Can't sleep.

I really don't know what to do.

Problems

I can't sleep with any noise and/or light.

I bought ear plugs to help with the noise, and a mask thing to put over my eyes to prevent the light, though light still seeps through. If I don't fall asleep I get real hot making it even more difficult to fall asleep. My roommate was doing a fucking paper until 630 AM NOW. He insists on waiting until the last minute for everything. He had this for weeks and fucking doesn't start it till 2 AM. I need to fucking sleep and now I can't. The sun's already out so forget that. I can't find my eye-mask thing either. I really don't know what to do, this isn't the first time this has happened. I feel like shit now. It's hard for me to swallow and my eyes hurt a lot. He keeps his little desk light on when he's doing his work but it lights up the room and I can't sleep. I've told him to PLEASE go to the lounge or something to do his work or the lab or something, but he INSISTS on doing this, and people think I'm weird because I can't sleep. Like, I really don't know what to do. I need pitch black and no noise.

Any recommendations?

You aren't going to listen to anyone's recommendations anyway

stop sharing a bedroom...

Nyquil. But you won't listen anyway.

It probably has something to do with that dent in your chest

I used to take left over Tylenol 3s when I couldn't sleep. D Fun...

tylenol simply sleep does the trick for me

No offense, but stop being a puss and tell him to do it somewhere else, or atleast do something shitty back to him.

I had a roommate like that. He was a burn out. He dropped all his classes and played Final Fantasy online all through the night. I told him when we moved in that if he bought games for my Game Cube that we could play through the semester, he could keep the system. He didn't buy shit, but was convinced that I told him he could have it even after I told him 100 times he couldn't. I woke up two days before we moved out and he left to go home for the weekend. My Game Cube was gone. I took a suitcase of his clothes and his Helsing cartoon bullshit collection, for collateral and left myself, for good. I called him three times for a trade, but he never called back. The kid was a dirt ball and the suitcase full of clothes probably wasn't worth half of what the Game Cube was, but still the fact that he had to spend a full day at the salvation army picking out a new wardrobe always makes me laugh.

He also got high on something one night and told me to punch him. He kept lurching over my shoulder and telling me that if I didn't punch him he would punch me. He clenched his fist so I socked him in the jaw and then he went to sleep. That was fun....

Oh college, those were the days.

[quoted12a0855f0="Twon"]stop sharing a bedroom...[/quoted12a0855f0]
lol, college man.
[quoted12a0855f0="bballp6699"]No offense, but stop being a puss and tell him to do it somewhere else, or atleast do something shitty back to him.

I had a roommate like that. He was a burn out. He dropped all his classes and played Final Fantasy online all through the night. I told him when we moved in that if he bought games for my Game Cube that we could play through the semester, he could keep the system. He didn't buy shit, but was convinced that I told him he could have it even after I told him 100 times he couldn't. I woke up two days before we moved out and he left to go home for the weekend. My Game Cube was gone. I took a suitcase of his clothes and his Helsing cartoon bullshit collection, for collateral and left myself, for good. I called him three times for a trade, but he never called back. The kid was a dirt ball and the suitcase full of clothes probably wasn't worth half of what the Game Cube was, but still the fact that he had to spend a full day at the salvation army picking out a new wardrobe always makes me laugh.

He also got high on something one night and told me to punch him. He kept lurching over my shoulder and telling me that if I didn't punch him he would punch me. He clenched his fist so I socked him in the jaw and then he went to sleep. That was fun....

Oh college, those were the days.[/quoted12a0855f0]
Oh, I've done some shitty shit to him, but he still does what he wants. He's my friend too and everything since high school, and I won't wanna tell an RA or anything. And the fact that this week is finals week...Ugh.

cough syrup -- sleep aids -- there are countless things you can do, killing him is also an option. But you won't listen to anything anyone says -- so do not do anything, just take it like a bitch.

Or smoke weed.

If I take Nyquil on a daily basis, is that bad? And how does that help you fall asleep if I can't fall asleep because of noise and light.

I managed to get two hours of sleep just now and woke up to hand in my essay.

Nyquil just knocks you out man. You don't even realize it before you are groggy. Or, like I said, smoke.

You don't have to share a dorm room, get a single or something. But it was a dick move on his half for not going to the lounge to work and be considerate. The first two years I lived in a suite (it rocked, met so many cool people), Third year I got single, last year I lived off campus. The last two years I was in my fraternity so i was never around the dorms or my apt to much anyways

You didn't live in your fraternity house?

I know many who don't/

Maybe not their senior year or something, every house at IU has a live-in policy of at least one year except one, at least that I know of. Ours is two years.

If it's a recurring problem, go to the campus clinic or see your family doctor. They can prescribe a non-narcotic like Ambien or Lunesta to help you fall asleep and stay asleep. My teenage daughter was prescribed Lunesta for awhile when she was going through some stuff and having difficulty sleeping. When she first started it, she would be groggy and almost stumbling around within 5 minutes of taking it, and asleep as soon as she reached the bed. It's supposedly non-addictive as well, although I could see how someone could get psychologically addicted to sleeping through the night, so use it sparingly only as needed.

You should try to smoke alittle before you fall asleep if thats possible. It's alot safer then any pill and probably cheaper too (especially if your thinking about prescription sleeping pills)

I do not recommend smoking before sleep.
1) When I am high, and tired - I stay awake alot longer than normal.
2) If you do not smoke regularly now, and start smoking to sleep -- you will need it every time.
3) When you quit smoking, your sleep will be far less than if you don't. (Per Dr. Drew)

[quotecf8c95561c="tylerc"]Or smoke weed.[/quotecf8c95561c]

I can't even imagine what FOAFY-WOAFY would be like under the influence of marijuana.

semesters almost over, tough it out and make sure next year you get a room to yourself. I was the same way I moved in with my best friend and I couldn't sleep if he was on his computer late at night even with headphones on. I switched dorms after 1st semester before some shit happened that caused us to not be friends anymore.

[quote5b78bf9569="h3x"][quote5b78bf9569="tylerc"]Or smoke weed.[/quote5b78bf9569]

I can't even imagine what FOAFY-WOAFY would be like under the influence of marijuana.[/quote5b78bf9569]

He claims to have smoked weed in the drunk posting thread. I don't know if I should believe him or not.

[quotef2e59031da="Quadracer89"]You should try to smoke alittle before you fall asleep if thats possible. It's alot safer then any pill and probably cheaper too (especially if your thinking about prescription sleeping pills)[/quotef2e59031da]
WTH? That sounds like typical pot-head logic...

(assuming you weren't talking about regular cigs, which is probably an even more ludicrous suggestion)

Actually he is probably right. Despite what the commercials say, all sleep medication has some risk of dependency. I suppose pot does too (approx. 5% dependency rate), but I'll take my chances with marijuana over Ambien any day of the week. All natural, relatively harmless, and probably more fun than Ambien.

Weed is just as addictive as any vice. Don't kid yourself.

Psychologically, yes, I will agree with you. Anything can be addictive though; if it becomes part of your routine and you stop suddenly you're going to feel weird. I guess I don't have an addictive personality because I have been smoking cigarettes for 2 years almost and I don't even smoke every day, nor do I get cravings (except when I drink).

[b72a221afa6]Anything[/b72a221afa6] can be addictive -- whether psychological or chemical, the addiction has the same effect and is just as hard to overcome.

Chemically, there is no greater chance of becoming addicted to non-narcotic sleep aids than there is to marijuana or alcohol. Anything abused to excess can certainly cause problems, however that's not what I'm recommending. By seeing a doctor and having a supervised dosage regimen in place only as needed, the likelihood of addiction with such modern meds is almost nil -- far less than with unsupervised/unmoderated, and/or illicit drug use I would say.

As I said, I have close personal experience with modern sleep meds, Lunesta in particular. If it's good enough for my own child, who actually does tend to have an obsessive/addictive personality, then I have no reservations about recommending it whatsoever.

I certainly would never recommend a "smoke" of any kind.

DMORRIS FORUM DAD TO TEH RESKEW!!!!!!1

but srsly, I see where you're coming from, and I realize smoking isn't healthy. However, I believe anything in moderation is acceptable, and that's how I smoke.

[quoted9fc4a4907="tylerc"]You didn't live in your fraternity house?[/quoted9fc4a4907]

No I didn't. I lived in an apt with who is now my wife. They didn't require you to live in the house. Most did but not all.

Which fraternity were you in?

[quote21528e9f7c="tylerc"]Which fraternity were you in?[/quote21528e9f7c]

I told you awhile ago, if you still wanna chat about fraternity's hit me up on aim later.

[quotebec7374325="dmorris68"][bbec7374325]Anything[/bbec7374325] can be addictive -- whether psychological or chemical, the addiction has the same effect and is just as hard to overcome.

Chemically, there is no greater chance of becoming addicted to non-narcotic sleep aids than there is to marijuana or alcohol. Anything abused to excess can certainly cause problems, however that's not what I'm recommending. By seeing a doctor and having a supervised dosage regimen in place only as needed, the likelihood of addiction with such modern meds is almost nil -- far less than with unsupervised/unmoderated, and/or illicit drug use I would say.

As I said, I have close personal experience with modern sleep meds, Lunesta in particular. If it's good enough for my own child, who actually does tend to have an obsessive/addictive personality, then I have no reservations about recommending it whatsoever.

I certainly would never recommend a "smoke" of any kind.[/quotebec7374325]

DMo, I can finally, finally disagree with you on something D Yay!

This could lead to a very long discussion, but basically, all I'm going to say is that the only reason you're suggesting prescription drugs over weed is because prescription drugs are legal and weed is not. I got news for you though, prescription drugs, by nature, are for more harmful to your body than any pots you are going to be smoking. The only reason weed is illegal is because the government can't regulate it and tax it, so they must ban it.

You said it yourself. Your daughter is stumbling around after 5 minutes of taking it. Now how that is better than smoking a J and taking a nap, I'll never know, but to each his own I guess.

This is where America's logic is wrong. If you have an issue, the first reaction from everyone (especially really intelligent people) is to see a doctor and get a drug. Well guess what. The drug is not curing your problem, it's treating the symptoms. Symptoms are your body's way of telling you something is wrong and needs to be fixed. Getting on some happy pill is not curing you, it's treating your symptoms.

If the doctors spent as much time trying to figure out why the hell you can't sleep instead of saying, "eh i don't know what your problem is but this little blue pill will sure knock you on your ass," then we'd have a lot more cured people and a lot less people on drugs.... Whoops, I mean "prescriptions."

I mean look at this thread. Foafy says he can't sleep and immediately everyone says, "oh well try these drugs, they'll put you to sleep." Not one person said, "well foaf, we realize you're kind of slow sometimes, don't nap for longer than 20 minutes, don't drink caffeine less than three hours before bed, and when you go to bed, make it for sleeping only. If you can't fall asleep within the first ten minutes, get up and read a book until you get sleepy." No. We are trained to immediately suggest drugs, when this kid probably is just drinking a 2-liter of coke before bed.

Come on guys. Shame shame. D

That was way too much typing.

But what if he wants to drink a 2-liter bottle of coke before bed?

shit i have had starbucks doubleshots before bed and I still fall asleep

[quote3bd4c24d81="EatChex89"]shit i have had starbucks doubleshots before bed and I still fall asleep[/quote3bd4c24d81]

yes, but you do not have C.I.D. (chest inversion disorder) which causes unneeded pressure on the lungs, making it hard to get into a sleep appropriate breathing rhythm

[quote5dc9a1696a="TravMan162"]DMo, I can finally, finally disagree with you on something D Yay!

This could lead to a very long discussion, but basically, all I'm going to say is that the only reason you're suggesting prescription drugs over weed is because prescription drugs are legal and weed is not. I got news for you though, prescription drugs, by nature, are for more harmful to your body than any pots you are going to be smoking.[/quote5dc9a1696a]
We'll agree to disagree then. And don't presume to know my reasons for my opinions, as you could not be more wrong. And you also don't have "news for me" since your blanket statement that prescription drugs "by nature" are far more harmful than pot is fallacious on its face.

I've seen the miracle that modern medicine can do with people who were beyond any other sort of help. I've never been one for over-medication or frivolous medication, and I'm by far not suggesting that as the automatic answer for everything. I simply mentioned it as a possible remedy as it is one I am familiar with and the results were wonderful. Sleeping disorders are legitimate clinical disorders that affect millions of people who go through life miserable and unhealthy because, for whatever reasons, they aren't getting proper sleep. TFOAF mentions this as an ongoing issue (hyper-sensitivity to light and noise while trying to sleep), so no I don't think it's due to drinking a 2-litre before bedtime. He's young and presumably in good health, so he shouldn't be having such sleeping problems unless something is wrong. That's why I said "see a doctor." If the doctor doesn't think meds are appropriate, then fine. As far as my daughter's stumbling incident, that was the first couple times she took it -- her body quickly adjusted and it no longer had such an exaggerated effect.

Say what you will about prescriptions, but I would MUCH prefer to be under the care of a doctor who is supervising my dosage and adjusting my meds as needed, than to take advice from laypeople and certainly illicit drug users.

This will come across sounding like the preachy, forum Dad that tylerc mentioned, but I don't care. Don't take it personally -- it's my perogative as an old fart. ;)

Much of the anti-doctor, anti-prescription rhetoric I hear is from people trying to justify their own agendas, be that alternative medicines, pot use, etc. And most will regurgitate populist propaganda without any credible evidence to back it up. While certainly there are ways to take care of yourself naturally to maintain or improve one's health, the fact of the matter is prescription medicine, used properly, is legitimate both from a legal standard AND a practical one. You can't argue with decades of science and studies on the subject. Sure, there are "bad" prescription meds out there that get pulled off the market after enough use to identify a negative trend, but those are quite rare. Far more rare than the negative results of illicit drug use (yes, that includes MJ), homeopathic remedies, religious fanaticism, and other general quackery that opposes or denies the legitimacy of real medical science.

I've been around a long time, long enough to be a parent to most of you, and have seen a lot of doctors both for myself and my family. I have personally never had one mis-prescribe meds. Virtually all have felt that meds are to be used only as much as needed. OTOH both my wife and my daughter suffer from chronic illnesses that cannot be treated any other way, and both will likely be on a cocktail of meds for the rest of their lives (surely my wife will, not so sure yet about my daughter, but I'm hopeful she doesn't). And you know what? I'm thankful they've had the opportunity for prescription relief, because their quality of life is so much better for it. Neither would probably be alive or sane, at least for much longer, without it. Would I rather them be smoking pot, visiting a faith healer, or believing in homeopathy? Are you insane?

Sorry, but you hit a nerve. I just get incredibly frustrated when people attempt to legitimize an illegitimate activity, particularly by knocking down a competing legitimate activity. I just have a general disdain for the anti-establishment attitude in general, which I know is popular with idealistic youth. Look me up in 20 years and let's see if your opinions haven't changed.

(response to bruman's deleted post)

All chemicals introduced into the body can have side effects, I never said they didn't. That's why you collaborate with your doctor, to identify and manage those things. Such side effects are incredibly rare, they have to mention them if they affect even 0.001% of the people taking the drug. It doesn't in any way reduce their legitimacy.

Are you actually expecting me to believe that pot (in any form) has ZERO side effects or other negative implications? Again, a typical pot-head argument.

I'm fine with your recreational drug use, alcohol use, etc. as long as you don't endanger others. Just admit that it is what it is and stop trying to legitimize it in some way. Remove the tinfoil hats and drop the conspiracy theories and anti-establishment, anarchist agendas. Just admit you like it so you'll do it as long as you can get away with it, and that's fine. But to tread into areas of science with fallacious arguments that aren't supported by facts and evidence just impugns the credibility of the person making such arguments.

[ba2e9a14004]EDIT[/ba2e9a14004] Wow, I can't believe I pulled out my soapbox in a FOAFY thread. Go FOAFY! roll

BTW, I know it's not necessarily pertinent to the argument at hand, but speaking of homeopathy reminded me of a talk that James Randi did at Princeton several years ago. I love Randi, he's a magician who has made it his life's work to debunk all sorts of theories, whether supernatural/spiritual or "scientific." I have a DVD of the entire talk somewhere, where he went on for a couple hours about several topics, but here's a YouTube clip of the portion regarding homeopathy. You've probably heard of homeopathic "medicines" but you don't really know what that means, this clip might prove enlightening and even humorous. And yes, you can still buy this stuff in your local Wal-Mart or CVS pharmacy.

http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWE1tH93G9U

[quotef4a8f05101="dmorris68"](response to bruman's deleted post)

All chemicals introduced into the body can have side effects, I never said they didn't. That's why you collaborate with your doctor, to identify and manage those things. Such side effects are incredibly rare, they have to mention them if they affect even 0.001% of the people taking the drug. It doesn't in any way reduce their legitimacy.

Are you actually expecting me to believe that pot (in any form) has ZERO side effects or other negative implications? Again, a typical pot-head argument.

I'm fine with your recreational drug use, alcohol use, etc. as long as you don't endanger others. Just admit that it is what it is and stop trying to legitimize it in some way. Remove the tinfoil hats and drop the conspiracy theories and anti-establishment, anarchist agendas. Just admit you like it so you'll do it as long as you can get away with it, and that's fine. But to tread into areas of science with fallacious arguments that aren't supported by facts and evidence just impugns the credibility of the person making such arguments.

[bf4a8f05101]EDIT[/bf4a8f05101] Wow, I can't believe I pulled out my soapbox in a FOAFY thread. Go FOAFY! roll[/quotef4a8f05101]

I deleted the post because I re-read it and it did sound rather biased, but I was just pointing out that prescription drugs have a wide variety of potential side effects that should be taken into consideration when taking. How is that "treading into science with fallacious arguments"? And I never said marijuana had zero side effects or negative implications. For some people, especially when its abused, of course it can. But I don't see it as being generically more dangerous than prescription medicine... especially all the horror stories of suicide, addiction, etc. that we've heard on certain types that get released into the market. Some of these people have a profit-making agenda and release it even though it could possibly hurt more people than help. Like you said, this is rare, but the very fact that that stuff goes on in the business of prescription medicine attests that there is a lot of conflict within that system and therefore loses some of its credibility and trust as a whole. I'm not sure if your issue is with marijuana itself or the fact that it is essentially in a "forbidden zone" by our culture. If marijuana in any form (pill, vaporized, etc) was prescribed by a doctor in a measured dose, would you still be so against it? Marijuana, if you look at the studies, does have a remarkable amount of medicinal purposes and can help a lot of people. I agree that if you do not have proper knowledge about the substance you are taking you should not self-medicate, especially if its a serious problem. A properly trained physician should be the first person to go to for advice. But ultimately it is you. You know your body and yourself more than any doctor or any person on a forum will ever know and that should be the final decision maker.

And if that last paragraph was targeted toward myself, which it seems to be, I am surprised. It seems almost like an attack thats been building up from all those Ron Paul threads. It's incredibly skewed if it was written about me. For those who didn't see the deleted post, all I said was "I personally would trust a plant like marijuana (especially vaporizing, which doesn't pose much of any physical health risk), before trusting any prescription drug". The reason I, and others, attempt to legitimize the usage of marijuana (and I barely ever drink and I don't think I've ever posted about alcohol, besides its dangers, on these forums.. so I'm not sure why you mentioned that) but the reason we have to legitimize marijuana is because there is an incredible amount of bias, stereotypes and misconceptions associated with it -- and this stems from the very beginning, just look at the history. By your name-calling I can sense some of that in you.

I encourage anyone who is strongly against marijuana to read the articles that are linked on this site

http//abovetheignorance.org/

It might open your eyes a bit.

^ I love the web site name. lol

Sure, dmorris. Too much of anything is almost always bad. However, I don't know why you're dismissing it as being worthless except for recreational purposes. Have you tried it before? I always thought medical marijuana was sort of a cop-out as well but after actually feeling my sore back being totally soothed and relaxed with no pain I changed my mind about the issue. I can see how it can help people in pain. I was sort of surprised to read such a comment from you. Marijuana studies pointing out positive effects isn't pseudo-scientific bullshit research. Not all marijuana studies are conducted by biased potheads.

I think it's pretty laughable that this stuff is illegal. (I also find it laughable that the government provides marijuana for some yet imprisons others for it. Oh wait, that's not funny.) Here we are painting a unneeded negative picture about it and wasting resources fighting it when we can be focusing on worse drugs. Seriously, most kids view pot as taboo. Then when they try it they're like, "Wow, this is nothing. What the hell is the big deal about this stuff?" Then they're off to try worse stuff because "drugs aren't so bad after all" and they're not as educated as they could be about other drugs because we waste so much time trying to pound the "evils of marijuana" into their minds. Now of course that is generalizing, not all kids are retarded. But this sort of stuff happens. I think more drug education should be focused on the hardcore drugs that can destroy lives. These anti-marijuana commercials are just retarded. Go Montana meth ads! Now that's money well spent.

Seriously, my drug education in school went like this - "Here are all of the drugs. They are all bad. Don't do them because they're illegal and they'll mess up your life."

This is all my opinion but...

I can't understand how a well educated person would be against marijuana decriminalization. I don't want to keep paying taxes for people in prison because of marijuana. I don't want to pay for the police to waste time picking on people who use marijuana. I could go on but I think yaaaaaall get what I'm saying.

Oh and this isn't all directed at you, dmo. I'm glad that you respect people's choice to use marijuana. And bruman... if I'm ever in your area you'll find me in your room using your volcano vaporizer. ;)

Ermmm but anyway. Yeah I guess pot can help you sleep but I'd rather just take some melanotan.

Okay, some clarifications are in order. I was posting out of frustration with the direction things took with TravMan's anti-prescription post, and posting out of frustration is never a good thing.

First, bruman

No, that paragraph was not directed at you personally, although in hindsight I can see how it would be read that way. When I said "you" I was meaning in general, to anybody that partakes of the cannabis culture. I just don't like people trying to justify their enthusiasm for weed by making spurious claims that are not grounded in reality. Not saying you were, your arguments are well written even if I don't agree with them in spirit. But a lot of dopers push their weed agenda at all costs, even when they look like idiots doing it. Not that I consider everybody who partakes of pot as dopers either, I'm talking about those who have allowed it to consume their lives, and I would lump serious alcoholics and abusers of prescription drugs in the same category.

Now, J4320

I don't believe I ever expressed an opinion about legalization of marijuana. For the most part I'm ambivalent about it, but I am aware of its medicinal value and have always supported it being prescribed under a doctor's supervision. No question there. I'm sure if I or a loved one were affected by a problem (such as glaucoma or certain cancers) that could be better treated by medicinal marijuana than by conventional drugs, I would be far less ambivalent and more vocal in its support. However I don't believe I will ever be in favor of recreational drug use of ANY sort. And while I do make a distinction to some degree, I consider alcohol the drug that it is. Yes, the legal aspect does play a part in the formations of my opinions. We are a society of laws, and I resent anarchy and those who promote it or other anti-establishment ideals. If you feel the laws are unjust or inappropriate, then I will support your legal, peaceful actions to have those laws changed. But I do not support the willful and blatant disregard for law. No, I'm not perfect, I've broken laws before and almost surely will do so again -- that's not my point. This isn't about ME being any better than any of YOU in that regard. It's about having a moral compass that tells me that illicit drug use is indeed bad, that most hard drug users DO start with so-called gateway drugs (be that nicotine, alcohol, or THC), and that drug abuse of all kinds is a blight on our society and a destroyer of lives. Having witnessed it on more than occasion, and having raised 3 children, one of which was walking a fine line at one point in his life between self-destruction and survival, I'm hoping you can understand my passion about the issue.

EDIT for a crucial typo

marijuana is illegal for a very good reason, it kills your motivation. Yeah maybe not "you" or Dr. Conerrs the smartest professor you know that smokes 8 times a day but most people, and a society that is largely unmotivated isn't a good society.

when most of you hit 22-24 you'll realize this as you go out into the real world and most likely quit smoking it. You may still have some pothead friends that aren't doing anything as you are growing up and you'll realize it then too.


I can also say that it kills your opportunities. Even if you do a bangup job in school, drug use may be the difference maker btw you getting a job at the CIA or NASA. So if you didn't start, don't bc you may cheat yourself out of a lot more than you realize.

and if you're smoking regularly quit before you become one of those kids that goes nowhere.

also I hate when people say "god made marijuana, man made beer and prescription drugs who do you trust?"

he also made lots of other perfectly natural plants that are harmful to our bodies. Just because it is natural doesn't mean that it's good, or less harmful than something that was engineering in a lab by a team of scientists.

Also good points justinag. There's a reason why relatively few adults continue to hit the bong.

But let's take the drug discussion to a new topic if that's what you guys want. We've taken FOAFY's sleep problem thread completely off the rail. Not that it probably matters, as he won't listen to anybody's advice anyway, but rulez is rulez. ;)

I never said you expressed any opinion about legalization of marijuana. I just threw that in there because I was just typing along I guess. I can totally see where you're coming from and it makes a lot of sense. We have different viewpoints and I can certainly respect yours. However, I for one don't want to let the government determine my morals. I don't want to wait around for politicians to sway back and forth about it based on who's popularity they can gain. This is a gray area for me. I don't think I should disobey a rule just because it seems stupid to me but sometimes there are exceptions -- like this one. Whatever, though. I'm not really a stoner and I'm not planning on constantly getting high. I just have a somewhat strong opinion on this due to my experiences.

When it comes to my body's health, I'd rather not go with the legal way of drugging myself (alcohol). I care about my liver and other various parts of my body.

[quote9e0e5d0f05="dmorris68"]Also good points justinag. There's a reason why relatively few adults continue to hit the bong.

But let's take the drug discussion to a new topic if that's what you guys want. We've taken FOAFY's sleep problem thread completely off the rail. Not that it probably matters, as he won't listen to anybody's advice anyway, but rulez is rulez. ;)[/quote9e0e5d0f05]
No, imma ask my madre to get my Nyquil or something. Whatever, doesn't matter right now, I'm done with Freshman year tomorrow at 11 AM.

While I can understand a responsible adult enjoying a puff from time to time just as much as a responsible adult having a drink now and then... You shouldn't suggest to someone (especially an adolescent with a childlike-mind) to self-medicate with pot. That's just plain stupidity.

Its just as bad as suggesting to someone to go out and drink alcohol to relieve their depression.

My suggestion for your sleep problems? Stand up, be a man, and confront your roommate.

[quotef134b52bb5="justinag06"]marijuana is illegal for a very good reason, it kills your motivation. Yeah maybe not "you" or Dr. Conerrs the smartest professor you know that smokes 8 times a day but most people, and a society that is largely unmotivated isn't a good society.[/quotef134b52bb5]
Exactly what I was thinking. Most of my friends that smoked too often ended up doing shit, despite their potential.

[quotef134b52bb5="h3x"]My suggestion for your sleep problems? Stand up, be a man, and confront your roommate.[/quotef134b52bb5]
Yep, but we all know happens when we tell foafy to be a man.

[quotef134b52bb5="TFOAF"]No, imma ask my madre to get my Nyquil or something.[/quotef134b52bb5]
(sigh)...

[quote2056ccec04="TFOAF"][quote2056ccec04="dmorris68"]Also good points justinag. There's a reason why relatively few adults continue to hit the bong.

But let's take the drug discussion to a new topic if that's what you guys want. We've taken FOAFY's sleep problem thread completely off the rail. Not that it probably matters, as he won't listen to anybody's advice anyway, but rulez is rulez. ;)[/quote2056ccec04]
No, imma ask my madre to get my Nyquil or something. Whatever, doesn't matter right now, I'm done with Freshman year tomorrow at 11 AM.[/quote2056ccec04]

But are you willing to gel your hair first?

[quote023ad8bda4="dmorris68"][quote023ad8bda4="TravMan162"]DMo, I can finally, finally disagree with you on something D Yay!

This could lead to a very long discussion, but basically, all I'm going to say is that the only reason you're suggesting prescription drugs over weed is because prescription drugs are legal and weed is not. I got news for you though, prescription drugs, by nature, are for more harmful to your body than any pots you are going to be smoking.[/quote023ad8bda4]
We'll agree to disagree then. And don't presume to know my reasons for my opinions, as you could not be more wrong. And you also don't have "news for me" since your blanket statement that prescription drugs "by nature" are far more harmful than pot is fallacious on its face.

I've seen the miracle that modern medicine can do with people who were beyond any other sort of help. I've never been one for over-medication or frivolous medication, and I'm by far not suggesting that as the automatic answer for everything. I simply mentioned it as a possible remedy as it is one I am familiar with and the results were wonderful. Sleeping disorders are legitimate clinical disorders that affect millions of people who go through life miserable and unhealthy because, for whatever reasons, they aren't getting proper sleep. TFOAF mentions this as an ongoing issue (hyper-sensitivity to light and noise while trying to sleep), so no I don't think it's due to drinking a 2-litre before bedtime. He's young and presumably in good health, so he shouldn't be having such sleeping problems unless something is wrong. That's why I said "see a doctor." If the doctor doesn't think meds are appropriate, then fine. As far as my daughter's stumbling incident, that was the first couple times she took it -- her body quickly adjusted and it no longer had such an exaggerated effect.

Say what you will about prescriptions, but I would MUCH prefer to be under the care of a doctor who is supervising my dosage and adjusting my meds as needed, than to take advice from laypeople and certainly illicit drug users.

This will come across sounding like the preachy, forum Dad that tylerc mentioned, but I don't care. Don't take it personally -- it's my perogative as an old fart. ;)

Much of the anti-doctor, anti-prescription rhetoric I hear is from people trying to justify their own agendas, be that alternative medicines, pot use, etc. And most will regurgitate populist propaganda without any credible evidence to back it up. While certainly there are ways to take care of yourself naturally to maintain or improve one's health, the fact of the matter is prescription medicine, used properly, is legitimate both from a legal standard AND a practical one. You can't argue with decades of science and studies on the subject. Sure, there are "bad" prescription meds out there that get pulled off the market after enough use to identify a negative trend, but those are quite rare. Far more rare than the negative results of illicit drug use (yes, that includes MJ), homeopathic remedies, religious fanaticism, and other general quackery that opposes or denies the legitimacy of real medical science.

I've been around a long time, long enough to be a parent to most of you, and have seen a lot of doctors both for myself and my family. I have personally never had one mis-prescribe meds. Virtually all have felt that meds are to be used only as much as needed. OTOH both my wife and my daughter suffer from chronic illnesses that cannot be treated any other way, and both will likely be on a cocktail of meds for the rest of their lives (surely my wife will, not so sure yet about my daughter, but I'm hopeful she doesn't). And you know what? I'm thankful they've had the opportunity for prescription relief, because their quality of life is so much better for it. Neither would probably be alive or sane, at least for much longer, without it. Would I rather them be smoking pot, visiting a faith healer, or believing in homeopathy? Are you insane?

Sorry, but you hit a nerve. I just get incredibly frustrated when people attempt to legitimize an illegitimate activity, particularly by knocking down a competing legitimate activity. I just have a general disdain for the anti-establishment attitude in general, which I know is popular with idealistic youth. Look me up in 20 years and let's see if your opinions haven't changed.[/quote023ad8bda4]

Damn, I knew this was going to start chaos, but going by Foafy's last post, I assume he's okay with us continuing the discussion.

With that, I want to first say that I fear you've misinterpreted some of the things I was saying. Most importantly, you seem to have taken some of what I said as a personal attack to you and your beliefs about the subject, when that was never my intention at all. (Looking back on it, I can see why you would get offended though, and I apologize for that.)

Be that as it may however, I don't smoke weed, I never smoked weed for any significant amount of time and the times I have can be counted on my fingers. I'm not saying that weed is a miracle drug, nor am I promoting my own cannibis agenda. I'm not a reformist, nor am I an idealistic youth with an anti-establishment attitude. And I am most definitely NOT trying to legitimize an illegitimate activity by knocking down a competing legitimate activity.

What I am doing is suggesting that perhaps the overall dependence of people on drugs is not as necessary as it seems. Through that entire rant you went on, you never once addressed my main point which was that prescription drugs do not target the cause of the ailment, but only the resulting symptoms. You're right, you assume Foafy is young and in relatively good health, therefore he SHOULD be sleeping correctly. But he's not and the fact that everyone is failing to accept is that there is an underlying problem causing this to happen. Symptoms don't just appear without something causing them. Something is causing him not to sleep, so a doctor, instead of trying to get to the root of the problem, is going to put him on a pill that will put him to sleep.

The pill masks the ultimate problem that is causing the sleeplessness to occur. Why does no one see a problem with this logic of thinking? I understand that your loved ones have encountered situations to where the use of prescription drugs has been deemed necessary and effective, and I am both sympathetic to them for their ailments, and happy that they found relief. I am not suggesting that they drop the pills and smoke some pot, but I AM suggesting that as their dependency on the drug for relief continues, they should also spend some time trying to figure out what is causing the problem to begin with.

Don't get me wrong, I would never ask you to elaborate on anything you and your family are going through, as that is extremely personal and none of our business. You just used them as an example to prove your point, so I just wanted to go back to that and also use that to prove my own point to you.

Like I said, I am not supporting the mutiny against modern medicine or the institution of health in general, and I am not bringing this up to support my own anti-establishment agendas, I am simply asking why? Why do our doctors prescribe us medicine before they know what's causing our problem? You say that Foafy is young and "presumably" in good health. Well maybe that is exactly the problem. What if his doctor is presuming the same thing and immediately puts him on the drug without even putting any contemplation toward the prospect of there being some sort of off the chain cause for this malfunction? You presume he's in good health, but who knows what could be causing this.

To beat a problem, you need to first understand it. This is basic knowledge, but for some reason, when medicine is concerned, cloaking the problem has become an acceptable, yet misconstrued solution.

I actually felt bad that I struck a nerve with you by the way, DMo.

I respect you and I wouldn't intentionally offend you, hopefully this just stays a debate and doesn't make you hate me haha. (well assuming you didn't already) D

It's late and I need to get to bed, so I'll make this brief -- hopefully I won't gloss over an important point I'm trying to get across.

I presume FOAFY is in good health because that's all I can do -- I don't know him personally, cannot see him physically. His doctor, however, is another story. I would presume his doctor would examine him, ask him questions, run some tests, and make an intelligent diagnosis libeforeli throwing a pill at him. At least that's what my doctors have always done. But first you often have to stabilize a patient before you can effectively treat them, and medicine is a great way (often the only way) to do so. I know there are some bad docs out there who are nothing more than "legitimate" drug dealers, but I'm pretty comfortable with the notion that they're a rare minority.

You seem to ignore the fact that many (perhaps most) medical conditions for which long-term prescriptions are written are for chronic illnesses. Things that are defective or haywire in the body. Not through some fault of the individual, or their lifestyle. Therefore in most of those cases there is NOTHING as effective as a prescription that works. So what if the meds just treat a symptom -- in many cases the symptom liisli the problem, and without the symptom you basically don't have a problem. Most doctors WILL try to identify and treat the root cause of a problem, but in the meantime the patient needs immediate relief. In other cases, nothing whatsoever can be done other than treatment of the symptoms. Again, it's a quality of life question if I'm in chronic excruciating pain every day, sure I'd love for my doctor to find the cause and fix it, but that just isn't always possible. In the meantime, at least give me some relief.

Aside from that, you don't seem to acknowledge that many medicines DO treat and fix the problem, and do not just mask it. If you have chronic hypertension, arthritis, diabetes, lupus (which my wife has), cancer, or any number of other ailments, modern medicines can at the very least stall and in many cases reverse or correct the problem.

And we haven't even touched on mental health issues, about which I've learned an awful lot over the last few years -- medication has saved countless lives and kept people out of institutions and able to live a functional, normal life. Go tell them they should reconsider medication and "treat the root cause of the problem instead." Most mentally ill people (at least those that are somewhat functional) liknowli what caused their problem (genetics, trauma, atc) and it cannot be "fixed" through a lifestyle change or a clinical "cure." It's an internal, personal battle that can only be fought and overcome by that individual, and in most cases, would be impossible without the help of modern chemistry to help keep them on an even keel.

[quotef68cc32e98="TravMan162"]I mean look at this thread. Foafy says he can't sleep and immediately everyone says, "oh well try these drugs, they'll put you to sleep." Not one person said, "well foaf, we realize you're kind of slow sometimes, don't nap for longer than 20 minutes, don't drink caffeine less than three hours before bed, and when you go to bed, make it for sleeping only. If you can't fall asleep within the first ten minutes, get up and read a book until you get sleepy." No. We are trained to immediately suggest drugs, when this kid probably is just drinking a 2-liter of coke before bed.[/quotef68cc32e98]
r u new here? That's because FOAF probably wouldn't listen to our advice anyways, so a quick-fixer is the only way we'll help this kid. For example, he totally disregarded your post and stuck with Nyquil anyways roll

[quotef68cc32e98="h3x"]I can't even imagine what FOAFY-WOAFY would be like under the influence of marijuana.[/quotef68cc32e98]
I have no relevant GIFs. J4?

[quote7c125e8a5e="dmorris68"][b7c125e8a5e]It's late and I need to get to bed, so I'll make this brief -- hopefully I won't gloss over an important point I'm trying to get across.
[/b7c125e8a5e]
I presume FOAFY is in good health because that's all I can do -- I don't know him personally, cannot see him physically. His doctor, however, is another story. I would presume his doctor would examine him, ask him questions, run some tests, and make an intelligent diagnosis libeforeli throwing a pill at him. At least that's what my doctors have always done. But first you often have to stabilize a patient before you can effectively treat them, and medicine is a great way (often the only way) to do so. I know there are some bad docs out there who are nothing more than "legitimate" drug dealers, but I'm pretty comfortable with the notion that they're a rare minority.

You seem to ignore the fact that many (perhaps most) medical conditions for which long-term prescriptions are written are for chronic illnesses. Things that are defective or haywire in the body. Not through some fault of the individual, or their lifestyle. Therefore in most of those cases there is NOTHING as effective as a prescription that works. So what if the meds just treat a symptom -- in many cases the symptom liisli the problem, and without the symptom you basically don't have a problem. Most doctors WILL try to identify and treat the root cause of a problem, but in the meantime the patient needs immediate relief. In other cases, nothing whatsoever can be done other than treatment of the symptoms. Again, it's a quality of life question if I'm in chronic excruciating pain every day, sure I'd love for my doctor to find the cause and fix it, but that just isn't always possible. In the meantime, at least give me some relief.

Aside from that, you don't seem to acknowledge that many medicines DO treat and fix the problem, and do not just mask it. If you have chronic hypertension, arthritis, diabetes, lupus (which my wife has), cancer, or any number of other ailments, modern medicines can at the very least stall and in many cases reverse or correct the problem.

And we haven't even touched on mental health issues, about which I've learned an awful lot over the last few years -- medication has saved countless lives and kept people out of institutions and able to live a functional, normal life. Go tell them they should reconsider medication and "treat the root cause of the problem instead." Most mentally ill people (at least those that are somewhat functional) liknowli what caused their problem (genetics, trauma, atc) and it cannot be "fixed" through a lifestyle change or a clinical "cure." It's an internal, personal battle that can only be fought and overcome by that individual, and in most cases, would be impossible without the help of modern chemistry to help keep them on an even keel.[/quote7c125e8a5e]

Reminds me of this

http/" alt=""/imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png[/img7c125e8a5e]

lol

[quote7c125e8a5e="ajasax"][quote7c125e8a5e="TravMan162"]I mean look at this thread. Foafy says he can't sleep and immediately everyone says, "oh well try these drugs, they'll put you to sleep." Not one person said, "well foaf, we realize you're kind of slow sometimes, don't nap for longer than 20 minutes, don't drink caffeine less than three hours before bed, and when you go to bed, make it for sleeping only. If you can't fall asleep within the first ten minutes, get up and read a book until you get sleepy." No. We are trained to immediately suggest drugs, when this kid probably is just drinking a 2-liter of coke before bed.[/quote7c125e8a5e]
r u new here? That's because FOAF probably wouldn't listen to our advice anyways, so a quick-fixer is the only way we'll help this kid. For example, he totally disregarded your post and stuck with Nyquil anyways roll

[quote7c125e8a5e="h3x"]I can't even imagine what FOAFY-WOAFY would be like under the influence of marijuana.[/quote7c125e8a5e]
I have no relevant GIFs. J4?[/quote7c125e8a5e]

[img="7c125e8a5e]http/" alt=""/img399.imageshack.us/img="399/700/1210217096272mg8.gif[" alt=""/img7c125e8a5e]

[quote8f007710e1="J4320"]Reminds me of this

http/" alt=""/imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png[/img8f007710e1]

lol[/quote8f007710e1]

LOL, that is lisoli me...

[quote46d040b92b="dmorris68"]It's late and I need to get to bed, so I'll make this brief -- hopefully I won't gloss over an important point I'm trying to get across.

I presume FOAFY is in good health because that's all I can do -- I don't know him personally, cannot see him physically. His doctor, however, is another story. I would presume his doctor would examine him, ask him questions, run some tests, and make an intelligent diagnosis libeforeli throwing a pill at him. At least that's what my doctors have always done. But first you often have to stabilize a patient before you can effectively treat them, and medicine is a great way (often the only way) to do so. I know there are some bad docs out there who are nothing more than "legitimate" drug dealers, but I'm pretty comfortable with the notion that they're a rare minority.

You seem to ignore the fact that many (perhaps most) medical conditions for which long-term prescriptions are written are for chronic illnesses. Things that are defective or haywire in the body. Not through some fault of the individual, or their lifestyle. Therefore in most of those cases there is NOTHING as effective as a prescription that works. So what if the meds just treat a symptom -- in many cases the symptom liisli the problem, and without the symptom you basically don't have a problem. Most doctors WILL try to identify and treat the root cause of a problem, but in the meantime the patient needs immediate relief. In other cases, nothing whatsoever can be done other than treatment of the symptoms. Again, it's a quality of life question if I'm in chronic excruciating pain every day, sure I'd love for my doctor to find the cause and fix it, but that just isn't always possible. In the meantime, at least give me some relief.

Aside from that, you don't seem to acknowledge that many medicines DO treat and fix the problem, and do not just mask it. If you have chronic hypertension, arthritis, diabetes, lupus (which my wife has), cancer, or any number of other ailments, modern medicines can at the very least stall and in many cases reverse or correct the problem.

And we haven't even touched on mental health issues, about which I've learned an awful lot over the last few years -- medication has saved countless lives and kept people out of institutions and able to live a functional, normal life. Go tell them they should reconsider medication and "treat the root cause of the problem instead." Most mentally ill people (at least those that are somewhat functional) liknowli what caused their problem (genetics, trauma, atc) and it cannot be "fixed" through a lifestyle change or a clinical "cure." It's an internal, personal battle that can only be fought and overcome by that individual, and in most cases, would be impossible without the help of modern chemistry to help keep them on an even keel.[/quote46d040b92b]

I'm going to drop it at this point. I want to go off on a tangent with this and the personal opinions I have about healthcare and the FDA and all that crap, but I feel it's just going to start a battle and probably get some people pissed. I understand a few of your points and some I just outright disagree with, but I guess that's the beauty of the forums right? I do love a good spirited debate once in awhile though and that was a damn good one D

If nothing else, at least I proved I'm capable of an intelligent conversation and not all sarcastic one liners with smiley faces D D D

[quote2d2c869b40="CollidgeGraduit"]It probably has something to do with that dent in your chest[/quote2d2c869b40]

rofl

i...love...that...lidrools at post above hersli

You know, I'm going to catch a ration of shit for this

But I watched the infamous video, her boobs look way better bouncing WITH a bra on. Naked, they're starting to sag, they're disproportionate, their kind of pear shaped, and they are overall too big.

Sorry.

I'm a breast critic D

That avatar IS smoking hot though hahaha

linods in agreement with Trav then snaps out of itli THERE'S A VIDEO!?!?!?!?!

http//www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/205291.html

there she be

damn...now I need to go clean up the mess...ligoes to get mop, bucket, and suction cupli