SiCKO - New Michael Moore Film

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=64937

theysayjump

19-06-2007 20:29:58

Anyone seen it yet?

I know it hasn't been released yet, but it was leaked online a few days ago all over torrent sites and is now viewable (i.e, watch it online) on various different sites.

I watched it a couple of days ago and it's pretty good. The reviews of it have been mostly good also, even FOX News are praising it.

Before I got my current job (well actually up until April 1st this year) I'd been ineligible for health benefits and hadn't seen a doctor in almost four years. I'm thankful that I'm in good health and not particularly accident prone because this film opened my eyes slightly about what could've happened to me without benefits.

It actually made me kind of scared to live here not knowing if tomorrow something happens to me whether I'll be covered or not, or if I'll be plunged into massive debt.

h3x

19-06-2007 20:38:20

When is it supposed to be released?

Kidd

19-06-2007 20:43:21

its leaked to hell on every torrent site.

its supposed to be released real soon i read an article in the new york post while on the subway 2day.

good2speed

19-06-2007 20:43:34

Im not a Bush fan but Mike Moore should go stab himself with a rusty screwdriver.

He always does everything for shock value. WTF is his problem. Everyone know health care in the US sucks. So he tries going to Guantanamo to get health care? Then better yet accept assistance from a "3rd world country" Cuban country?

Let me guess his next ground shattering film.. Its Either

A) America's energy crisis and how Bush fucked it up.
B) VTech shooting. America still uncured...

h3x

19-06-2007 20:52:24

Would it have made any difference to you if he had brought them to Iceland or the DPRK instead? (Both countries have free socialized medicine).

Iceland is a "1st world country" if that helps any ;)

skepticalcynic

19-06-2007 21:10:09

People who live in countries with "free socialized medicine" pay ridiculously high taxes to cover it. No American would ever pay those kind of tax rates - we already have people trying to not have to pay taxes at all.

And - knowing someone who was diagnosed with a serious disease in such a "caring" country - I can attest to the fact that socialized medicine is great if you never get sick. People with serious illnesses have to wait sometimes [ibb47410ee4]years[/ibb47410ee4] to get appointments with specialists or for life-saving surgeries.

I have no health insurance myself at this time, but I love the fact that I can choose to see the best experts in the world for whatever ails me - and I have done so recently AND paid out of pocket for it. Expensive, yes - especially without insurance - but sooooo worth it!

(By the way - my annual income is less than most people's starting salaries because of the low cost of living here. So no, I'm not rich enough to not care how much a doctor visit costs.)

h3x

19-06-2007 21:19:19

[quote1b02b23db5="skepticalcynic"]People who live in countries with "free socialized medicine" pay ridiculously high taxes to cover it. No American would ever pay those kind of tax rates - we already have people trying to not have to pay taxes at all.

And - knowing someone who was diagnosed with a serious disease in such a "caring" country - I can attest to the fact that socialized medicine is great if you never get sick. People with serious illnesses have to wait sometimes [i1b02b23db5]years[/i1b02b23db5] to get appointments with specialists or for life-saving surgeries.

I have no health insurance myself at this time, but I love the fact that I can choose to see the best experts in the world for whatever ails me - and I have done so recently AND paid out of pocket for it. Expensive, yes - especially without insurance - but sooooo worth it!

(By the way - my annual income is less than most people's starting salaries because of the low cost of living here. So no, I'm not rich enough to not care how much a doctor visit costs.)[/quote1b02b23db5].

Iceland is highly taxed, but its within reason. There is no Income Tax in Iceland and the source of socialized medicine comes from Sales Tax. Also, there is no waiting list in Iceland for health care (Canada and the UK on the other hand has a waiting list).

[quote1b02b23db5]No American would ever pay those kind of tax rates - we already have people trying to not have to pay taxes at all.[/quote1b02b23db5]

I'm an American and I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes for a socialized health system and I know quite a few that wouldn't mind either.

justinag06

19-06-2007 21:22:00

I really liked bowling for columbine, i will probably check this out. Isn't he making another Fahrenheit 9/11 movie too?

theysayjump

19-06-2007 21:40:09

[quoteb1a0d7715b="skepticalcynic"]People who live in countries with "free socialized medicine" pay ridiculously high taxes to cover it. No American would ever pay those kind of tax rates - we already have people trying to not have to pay taxes at all.

And - knowing someone who was diagnosed with a serious disease in such a "caring" country - I can attest to the fact that socialized medicine is great if you never get sick. People with serious illnesses have to wait sometimes [ib1a0d7715b]years[/ib1a0d7715b] to get appointments with specialists or for life-saving surgeries.

I have no health insurance myself at this time, but I love the fact that I can choose to see the best experts in the world for whatever ails me - and I have done so recently AND paid out of pocket for it. Expensive, yes - especially without insurance - but sooooo worth it!

(By the way - my annual income is less than most people's starting salaries because of the low cost of living here. So no, I'm not rich enough to not care how much a doctor visit costs.)[/quoteb1a0d7715b]

Right.

Knowing someone in a country with socialised health care makes you an expert? Living in one for more than 22 years I'd like to think I know a little bit about how it works, at least in my country.

We don't pay ridiculously high taxes to cover it. My first job paid me roughly $13 an hour to work in a stockroom and I'd get taxed about 21% of my month's cheque, so I'd walk away with just less than $1,500 a month. My current job, after taking off local tax, school tax, state tax, federal tax, 2 other taxes and paying for my health benefits (which are the cheapest I could select) pays me roughly $850 a month, and I can't even guarantee that if something happens to me that I'll be covered for it.

I'd rather pay higher taxes for the entire country to have healthcare, than be a selfish little prick and only pay for myself to have average healthcare.

Also, your statement that you love the fact that you can choose from the best experts in the world is very ignorant as it implies that this country has the best medical experts in the world, which taken at face value isn't true. There are thousands upon thousands of incredibly gifted and talented doctors, nurses, surgeons etc all over the world and you can find just as good, if not better healthcare in other countries as you can here.

h3x

19-06-2007 21:50:55

Also... Last time I checked, Iceland Sales Tax is only 14% (which is only 5% more than Washington State)... and the Icelandic Kronur is actually stronger than the U.S. Dollar (100 KR = $1.62 USD).

So, it may sound steep to you (skepticalcynic) but to people that have lived in a country with socialized medicine, its worth every penny.

dmorris68

19-06-2007 21:52:40

While I agree there is great room for improvement in the US healthcare system, Michael Moore is a sensationalistic asshole who should move to Cuba as far as I'm concerned. He is the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.




(damn, first the death penalty thread, and now this -- that's enough ranting from me tonight, it's past my bedtime)

michae229

19-06-2007 21:56:00

Great movie i am for free health care in the states!!!!

Like what the old man said if we can dig up money to fight we can also do it to help each other.

h3x

19-06-2007 21:57:49

[quoted873cde0c6="dmorris68"](damn, first the death penalty thread, and now this -- that's enough ranting from me tonight, it's past my bedtime)[/quoted873cde0c6]

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/ffcecebd4fdd92fc763ff24ff1c8d1b0.gif[" alt=""/imgd873cde0c6]

good2speed

19-06-2007 21:58:51

[quoted9e80d0c60="h3x"]Would it have made any difference to you if he had brought them to Iceland or the DPRK instead? (Both countries have free socialized medicine).

Iceland is a "1st world country" if that helps any ;)[/quoted9e80d0c60]

I dont care where he takes them. Its just that he refers to Cuba as a third world country. Then he goes on a political detour to show us that Cuba is actually good and we are taught at an early age to think negatively of Cubans.

I will give him credit for having the balls to travel to Guantanamo on a boat. He even shot video of Guanatanamo air strip and prison/hospital but this guy is a nutjob.

I wouldn't mind him so much if he kept focused and didn't bring his disenchantment with Bush's world policies into all of his films. Seems like he still has an axe to grind with Bush and the US as a whole. In a film about health care I dont need to hear about how our relations with Cuba are messed up since the focus should be on improving US healthcare not finding alternative foreign solutions. I also don't need to hear about how we are suppose to hate France and how it somehow correlates with the US govt not wanting us to adopt france's socialist health care. Like you have to search as far as France for socialized medicine when you have Canada already to your north.

This film should've been about US national health care but at times there was a lot of discussion of US foreign policy. Leave the foreign politics out of it Mike this is a film about trying to improve healthcare for all Americans not a film about improving US foreign relations.

[quoted9e80d0c60="dmorris68"]While I agree there is great room for improvement in the US healthcare system, Michael Moore is a sensationalistic asshole who should move to Cuba as far as I'm concerned. He is the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.[/quoted9e80d0c60]

Glad Im not the only one who feels this way

theysayjump

19-06-2007 22:00:34

[quote89bc59b60d="dmorris68"]While I agree there is great room for improvement in the US healthcare system, Michael Moore is a sensationalistic asshole who should move to Cuba as far as I'm concerned. He is the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.




(damn, first the death penalty thread, and now this -- that's enough ranting from me tonight, it's past my bedtime)[/quote89bc59b60d]

While I agree that MM is sensationalistic, I'd have to disagree that he's "the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.", but I get your point.

What's wrong with Cuba again, I'd love to visit it?

h3x

19-06-2007 22:07:59

I don't care much for Moore either, but I can appreciate a documentary that compares the U.S. health system to a Socialized health system... I'll check it out sometime this week.

dmorris68

20-06-2007 08:18:46

[quote865e6475cf="theysayjump"][quote865e6475cf="dmorris68"]While I agree there is great room for improvement in the US healthcare system, Michael Moore is a sensationalistic asshole who should move to Cuba as far as I'm concerned. He is the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.




(damn, first the death penalty thread, and now this -- that's enough ranting from me tonight, it's past my bedtime)[/quote865e6475cf]

While I agree that MM is sensationalistic, I'd have to disagree that he's "the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.", but I get your point.

What's wrong with Cuba again, I'd love to visit it?[/quote865e6475cf]
I don't have a problem with the Cuban people of course, and it's a beautiful country that I would love to visit too. I just have a major problem with Castro's socialism and dictatorship.

I know quite a few Cubans who could give you an earful about what life is like there. My point was that since Moore seems to hate everything about America and praises Cuba's healthcare system, that he should just do us all a favor and move there. Or anywhere, I don't care. Just out of my sight.

KeithA

20-06-2007 08:36:52

What about Michael Moore's body of work suggests that he hates America? I ask in all sincerity, as I haven't seen any of his work.

dmorris68

20-06-2007 09:56:04

[quote791b597715="KeithA"]What about Michael Moore's body of work suggests that he hates America? I ask in all sincerity, as I haven't seen any of his work.[/quote791b597715]
"hates America" is probably a strong term, but it's a widely held sentiment among the anti-Moore crowd.

His entire public career, starting with Roger & Me, has revolved around sensationalized criticism of some form of American culture & politics. Whether it be outsourcing, gun control, 9/11, foreign policy & war, and now healthcare, he thrives on controversy and is not above fabricating or "tweaking" facts to support his agenda. You could argue that politicians, and the current administration in particular, are guilty of the same -- but when you pass yourself off as some sort of "voice of the people" who's aim it is to educate the public as to the realities of American shame, yet you tend to be just as disingenuous as those you purport to expose, then you're even worse IMO. You do not take editorial license with facts and pass them off as a "documentary" which by definition should be impartial and based upon objective fact.

Even his only non-"documentary" film, Canadian Bacon, starred Alan Alda as President who faked war with Canada to boost his ratings. This was in 1995. As the Wikipedia article I post below shows, they even make light of a "war on terrorism" in the movie, long before we had focused any significant resources on fighting terrorism. Although this was considered a fictional comedy, his agenda shows through plain and clear.

I thought Roger & Me was intriguing when I first saw it, but I was young and mostly ignorant of the policies and politics behind it, which is what I fear of most of his rabid followers -- they have no clue, and just believe whatever he tells them. Which is ironically what he accuses the American public of doing with their politicians.

Bowling for Columbine is where I started really losing respect for him. The final straw for me though was Fahrenheit 9/11, when among other things he took advantage of veterans who fought in Iraq, and their families, by taking interviews out of context in order to paint a picture that the troops did not support the war or the cause. Several lawsuits resulted. As a veteran myself, that was an unforgivable offense. It's fine to criticize your country's war policies, and disagree with war in general, but when you stoop to the level he did in this case to actually (mis)use veterans to make your point, it strikes a nerve that cannot be forgotten.

The web is full of both pro and anti Moore sites. As expected, both sides are quite rabid and frequently irrational in their views, so take either with a grain of salt. That said, here are a couple of quick anti-Moore links that touch on some of his controversial work.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Moore_controversies
http//slate.com/id/2102723
http//www.moorewatch.com
http//www.mooreexposed.com

My point with the "hates America" comment is that people like Moore who go to the dishonest extremes that he does to be divisive, finding fault at every turn with American culture and policy (and not just confined to one administration or political party -- plenty of dems and cons despise him equally), then IMO you're doing so for one of two reasons

1. Attention/fame/money, which means your message isn't sincere. As a punishment you should be deported to a place that deprives you of either.

2. You truly hate the country you live in. Therefore, leave.

topbillin1

20-06-2007 10:00:15

I've seen the movie but I heard he's a big liar... I don't know anything else about him.

The movie basically shits on America pretty hard, he goes to all these other countries and finds supporters and former Americans who basically crap on America. I do agree with the American greed message that he speaks but I think he goes overboard with his hate towards America....

I was pretty amazed by the movie though, I recommend everyone to see it.

topbillin1

20-06-2007 10:03:22

You guys have to admit that health care here in the USA is thru the roof and not to be mean to anyone but we are losing good paying jobs everyday to overseas....

America is basically going backwards, education isn't taught and respected as it used to be and no one can pay these medical bills.....

hehehhehe

20-06-2007 10:07:59

[quote098c1df815="theysayjump"]While I agree that MM is sensationalistic, I'd have to disagree that he's "the biggest, lying hypocrite on the face of the planet.", but I get your point.[/quote098c1df815]
While I agree he goes too far at times and he is out for money and fame as anyone else, I think the messages he conveys are true.
Roger & Me - Look where GM is now.
The Big One - Look at all of the corporate scandals that have come out since. Child labor, Enron, Worldcom, etc...
Columbine - Vtech
Fahrenheit 911 - This can be a touchy subject for people here but you know what I'm getting at. All I can say is look at Bush's approval rating, even Republicans are bailing on him.

I thought about making a post about healthcare here in the US as I started going through the system again recently for a recurring problem I have. I had always been a very healthy person for a very long time and it would be years between I had to visit a doctor. Even then, it was for sports injuries and minor stuff like that. So I always felt that the US had a great system because I never had to use it, but now I know better. This is coming from a person who has had to defend the US in so many conversations with anti-American people in Europe.

(I have way too many things to be able to say right now but here are some poorly organized thoughts I have on this.)

I've lived in France where admittedly the taxes are high, people do abuse the system by going to doctors when they don't need to, and some facilities do look underfunded like Walter Reed. It's not a perfect sytem but I think it's better for most people. The most important thing is that I had a feeling that the doctors gave a shit about you there whereas in the US, I get the feeling that I am just a part of some money making chain involving the doctor's office, pharmaceutical companies, and the insurance companies. Insurance companies here in the US are out to make money off of you, not to give you the best medical care. If you disagree with that comment, you are being naive. When it comes down to it, you're set if you are rich because you are able to pay for special procedures and drugs that insurance won't cover. By rich, I mean really rich, not 'well off for where I live' rich.

When I was backpacking with a bunch of friends in Europe, one of my friends came down with something in France. He was American, but all he had to do was find a doctor's office where we were and walk in. They treated him right away (less than a ER wait here in the US) and gave him some drugs and he felt good afterwards. All this was done for free. Imagine doing that in the US.

It's hard to find a good doctor, and when you do find one, expect to wait for weeks (3-4) to get an appointment.

And god, the FDA... We pay so much more for prescription drugs as compared to Canadians and the FDA has deemed it illegal for Americans to order from their pharmacies. Many states actually link to canadian pharmacies on their health services website to save their citizens money.

I understand the pharmas need to have incentives to keep producing new drugs.

I wish they would stop diagnosing kids for ADD and feeding them shit like Ritalin so they can raise a new generation of pill poppers.

[quote098c1df815="KeithA"]What about Michael Moore's body of work suggests that he hates America? I ask in all sincerity, as I haven't seen any of his work.[/quote098c1df815]
I see that often from his critics, who don't like the way he criticizes elements of american society. Who likes to often say that a certain group of people hates America? Freaks like Anne Coulter. I would heed no attention to anyone who uses such broad based judgements because there are people that do not like the way things are going in the country.

I haven't seen Sicko yet but will do so soon. Too busy going through all the Sopranos episodes. wink I just found out on imdb that Fahrenheit 9/11 is coming out next year.

JUNIOR6886

20-06-2007 10:24:56

i'll check it out despite moore's douche baggery

michae229

20-06-2007 11:03:28

[quote48ac2acdc5="JUNIOR6886"]i'll check it out despite moore's douche baggery[/quote48ac2acdc5]

its a good movie and if it does change the health industry he will be a transcending person that changes America like a John Steinbeck or somthing and no one can really deny that.

yea people says he lie but what is there to lie about?

one more thing yea he probly wants fame but i mean come one why do people run for office lol.

good2speed

20-06-2007 11:07:00

[quote9dd15ab342="dmorris68"] [/quote9dd15ab342]

Ive never seen you that heated in an argument. Mike Moore really strikes your nerve. I think MM is an ass too though.

[quote9dd15ab342="topbillin1"]You guys have to admit that health care here in the USA is thru the roof [/quote9dd15ab342]

I do amit it but I dont need a Mike Moore doc to realize it.

[quote9dd15ab342="topbillin1"]
and not to be mean to anyone but we are losing good paying jobs everyday to overseas....[/quote9dd15ab342]

Yes we are losing technical resources to oversee employess but to think Indian call centers are ruining the US job market is ridiculous. Call centers are entry level jobs and shouldnt effect US job market significantly..

One of the reason the Multinational corporations are looking for foreign technical resources is because America produces too few. And those that have the technical capabilities charge throught he roof. Try $120/hr + expenses(flight, meals,rentalcars/taxi) for a Functional Consultant. At these prices I dont blame the MNC's for looking into foreign resources.

The options for these MNC's are to outsource the work or to push congress to allow more H1 visas for foreign workers to work in the US. Until the US catches up with the abundance of technical resources that Asia produces it will continue to outsource, especially at a steep financial discount.

I dont need Mike Morre to understand this situation either

[quote9dd15ab342="topbillin1"]
America is basically going backwards, education isn't taught and respected as it used to be and no one can pay these medical bills.....[/quote9dd15ab342]

People are given education. What they do with it is their choice. I went to the same schools as all Americans have.

[quote9dd15ab342="hehehhehe"] Insurance companies here in the US are out to make money off of you, not to give you the best medical care. If you disagree with that comment, you are being naive.[/quote9dd15ab342]

No shit. I thought Geico/other insurance companies were spending mllions on advertising campaigns so that they can help us in car accidents. Im sure there incentive is not to make some money. I mean what did you think the insurance companies were NPO's(non-profit)? These insurance companies are in the business to make money. While there practices may be unethical on many occassions it still does not exclude them from existing for the sole purpose of making a profit.

[quote9dd15ab342="hehehhehe"]
I understand the pharmas need to have incentives to keep producing new drugs.[/quote9dd15ab342]

that is key. If you dont have insurance companies controlling their own money then it will be hard to pump in a lot of money for R&D. Also if it is governmentally over regulated then some cures/treatments may never be discovered.

dmorris68

20-06-2007 11:16:08

[quote1a5979bad3="michae229"][quote1a5979bad3="JUNIOR6886"]i'll check it out despite moore's douche baggery[/quote1a5979bad3]

its a good movie and if it does change the health industry he will be a transcending person that changes America like a John Steinbeck or somthing and no one can really deny that.

yea people says he lie but what is there to lie about?

one more thing yea he probly wants fame but i mean come one why do people run for office lol.[/quote1a5979bad3]
Ouch, the naivete is astounding. lol

It won't "change" the health industry. It might bring it to the forefront of conversation again, which is a good thing, but only until the next big social crisis hits at which time it will be set aside like before. Until we have a government willing to do something about it, and the will of the people behind it, it won't change. Certainly not from someone like Moore, who has no credibility outside of entertainment circles.

What is there to lie about? The man will lie about any and everything that makes him appear important and relevant.

As far as fame, I'd say not all politicians start out wanting fame. In fact, few if any do. Many have a genuine desire to help or make a difference, and I say that about those that I disagree with as well. Others want the power, which is quite different than fame. But the ultimate problem is that politics is a self-corrupting enterprise, and by the time you get to the highest levels it's virtually impossible to have clean hands, otherwise you would have been trampled long before. So, as cliche as it sounds, it becomes a "lesser of evils" scenario where you have to pick out the scumbag that a little less scummier than the rest and who also supports most of your positions on the issues.

dmorris68

20-06-2007 11:24:52

[quote95f17abd18="good2speed"]Ive never seen you that heated in an argument. Mike Moore really strikes your nerve. I think MM is an ass too though.[/quote95f17abd18]
I love an intelligent debate, but I try to avoid charged debate on public forums with people I don't know. They tend to devolve into ignorant and immature flame-fests (on both sides) which completely overshadows the importance of the topic being discussed. This one has progressed fairly civilly thus far, and yes, MM is a sore spot with me, so I couldn't resist. )

hehehhehe

20-06-2007 11:33:28

[quote3a96c4f8dd="good2speed"][quote3a96c4f8dd="hehehhehe"] Insurance companies here in the US are out to make money off of you, not to give you the best medical care. If you disagree with that comment, you are being naive.[/quote3a96c4f8dd]

No shit. I thought Geico/other insurance companies were spending mllions on advertising campaigns so that they can help us in car accidents. Im sure there incentive is not to make some money. I mean what did you think the insurance companies were NPO's(non-profit)? These insurance companies are in the business to make money. While there practices may be unethical on many occassions it still does not exclude them from existing for the sole purpose of making a profit.
[/quote3a96c4f8dd]
What's with the tone if you agree with me? shrug I was pointing what what is obvious to some and not to others (health insurance, not auto). My point being, it's too bad our health is dependent on a for profit system that will deny you certain treatments and/or drugs because they are too expensive.

good2speed

20-06-2007 12:06:13

[quote81815053d6="hehehhehe"]
What's with the tone if you agree with me? shrug I was pointing what what is obvious to some and not to others (health insurance, not auto). My point being, it's too bad our health is dependent on a for profit system that will deny you certain treatments and/or drugs because they are too expensive.[/quote81815053d6]

Sorry for the tone. My point was just the obvious need not be stated. I think we are all aware that they exist to make money. I think the stronger argument which you reenforced is that insurance companies do not provide the appropriate coverage to its customers. What this film best addresses is not that insurance companies are out to make a profit but that the customers are routinely denied health coverage. Health care employees also unethically pursue and look for any legal loophole that would allow a denial.

The issue of insurance providers being greedy and denying coverage is nothing new to me. Some may have been unaware of the situation and in that regard he may have shed light on the issue to some.

Overall though I thought he lost focused in the film and didn't present his argument as strong as it could've been.

michae229

20-06-2007 13:15:37

[quote7564371dbf="dmorris68"][quote7564371dbf="michae229"][quote7564371dbf="JUNIOR6886"]i'll check it out despite moore's douche baggery[/quote7564371dbf]

its a good movie and if it does change the health industry he will be a transcending person that changes America like a John Steinbeck or somthing and no one can really deny that.

yea people says he lie but what is there to lie about?

one more thing yea he probly wants fame but i mean come one why do people run for office lol.[/quote7564371dbf]
Ouch, the naivete is astounding. lol

It won't "change" the health industry. It might bring it to the forefront of conversation again, which is a good thing, but only until the next big social crisis hits at which time it will be set aside like before. Until we have a government willing to do something about it, and the will of the people behind it, it won't change. Certainly not from someone like Moore, who has no credibility outside of entertainment circles.

What is there to lie about? The man will lie about any and everything that makes him appear important and relevant.

As far as fame, I'd say not all politicians start out wanting fame. In fact, few if any do. Many have a genuine desire to help or make a difference, and I say that about those that I disagree with as well. Others want the power, which is quite different than fame. But the ultimate problem is that politics is a self-corrupting enterprise, and by the time you get to the highest levels it's virtually impossible to have clean hands, otherwise you would have been trampled long before. So, as cliche as it sounds, it becomes a "lesser of evils" scenario where you have to pick out the scumbag that a little less scummier than the rest and who also supports most of your positions on the issues.[/quote7564371dbf]

yea you have a good point

hehehhehe

20-06-2007 13:30:48

[quotee80a333024="good2speed"]Sorry for the tone. My point was just the obvious need not be stated. I think we are all aware that they exist to make money. I think the stronger argument which you reenforced is that insurance companies do not provide the appropriate coverage to its customers. What this film best addresses is not that insurance companies are out to make a profit but that the customers are routinely denied health coverage. Health care employees also unethically pursue and look for any legal loophole that would allow a denial.

The issue of insurance providers being greedy and denying coverage is nothing new to me. Some may have been unaware of the situation and in that regard he may have shed light on the issue to some.

Overall though I thought he lost focused in the film and didn't present his argument as strong as it could've been.[/quotee80a333024]
No biggie wink, I just think it did need to be said. Having to make money is obvious but the part where they don't take such great care of you is not so obvious to everyone. If it were, I would hope that we would've done something about it.

I needed some painkillers, and my insurance company wouldn't ok it because it was expensive even though I had 'ramped up' like they wanted and it was something known to work for me in the past. I paid for it and got it from Canada for a little more than I would've had to pay here WITH insurance.

legit4biz

25-06-2007 20:17:12

Michael Moore is the male version of Rosie O'Donnell.
I think they were twins split at birth.

Both are disgusting people who find the most offensive and foul way to get their point across. By the time you get past the physical grossness, there's the verbal grossness. At that point, who cares what they're saying and whether its the truth or not. You just don't want to look at them or hear anything else from them at all.

JUNIOR6886 - douche baggery... rofl one of the funniest terms I've heard in a while.

theysayjump

25-06-2007 20:47:55

[quote8b249be3c2="legit4biz"]Michael Moore is the male version of Rosie O'Donnell.
I think they were twins split at birth.

Both are disgusting people who find the most offensive and foul way to get their point across. By the time you get past the physical grossness, there's the verbal grossness. At that point, who cares what they're saying and whether its the truth or not. You just don't want to look at them or hear anything else from them at all.

JUNIOR6886 - douche baggery... rofl one of the funniest terms I've heard in a while.[/quote8b249be3c2]

Wow, you have high standards for people in politics or with a political opinion as you seem to only be willing to listen to what eye candy have to say.

MM doesn't make movies or documentaries to turn you on, so why his personal appearance makes a difference to his message is beyond me. roll

legit4biz

26-06-2007 09:43:34

Ooooohhh, c'mon. Seriously roll

Why choose to ignore everything else and harp on my liliOBVIOUSlili attempt to be funny? Why would you harp on only one part of what I said anyway? Did you find any validity in any other comments I made? Didn't I also talk about HOW THEY CHOOSE TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS??? Also, where did I mention anything about eye candy and only listening to what eye candy says? To be honest, I didn't credit or discredit what either one of them says, all I said is that their physical/verbal affront is a 1 - 2 punch that's hard to withstand. ?

I don't know about you, but I don't consider either Michael Moore OR Rosie O'Donnell to be politicians. (???) Everyone has an opinion about politics, but I believe it takes much more than voicing an opinion to qualify oneself or anyone else as a "politician". I hardly think that my comments about , speaks to how I qualify political agendas, politicians, or anything else except for how revolting I find those two people to present and represent themselves. No more, no less. The confusion comes in when you try to add to OR take from what I said and paint a therefore inaccurate picture. shock shock

If you're gonna come, come correct.

theysayjump

26-06-2007 11:17:03

[quote59a4dce5b0="legit4biz"]Ooooohhh, c'mon. Seriously roll

Why choose to ignore everything else and harp on my liliOBVIOUSlili attempt to be funny? Why would you harp on only one part of what I said anyway? Did you find any validity in any other comments I made? Didn't I also talk about HOW THEY CHOOSE TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS??? Also, where did I mention anything about eye candy and only listening to what eye candy says? To be honest, I didn't credit or discredit what either one of them says, all I said is that their physical/verbal affront is a 1 - 2 punch that's hard to withstand. ?

I don't know about you, but I don't consider either Michael Moore OR Rosie O'Donnell to be politicians. (???) Everyone has an opinion about politics, but I believe it takes much more than voicing an opinion to qualify oneself or anyone else as a "politician". I hardly think that my comments about , speaks to how I qualify political agendas, politicians, or anything else except for how revolting I find those two people to present and represent themselves. No more, no less. The confusion comes in when you try to add to OR take from what I said and paint a therefore inaccurate picture. shock shock

[b59a4dce5b0]If you're gonna come, come correct.[/color59a4dce5b0][/b59a4dce5b0][/quote59a4dce5b0]

You might want to try that yourself.

You "quote me" as calling them politicians and then base much of your post on it, when I actually said "people in politics or with a political opinion".

Your post was nowhere close to even being funny, or even facetious for that matter, which is why it was taken as serious.

I'm just going to quote this part as it speaks for itself

[quote59a4dce5b0]Why choose to ignore everything else and harp on my liliOBVIOUSlili attempt to be funny? Why would you harp on only one part of what I said anyway?[/quote59a4dce5b0]

[quote59a4dce5b0]Michael Moore is the male version of Rosie O'Donnell.....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

[quote59a4dce5b0]....I think they were twins split at birth....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

[quote59a4dce5b0]....Both are disgusting people.....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

[quote59a4dce5b0]....By the time you get past the physical grossness.....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

[quote59a4dce5b0]....You just don't want to look at them.....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

So really, besides talking about their physical appearance you made one point

[quote59a4dce5b0]....who find the most offensive and foul way to get their point across.....[/quote59a4dce5b0]

If you're going to come, come correct.

igogreen

26-06-2007 15:42:51

They should put that clown down in Gitmo with the rest of the scum!

CollidgeGraduit

26-06-2007 15:45:51

[quote5a54f948f2="igogreen"]They should put that clown down in Gitmo with the rest of the scum![/quote5a54f948f2]

Remove the referral link from your signature, since it's against the rules that you agreed to when you signed up.

ragefu

28-06-2007 12:23:38

Remind me why Michael Moore hasn't been deported yet? If he really wants to change anything he should run for office (I wouldn't elect his dumb ass for town council though) instead of making docs on how America sucks ass at everything

tracemhunter

28-06-2007 12:39:42

anybody can talk about problems but unless you have a solution, keep your mouth shut because you are just rambling. i haven't seen this movie yet (downloading it now), but if all he is going to do is whine and moan, i don't want to hear it.

ilanbg

28-06-2007 13:38:41

Moore spreads propaganda, which is fine for gathering support for a cause from the less educated, but he's not a good source of information for those that are, like, interested in actually learning about said information.

Read Running On Empty[=http//www.amazon.com/Running-Empty-Democratic-Republican-Bankrupting/dp/0374252874]Running On Empty for the real deal on Medicare and Social Security. Suggest Moore to your more easily manipulated friends who wouldn't understand the concepts in that book.

TravMan162

31-03-2008 13:30:56

[quote87597f6521="ragefu"]Remind me why Michael Moore hasn't been deported yet? If he really wants to change anything he should run for office (I wouldn't elect his dumb ass for town council though) instead of making docs on how America sucks ass at everything[/quote87597f6521]

Why should he be deported?

Because he challenges you to think about things that you don't normally consider? Because he tries to open your eyes to the reality that some things aren't exactly as they seem? Because there are two sides to every story despite what the media tells you?

We need people like this. Granted, his shit is biased, he is a filmmaker and some things may be exaggerated, his points are ones that should be considered. Especially this health care one. It is a sad state of affairs when the people that truly need the most help are the ones that are turned away.

I have to watch my roommate, who is dying of stomach cancer, (who now, by doctor's opinions, has two months to live) dig herself a hole with medical bills that she can't pay while trying to balance her mortgage, and all her other bills, when she should be taking care of herself in a low stress state. Instead she's working two jobs, stressing herself out and making her condition worse.

It's fucking backwards. She should be the one with the free care. It's what you pay goddamn insurance for. So before you say people should be deported for questioning things as they are given to us, maybe you should take a second to think about this stuff yourself.

michae229

31-03-2008 17:19:58

[quoteefd5aa1224="TravMan162"][quoteefd5aa1224="ragefu"]Remind me why Michael Moore hasn't been deported yet? If he really wants to change anything he should run for office (I wouldn't elect his dumb ass for town council though) instead of making docs on how America sucks ass at everything[/quoteefd5aa1224]

Why should he be deported?

Because he challenges you to think about things that you don't normally consider? Because he tries to open your eyes to the reality that some things aren't exactly as they seem? Because there are two sides to every story despite what the media tells you?

We need people like this. Granted, his shit is biased, he is a filmmaker and some things may be exaggerated, his points are ones that should be considered. Especially this health care one. It is a sad state of affairs when the people that truly need the most help are the ones that are turned away.

I have to watch my roommate, who is dying of stomach cancer, (who now, by doctor's opinions, has two months to live) dig herself a hole with medical bills that she can't pay while trying to balance her mortgage, and all her other bills, when she should be taking care of herself in a low stress state. Instead she's working two jobs, stressing herself out and making her condition worse.

It's fucking backwards. She should be the one with the free care. It's what you pay goddamn insurance for. So before you say people should be deported for questioning things as they are given to us, maybe you should take a second to think about this stuff yourself.[/quoteefd5aa1224]


lol you are right bro i cant stand when people say he is Unamerican because you question American ethics make you more American in my opinion.