It's come to my attention...

Hello there everyone! )
Unfortunately, I've heard some quite disturbing news tonight that's caused me to write this memo. Some of you might know me from the forums as W4FWebmaster. As of August 1st, I have quit Wish4Free, and decided to form my own startup company. The details regarding my departure were kept private as I assumed Mario would want.

It seems however, this has taken a turn for the worse as numerous accounts that Mario has been attempting to discredit my name have been made aware. With this post I'm hoping shed some light on this subject, and make known that there are two sides to every story.
------------------------------------------
I joined Wish4Free June 1st 2007 with Mario. From the start, no contracts were written and no partnership was set in stone. However, it was discussed on multiple occasions that the new Wish4Free, was not a contact job; I was going in as a [bf1ffb960f4]business partner[/bf1ffb960f4]. It was also discussed many times, that all profits would be split 50/50. Again, let me say this, [bf1ffb960f4]No contracts written; all business discussed, was made up of verbal contacts between Mario and I[/bf1ffb960f4].

After two solid months of development, we were nearing completion of the site launch. It was at this time, in which money started coming in that was to be split. I was still under the impression that we had already decided upon 50/50. That this was to be a business venture and not a contacted website.

So now the money has come in, and we calculate all profits/expenses. Because Mario fronted all the cash for the prizes to ship out to everyone, we used the folling formula to split the earnings

TOTAL PROFITS each = (Total Revenue - Total Expenses (Kept by Mario to cover)) / 2

This way Mario received all money he put towards the business.
At this point, Mario decided it was an unfair solution, and that he didn't think 50/50 was appropriate anymore. I disagreed, but was reasonable as to discuss the matter further. He felt that because he fronted the money, he should receive more percentage; enen though he was getting all his expenses paid back before the split. We eventually aggreed upon the payments of $7,000 for June and $4,000 for July to me ... with understanding that from August, onward, it would be 50/50 there on out.

The next day, I receive a call from him saying he'd like to meet up to discuss this financial matter more. We meet at his place, and go over the figures some more. At this point, he wants to pay me a little less than $6,000 for July. He also felt that it was wrong to determine my salary based upon percentages, like 50/50, 70/30. Well I know what I deserved, as the work detail was not just standard web development.

My Job Details w/ Wish4Free
10+ Page level site.
PHP/SQL/FLASH
Setup entirely new support system
Created an Anti-Fraud Security system, one yet seen by any Incentive-Based site.
Customer Support
Straight Database Editing (For Customer Support)
Managing all prizes, affiliates, FSR administration.
Editing FSR SMARTY Templates and adding several features including Prize Gallery, Automated Prize Thumbnails, Dynamic Signature Images (Banners)
Site graphics work

Mario's Job Details
Managing Offers
Customer Support
Bringing new members

We ended upon agreeing to $7,000 for July and $4,000 for June, with understanding that from August, onward, it would be 50/50 there on out ... [bf1ffb960f4]yet again[/bf1ffb960f4]. Mario would be making $13k+ for June, $7k+ for July.

The following day, he calls me to say he still doesn't feel this is a fair deal and comes over to talk about it some more.
[bf1ffb960f4]Now things get interesting...[/bf1ffb960f4]
He decides not only is the agreed upon figure not fair, but now he doesn't want a business partner anymore. He now wants to pay me $5,000 fixed income each month no matter how much work I do. Either that, or 30-35%. Thus,

[I Quit]


I left Wish4Free with all the work I did in the past two months and have decided to put it to good use by creating a fresh Incentive-based eBusiness. Mario kept all profits for the two months and did not offer any payment for Customer Support given or Database Services.

Let me make it known that I was working literally around the clock and most of the time over 60 hours per week. If you ever dealt with Customer Support during those two months and had a pleasant time, you were most likely dealing we me. Mario's idea of customer service is smoke a lot of weed and yell at them.

-------------------------------------------

This post is just petty. However, I felt it needed. I left Wish4Free will little to no ill-will. From the start, all business should have been conducted on paper and signed by both parties. It was quite amatuer night from the start. It is when I hear reports of slander, fabricated by lies, in which I become concerned and felt the need to post.

To Mario
Post a rebutall if you'd like, but please stop your insistant paper-thin lies.

http//www.280z28.org/images/dramallama.jpg[" alt=""/img124ab20588]

Mario=gmario?

lol CollegeG. This wasn't intended as a drama-causing topic. This is simply about right and wrong and the dishonest remarks that have been made about my personal character as well as my business.

And yes, zdub08, Mario (GMario).

Yeah but telling us all this doesn't solve anything does it? You're just airing out dirty laundry. You should've had some kind of contract in writing.

So you guys made $20k in June? I guess it's pretty good because it's the first month but I wonder how much you guys would make per month once the payouts become stable... Maybe $5k wasn't so bad. Either way, if you don't have a written contract, he can keep re-negotiating all he wants. You can't fuck around when it comes to money.

hehehhehe
Not sure if you read the full post. I've already stated everything should have been in writing from the beginning. This post isn't about the monetary agreements or any of the business between Mario and I. The reason for this post was to clear some facts about what happened. As people have been misinformed by Mario to purposely discredit myself.

Also, $5k / (60hrs li 4wks) = $15/hr.

I still agree with heheheheh...you were his web designer in the first place

$5,000x12=$60,000 which is pretty good money.

Didn't gmario already have another problem with a "business partner?"

Putting up on a forum how much you made isn't a good idea, you can expect to see more sites opening up becuase of that.

He worked with Patrick (owner of ZipNadaZilch) previously, but they had their own dilemma. I harbor no ill-will towards Mario for negotiating the pay or that he felt he no longer wanted a partner .. that's not the issue guys. I just didn't understand the need for him to pursue the matter the way he did. I want to give everyone a clear picture of what happened and many of the things he has been saying are untrue.

I've worked with quite a few of you while with Wish4Free and had an excellent experience. I just hope everyone doesn't soak in what he is saying without hearing me voice my side.

Not that it is really any of my business, but knowing what I know about Patrick, and hearing your situation ... it kind of makes me wonder about Mario and his business practices. Two people have gone 'elsewhere' after working for him, and that's only in the last, what, 3 month I believe. I have nothing against Mario or any of his sites, I'm just saying that some of his personal manorisms seem a little misguided towards his partners.

Still, I would love to hear his side of this before I make my own final assessment of the situation.

You should prolly edit the actual money amounts... I don't know if its a good idea to just wing that out there D

If you knew it should have been in writing, why didn't you have that done?

I for one, did not know who you were until this post so there probably wasn't much to clear up for most of us. For a post that isn't supposed to be about the monetary agreements, you sure talked about it a lot. The majority of the post is about it.

$5k / (60hrs li 4wks) is more like $21/hr

Not much per hour, but no one is holding a gun to your head to keep the job so you could've just quit without telling all of us in off-topic. If you had other better options, of course you should pursue them.

And of course you have ill-will towards gmario, we're not stupid. Why else would you make this post? I'm not defending gmario, I hardly know who he is, and frankly, don't care.

You don't have to answer any of my questions as they are rhetorical. I'm out of this thread as it's none of my business (sorry for sticking my nose in). I just wanted to comment because I just saw it as a simple money / contractual problem and it seemed weird being discussed in public like this.

It's absolutely idiotic to walk away from this with nothing. If you did the work you claim you did, At least get a fair compensation for your work, otherwise shut down the site. Get mario to buy out your 50% stake in the "business". Thats the only fair way. If he has admin access to everything, affiliates in his name, and you have no control over anything, thats your mistake..... You know this guy in real life? You met up somewhere? If I got "Cheated" out of that much money, I'd bash the guys head in. I haven't heard Mario's side of the story yet, so Im just assuming everything you said was true, But still waiting on his side.

You were working at Subways before and your friends told me [b8329fbc21c]you knew how to make sites so we met up I explained what I needed done and you agreed that you could do the sites I never came saying oh I need a partner[/b8329fbc21c]. That's why you made the sn Wish4FreeTech because [b8329fbc21c]YOU WERE MY TECH SUPPORT[/b8329fbc21c] and agreed on doing my sites and working on the fraud system which I explained to you since you didn't know about it off the top off your head. Before you had no idea how all of this worked? So now after two months you think you have everything set up right so good luck playa. Oh and thx for having your roommate call me when you made this topic very cute of you why not call me instead of doing the topic lol.

[b8329fbc21c]Remember Tech Support an Partner are two completely different things.[/b8329fbc21c]

[quote866c00fb29="KnightTrader"]It's absolutely idiotic to walk away from this with nothing. If you did the work you claim you did, At least get a fair compensation for your work, otherwise shut down the site. Get mario to buy out your 50% stake in the "business". Thats the only fair way. If he has admin access to everything, affiliates in his name, and you have no control over anything, thats your mistake..... You know this guy in real life? You met up somewhere? If I got "Cheated" out of that much money, I'd bash the guys head in. I haven't heard Mario's side of the story yet, so Im just assuming everything you said was true, But still waiting on his side.[/quote866c00fb29]

No no, I took 99% of the work I did with me. Everything I could take. The only compensation that should have been paid was for things like tech support and database edits.

[quote866c00fb29="gmario"]You were working at Subways before and your friends told me you knew how to make sites so we met up you agreed that you could do the sites not on being my partner. That's why you made the sn Wish4FreeTech because you where my Tech and agreed on doing my sites and working on the fraud system I explained to you. Before you had no idea how all of this worked? So now after two months you think you have everything set up so good luck playa. Oh and thx for having your roommate call me when you made this topic very cute of you.

Remember Tech Support an Partner are two completely things.[/quote866c00fb29]

1. You've addressed none of the issues above about why you've decided to take such petty methods to sabotage my business which has yet to even open. When I left, I harbored no intent to ruin your network and still don't. I left because I didn't feel the business relationship was going well, nor did I like the compensation agreement.
2. Subway? Does this relate to anything?
3. "we met up you agreed that you could do the sites not on being my partner."

Sorry Mario but that's most definitely a lie, and I'm positive you know it. I'm not here to dispute any of the problems we had as business partners. All I'm asking is to stop lying and discussing with others about our business.

And, my roomate calling you? Sorry but I was unaware of this.

It makes no sense to me why someone with an established network who needed some work done and had some great ideas would make you "partner", i mean why would he do that, he has an established network and needed work done, but to offer equal partnership for that seems a little far out. A percentages based on OWNERSHIP like 35 percent(because you are not the OWNER) seems fair but i would have taken the flat fee. now you see the money, so you just cut lines and leave with all the work and start your own, i dunno. not my business but since you brought it up...

I don't care much about your situation since I had never heard of your site until today, but you may wanna check laws in Florida. I know in California verbal contracts are legally binding. Why don't more people do it like the mafia and finalize agreements with a hug?

[quoted1caed42ce="natedodd"]It makes no sense to me why someone with an established network who needed some work done and had some great ideas would make you "partner", i mean why would he do that, he has an established network and needed work done, but to offer equal partnership for that seems a little far out. A percentages based on OWNERSHIP like 35 percent(because you are not the OWNER) seems fair but i would have taken the flat fee. now you see the money, so you just cut lines and leave with all the work and start your own, i dunno. not my business but since you brought it up...[/quoted1caed42ce]

This is not of concern. I'm not arguing that he decided he didn't want me as a partner. I'm only concerned that for some reason he feels the need to not only manipulate the truth, but also create some impression that I or my business is something to be warned about.

I am not understanding it all - did you decide to take 99% of your work with you and he decided not to pay you or did he not pay you for your work and you decided to walk out with your work? You should have had a contract stating terms but since you are both very young - a lesson learned. (Money is the root of all evil). If he was going to pay you a fair wage for your work and then you said no -"I want more" after the fact, then walking out with everything you did (and learned) to start your own site does seem a bit underhanded business ideals.
But we don't know what the "contract" was so we can only base it on what you both say. I do find it odd that after Mario has the ideas and the money to back up his Network that he would consider Tech. Support as a FULL PARTNER. But then again, I do not know what happened with his other "partner". Only you guys do.

I hope it works out for the best for all.

how about a PM for this? I doubt many people here care about your personal agreements, sounds like he came to you to be a website designer, not a business partner... Most people don't go after a business partner that knows absolutely nothing about the business line he is going into...

Wow. I knew Gmario did the same thing to Patrick....I am loving this Gmario boss attitude. He gets what he needs out of you and then kicks you to the curb

[quoteed76e021ec="TryinToGetPaid"]Wow. I knew Gmario did the same thing to Patrick....I am loving this Gmario boss attitude. He gets what he needs out of you and then kicks you to the curb[/quoteed76e021ec]

A man after my own heart.

[quote08018c4955="tjwor"]how about a PM for this? I doubt many people here care about your personal agreements, sounds like he came to you to be a website designer, not a business partner... Most people don't go after a business partner that knows absolutely nothing about the business line he is going into...[/quote08018c4955]

[quoteaea8ee7353="tjwor"]how about a PM for this? I doubt many people here care about your personal agreements, sounds like he came to you to be a website designer, not a business partner... Most people don't go after a business partner that knows absolutely nothing about the business line he is going into...[/quoteaea8ee7353]

From what the OP is saying it sounds like he is only posting all this information to give us all insight into what happened between him and mario. He's saying all this because he said mario is saying negative things about him and his site/business. So I believe this thread is to discredit the negative things mario is allegedly saying (I only say allegedly because I don't know who said what or where it was said and to whom) by providing a summary of what his and mario's relationship was like. It looks like we're all focusing on the salary and the partnership and the other things but that's really just part of the back story. The thread could have looked like this

[quoteaea8ee7353="IncnRwrds"]Hello there everyone!
Unfortunately, I've heard some quite disturbing news tonight that's caused me to write this memo. Some of you might know me from the forums as W4FWebmaster. As of August 1st, I have quit Wish4Free, and decided to form my own startup company. The details regarding my departure were kept private as I assumed Mario would want.

It seems however, this has taken a turn for the worse as numerous accounts that Mario has been attempting to discredit my name have been made aware. With this post I'm hoping shed some light on this subject, and make known that there are two sides to every story.
------------------------------------------
I joined Wish4Free June 1st 2007 with Mario. [baea8ee7353][iaea8ee7353]No contracts were written up but there was supposed to be a verbal agreement. I felt that due to my heavy workload and being a partner I should be paid X amount. Mario at first agreed then changed his mind. We ended up in a disagreement that ended with me taking my working and leaving. I thought there was no ill will between us but it looks like I may have been wrong. [/iaea8ee7353][/baea8ee7353]

[/quoteaea8ee7353]

That could have probably had the same effect but with less focus on the particulars of the salary, who was supposed to be partners, who was tech support, who should have gotten a contract, etc.

so mario didn't pay him anything for his work?

he took it with him

You were his web designer it looks like you were getting paid for doing the work that you were told to do. It also looks like you were trying to take over the company while you were supposed to doing maintenance and support. At the end you tried to take advantage of him. You can't just walk into any business and ask for half of the company! lol your crazy! You have to earn your keep in this world and work your way to the top DAN! I would have done what Mario did too!

[quote30a7d2ca9c="Baller"]You were his web designer it looks like you were getting paid for doing the work that you were told to do. It also looks like you were trying to take over the company while you were supposed to doing maintenance and support. At the end you tried to take advantage of him. You can't just walk into any business and ask for half of the company! lol your crazy! You have to earn your keep in this world and work your way to the top DAN! I would have done what Mario did too![/quote30a7d2ca9c]

Why waste time working your way to the top when you can take it? That is my philosophy.

[quotec2b8a9e7f1="Baller"]You were his web designer it looks like you were getting paid for doing the work that you were told to do. It also looks like you were trying to take over the company while you were supposed to doing maintenance and support. At the end you tried to take advantage of him. You can't just walk into any business and ask for half of the company! lol your crazy! You have to earn your keep in this world and work your way to the top DAN! I would have done what Mario did too![/quotec2b8a9e7f1]
trying to take over the company? there were 2 people involved in the site and one did all the work.

I paid my "designer/programmer."

But then again, he understood that he would not receive any profits from my site.

Honestly, I believe that in some states, the breaking of a verbal contract can be taken to court. Maybe dolynea can confirm or this?

A verbal contract can be enforced although difficult to prove in court. Gmario should pay him for his work..but not split profits those are clearly Gmario's to keep. Sounds like Gmario is right imo.

Since none of us were a party to the original agreement, and there's nothing in writing, none of us can make a fair and accurate judgment. All we can do is speculate based upon the OP's word against GMario's.

It sounds like the OP wanted to tell his side of the story since he believes GMario is already telling everyone something different. He didn't really ask for our opinions as to who is right or wrong or how he should have handled, but more just wanted to present his side since he felt he was being falsely maligned. I do agree he could have left some of the details out about dollar figures, but if GMario happened to be including contradictory figures in his version of events, then it would make sense to me if the OP wanted to clarify that. If not, then money really shouldn't of been discussed, but I'm old-fashioned like that so, meh.

I'm still not clear enough on the details and history to form my own opinion. I will just say this

If the site itself existed, or at least the groundwork already laid, prior to GMario approaching the OP about doing maintenance and support, then that doesn't imply an equal partnership, unless GMario specifically offered it.

However, if GMario approached the OP and said "hey, I have this idea for a freebie site. I'll put up the money and provide the hosting, but I don't have any web or programming skills. Will you help me get it setup and going?" then to me that would imply a partnership, since GMario had nothing but an idea without any way to implement it himself. If that's the case, I can easily understand how the OP might have considered it an equal partnership. Not to mention the OP repeatedly states that he and GMario discussed 50/50 splits which GMario initially agreed to, then changed his mind.

Combined with Patrick's account, which seems disturbingly similar in nature as I recall, I would have to wonder about GMario's motives and practices myself. But honestly I don't know either party well enough to believe one over the other.

Lesson to be learned for all get everything in writing. No matter how trivial or informal, or how well-established the relationship is. When I do work for people, I write up the requirements and any financial arrangements beforehand, and get the other party to sign off. Yes, verbal contracts are binding in many states, but you have to prove your version of the verbal agreement in court -- if there are no witnesses, it devolves back into this same "your word against mine" argument and thus provides a shaky ground where the judgment could go either way, based upon who seems more believable.

GMario, this is twice you've been accused of shady business dealings with your site, so if you're being honest then YOU should want to have things in writing so as to avoid false accusations in the future. And anybody who works with/for you in the future -- especially after reading topics like these -- should certainly demand the same from you. If either party refuses, then their motives should be immediately suspect and the other party should walk.

I want resolve this topic, as there really is no need for further discussion, with just a few statements.

I'd like to thank those who actually read the full article and understood it's intended purpose, although, it definitely could have used a bit re-wording. Since August 1st, I'd kept all information pertaining to Mario's and my business, private. I was under the impression that he would too. It wasn't until I became aware of people being misinformed as to the reasons I had left Wish4Free, but they were also being told outrageous lies about my personal character and my newly formed business. It was then I felt the need to "clear my name" so-to-say, and allow everyone to understand my take on the situation.

As to the matter of "was I asked to join Wish4Free as a Partner or contracted web developer", is just speculation. I can't ask any of you to make an assertion nor do I want you to. Nothing can be proven here, as it is my word against Mario's.

DMorris68 & JayKanish really hit the nail on the head, and I thank you for attempting to clarify my original post. I had posted all information in detail to allow those ill-informed, an accurate account.

I will say this Those of you who think you know Mario, maybe through online chat, wish4free customers ... I know him personally. It doesn't make my statements anymore less-biased, however, don't be a sap and soak in everything he says. I loved my time with Wish4Free. Mario is incredibly knowledgeable about running an Incentive-based site. I'd say 95% of my knowledge of this industry has been due to him. However, I don't quite understand why he's felt the need to dis-credit me, only because we had a business fall-out.

Some of you know me through Wish4Free, most of you don't. I will have a new network starting quite soon, and all I ask is for you all to think for yourselves and not be influenced by Mario's statements. I have quite a number of new ideas to better the "freebie" industry as you will see in the coming week.

If you don't mind me asking what kind of new ideas?

[quote44d8a197bd="justin2610"]If you don't mind me asking what kind of new ideas?[/quote44d8a197bd]

I'll be posting very soon all about them.