friends. Sorry. I'm not trying to be mean to you either. I think you're cool too. Religion is just something that I highly oppose.

[quote720f9b81c9="zr2152"][quote720f9b81c9="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [i720f9b81c9]why[/i720f9b81c9] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[b720f9b81c9]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/b720f9b81c9]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quote720f9b81c9]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[b720f9b81c9]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/b720f9b81c9] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quote720f9b81c9]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture.[/quote720f9b81c9]



Yes and I know that and this is why i want to respect your opinions just like everyone's opinions.

And not, my Christian College is not biased, to an extent...lol

I go to one of the most liberal Christian colleges in the nation. Many people who take our bible/theology classes graduate as Atheists because they put all their faith in either creation or the stories of the bible.

I have learned that the stories in the bible are not factual but rather fictional in most ways. The message is what is important.

On another side note, THEOLOGY is not the study of Christianity but rather the study of the bible.

I think that you J, need to get out of the Christian teaching and learn what the Bible is truly about rather than what the church or your parents are teaching you.


That is my main point.

Ahmen to that! All you've been taught about "the bible" is whatever your "church" has taught you. I don't think it would be a bad idea to take a class or read some versus from the bible that might make you feel warm and tingly inside.... i'll watch the video in a minute, but we both know it's not going to change anyones beliefs

Ha, you know, when you actually start to think about deep stuff, you start to figure things out that the people who spend their whole life "accepting everything" and going along with the masses are going to flat out miss.

Guess what. Didn't the earth used to be flat?

Ha, remember the ol' geocentrism theory?

Oh yeah, 99% of the world believed that horsecrap.

Woah woah woah. Real quick before I read these posts. That last video that I posted has some dumb questions in it. Like the "eat my flesh and drink my blood" question and etc. I apologize, I didn't get through watching the whole video before I posted it. But still, some of them are good.

[quotee7385d98cf="J4320"]Woah woah woah. Real quick before I read these posts. That last video that I posted has some dumb questions in it. Like the "eat my flesh and drink my blood" question and etc. I apologize, I didn't get through watching the whole video before I posted it. But still, some of them are good.[/quotee7385d98cf]

LOL mine is the most important.

And Trav man, as for the world being flat? That whole Christopher Columbus thing is BS. Most people by then knew that the earth was round.

As for Copernicus proving to the Roman Catholic church that the sun did not revolve around the earth, that is a great example as to what I mean by not putting your money on everything the church teaches you but rather finding things out for yourself and becoming educated.

[quotec560a978b5="zr2152"][quotec560a978b5="J4320"][quotec560a978b5="zr2152"]When you go to college, make sure you take a Theology class. I took one last year and the things I learned in that classroom totally changed my views about Christianity and my beliefs as a Christian.


There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.[quotec560a978b5="zr2152"][quotec560a978b5="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [ic560a978b5]why[/ic560a978b5] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[bc560a978b5]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/bc560a978b5]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quotec560a978b5]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[bc560a978b5]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/bc560a978b5] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quotec560a978b5]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views.

<3[/quotec560a978b5]

Was that theology class at the Christian college you go to? That sounds kind of biased to me but whatever. A theology class wouldn't make me a theological person if that's what you're implying. But sure, it would be an interesting class to take for the knowledge.

[quotec560a978b5="zr215J"]
There I said it. Sometimes it seems as though you are not so open to other peoples beliefs but only rather your own. Don't be so critical.
<3[/quotec560a978b5]

I don't have any beliefs and I am not afraid to criticize others who believe in imaginary friends. Sorry. I'm not trying to be mean to you either. I think you're cool too. Religion is just something that I highly oppose.

[quotec560a978b5="zr2152"][quotec560a978b5="J4320"]You're mistaking me. I just expressed my anger with religious fanaticism and intolerance and talked about a current struggle.

That isn't [ic560a978b5]why[/ic560a978b5] I think less of someone who is a Christian (but I suppose it could be a reason - but then again I wouldn't want to generalize about every Christian in that manner. I am aware that not every Christian is a complete nut.). I think less of someone who is a Christian because of many different things I didn't list. Here are a few just off the top of my head -

- I think they are naive if they think that the Christian/Judaic/Islamic god of the Bible just happens to be the right god out of the thousands of others.
- If they agree with the logic the Bible presents then I also think they're naive.
- They are less open-minded which makes me think less of them --- this is probably the biggest reason.

[bc560a978b5]What kind of "God of love" creates a place for people to be tortured for eternity simply for not believing in him? It takes a sick mind to even think up a place like hell.
[/bc560a978b5]
There. What I said earlier was more of a rant than anything else.

That isn't to say that there is nothing to be learned from the Bible or Christianity. Jesus had a lot of cool teachings that I still remember in certain situations. Also, I like some Buddhist ideas. I pretty much live by a lot of the rules that are presented here (and most certainly the quote that I'm about to paste) ---

"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[=http//buddhism.kalachakranet.org/resources/14_precepts.html]"Do not think the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice nonattachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout your entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times."[/quotec560a978b5]


I agree with most of your points and the main reason for myself having a problem with a lot of Christians AND the CHURCH is their narrow minds. I have went from being a narrow minded Christian to a more open minded one )

[bc560a978b5]The only problem that I have with your post is the section that I have bolded above. That my friend is something you will learn with education.[/bc560a978b5] From what I got from my theology class is that hell mentioned through out the Bible is more of a place of cleansing. I also believe that there are 2 hells mentioned in the bible but in the Hebrew words mean 2 different things. That is another problem that I have with Christians and the Church is that many of them forget that the Bible was written in a totally different language and that our translation of it is only somewhat close to what the words actually mean.

It is funny though because my Theology professor at a strict Christian College believes that EVERYONE goes to Heaven, no matter what. I guess SHE is a top Theologian and extremely well known. Pretty interesting eh?[/quotec560a978b5]

Look, I don't want to waste my life researching different interpretations of a book made by a bunch of superstitious people 2,000+ years ago. I know there are different translations and interpretations. People have always interpreted the Bible differently to suit their own views. It eventually comes to the point where you just have to step back from it and look at the bigger picture.[/quotec560a978b5]



Yes and I know that and this is why i want to respect your opinions just like everyone's opinions.

And not, my Christian College is not biased, to an extent...lol

I go to one of the most liberal Christian colleges in the nation. Many people who take our bible/theology classes graduate as Atheists because they put all their faith in either creation or the stories of the bible.

I have learned that the stories in the bible are not factual but rather fictional in most ways. The message is what is important.

On another side note, THEOLOGY is not the study of Christianity but rather the study of the bible.

I think that you J, need to get out of the Christian teaching and learn what the Bible is truly about rather than what the church or your parents are teaching you.


That is my main point.[/quotec560a978b5]

Theology is the study of religion and its influences. It's not just the study of the Bible.

And please, I've been in a Christian school for 11 years. I know what the Bible is about. It's about love. That doesn't make it true though. And very few people get the message. [ic560a978b5]And[/ic560a978b5] I still think the god of the Bible is an asshole.

My views on religion (primarily Christianity) have changed quite alot over the last couple of years. I've gone back and forth between believer and non-believer and now I'm kind of in the middle, leaning more towards believer, however a lot of the statements made in this thread are closed-minded and ignorant (from both sides).

On one hand you can't call believers closed-minded but refuse to believe in the possibility of there being a higher power. That's closed-mined in itself.

So for arguement's sake, let's say God (Christian God) exists. You're going to completely close off any notion of his existence based on something that was written a couple of hundred years after his religion was founded? It's not possible to believe in God but not believe in the Bible? I believe the Bible has been twisted into whatever the fuck the twistee intends to gain from said twisting, and over however many hundreds of years have gone by since it's inception it would be closed-minded to take it word for word.

I have a problem with the people shoving it on your face and saying you'll burn in hell, but I have no problem with people who are just living their lives worshiping whoever they want to. They're not doing any harm so let them be. If they're wrong then they're wrong, but nobody will know until it's their time to go.

I've always believed that things happen for a reason. Certain things in my recent life cannot have happened for no reason, or just for the simple fact of happening, and for that to be the case "someone" has to have orchestrated these events or had a hand in their doing.

Believe what you will, but common belief is that you'll find out what the fuck is up when you're dead.

So just chill, until the next episode.

From what I've stated so far, I've only been talking about religious nuts and Christians (these 2 can be overlapped but not always). I haven't mentioned anything about anyone who believes in a higher power or anything. I really don't like that notion though since it can mean so many things and it's very ambiguous. A lot of times people just fall back on it and play that card in an argument and you really can't say much about it. Then again, why do I have a problem with that? It's not always about the argument. I must say, I myself am starting to question what all reality really is due to my recent experiences with synchronicity and astral projection.

I'm open minded, but not to the point of complete nonsense.

Good posts TSJ.

J4320,

My main message with my post(s) is that I feel as though you need a little more education on the Bible and what it is truly about and what is really is intended for.

Did your school go into EVERYTHING about its original roots, origin, etc...

If so then you DO have a grasp on the bible and its teachings. I had no idea that you went to a Christian school all your life (or I just forgot lol)

You also have to remember from a collegiate level, the people teaching these things have their PHD in their field, not a Bachelors.

People who are atheists really blow my mind.

Just like TSJ, I see SOMETHING working in my life everyday and it would be ignorant to ignore that. Who is to say it is something different other than the Christian God? I dunno. But that is who I have put my personal faith in ATM and it is working out a-okay.

I don't know if you were referring to me when you were talking about the close-mindedness, but, like I said, I'm totally cool with whatever anyone wants to believe in. If Josh wants to believe in his magic fairy, that's fine. If Christians want to believe in God, that's fine, but my problem is when they tell me I'm ridiculous, and their only reasoning is that it contradicts what they believe.

Point is, none of it is proven, therefore it's open for interpretation. None of us are right. But similarly, none of us are wrong. I believe the way I do because my thought process is based more on logic and fact, and religion being based upon miracles and faith makes that hard for me to accept.

But for the person who believes and has faith, logic and science won't mean as much to them in this sense. But like I said, that's the way I lean, and I have no problem with people leaning the other way, AS LONG AS I get that same respect.

[quote8e133a7aa8="zr2152"]Good posts TSJ.

J4320,

My main message with my post(s) is that I feel as though you need a little more education on the Bible and what it is truly about and what is really is intended for.

Did your school go into EVERYTHING about its original roots, origin, etc...

If so then you DO have a grasp on the bible and its teachings. I had no idea that you went to a Christian school all your life (or I just forgot lol)

You also have to remember from a collegiate level, the people teaching these things have their PHD in their field, not a Bachelors.

People who are atheists really blow my mind.

Just like TSJ, I see SOMETHING working in my life everyday and it would be ignorant to ignore that. Who is to say it is something different other than the Christian God? I dunno. But that is who I have put my personal faith in ATM and it is working out a-okay.[/quote8e133a7aa8]

Did I ever mention that I was an atheist? I don't think so... And also, take a look at this --

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-%27less-likely-to-believe-in-God%27.html

Whatever though. I just think that it's foolish to be bound to any belief. That's why I said I think less of Christians. And I'll admit I shouldn't have put it that way. I don't think I'm better than them. I'm just disappointed that they can't be more open-minded.

[quotec5b9e5f937="TravMan162"]I don't know if you were referring to me when you were talking about the close-mindedness, but, like I said, I'm totally cool with whatever anyone wants to believe in. If Josh wants to believe in his magic fairy, that's fine. If Christians want to believe in God, that's fine, but my problem is when they tell me I'm ridiculous, and their only reasoning is that it contradicts what they believe.

Point is, none of it is proven, therefore it's open for interpretation. None of us are right. But similarly, none of us are wrong. I believe the way I do because my thought process is based more on logic and fact, and religion being based upon miracles and faith makes that hard for me to accept.

But for the person who believes and has faith, logic and science won't mean as much to them in this sense. But like I said, that's the way I lean, and I have no problem with people leaning the other way, AS LONG AS I get that same respect.[/quotec5b9e5f937]


Exactly. I have faith, logic, and facts.


That is why I like me.

I am open to anyone and their belief and will not shun them for what they believe in. The problem is, a lot of Christians do. That is why it is hard for me to say that I am actually a Christian (that and the fact that we are complete screw ups and people put us on this pedestal and when we screw up people really make us know).

)

[quote8d23267c5b="TravMan162"] AS LONG AS I get that same respect.[/quote8d23267c5b]

I agree 100%. I also like what TSJ said about things happening in his life that he couldn't contribute to anything BUT a higher power, and that's exactly what I've been talking about my two small experiences in the past few weeks. Something is out there beyond our universe that has a hand in what we do.... Of course that is not fact, but that's what I believe as I'm sure many others do.

J4320, you're telling me that you have NEVER had something happen that was just too coincidental you figured it to be a work of a higher power?

EDIT - UGH J4320, that post you made was pretty ignorant. You say you think less of Christians because they are not open minded, but look at you. You are sitting here saying God is not real, period. I'm saying there is a higher power working for us. I'm not saying Christianity is 100% truth, nor any religion. I feel as though I'm more open minded here. I think when you say open minded you mean "have a mind to think that God isn't real". Of course EVERYONE has had a thought "Hm, it doesn't seem possible there is a God".... but their faith brings them back. I think you sir need to open up your mind.

HOLY SHIT 1111 gets me EVERY NIGHT.

edit - No, person above me that I will not copy and paste the username of, no. I mentioned synchronicity and astral projection a few posts up.

As you can see, 1111 got me again. 222, 555, and etc. keep showing up everywhere. I like it too. It's reality's way of showing me that I don't know everything and there are things beyond my understanding.

[quote7ed472f8b1="J4320"]HOLY SHIT 1111 gets me EVERY NIGHT.

edit - No, person above me that I will not copy and paste the username of, no. I mentioned synchronicity and astral projection a few posts up.[/quote7ed472f8b1]

What's the problem of copying and pasting, it's sadagtb..... read my edit plz.

[quote617252bab1="J4320"][quote617252bab1="zr2152"]Good posts TSJ.

J4320,

My main message with my post(s) is that I feel as though you need a little more education on the Bible and what it is truly about and what is really is intended for.

Did your school go into EVERYTHING about its original roots, origin, etc...

If so then you DO have a grasp on the bible and its teachings. I had no idea that you went to a Christian school all your life (or I just forgot lol)

You also have to remember from a collegiate level, the people teaching these things have their PHD in their field, not a Bachelors.

People who are atheists really blow my mind.

Just like TSJ, I see SOMETHING working in my life everyday and it would be ignorant to ignore that. Who is to say it is something different other than the Christian God? I dunno. But that is who I have put my personal faith in ATM and it is working out a-okay.[/quote617252bab1]

Did I ever mention that I was an atheist? I don't think so... And also, take a look at this --

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-%27less-likely-to-believe-in-God%27.html

Whatever though. I just think that it's foolish to be bound to any belief. That's why I said I think less of Christians. And I'll admit I shouldn't have put it that way. I don't think I'm better than them. I'm just disappointed that they can't be more open-minded.[/quote617252bab1]

Then you must have a lot of Faith then.

And with the IQ thing, there just seems to be a correlation, no causation.

I was in the post reply and I didn't feel like going back. lol

But yeah, I see these repeating numbers a lot whenever I randomly look at the clock. It's funny too because when I consciously think, "I should check the clock! It might be 222!" it never is. It's whenever I don't pay attention to the time for a long time then I randomly look at it. It's fucking weird.

[quote41fffb8784="zr2152"][quote41fffb8784="J4320"][quote41fffb8784="zr2152"]Good posts TSJ.

J4320,

My main message with my post(s) is that I feel as though you need a little more education on the Bible and what it is truly about and what is really is intended for.

Did your school go into EVERYTHING about its original roots, origin, etc...

If so then you DO have a grasp on the bible and its teachings. I had no idea that you went to a Christian school all your life (or I just forgot lol)

You also have to remember from a collegiate level, the people teaching these things have their PHD in their field, not a Bachelors.

People who are atheists really blow my mind.

Just like TSJ, I see SOMETHING working in my life everyday and it would be ignorant to ignore that. Who is to say it is something different other than the Christian God? I dunno. But that is who I have put my personal faith in ATM and it is working out a-okay.[/quote41fffb8784]

Did I ever mention that I was an atheist? I don't think so... And also, take a look at this --

http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2111174/Intelligent-people-%27less-likely-to-believe-in-God%27.html

Whatever though. I just think that it's foolish to be bound to any belief. That's why I said I think less of Christians. And I'll admit I shouldn't have put it that way. I don't think I'm better than them. I'm just disappointed that they can't be more open-minded.[/quote41fffb8784]

[b41fffb8784]Then you must have a lot of Faith then.[/b41fffb8784]

And with the IQ thing, there just seems to be a correlation, no causation.[/quote41fffb8784]

Why's that? And yeah, I don't think the IQ or smartness thing should really be used as evidence in an argument anyway. Just because someone is smart, it doesn't make them correct. That's a fallacy in itself. I was just throwing that article out there because you played the same card.

[quote679b5a5647="J4320"]HOLY SHIT 1111 gets me EVERY NIGHT.

edit - No, person above me that I will not copy and paste the username of, no. I mentioned synchronicity and astral projection a few posts up.

As you can see, 1111 got me again. 222, 555, and etc. keep showing up everywhere. I like it too. It's reality's way of showing me that I don't know everything and there are things beyond my understanding.[/quote679b5a5647]

You're reading into it too much. How much attention did you pay to it before you were interested in synchronicity? Probably not as much now that you're interested.

Like people getting freaked out when the time is 911 or when there are 9/11 people playing Mario Kart online. What's there to be freaked out about? Nobody gave a shit about that time before 9/11 happened.

I will admit though, I buy into the synchronicity a little as it happens to me too (mainly 1111 and 306 (the address of our old house)), but I dismiss it as my subconscious instinctively looking at the clock at that time.

Make sure to make a wish at 1111. I do.

Yeah i do too.

That article is neat j.

[quote4fbb5757c2="theysayjump"][quote4fbb5757c2="J4320"]HOLY SHIT 1111 gets me EVERY NIGHT.

edit - No, person above me that I will not copy and paste the username of, no. I mentioned synchronicity and astral projection a few posts up.

As you can see, 1111 got me again. 222, 555, and etc. keep showing up everywhere. I like it too. It's reality's way of showing me that I don't know everything and there are things beyond my understanding.[/quote4fbb5757c2]

You're reading into it too much. How much attention did you pay to it before you were interested in synchronicity? Probably not as much now that you're interested.

Like people getting freaked out when the time is 911 or when there are 9/11 people playing Mario Kart online. What's there to be freaked out about? Nobody gave a shit about that time before 9/11 happened.

I will admit though, I buy into the synchronicity a little as it happens to me too (mainly 1111 and 306 (the address of our old house)), but I dismiss it as my subconscious instinctively looking at the clock at that time.

Make sure to make a wish at 1111. I do.[/quote4fbb5757c2]

Actually as strange as it sounds, I read about it a few months ago and I wished it could happen to me because I thought it was cool. It never did so I shrugged it off. But all the sudden it came on very strong after an intense Salvia trip a few days ago. And then the astral projection thing happened this morning too. All of it happened so suddenly. It has really changed me. I don't understand what Salvia would have to do with it though.

I'm not sure what this is all about, but the bottom line is I'm curious to see some more opinions about the world ending.

However, after reading all these respones I'm really inclined to look into LD/AP... well not so much AP, sounds a little too creepy.

I'm going to just chime in on the 1111 part. Like 6 months ago, I saw it EVERY DAY. I saw it in the morning if i was up, and at night. Sometimes when I wasnt up in the morning, when I would go to a sports game and I looked at how much time was left randomly, it was 1111. Im not joking at all. One time I looked to my left randomly and saw a digital watch read 1111. The watch was on someones wrist. I googled 1111 and read about it, and it freaked me out.

Also, a few days my clock was unplugged, so its blinking. I come back later, look at the time and its blinking 1111.

my brother's birthday is 11/11

veteran's day, baby

I've noticed that I've been seeing a lot of 1111 (yep, I always make a wish) too but I'm not going to attribute it to something out of the ordinary.

I used to try in college to convince people how silly (organized) religion was in their beliefs but realized what a futile exercise it was. They had an answer for everything, as far fetched as those would be (about how fossils had been placed on earth to test their faith and whatnot). Anyway, I have no problems with religious people, as long as they aren't forcing their beliefs on others (through the government/laws for example). If they behave well because their religion dictates they do so, it can only do good, right?

And the world isn't 70% christian (don't forget there's a big world world out there outside the US), it's more like 30%. Do you christians think that the 20% or so of the population out there who are muslims believe in a false god? Just wondering. The Hindus? Jews?

I'm agnostic btw. I believe there's something out there but I don't buy into any of these organized religions. Remember that scientology is also supposed to be a religion and look at all the people caught up in that.

Anyway, back to 2012. This thread started from someone who read a web page written by a guy who claims to have traveled all over the world and has uncovered a conspiracy and secret military project which caused the asian tsunami.[=http//www.viewzone.com/vz.message.html] claims to have traveled all over the world and has uncovered a conspiracy and secret military project which caused the asian tsunami. It's even a lot worse than I described (aliens, ancient writings, all intertwined), but it makes for decent fiction. So when a wacko like that with no background in astronomy writes about a doomsday like that, you believe it or even give a hint of credence to it? It kind of demonstrates some differences in our belief system I guess.

And when I read about you guys astral projecting, I just don't believe it. I think maybe you're dreaming.

Right now its 111

hehehehehe ---

I honestly wasn't dreaming. I am about as skeptical as it gets toward things. I know I may sound wacky when I mention the clocks and all but it's seriously happening. Regardless of the clocks or not, astral projection is real. I still don't really believe in ghosts/spirits. I think it's some different way of utilizing your mind.

When I used to work out in college I would see my old biology teacher a lot and he was a very nonreligious person as well as me. Somehow we got into the topic of astral projection and he said when he was younger, he could meditate and do it. He said he felt like his "consciousness" was being projected into some kind of dark space with infinite blackness going on and on and on.

I myself only felt my body being lifted out of me and I could feel it on every inch of my skin. I can't describe it but it almost felt painful. I wasn't dreaming, I wasn't even tired and it was broad daylight. I was kind of just laying there and "meditating" on life and then it started happening.

But if I were in your shoes I'd be super skeptical too because I too thought it was BS and people were just experiencing vivid dreams. I wonder if there are any legit scientific studies on this. I think I was on About.com and they were interviewing a guy who said he could do it. He said that he could leave his body and look at it from 3rd person and he could see the room. If this is the case, why doesn't he do that 1 million dollar paranormal challenge? If he could truly do that then it would be easy to identify a number on a card in someone's hand outside the room or something. I think he's kind of bullshitting.

I personally think it could be different parts of the mind conjoining together to create a bizarre experience that feels like nothing else. My biology teacher said that he couldn't see the room, he just felt like his "consciousness" was being projected out of him and drifting up into dark space. [ibe0fe66307]felt[/ibe0fe66307]. That's the keyword there. Who knows if that's what we're actually experiencing or if the mind is just making us feel that way. Dreams feel super real too.

Has anyone ever thought of where the first "thing" came from?

The particle that started the big bang?

Where did the first thing that started it all come from?

Where did space come from? Something had to create it.

And where did that something come from?

[quotebd00517933="J4320"]And where did that something come from?[/quotebd00517933]
What if it always existed? What if it's not barred by three-dimensional time and space like we are? If it existed outside the dimension of time and space?

So often religions portray God as very human like (almost always a male figure).. I think that's pretty silly. Religion is too culture bound. There are just so many of them and they're all claiming to have answers. Monotheism is popular in western cultures, polytheism in others. And what about those who live in remote areas of the world who have never heard of these religions? Are they somehow destined to eternal suffering? No... we are all human. We are all in this together.

But it seems obviously there is a hidden variable that we are not aware of. I don't think religions have the answer, I don't think anyone has the answer. But it seems obvious to me there is a higher power. The world is just too perfect. Everything works together... it's an absolutely incredible creation. Just look around you, look at nature, look at the stars, look at the planets, look at yourselves inside and out. We don't even understand what dreaming is let alone what awaits us after the grave. So why try to make conclusions other than to make yourself feel better? There are no conclusions. There is no closure. Absolutely nothing is for sure.

[quote113f45fa02="hehehhehe"]
Anyway, back to 2012. This thread started from someone who read a web page written by a guy who claims to have traveled all over the world and has uncovered a conspiracy and secret military project which caused the asian tsunami.[=http//www.viewzone.com/vz.message.html] claims to have traveled all over the world and has uncovered a conspiracy and secret military project which caused the asian tsunami. It's even a lot worse than I described (aliens, ancient writings, all intertwined), but it makes for decent fiction. So when a wacko like that with no background in astronomy writes about a doomsday like that, you believe it or even give a hint of credence to it? It kind of demonstrates some differences in our belief system I guess..[/quote113f45fa02]

I didn't start it because I read that page, I heard about it on the radio and then saw a special on it on the History channel. I did a google search and that is the first page that got pulled up so I went ahead and quoted it here, however there are a lot of truths to the matter, if you google it you'll find the same information repeating no matter the source. Again I'm not saying it's real, I'm just throwing it out there for opinions.

[quote113f45fa02="bruman"]But it seems obviously there is a hidden variable that we are not aware of. I don't think religions have the answer, I don't think anyone has the answer. But it seems obvious to me there is a higher power. The world is just too perfect. Everything works together... it's an absolutely incredible creation. Just look around you, look at nature, look at the stars, look at the planets, look at yourselves inside and out. We don't even understand what dreaming is let alone what awaits us after the grave. So why try to make conclusions other than to make yourself feel better? There are no conclusions. There is no closure. Absolutely nothing is for sure.[/quote113f45fa02]

Now that is one of the best posts I have ever read (seems you're in a better mood today -p). My father would say that a lot, I mean it's true. Look at your thumbs and fingers, those alone are just something that was created for a purpose. No way some little bang happened and everything was created in such a process that it all fits together so great. Think about it like taking a 5,000 peice puzzle, well shit probably 100,000 piece puzzle and placing a bomb in the box and having the puzzle fall together after the explosion. Yeah right.

Actually there is significant proof of a "big bang"


here we go....

Back on track, folks.

[quotee61fc7c9a7="sadagtb"]I didn't start it because I read that page, I heard about it on the radio and then saw a special on it on the History channel. I did a google search and that is the first page that got pulled up so I went ahead and quoted it here, however there are a lot of truths to the matter, if you google it you'll find the same information repeating no matter the source. Again I'm not saying it's real, I'm just throwing it out there for opinions.[/quotee61fc7c9a7]
Yeah but most of the info you posted came from that page, like you said, which is worse. The history channel shows a lot of crap, just because they show something doesn't give it any validity whatsoever. Googling just brings up BS from the same types of wack-jobs who are so unhappy with their lives that they want to see the world end and spread this BS.

Please go ahead and post any truths to the matter (real scientific reasoning from real scientists).

[quotec103d6c2e5="hehehhehe"]Please go ahead and post any truths to the matter (real scientific reasoning from real scientists).[/quotec103d6c2e5]

The absolute main reasoning for all of the hype surrounding 12/12 is the fact that the calendar runs out. What it looks like is that everyone realized the calendar was about to expire and went into all this crap about solar flares, which could or could not be true. The end of the world is the day Jesus Christ returns. Please no flame for the previous sentence. Will Jesus come on 12/12? Who knows.......

If you do a google search though you do get 1.6 million results... all of them pretty relevant. But as everyone is going to say "Don't go with the majority".

[quotef8146c8e87="sadagtb"]The end of the world is the day Jesus Christ returns. Please no flame for the previous sentence.[/quotef8146c8e87]

That's your opinion based off of your own dogmatic beliefs. It annoys the hell out of me when religious people say stuff like this.

And let me just go ahead and say in this post --

I'm sorry for being so aggressive toward Christians in my other few posts. I honestly really do feel bad for saying I think less of them. It's just sometimes I wish religion never existed. But when it comes down to it, I have hehehehe's same stance. As long as they aren't forcing their beliefs on others (through laws and etc. like hehehee said) and they are full of love and compassion toward others, there isn't much of a problem. I just hate it when religious people think they're right about everything no matter what and everyone else who acknowledges the fact that there is still a ton of things we don't know is clueless.

However, I still do think that Christians aren't very open minded. That doesn't mean I like them less or I think I'm better than them.

(BTW, Religulous[=http//www.lionsgate.com/religulous/]Religulous looks hilarious and I can't wait to see the reactions to it lol.)

As for the 2-21-12 superstition, I can't wait until it passes and we lose 1 more ridiculous belief as a human race.

The end of the world parties around that time should be fun. Burning Man 2012? Woohoo.

Can some one plz tell me if the world is really going to end in 2012 because if it is, I'm going to replace working out with drinking.

I'll be drinking with my neighbor on doomsday, lol

[quotec82991e1e2="sadagtb"]The absolute main reasoning for all of the hype surrounding 12/12 is the fact that the calendar runs out. What it looks like is that everyone realized the calendar was about to expire and went into all this crap about solar flares, which could or could not be true. The end of the world is the day Jesus Christ returns. Please no flame for the previous sentence. Will Jesus come on 12/12? Who knows.......[/quotec82991e1e2]
Calendars have ended before and we're still here. If that's the best scientific fact you can come up with, I think it's safe to say that we're wasting time discussing this. I provided a link that explains the calendar BS but maybe it doesn't count since it's written by a reasonable person?

[quotec82991e1e2="sadagtb"]If you do a google search though you do get 1.6 million results... all of them pretty relevant. But as everyone is going to say "Don't go with the majority".[/quotec82991e1e2]
Like I said, wack jobs. Again, pick any of these 1.6 million pages with real facts and post it.

I was just reading about how large the universe is and it blew my freaking mind. http//images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http//www.futurehi.net/images/deepfield.jpg&imgrefurl=http//www.futurehi.net/archives/000168.html&h=317&w=475&sz=20&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=30CfneoE9gFd2M&tbnh=86&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dour%2Buniverse%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN

(long link, sorry)

My point in all of this and how it relates to this thread, is that I find it hard to believe that in a universe this big, something as small as earth is doomed to be destroyed in 2012. How is it that earth, which is, infinitesimally small compared to the rest of what's out there, going to be singled out and destroyed when everything else is going to be left to flourish. And don't try to tell me the entire universe is screwed because I don't know that there is a force strong enough to cause a catastrophe of that magnitude.

I suppose, (based on the fact that our implied knowledge of what lies outside our universe is extremely limited) that an adjacent universe could be exponentially larger than ours. In said adjacent universe there could be a black hole that is actually larger than our own universe and could, in turn, swallow our entire universe.......... But that's just crazy talk. And that's what would have to happen for the universe to just end in 2012.

Obviously sadagtb would rather live in lalaland rather than listening to reason.

lol nice trav. You could have at least taken the google image thing out before linking us. lol But I'll have to check that out. o

I don't really see how lala land is thinking the world will end in 2012... that would mean death, and a whole bunch of it. I don't exactly know how many times I'll say it but I never stated I believed the world would come to an end on that exact day. That was a very nice (but long) link on the size of the universe, but it also stated that there was a 100% chance E.T life was for sure.

On a brief side note - Where was the Earth for 10 billion years? Says the universe is about 15 billion years old.... but the Earth is about 5 billion years old... So universe is created with big band and then a little planet called Earth pops up 10 billion years later?

I don't even think flaming can be allowed in this post because there is 1.6 million websites that are talking about the world ending on 12/12, which means I by far am not the only one who has thought about it. Have I thought about it? Yes. Do I think it's a possibility? Yes. Am I sure it's going to happen? No.

So by your logic if 1.6 million people said murder was a good idea, you would agree?

Just because there a lot of idiots in the world who are willing to believe all the doomsday conspiracy theories and other bullshit doesn't make it true.

I will bet you $5 I can find 5 times in this thread where I have stated I am not in agreement with the statements that the world is going to end on 12/12. I said so many times I don't think it's an actual truth, but I was simply stating that [i48a45ba0de]because[/i48a45ba0de] 1.6 million others actually are dead set on it happening that I don't deserve to be flamed for thinking it's a possiblity

[quote7a8d405b71="sadagtb"]I will bet you $5 I can find 5 times in this thread where I have stated I am not in agreement with the statements that the world is going to end on 12/12. I said so many times I don't think it's an actual truth, but I was simply stating that [i7a8d405b71]because[/i7a8d405b71] 1.6 million others actually are dead set on it happening that I don't deserve to be flamed for thinking it's a possiblity[/quote7a8d405b71]

1.6 million? How'd you come up with that number?

Lalaland. lol

1.6 million < the whole world.


Only a fraction.

My neighbor is good at fractions, lol

OMG Tyler stop.

[quote3b1ea2c967="tylerc"]My neighbor is good at fractions, lol[/quote3b1ea2c967]

my neighbor said they were illegal.

you forgot the "..., lol."

[quote1efebdf785="tylerc"]you forgot the "..., lol."[/quote1efebdf785]

oh. i didn't know it was part of the meme

[quote5c4d061e45="zr2152"]OMG Tyler stop.[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor thinks it's funny too, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor is good at fractions, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbors are like 70, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor offered me brownies once, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor said FLV is a virus, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]I'll be drinking with my neighbor on doomsday, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]His neighbor told him to, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]I don't need it, but I'll ask my neighbor, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]Maybe your neighbor has COD4 and you can use his serial number, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor said shrooms are illegal, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]Ask your neighbor, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]He spent the last two days with his neighbor, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]You should ask your neighbor to help you, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]You should ask your neighbor if that's illegal first, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

[quote5c4d061e45="tylerc"]My neighbor told me they've been on August for six months, lol[/quote5c4d061e45]

what, you think that's excessive? shrug





ha, just kidding tyler, i still love you.

So I saw 1111 this morning.

I saw it about 3 hours ago. My clock reset and i walked in and it was flashing 1111 (2nd time in 2 weeks)

And its 1111 right now.

Wow. Ever since we've been talking about all this craziness, I've been doing a lot of searching around the intarweb for scientific developments on space, the universe, black holes and all that bullshit, when I stumbled across an amazing, yet scary thing that's going down in September.

I don't know if you heard of this, but in Geneva, Switzerland and they are going to be causing collisions between charged particles at speeds almost close to that of light, to study what the resulting crash products are composed of.

Doesn't sound like a big deal, but they are predicting some crazy shit because they don't know WHAT to predict. This could indeed be a doomsday device, despite the scientists' claim to the contrary. I assume they have to say that it is completely safe, for if they foresaw any danger, they would not be allowed to go ahead with this.

Check out this article, it may be old news, but damned if I wasn't completely shocked about all of this.

http//www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/08/lhc_preps_to_open_fire/

If when they collide they find a graviton it will help to prove string theory. Atleast that's what i've heard, i'm by no means an expert at any of this.

http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b4/Doomsday.jpg[" alt=""/img8579af7bf1]

that guy must be able to squat 400 easy.