Global Warming

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=68015

good2speed

10-08-2007 12:37:03

I've recently finished watching the movie Inconvenient Truth and I must say I'm startled by the damage we are doing to our planet. Now I must say that I am no tree hugger nor have I been an enviornmentalist at any point in my life but after soime revelations I see the need to exist.

Some of the points discussed in the movie

- polar caps are melting and big ice shelfs are falling into the sea raising water levels and causing concern for sever future flooding.
- more Co2 emissions will likely cause the global temp to rise.
- more co2 in atmoshphere now then ever before
- wind currents and climates are vulnerable to change due to global warming possibly initiating another ice age
- lakes/water sources drying up
- 10 hottest years recorded of all time have been in the last 14 years

What I've observed myself

- tornado in NY(hasnt been one since 1889)
- record hurricane season
- heat waves worldwide(europe especially)

With all this evidence availible some people are still skeptical of a major environmental collapse and assume G.W. is just a theory. I dont understand their position or if they are getting kickbacks from the oil companies but I find it repulsive that some people will dismiss to even debate the subject.

The problem lies with the energy companies and their lack of motivation to influence research into new energy solutions. They wont be the ones that find the solution we will have to do it ourselves as any new energy probably hurts their overall bottom line.

Powerbook

10-08-2007 12:39:03

[quotee82003b3c7="good2speed"]I've recently finished watching the movie Inconvenient Truth and I must say I'm startled by the damage we are doing to our planet. Now I must say that I am no tree hugger nor have I been an enviornmentalist at any point in my life but after soime revelations I see the need to exist.

Some of the points discussed in the movie

- polar caps are melting and big ice shelfs are falling into the sea raising water levels and causing concern for sever future flooding.
- more Co2 emissions will likely cause the global temp to rise.
- more co2 in atmoshphere now then ever before
- wind currents and climates are vulnerable to change due to global warming possibly initiating another ice age
- lakes/water sources drying up
- 10 hottest years recorded of all time have been in the last 14 years

What I've observed myself

- tornado in NY(hasnt been one since 1889)
- record hurricane season
- heat waves worldwide(europe especially)

With all this evidence availible some people are still skeptical of a major environmental collapse and assume G.W. is just a theory. I dont understand their position or if they are getting kickbacks from the oil companies but I find it repulsive that some people will dismiss to even debate the subject.

The problem lies with the energy companies and their lack of motivation to influence research into new energy solutions. They wont be the ones that find the solution we will have to do it ourselves as any new energy probably hurts their overall bottom line.[/quotee82003b3c7]

I agree 100%. We do not even oil/gasoline. Plenty of alternatives, but the oil industry doesn't like that.

KnightTrader

10-08-2007 12:45:32

Global warming is hyped up. Don't base your opinion on a single movie. Watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle' and hear the other side of the argument.

TryinToGetPaid

10-08-2007 12:50:39

How come when it gets hot outside everyone assumes its global warming? The record temperatures for my city are from 1937, but I guess they had global warming with all the gas they burned...

good2speed

10-08-2007 12:55:16

[quote5aff17749a="KnightTrader"]Global warming is hyped up. Don't base your opinion on a single movie. Watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle' and hear the other side of the argument.[/quote5aff17749a]

what is the other side of the argument. I personally don't understand it. Are we suppose to keep burning gas and watch the caps melt.

If G.W. is hyped up then why do why are we searching for alt sources like geothermal heating and fuel celled cars? If G.W. is hyped up why even bother spending money into these technologies if there is no environmental improvement?

manOFice

10-08-2007 12:55:19

105 in charlotte!

Gobal warming? I think so

skepticalcynic

10-08-2007 13:07:13

My issue with fossil fuels has nothing to do with global warming - it's simply this - the more substance we take out of the earth structure under our feet, the weaker that structure becomes.

As for global warming, I understand the evidence and the arguments, but much of the effect is naturally occurring. The Earth's landscapes and climates change in cycles over long periods of time. Periods of tropical conditions, ice-ages, eras of barren expanse - these are all cyclical. My theory is that it all boils down to thermodynamics (no pun intended). Whenever energy is converted from one form to another, whenever energy is "used", a portion of it is lost as heat. I've had that drilled into my head since basic physics. But we also know that energy never disappears, it only changes. So the energy that is "lost as heat" has merely been converted to heat. Every process of animal and plant life creates this "heat" as a bi-product. Slowly, over time, the heat begins to build - kind of like a steam boiler - and when the heat energy reaches a critical point in the Earth's atmosphere, the result is rapid climactic changes. Like the steam boiler that gets too hot, the atmosphere "explodes" to release all of that heat build-up. The result is that there is no longer the heat in the atmosphere necessary to maintain the climate, so the Earth is thrown into a period of intense cold - an "ice-age".

That being said - the more rapid progress of global warming can be traced to 2 very distinct causes. First, the industrial revolution. Not only do you have plants and animals creating heat, but now you've got machines that create great quantities of excess heat. Thus a faster build-up. Second, tremendous and rapid population growth. There used to be very few human beings roaming around the Earth expelling heat - now there are billions! Again much greater amount of heat by-product.

The fact that global warming has now become more noticeable is merely because of the new capacity we have to actually measure it.

gambit00x

10-08-2007 13:27:11

[quote265704a345]

I agree 100%. We do not even oil/gasoline. Plenty of alternatives, but the oil industry doesn't like that.[/quote265704a345]

Wow don't even get me started on electric cars. Here's the wikipedia article
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed_the_Electric_Car%3F

Wolfeman

10-08-2007 14:10:50

[quote7e046ff092="KnightTrader"]Global warming is hyped up. Don't base your opinion on a single movie. Watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle' and hear the other side of the argument.[/quote7e046ff092]
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3028847519933351566

Veek

10-08-2007 16:09:59

We didn't even get any normal amount of rain in Los Angeles this winter. I was so pissed.

doylnea

10-08-2007 19:19:13

[quoted22130d0df="KnightTrader"]Global warming is hyped up. Don't base your opinion on a single movie. Watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle' and hear the other side of the argument.[/quoted22130d0df]

I would love to debate this, but I'll recycle my past points about this for now, and see where it leads.

We have more than enough data to suggest that Global Climate Change / Warming is real. Here are a couple of bullets points and a couple of other comments...

according to NOAA, 2005 had
[listd22130d0df][lid22130d0df]Warmest average global temperature on record
[lid22130d0df]Lowest Northern Hemisphere sea ice extent on record
[lid22130d0df]Highest number of named storms and hurricanes in Atlantic on record
[lid22130d0df]Northwest U.S. snowpack less than 50% of normal[/listud22130d0df]
Even more to the point, global temperature has risen 0.6C (1.1F) since 1900, and the rate of increase has tripled over the past 30 years. But, it's easy to dismiss the data as just illustrative of the past 100 years, as a cyclical event, but if you look at the data there's a distinct upward trend since the industrial revolution. I don't have the data here, but I'll grab the charts for the past few hundred years that show an increase in global CO2, temperature and "greenhouse gas" tomorrow if anyone's interested. Furthermore, it's hard to dismiss Science's thorough review of the record[=http//www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/306/5702/1686] thorough review of the record which shows all of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, all major scientific bodies in the United States, and 928 refereed articles either agree, or do not refute global climate change caused by humans.

Furthermore, even places like junkscience.com include charts on their website like this one that show the effects of global warming
http//www.junkscience.com/Greenhouse/GHCN-ERSST.gif[" alt=""/imgd22130d0df]

Finally, that the hole in the ozone is smaller, or not of concern can be statistically attributed to late 1980's ban of CFCs.

DIABLO

10-08-2007 19:37:44

Ok, right after 1940 there was an industrial boom...

1. Why did the temperature rise before cars and other electronics even invented?

2. Wouldn't that make the temperature shoot up if everybody started getting cars and producing more Co2? Why did it drop down?

3. During Medevil times the temperatures were much higher than they are now, we still have ice, we still have oceans, we still have penguins, they obviously survived that, what's the big deal? Everybody is making a huge deal out of 1 degree when it was up a ton more during Medevil times.

I'm not saying global warming isn't here or that co2 and greenhouse gasses don't affect it, but I highly doubt that more than 10% of it is causes by cars and everything.

Big War Bird

10-08-2007 20:52:04

[quote9e8846a61d]10 hottest years recorded of all time have been in the last 14 years [/quote9e8846a61d]

This is not true. Just in the last couple days NASA release revised figues that show the the hottest year on record was 1934. And 5 of the hottest 10 years on record were before WW2.

doylnea

10-08-2007 21:31:46

[quote50fa867b27="Big War Bird"][quote50fa867b27]10 hottest years recorded of all time have been in the last 14 years [/quote50fa867b27]

This is not true. Just in the last couple days NASA release revised figues that show the the hottest year on record was 1934. And 5 of the hottest 10 years on record were before WW2.[/quote50fa867b27]

Inconvenient Truth was released in 2006 - your data is 2 days old; the fact that your data is newer doesn't make it more accurate Btw, I'd love to see a link to that study.

Big War Bird

10-08-2007 21:39:11

[quotecf251e80bf="doylnea"][quotecf251e80bf="Big War Bird"][quotecf251e80bf]10 hottest years recorded of all time have been in the last 14 years [/quotecf251e80bf]

This is not true. Just in the last couple days NASA release revised figues that show the the hottest year on record was 1934. And 5 of the hottest 10 years on record were before WW2.[/quotecf251e80bf]

Inconvenient Truth was released in 2006 - your data is 2 days old; the fact that your data is newer doesn't make it more accurate Btw, I'd love to see a link to that study.[/quotecf251e80bf]

http//data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/Fig.D.txt

JayKanish

10-08-2007 21:47:20

Global warming being "hyped-up" depends on what source you gather your information from.

Expert Point A-Our global temperature is raising at an alarming pace.
Expert Counterpoint A~The planet has climate fluctuations once every few centuries. We are currently coming out of what some "experts" call "The Little Ice Age".

Expert Point B-Our glaciers are melting due to our global climate change and are causing rising sea levels.
Expert Counterpoint B~One of the only glaciers with a seriously notable melting speed is Kilimanjaro and the main cause to that is due to the deforestation of the local rainforests which allow drafts of dryer and warmer to reach into the local atmosphere, causing melting. Also, the sea levels in some areas have risen while the sea levels in others have fallen.

Expert Point C- Our icecaps are melting due to the climate change.
Expert Counterpoint C- The icecaps have always been melting, they are surrounded by moving water. They are refreezing however in other places.

I found some of this a couple months back for a report I did on Global Warming as I had thought the world was in immediate danger from massive floods and rogue weather patterns. Finding the conflicting expert points however, I decided that no one actaully knows what they think they know and that no matter what point can be raised with hardcore facts about Global Warming, another Counter Point can be raised by hardcore facts arguing against or refuting that point. I can produce sources for this if needed but it's getting late right now. In short, my opinion is that global warming is a serious problem that needs to be addressed...you know, once we stop fucking shooting each other long enough to figure out an answer.

skepticalcynic

11-08-2007 05:51:50

[quotec8181b48c2="JayKanish"] In short, my opinion is that global warming is a serious problem that needs to be addressed...you know, once we stop fucking shooting each other long enough to figure out an answer.[/quotec8181b48c2]

I think that's the best summation of the situation I've ever seen.

Hear! Hear! o

Wolfeman

13-08-2007 14:25:55

Global warming is happening, fact. Are we causing it? Probably not...

Sstaceyrae21

18-08-2007 13:43:08

Well I'm not one on debating - but I can use a little local warming. It is August and the last three days have not even gotten to 65- I had frost on my garden this morning and lost some of my veggies that I was so waiting for. I would love a little warming-,it should be at least 80 still!

DIABLO

18-08-2007 15:14:39

[quote2a092d6866="Sstaceyrae21"]Well I'm not one on debating - but I can use a little local warming. It is August and the last three days have not even gotten to 65- I had frost on my garden this morning and lost some of my veggies that I was so waiting for. I would love a little warming-,it should be at least 80 still![/quote2a092d6866]

It's been warm all year, it gets warm and cold earlier than normal, hopefully we get some snow this year /

zdub08

18-08-2007 18:18:06

snow is only cool on christmas anyway

Sstaceyrae21

18-08-2007 19:34:56

Lets not talk snow already!!! last year it was too cold here is wisconsin to even snow. We have snowmobiles and only rode them once! Talk about making payments on something you cant use and not the even mention the insurance we pay!

DIABLO

18-08-2007 19:39:44

[quote724d98cf10="Sstaceyrae21"]Lets not talk snow already!!! last year it was too cold here is wisconsin to even snow. We have snowmobiles and only rode them once! Talk about making payments on something you cant use and not the even mention the insurance we pay![/quote724d98cf10]

Too cold to snow? Huh? / Here in NY we got snow like 2 times and that's all (

jordan90

19-08-2007 13:07:54

[quotef8e99488d0="Sstaceyrae21"]Lets not talk snow already!!! last year it was too cold here is wisconsin to even snow. We have snowmobiles and only rode them once! Talk about making payments on something you cant use and not the even mention the insurance we pay![/quotef8e99488d0]

Yeah last year was definitely bad here in the cheese state. We had lots of days off of school because of the cold. Someone also started a fire in my school during the winter so we had even more time off. The funny thing is, one boy who was riding his bike to the school to help start the fire got so cold he couldn't make it the whole way so he ended up getting picked up by a cop.

gambit00x

20-08-2007 00:20:13

[quote8e0ffb7aaf="jordan90"]...one boy who was riding his bike to the school to help start the fire got so cold he couldn't make it the whole way so he ended up getting picked up by a cop.[/quote8e0ffb7aaf]

Lol. Arrested for riding with frostbite!! j/k

skepticalcynic

20-08-2007 07:20:16

Not all of the seasonal changes are due to global warming. Every hundred-and-something to two hundred years, the seasons start to move. That's why it seems to be getting hotter earlier AND colder earlier. In the 18th century (I think) the solution that was decided upon was to omit an entire month from the year. It was either September or October, I can't remember which. Forgive my sketchy information, it's been a long time...

good2speed

21-08-2007 11:35:06

[quote7e4238e242="Wolfeman"][quote7e4238e242="KnightTrader"]Global warming is hyped up. Don't base your opinion on a single movie. Watch "The Great Global Warming Swindle' and hear the other side of the argument.[/quote7e4238e242]
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3028847519933351566[/quote7e4238e242]

I just saw this video and was utterly bored. The way they presented their views was done in a very boring way and did little to change my beliefs. The only part of the review that I felt held any weight was the theory that developed nations introduced the theory of GW so that the underdeveloped nations would not use scarce resources such as oil or coal. This makes business sense as I can see top powers restricting the use of these reources by the poorer countries so that the richer countries will continue to thrive.

The video did nothing however to explain how coral reefs are dying worldwide and how that is effecting local populations that rely ont he fishiong to survive. Nor did it help explain the severe droughts experienced in some areas. Even people in Fiji who have no idea of the theory of GW have said they have noticed severe climate changes and as a result their island which had been self sufficient for a long time is now starting to lose its capabilities to survive..

JayKanish

21-08-2007 12:37:29

I'm not disputing the existence of global warming. What I'm disputing here is the cause. Our ability to record weather data is relatively young in planetary terms. The fluctuations in the enviroment (seasons getting longer or shorter, increases or decreases in the global temperatures) may be perfectly natural in way our world fluctuates. Some things with global warming are just too vaguely outlined to influence my decision making.

bruman

21-08-2007 12:44:43

I wish it was hotter.. I need to work on my tan!

MyungChunHa

21-08-2007 13:17:28

[quoteb5dc11abec="JayKanish"]I'm not disputing the existence of global warming. What I'm disputing here is the cause. Our ability to record weather data is relatively young in planetary terms. The fluctuations in the enviroment (seasons getting longer or shorter, increases or decreases in the global temperatures) may be perfectly natural in way our world fluctuates. Some things with global warming are just too vaguely outlined to influence my decision making.[/quoteb5dc11abec]
Yes exactly. Global warming has happened before and it is happening again, explain why during the peak of CO2 admissions did the temperature drop? It jsut doesn't add up that what humans do to the earth affect climate.

It is very possible but not likely, as the earth omits much, much more CO2 than humans.

Also, that video presenting itself as very boring is hardly an arguement. Facts don't have to be entertaining, just true and if you dismiss something because it's not flashy then you sir are a moron.

good2speed

21-08-2007 13:24:54

[quote063f210441="MyungChunHa"]
Yes exactly. Global warming has happened before and it is happening again, explain why during the peak of CO2 admissions did the temperature drop? It jsut doesn't add up that what humans do to the earth affect climate.

It is very possible but not likely, as the earth omits much, much more CO2 than humans.
[/quote063f210441]

I hardly think the burning of fossil fuels is helping the environment. Instead of arguing whether or not fossils fuels may or may not effect the environment, we might as well just play it safe and not burn so much damn fuel. Why play russian roulette if you yourself aren't sure of the outcome.

[quote063f210441="MyungChunHa"]
Also, that video presenting itself as very boring is hardly an arguement. [/quote063f210441]

I didn't say I dismissed because it was boring, which it was. I dismissed because it really did not even remotely change my beliefs.

[quote063f210441="MyungChunHa"]
if you dismiss something because it's not flashy then you sir are a moron.[/quote063f210441]

still bitter about the lebron bet. ) cheer up we dont have to insult each other even if we have differing opinions.

JayKanish

21-08-2007 13:28:25

I agree that we need to cut down on the use of fossil fuels but not because of global warming. But I agree with you that it just can't be good for the enviroment.

doylnea

21-08-2007 16:50:43

[quote74b87da686="JayKanish"]I'm not disputing the existence of global warming. What I'm disputing here is the cause. Our ability to record weather data is relatively young in planetary terms. The fluctuations in the enviroment (seasons getting longer or shorter, increases or decreases in the global temperatures) may be perfectly natural in way our world fluctuates. Some things with global warming are just too vaguely outlined to influence my decision making.[/quote74b87da686]

There's absolutely no dispute that higher miles driven have contributed to higher CO2 emissions to higher levels than ever recorded, (and I'm talking about ice-cores going back hundreds of thousands of years). There's similarly no dispute that higher CO2 levels lead to higher levels of greenhouse gases.

Highway fuel consumption increased 62 percent between 1973 and 2005, and highway green house gas emissions increased nearly 40 percent between 1990 and 2005. The transportation sector accounts for two-thirds of U.S. oil consumption, and motor vehicles alone for 44 percent.

doylnea

21-08-2007 16:57:40

[quote22e1b7caf5="MyungChunHa"]Yes exactly. Global warming has happened before and it is happening again, explain why during the peak of CO2 admissions did the temperature drop? It jsut doesn't add up that what humans do to the earth affect climate.[/quote22e1b7caf5]

I presume you meant, [i22e1b7caf5]emissions[/i22e1b7caf5]. The reason that the temperature fluctuates is because there's a lag effect between changes in atmospheric CO2 and greenhouse gases, and reflections in temperature. [b22e1b7caf5]That's precisely the reason why we need to make consumption and emissions changes immediately, because the correction time is pretty far out at this point.[/b22e1b7caf5] That is to say, even if we cut CO2 emissions 6-10% as most respected scientists suggest, today, we won't see a stabilizing global temperature for several years.

good2speed

21-08-2007 17:47:54

[quoteb0f72441e3="doylnea"] That is to say, even if we cut CO2 emissions 6-10% as most respected scientists suggest, today, we won't see a stabilizing global temperature for several years.[/quoteb0f72441e3]

or we may have already gone off the deep end already and there is nothing we can do to reverse the effect.

TryinToGetPaid

21-08-2007 18:50:36

Or the weather and temperatures are in a cycle -- they are the same as they were in the 30s....