Marijuana-Harmless Pastime or destructive killer?

I just got done reading about the history of cannibis and read how it was used culturally in asia and in india for centuries and it wasn't until recently that it was outlawed. A great number of other countries are relaxing their drug laws that they only implemented to become a part of the UN in the first place. Marijuana has had a history of false propaganda and political motive behind its illigality. Medically it has many uses without the adverse side effects of other treatments and as a fiber hemp has numberable uses, even as a alternative to plywood.

My reading has gotten me into an introspective mood and i was wondering what the general opion of marijuana is. Should it be legalized? Decriminilized? Is it moral? Is it viable? does it have a place in our society? What is everyones opion on it in general?

Decriminalized.

Not sold by stores though, taxes will kill the whole thing.

If it was decriminalized it would have to be sold in stores. How else would the government regulate? How else would it be sold? The whole purpose of decriminilization it to get it from the streets so if you want to smoke you don't have to go to a criminal drug dealer who sells death via crack and herion. I mean if you can think of a better way for it to be sold without taxes thats cool, but trade in cannibis is a billion dollar industry. The gov is gonna want a peice of that pie!

I believe it is decriminalized in a few states, like 5 or 6. In Massachusetts it is atleast, you can be in possession of up to an ounce. Decriminalized doesn't mean its legal, it just means its not a criminal offense to be in possession of it.

EDIT Oh ya, and its neither a destructive killer or harmless pastime, it is whatever you make it to be, much like alcohol. Use it responsibly and I have no issues with it.

should be legal, not just decriminalized.

anyone that drinks alcohol or smokes tobacco and is against the legalization of marijuana is just plain ignorant.

It should be sold and taxed as is booze and tobacco, but people should also feel free to grow it themselves if they are so opposed to the tax.

It poses much less of a risk than alcohol does in just about every study on it ever conducted.

It's nuts. We're a nation of pill poppers and we can't legalize a soft drug like pot? People take pills for everything from anxiety to sleep to concentration...drugs that are actually proven harmful to the mind and body.

It infuriates me that doctors can prescribe SPEED to the slow-witted and benzos to those who worry too much...both drugs which completely change reality and brain chemistry...but they can't prescribe herb to cancer patients in the majority of the states.

completely ridiculous

AND, the only major negative effect of marijuana is on the lungs when it is smoked and if it is eaten as was the traditional method of consumption it obviously doen't harm the lungs. vaporizers also rule out the negative effects of smoking...but smoking will always remain because it is soo fun.

This is a heated topic in general.

I think it should stay where it is, illegal. Ask me that question 6 years ago when I was a pot head and I would say LEGALIZE IT!! But I stopped using it years ago. It's a waste of money and makes you giggle..but at the same time makes you relaxed. It's just one of those drugs that aren't good. It makes people lazy...I'm not saying everyone or that other legal drugs don't. It's expensive...big waste of money...and once again I'm not saying other legal drugs aren't expensive and a waste of money. But there are rules in play for legal drugs...you can't use them in a work place...I couldn't imagine doing my job drunk....let allow high. Pot leads to violence aka problem drug dealers.

Now I don't want people jumping down my throat for these comments, I do realize there are more harmful drugs that are legal out there. But making pot legal would just add to the problems.

And to further comment, drugs are fun when your young, once you grow up you'll look back and wonder what you were thinking. Now I know there are adults here who smoke and I'm not saying anything bad but I know I would not be where I am now if i was still smoking pot.

Edit Haven't you all seen the commercial that one joint = 5 cigarettes?

I agree with manofice, I know a lot of people say it's harmless, but I have a lot of pothead friends who couldn't add 2+2 if their life depended on it, and they've only been smoking for a year to a year and a half. It should stay how it is right now, other medicines can help cancer patients, as a society, we should progress to better things and aspire for greatness, and pot takes away all those goals and forms lazy dumb balls of fat.

You say that pot takes away aspirations, but isn't it really the user and their personality that determine that. Everyone uses drugs for a reason. What reason is their to smoke cigerates, And alcohol, while benificial in moderate doses i.e. one drink, is hardly used in such a fashion. I'm not saying that everyone should smoke marijuana, and of course it shouldn't be used while working or driving, but everyone should be allowed the choice whether to indulge or not.

[quoteeb1c600a31="mgcccstudent88"]You say that pot takes away aspirations, but isn't it really the user and their personality that determine that. Everyone uses drugs for a reason. What reason is their to smoke cigerates, And alcohol, while benificial in moderate doses i.e. one drink, is hardly used in such a fashion. I'm not saying that everyone should smoke marijuana, and of course it shouldn't be used while working or driving, but everyone should be allowed the choice whether to indulge or not.[/quoteeb1c600a31]

Everyone does have a choice to use it or not. But if you choose to use it, you will suffer consequences if you're caught. I don't think it's the user it's the drug that can take away "aspirations". You can take a jolly young kid and let me smoke for a year and he will turn into a dull kid, not saying this is always true...but I've seen it.

soon2bbriz, LOL..you just made me laugh, I know what movie you're talking about! But I can't think of it!!!

I've seen it as well, but as far as young kids smoking i think that is a bad idea. That is a pivital time in a persons life where their brain is growing and developing and nueral pathways are being forged and a mind altering chemical inhibiting that process is not a good idea.

Marijuana is a pleasurable substance that makes people happy. If a person constantly uses marijuana to become happy and neglects other aspects of their life that used to make them happy, but no longer do because they only want marijuana to make them happy then they are addicted. Yah not physically but even worse phycolicg.....in the mind.

What i'm saying is that if people can enjoy and derive happiness from lets say alcohol and not become addicted why can not they derive happiness from marijuana. The way i see it is that it should be a small portion of a persons activities, likes, and hobbies. not the only one.

If people are not responsible enough to use in moderation, then they should not partake. and if anyone should find themselves ignoring other parts of their life then they need to take a look inside and decide what the cause is and then remove that cause, thats all.

I

[quote6b838b78f7="soon2bbriz"][quote6b838b78f7="Tsmith10803"]I agree with manofice, I know a lot of people say it's harmless, but I have a lot of pothead friends who couldn't add 2+2 if their life depended on it, and they've only been smoking for a year to a year and a half. It should stay how it is right now, other medicines can help cancer patients, as a society, we should progress to better things and aspire for greatness, and pot takes away all those goals and forms lazy dumb balls of fat.[/quote6b838b78f7]

I read this and just had to respond again. I do not feel that I am a "lazy dumb ball of fat". I gradutated in the top 3% of my college veterinary tecnicians class, i work 45-50 hours a week, i teach gymnastics 2 times a week, I work out 3 times a week, I maintain my house and garden, my fiance, my cats. (All things that i have started within the past 5 of my 11 years of smoking ). i really don't feel lazy at all. in fact, Some feel that they do their best work after sitting down and smoking a bowl. It seems to give some the motivation to go out and weed their garden or paint the living etc![/quote6b838b78f7]

Like I said...all comments here should not be considered towards everyone. Some people are like you and get "pumped" or motivated when high.

Oh yeah the movie is "half baked"

[quotec02c825082="soon2bbriz"]OMG!!!! That's it! Half Baked. Damn i cant believe i forgot the name! One of my fav movies too!!! "They killed Killa B!" +karma to you for figuring it out! I was driving mysself crazy!!![/quotec02c825082]

LOL, those are pretty funny

[quotecea04c0459="TriforceXHacks"]Decriminalized.

Not sold by stores though, taxes will kill the whole thing.[/quotecea04c0459]

I could'nt agree anymmore, i'm not a user myself but for the oldies that get taken down for doing somthing they enjoy, is wrong as they are'nt dealing etc.

[quoteb92834cbf6="XiORE"][quoteb92834cbf6="TriforceXHacks"]Decriminalized.

Not sold by stores though, taxes will kill the whole thing.[/quoteb92834cbf6]

I could'nt agree anymmore, i'm not a user myself but for the oldies that get taken down for doing somthing they enjoy, is wrong as they are'nt dealing etc.[/quoteb92834cbf6]

That's stupid. Why would the government legalize or decriminalize something that would still have to be sold in the streets? One of the major arguments for legalization is the tax money it could bring in.

[quote6c36aa4af1="Tsmith10803"]I agree with manofice, I know a lot of people say it's harmless, but I have a lot of pothead friends who couldn't add 2+2 if their life depended on it, and they've only been smoking for a year to a year and a half. It should stay how it is right now, other medicines can help cancer patients, as a society, we should progress to better things and aspire for greatness, and pot takes away all those goals and forms lazy dumb balls of fat.[/quote6c36aa4af1]

wow. other medicines can help cancer patients? Help as in dealing with the pain of treatment? So you find heavy narcotics less of a threat than weed? An opinion is one thing but that is madness.

ever know a cancer patient? medical pot should be a given, not even arguable IMO. When people are dying they should be able to mainline H if they really want to, damn.

lazy balls of fat, no goals? People are lazy/dumb regardless of drug intake.

I'm not a pothead or anything but I know plenty of older professionals and intellectuals whom I greatly admire that all habitually smoke weed. Sure, there are dumb stoners as well...but who's to say they wouldn't be dumb regardless of what they did?

the top 5% of my HS class and mostly everyone going on to prestigious schools are at least 50% potheads. My two best friends as well as I have smoked since about 14-15ish...they're stoners though...and all three of us scored over a 1500 on the SAT (on the 1600 scale). One of them took it blazed.

People shouldn't be protected from themselves, period. Alcohol is a far greater threat to society in every facet but no one can admit it because they all drink! Almost anything in moderation is okay.

Personally, I don't touch any sort of alcohol or tobacco product. If you're worried about societal good and evil, worry about booze. It's ramifications upon society are much much greater.

[quote82db9b7a82="Tsmith10803"][quote82db9b7a82="XiORE"][quote82db9b7a82="TriforceXHacks"]Decriminalized.

Not sold by stores though, taxes will kill the whole thing.[/quote82db9b7a82]

I could'nt agree anymmore, i'm not a user myself but for the oldies that get taken down for doing somthing they enjoy, is wrong as they are'nt dealing etc.[/quote82db9b7a82]

That's stupid. Why would the government legalize or decriminalize something that would still have to be sold in the streets? One of the major arguments for legalization is the tax money it could bring in.[/quote82db9b7a82]
I took a class in school that was given by a Nobel prize winner that dealt with crime in terms of economics. If you take the billions of dollars wasted on the "war on drugs" and put that towards prevention, education, and rehabilitation and then legalize and tax all drugs we'd make a crapload of money and also stop a lot of crime. No more drug cartels or drug related gang violence because no one would by street drugs if you can get them legally at a store and know they are "safe" (not laced or cut with poison). It makes sense...

[quotecdc8775926="mgcccstudent88"]I've seen it as well, but as far as young kids smoking i think that is a bad idea. That is a pivital time in a persons life where their brain is growing and developing and nueral pathways are being forged and a mind altering chemical inhibiting that process is not a good idea.
[/quotecdc8775926]

But just because it would be legalized doesn't mean that it can't have regulations. If you think it's ok then why can't you put it into the same terms as tobacco or alcohol.

I think that it should be legal. I've smoked pot before, I never really liked it too much (I like other drugs that are schedule I a little more, so I'd get Fliliked really bad for having them). But if it's offered to me at a party or by a friend I have no problem partaking in smoking some weed.

I dont' understand why it is illegal in the first place. (Actually I've heard it has something to do with lobbiest). But marajuanna is not as harmful as either smoking or drinking. Smoking is horrible for your lungs, but weed can be vaporized or eaten and have a lot less impact on your lungs. Alcohol is horrible on your liver. And as far as intoxication goes weed is nowhere near as bad as alcohol (unless you eat some $80 a piece brownies).

It just doesn't make sence to me.

theres nothing better than chilling back with your friends with a nice bizzle 8)

[quote5754bebf33="nytrate"]should be legal, not just decriminalized.

[/quote5754bebf33]

i agree with your sentiments but I believe legalization is a very slippery slope. I spent the summer working in Vancouver and have been to Amsterdam a few times so I'm pretty aware of what happens in more tolerant societies. One of the major problems effecting these areas are the copious amounts of harder narcotics found there. Once a city goes legal the masses surrounding the city assume the place is a drug haven.

I saw some disturbing shit in Vancouver. Like homeless people shooting up on one of the busiest streets in Vancouver during broad daylight ( 900 AM to be exact). The amount of begging and homelessness is incredible and must be dealt with at all times. I couldnt even count the number of crackheads in the entire city. I remember walking down one street late at night and everyone looked like they were from the thriller video.

It could be unique to Vancouver if I hadn't seent similar happenings in AMsterdam. Tolerant societies often bite more they can chew when regulating what type of drug use is acceptable.

Americans wouldnt be able to handle an etirely tolerant marijuana society and for that reason decriminiliaztion should be sought since taken by itself the drug is quite harmless.

[quote744567204f="Wolfeman"][quote744567204f="Tsmith10803"][quote744567204f="XiORE"][quote744567204f="TriforceXHacks"]Decriminalized.

Not sold by stores though, taxes will kill the whole thing.[/quote744567204f]

I could'nt agree anymmore, i'm not a user myself but for the oldies that get taken down for doing somthing they enjoy, is wrong as they are'nt dealing etc.[/quote744567204f]

That's stupid. Why would the government legalize or decriminalize something that would still have to be sold in the streets? One of the major arguments for legalization is the tax money it could bring in.[/quote744567204f]
I took a class in school that was given by a Nobel prize winner that dealt with crime in terms of economics. If you take the billions of dollars wasted on the "war on drugs" and put that towards prevention, education, and rehabilitation and then legalize and tax all drugs we'd make a crapload of money and also stop a lot of crime. No more drug cartels or drug related gang violence because no one would by street drugs if you can get them legally at a store and know they are "safe" (not laced or cut with poison). It makes sense...[/quote744567204f]

So wait, are you agreeing with my quoted statement or not? )

[quoteeb54f88123="Wolfeman"]
I took a class in school that was given by a Nobel prize winner that dealt with crime in terms of economics. If you take the billions of dollars wasted on the "war on drugs" and put that towards prevention, education, and rehabilitation and then [beb54f88123]legalize and tax all drugs[/beb54f88123] we'd make a crapload of money and also stop a lot of crime. No more drug cartels or drug related gang violence because no one would by street drugs if you can get them legally at a store and know they are "safe" (not laced or cut with poison). [beb54f88123]It makes sense..[/beb54f88123].[/quoteeb54f88123]

till your people start looking like this and you can't go out late at night

http//www.djjamescalamera.com/images/thriller-misc_005.jpg[" alt=""/imgeb54f88123]

I've been to both Vancouver and Amsterdam. I don't think pot use has anything to do with hard drug use.

Vancouver is just very lax on policing drug use...so yea you'll see the occasional shoot-up or crack smoking on the street. Doesn't mean it's any worse than any other big city, but that it's just out in the open more.

I think Holland actually has fairly decent drug-use statistics.

Hell, in Sydney Australia all the bathrooms in the "fun" areas of town have red/black lights so people can't shoot up.

[quote5e68714d06="nytrate"]I've been to both Vancouver and Amsterdam. I don't think pot use has anything to do with hard drug use.

Vancouver is just very lax on policing drug use...so yea you'll see the occasional shoot-up or crack smoking on the street. Doesn't mean it's any worse than any other big city, but that it's just out in the open more.

I think Holland actually has fairly decent drug-use statistics.

Hell, in Sydney Australia all the bathrooms in the "fun" areas of town have red/black lights so people can't shoot up.[/quote5e68714d06]

then what would be in your estimation a reason for why there are so many homeless people in this region. By any chance did you meet any 16-22 year old homless kid who has already given up on life and sits on the same corner all day asking for change. Aksing around you start to undertsand this person isnt a local Canuck and has come from the small town and is engulfed by the city.

I dont know where you live ( oh Philly and you wnat legalized weed?) but Im from Ny and Id bet my life there would be supreme anarchy in Ny if weed was legalized.

Hey if you legalize weed I guess cocaine and exstasy are the mild drugs.

People keep saying things about pot taking over what they do, or becoming lazy or whatever...but alcohol and other drugs have the same affect. People let alcohol and prescription pills take over their lives on a daily basis, and those are legal. There are always going to people that abuse the privilege whether it is legal or not, and while being legal it might get rid of some of the problems like wolfeman said... there are still going to be those jack-asses that abuse it, just like the drunks that kill people from driving drunk.
I know several people that study better for tests after smoking, they stay focused. I know people (like myself) that can't do anything but sleep after they smoke. There are both extremes, the same way there are extremes from alcohol and cigarettes.
I know people that have gone to jail/died from drug deals gone wrong over stupid weed, so being legalized would rid those situations if it was available in stores...but at the same time, people that didn't have access to it before or didn't want access to it would buy some just to see- since they know they can, which could lead to new problems.

Making it legal would just make the world more of a drug addict. Usage would go up 100%

[quote2fd5acc8d6="O4F-Manofice"]Making it legal would just make the world more of a drug addict. Usage would go up 100%[/quote2fd5acc8d6]
Actually putting money into education and treatment is more effective than the war on drugs. Drugs are more potent and more available than ever in history. We will never stop it all but this current way just doesn't work...

[quoteb4b4987bf1="Wolfeman"][quoteb4b4987bf1="O4F-Manofice"]Making it legal would just make the world more of a drug addict. Usage would go up 100%[/quoteb4b4987bf1]
Actually putting money into education and treatment is more effective than the war on drugs. Drugs are more potent and more available than ever in history. We will never stop it all but this current way just doesn't work...[/quoteb4b4987bf1]

Wolfeman, is you pic rolling in shit...is that what you speak of? Shit?

I agree we should spend more on education and treatment ..but is the answer legalizing it and making it more available?

i think I agree with good2speed about the slippery slope. Once you legalize it, you upon up Pandora's box essentially. I'm sure drug use among our youth(13-18 ) would skyrocket. Which means their performance in school(on an average at the least) would probably go down considerably.

Also no matter what people say about pot being a gateway drug I can attest to the following.

I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to smoke cigarettes
I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to drink alcohol.
I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to do any harder drugs
I have never met anyone that used a drug harder that didn't smoke pot though.

I'm all for decriminalization though.

I think its highly immoral and wrong.... Since true conservatisim is all but dead im sure most will see this as me being a wet blanket or something roll Although i think its wrong i can tolorate other people doing it as long as they dont do it near me D

If their are regulations on selling weed (just like there is on cigarettes and alcohol) the younger kids would still have to find people old enough to buy it for them. So I don't understand how their use would skyrocket, if they want the drug now they are still going to get it. alteast if it were regulated it would be a little harder for them to get...I mean a 13 yr old kid can't walk into a store and buy the weed.

there are alot of stores that will sell weed just not openly.

recently in my area a candy store was selling weed out of the back.

more people choose drugs becuase they cant buy cigs or alcohol cuz no dealer is carding anyone.

I think if it does ever get legalized there should be restrictions like, how much you can buy at a time, how much you can carry on you, not being able to smoke it unless in the privacy of your own home...things like that so people taht don't want to be around it don't have to be.

[quotefc05d60138]If their are regulations on selling weed (just like there is on cigarettes and alcohol) the younger kids would still have to find people old enough to buy it for them. So I don't understand how their use would skyrocket, if they want the drug now they are still going to get it. alteast if it were regulated it would be a little harder for them to get...I mean a 13 yr old kid can't walk into a store and buy the weed.[/quotefc05d60138]

Once it is legalized I bet they would be twice as likely to try it if offered. If it is legalized it will be 10 times easier to get it for anyone too.

Look at cigarettes.



Sixty percent of smokers started by age 14, and 90 percent become addicted before reaching the age of 19, according to Notobacco.org, a non-profit anti-smoking organization founded in 1989 by Patrick Reynolds, grandson of the founder of R.J Reynolds Tobacco Company.

Pot would be no harder for a kid to get than tobacco or alcohol if it was legal

[quotef361f70dc1="justinag06"][quotef361f70dc1]If their are regulations on selling weed (just like there is on cigarettes and alcohol) the younger kids would still have to find people old enough to buy it for them. So I don't understand how their use would skyrocket, if they want the drug now they are still going to get it. alteast if it were regulated it would be a little harder for them to get...I mean a 13 yr old kid can't walk into a store and buy the weed.[/quotef361f70dc1]

Once it is legalized I bet they would be twice as likely to try it if offered. If it is legalized it will be 10 times easier to get it for anyone too.

Look at cigarettes.



Sixty percent of smokers started by age 14, and 90 percent become addicted before reaching the age of 19, according to Notobacco.org, a non-profit anti-smoking organization founded in 1989 by Patrick Reynolds, grandson of the founder of R.J Reynolds Tobacco Company.

Pot would be no harder for a kid to get than tobacco or alcohol if it was legal[/quotef361f70dc1]

Agreed. It was so easy for me to just ask someone in a grade ahead of me to buy me smokes or beer when I wasn't old enough...Pot would be no different.

All I can think of is the song from AfroMan...

If we legalize marijuana, I would have to agree that the government could make more money off of it, just like tobacco tax and whatever else. They could then focus on more "heavier" drug problems. Hell, like I tell people all the time, more people smoke than drink alcohol.

Most states have a clause or subsection that ties DUI alcohol with drug use as well. If you're high from weed, there are ways to determine how high and how impaired you are.

Legalizing would help you always get the good stuff too. No cheap ass dude growing it in his closet, you could get BC bud, high quality marijuana.

Personally, never smoked, never have, never will, but that's just my two cents.

jenncherry-I agree that there should be an age restriction, but as you have recently come of drinking age, I am sure you remember finding a "hook up" for alcohol that would go in and buy it for you, or you may currently be that "hook up" for a minor. Finding someone to buy alcohol for me is not hard, it's just inconvenient, and I am sure the same will happen with weed.

I had a fake ID yes, but its harder for a 13 yr old to convince someone to buy them alcohol then it is for a 19 yr old. Atleast I would think so, but maybe I'm wrong.

THose are all valid points. BUT if marijuana was legalized and was sold in stores then the person who bought the marijuana for the minor would be the one commiting the crime and would be punished, NOT the adult who wants to exercise their constitutional right to choose whether or not to smoke weed.

Also, the kids that want to smoke weed are going to have to go to a drug dealer to get some harmless pot, therefore introducing them to harder drugs. Would you rather have kids going to drug dealers who would just as soon kill than go to jail, or have them wait until they become of age and the only way they can get it is a citizen with much to lose if they get caught breaking the law.

[quote654310d076="mgcccstudent88"]

Also, the kids that want to smoke weed are going to have to go to a drug dealer to get some harmless pot, therefore introducing them to harder drugs. Would you rather have kids going to drug dealers who would just as soon kill than go to jail, or have them wait until they become of age and the only way they can get it is a citizen with much to lose if they get caught breaking the law.[/quote654310d076]

OK gotta jump in here again, let me see if I can explain myself better.

First of all on the subject of "drug dealers". I think the average person you buy pot from is gravely mis characterized, and most people don't realize that it is just your friend from psych class that is the guy you are buying bud from. This thuggish character you speak of that is willing to kill people seems to go against everything you have said about the misconception of marijuana and it's users. Maybe the guy above the guy that is above the guy that sells you pot is that character.

I think you are underestimating the rebelliousness of teenagers too. Are you assuming that the underage Marijuana users would sit back and say "hmmm it is legal now, well I'll stop buying it from that drug dealer and just wait another 5 years until CVS will sell it to me." I see the oposite, I see kids that view it as an equal to alcohol and cigarettes and more that use it at a younger age regularly. That to me seems problematic for our society in general.

There will always be a drug dealer to sell pot to an underage kid, as long as that market is there someone will be there to fill the role. Just like the beer baron at your high school that would buy you booze and charge you $10 extra for it.

Also I am not convinced that the harder drug use would subside or decrease. The people that use them now will continue to use them. Also with more people exposed to drugs in general, there could be more users that latch onto the drug.

[quote654310d076]BUT if marijuana was legalized and was sold in stores then the person who bought the marijuana for the minor would be the one commiting the crime and would be punished, NOT the adult who wants to exercise their constitutional right to choose whether or not to smoke weed. [/quote654310d076]

Is anyone arguing that? That is no different than the policy on tobacco and alcohol currently and it isn't stopping minors from obtaining it.

[quote69d909a6fd="JUNIOR6886"]I think its highly immoral and wrong.... Since true conservatisim is all but dead im sure most will see this as me being a wet blanket or something roll Although i think its wrong i can tolorate other people doing it as long as they dont do it near me D[/quote69d909a6fd]

Why do you think it is wrong and immoral? Please dont' say because it is illegal or because you were brought up that way.

[quotef249e77889="justinag06"]i think I agree with good2speed about the slippery slope. Once you legalize it, you upon up Pandora's box essentially. I'm sure drug use among our youth(13-18 ) would skyrocket. Which means their performance in school(on an average at the least) would probably go down considerably.

Also no matter what people say about pot being a gateway drug I can attest to the following.

I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to smoke cigarettes
I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to drink alcohol.
I have seen many marijuana users who refuse to do any harder drugs
I have never met anyone that used a drug harder that didn't smoke pot though.

I'm all for decriminalization though.[/quotef249e77889]

thx for the backup with the slippery slope. I myself was beginning to doubt whether or not I was even making sense anymore.

[quotef249e77889="Jenncherry99"]I think if it does ever get legalized there should be restrictions like, how much you can buy at a time, how much you can carry on you, not being able to smoke it unless in the privacy of your own home...things like that so people taht don't want to be around it don't have to be.[/quotef249e77889]

They dont restrict the amount of alcohol you can purchase. Plus that would be un American(capitalistic) since what if someone wanted to purchase 5 kilos for a bachelor party or a wedding.

As far as where and when it should be used. If legalized we should follow Amsterdam and have it smoked inside a coffe shop or in their own homes. Would have to comply with traditional state rules that govern smoking in buildings and public/govt facilities. No real need to reinvent the wheel most of the system is already setup.

Strabucks would prolly profit the most if legalized. Thier stock would go threw the roof and the'yd exploit 3rd world countries distinct strains of cannabis. This and the slippery slope are main reasons we should never legalize.

Decriminalize is the best option. Cops under this protection would only be allowed to issue summonses to appear in court and could not detain you for any period of time. Fines would increase in relation to number of incidents pending. This scenario is highly unlikely especially in New York City since cops and governemnt/mayors like the fact that police can detain you for reasons such as open container, marijuana possession(even a stem), and jaywalking. The govt likes these stops and checks so they can trace your background and try to find any warrants for your arrest.

A toker who only wants decriminilation. Who would've figured.

I just think that more people would be doing it if it were legalized. I think that if we did legalize it, we could make a lot of money off of it, however, I find it immoral to legalize it because of the morons it's made of my once friends

I think if it were to get legalized that I would go invest in taco bell.

I've stated my opinion on marijuana numerous times in past posts...

In short, I believe it should be removed as a Schedule I class drug, and taxed for distribution to private facilities (think 'medical marijuana dispensaries').. Medical marijuana patients would also be able to purchase their medicine tax-exempt. Also, you should be allowed to grow a fixed number of plants set by state law (I think 6 plants is a fair number). Then double (or in some circumstances triple) the penalty for distributing to a minor and if a minor is found in possession, then he should be court ordered to attend an anti-drug class. Finally, I would put the taxes towards anti-drug classes for the schools and anti-drug PSAs.

[quote96539a8659]Pot leads to violence aka problem drug dealers[/quote96539a8659]

Pot doesn't lead to violence... Not once in my life have I been put in a violent situation with a 'dealer'.. But let's say you're right about pot leading to violence from drug dealers.. If you would grow your own or buy from an authorized facility. That's more the reason to decriminalize and regulate it.

[quote96539a8659]Edit Haven't you all seen the commercial that one joint = 5 cigarettes?[/quote96539a8659]

... and the average tobacco smoker smokes at least one pack a day, sometimes two (20-40 cigarettes). How many people do you know that smoke 4 joints a day? The average is usually 1 or 2. I only smoke 2-3 joints a week (which means I smoke the equivalent of 15 cigarettes. 3/4 of one pack in 7 days). Again, It's virtually harmless if it's vaporized (a method that medical patients use) or cooked in food.

Woah! I didn't even realize until just not that marijuana was Schedule 1. I thought that it was a schedule 3 because it had medical uses.

[quote489bb52c90="Jenncherry99"][quote489bb52c90="Wolfeman"][quote489bb52c90="O4F-Manofice"]Making it legal would just make the world more of a drug addict. Usage would go up 100%[/quote489bb52c90]
Actually putting money into education and treatment is more effective than the war on drugs. Drugs are more potent and more available than ever in history. We will never stop it all but this current way just doesn't work...[/quote489bb52c90]

Wolfeman, is you pic rolling in shit...is that what you speak of? Shit?[/quote489bb52c90]
I trust the Nobel prize winners over FiPG users. Maybe thats just me. And yes its poo but I'm thinking about going old school
http/" alt=""/img375.imageshack.us/img="375/9866/buster140x100le0.gif[" alt=""/img489bb52c90]

[quote3cb4b1fba6="good2speed"]
[quote3cb4b1fba6="Jenncherry99"]I think if it does ever get legalized there should be restrictions like, how much you can buy at a time, how much you can carry on you, not being able to smoke it unless in the privacy of your own home...things like that so people taht don't want to be around it don't have to be.[/quote3cb4b1fba6]

They dont restrict the amount of alcohol you can purchase. Plus that would be un American(capitalistic) since what if someone wanted to purchase 5 kilos for a bachelor party or a wedding.

As far as where and when it should be used. If legalized we should follow Amsterdam and have it smoked inside a coffe shop or in their own homes. Would have to comply with traditional state rules that govern smoking in buildings and public/govt facilities. No real need to reinvent the wheel most of the system is already setup.

Strabucks would prolly profit the most if legalized. Thier stock would go threw the roof and the'yd exploit 3rd world countries distinct strains of cannabis. This and the slippery slope are main reasons we should never legalize.

Decriminalize is the best option. Cops under this protection would only be allowed to issue summonses to appear in court and could not detain you for any period of time. Fines would increase in relation to number of incidents pending. This scenario is highly unlikely especially in New York City since cops and governemnt/mayors like the fact that police can detain you for reasons such as open container, marijuana possession(even a stem), and jaywalking. The govt likes these stops and checks so they can trace your background and try to find any warrants for your arrest.

A toker who only wants decriminilation. Who would've figured.[/quote3cb4b1fba6]

Good point on not restricting how much you can buy, I guess I just think of differently since I am not really a smoker...

http//www.leap.cc/ - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition

Tons of great info there.. It's basically an organization composed of law enforcement agents that are against drug prohibition. It shows how our government has constructed our views on drugs and the like via complete lies, misinformation, bias, fake "scientific studies" and so on and so forth. Also, how much money we've spent on the war on drugs, and how it has been a complete and utter failure in all aspects.

weed is great when you play madden, or socom online...or any video games period...

weed is not good when you get into freebies. lose money

weed is good for freebie money usage

weed should be legalized

weed helps people

weed heals people

George Bush loves weed

[quoteb916d4a349="chrome89k"]weed is great when you play madden, or socom online...or any video games period...

weed is not good when you get into freebies. lose money

weed is good for freebie money usage

weed should be legalized

weed helps people

weed heals people

George Bush loves weed[/quoteb916d4a349]

You my friend were just put on hold for those comments. Have a nice day!






lol lol lol lol J/K

???? lol... iwas about to say.... wut happened to the free country

lmao... +kma for scaring the shit outta me and my money

[quoteab53ab90ab="chrome89k"]???? lol... iwas about to say.... wut happened to the free country

lmao... +kma for scaring the shit outta me and my money[/quoteab53ab90ab]

hehe, I was totally kidding...i'm little board at work, heh

where u work?

I prefer not to name the company ;)

[quote6dabfead22="O4F-Manofice"]I prefer not to name the company ;)[/quote6dabfead22]
Come on, don't be a girl -P

haha o .. one of those chains... probably a popular store, well known around the US... company that may have some sort of controversy about something...

like in some books people who do studies would rather not post the names of the stores they work to avoid discrepancy

to all the california people all my friends who currently live there say they buy supremo shit like bubba kush and good bud out the back of medicinal plants how easy is it for you to obtain it from there.

also i believe that a vaporizer is one of the best investments when it comes to weed

Hey there nothing wrong weed, Have you ever seen anybody won't to start a fight on weed, beer Is a lot worst, that what I think.

[quote2efbd87b6b="Roger"]Hey there nothing wrong weed, Have you ever seen anybody won't to start a fight on weed, beer Is a lot worst, that what I think.[/quote2efbd87b6b]

No but one time my buddy had this idea that he would feed his dog his own poop.

The dog ate it too shock

[quotee6bc9fb0ad="Roger"]Hey there nothing wrong weed, Have you ever seen anybody won't to start a fight on weed, beer Is a lot worst, that what I think.[/quotee6bc9fb0ad]

Let me present to you the affects of weed.......




lol, just messing with you.

thank about It he had to be doing something else.

Think of me as you will But I have A space to Fill. You don't know how It Fill to be me.

[quote635d91bbc8="O4F-Manofice"][quote635d91bbc8="Roger"]Hey there nothing wrong weed, Have you ever seen anybody won't to start a fight on weed, beer Is a lot worst, that what I think.[/quote635d91bbc8]

Let me present to you the affects of weed.......




lol, just messing with you.[/quote635d91bbc8]

LMFAO... HAHA... i cant believe how extremely funny roger is... i was leaning back on my chair and when i read that i fell back onto my bed...

u alreday got ur +kma for the day... but if i could you'd get another...

Roger do you mean to talk like that, or do you type so incredibly fast?

Thanks, I am going to give you one to, Hey man weed Is all Right!

maybe it's just the weed

shrug

;)

Not Tonight, I am dry Here.

coulda fooled us all haha

Beer night here! I am having Fun THO.

smoke weed every day )

great first post i must say

I've been smoking Salvia for a week now... cheap, legal, and crazy strong and intense trips. I don't bother anybody with it, nobody gets hurt, and its not an epidemic. =)

if you smoke salvia too many times frequently i hear it kills the enjoyment of it.

most people say 2-3 times a month max.

i love 20x and 40x and sometimes 60x.

its good stuff its gonna be illegal soon (

[quote3ef327f229="Kidd"]
its good stuff its gonna be illegal soon ([/quote3ef327f229]


Not for a loooong time...

I have no respect for those who abuse plants/drugs. They all can be used for personal and spiritual growth when used in the right way. Unfortunately those people ruin it for everyone else. Lack of education might be an issue.

not for a long time?

many states are beggining to enact laws about salvia soon it will be a scheduled drug making it criminalized.

salvia isn't a recreational drug. There is no point in scheduling it.

Anyone that has fully experienced salvia to it's greatest extent knows this. It is the weirdest hallucinogen I've ever done.

It has a low potential for abuse because...well...it's not too much fun. It's not a party drug or a social drug. It's a very very strange introspective psychedelic that most people "don't get".

anyone who sits around and smokes salvia to "get high" are total idiots who are not getting the drug's full effects.

I've experimented with a wide array of hallucinogenic entheogens and alkaloids, both legal and not so...and salvia is definitely the weirdest. Not the most intense as it subsides quickly but weirder than dmt, ayauhuasa (which is a mix of several entheogens), ibogaine, natural mescaline, lsa, psilocin, psilocybin, lsd...salvia stands out from these as unique because it is just not recreational. plain and simple.

IMO, psychedelics should be legal as well as pot.

This of course does not include ecstasy, which is NOT a psychedelic contrary to popular believe, which should remain illegal. Ecstasy is a mouth-breathers drug and a "trip" for those who are too afraid to take a real hallucinogen. It's the dumb-man's LSD. It's the antithesis of what makes psychedelics so special.

Just a tid bit - I have never known anyone who takes X to hallucinate. Ever. I think they take it to dance, dance, dance all night and try and make love with anything that is the opposite sex.

And how can you say psychedelics should be legal? Oh here, lets take some LSD, think we can fly, and end up killing ourselves. Or worse, think our mom is the devil and kill her.

Actually that was in the movie SLC punk, he has 100 hits of acid in his pocket and while running from the police he runs through a football field with the sprinklers on. He thinks his mom is the devil so he sits out in the show on a garbage can lid because he thinks he is in the middle of the ocean. Hell, if we make LSD legal, why not coke, crack, and heroin?

if you can compare LSD to coke, crack and H you are out of your mind. Sounds like someone has never taken it and just takes everything from after-school specials and health classes as solid fact. Nothing wrong with that though.

Also, that scene in SLC Punk is a big urban legend. Everyone who has done it has heard that story in one way or another, the myth has been around since the 60's. Of course, it's entirely possible. The scene was deliberately putting the urban legend into play but probably assumed that most people watching would have heard the legend.

and I never said people took x to hallucinate. I said people call it a psychedelic. There is a fundamental difference in those 2 words. I don't mind a good argument or debate but at least read what I said carefully if you're going to pick it apart.

X is lame. I was just saying that it's the polar opposite of LSD.

No. I don't dabble in hard drugs, with a son on the way I think keeping my body and mind fresh is a good thing.

"It's the dumb-man's LSD."

Thats not calling it the polar opposite. That is calling it the dumb mans LSD.

The only drug I have done is marijuana. Mainly because
- pain killers are addicting, and I have friends who are dumber than rocks because of them.
- coke is expensive
- crack is for whores
- heroin is nasty
- as is meth, ice, smack
- LSD is something I do not think I would enjoy.

I always tried to eat mushrooms, but we never drove out to BFE to find them mainly because we were high and all we wanted to do was play Xbox360 and eat. Go figure.

PS. That commercial about smoking, and not doing anything is a joke. Going to the movies while ripped is the best, just make sure you have eye drops because if you don't you always think that everyone "knows"

I actually agree with your list. I won't and have never touched any pain killers, blow, h, meth (btw, smack = h, not meth). I'm far from a druggie. I've seen too many friends go down that road and never come back. I've been around all those things since I was 15 at least and I've never tried them or even had the curiosity to do so.

I just don't think it's fair to lump psychedelics in with all those nasty nasty chemicals under the name "Drugs". And btw, mushrooms have almost an identical effect on one's brain as LSD, it just doesn't last as long.

Personally, pot is the only intoxicant I allow into my body on a regular basis. I don't touch alcohol or cigarettes...so I allow myself one intoxicant to enjoy from time to time.

i get the most out of salvia with a gravity bong and a blow torch lighter.

oxycodone and hydrocodone can be fun but i take them rarely as they are real addicting.

i enjoy gettin "leaned" on sizzurp.

weed is great. i dont think ill ever do meth.

[quote2e35a74a5c="nytrate"]
I've experimented with a wide array of hallucinogenic entheogens and alkaloids, both legal and not so...and salvia is definitely the weirdest. Not the most intense as it subsides quickly but weirder than dmt, ayauhuasa (which is a mix of several entheogens), ibogaine, natural mescaline, lsa, psilocin, psilocybin, lsd...salvia stands out from these as unique because it is just not recreational. plain and simple.

IMO, [b2e35a74a5c]psychedelics should be legal as well as pot. [/b2e35a74a5c]

This of course does not include ecstasy, which is NOT a psychedelic contrary to popular believe, which should remain illegal. Ecstasy is a mouth-breathers drug and a "trip" for those who are too afraid to take a real hallucinogen. It's the dumb-man's LSD. It's the antithesis of [b2e35a74a5c]what makes psychedelics so special.[/b2e35a74a5c][/quote2e35a74a5c]

You're a freak. WTF did anyone see this post ending up here. Its great that you have detailed experience with LSD but you're wrong. You have no ideas of the profound effect that it will have on society at large if legalized. You yourself are young and quiet naieve. Your past drug use leads one to believe that you may be part of some demented counter culture that has completely dismissed anykind of scientific or reportive facts and instead decided to use your own experiences as a basis for your opinion. You champion yourself as an intellectual yet your opinion regarding LSD is deplorable and no one will see you as intelligent.

Oh ya its a kid site with 12-15 years old on here. Lets promote LSD ande make it sound really good for these young kids. Good job.

[quote2e35a74a5c="nytrate"]
I just don't think it's fair to lump psychedelics in with all those nasty nasty chemicals under the name "Drugs". And btw, mushrooms have almost an identical effect on one's brain as LSD, it just doesn't last as long.

Personally, pot is the only intoxicant I allow into my body on a regular basis. I don't touch alcohol or cigarettes...so I allow myself one intoxicant to enjoy from time to time.[/quote2e35a74a5c]

thx god your not doing the lSD as often but you eed to grow up and get away from the whole LSD is cool phase.

[quote2e35a74a5c="Kidd"]i get the most out of salvia with a gravity bong and a blow torch lighter.

oxycodone and hydrocodone can be fun but i take them rarely as they are real addicting.

i enjoy gettin "leaned" on sizzurp.

weed is great. i dont think ill ever do meth.[/quote2e35a74a5c]

what is wrong with you kids. Did you even have parents oir did they completely neglect you as a child?

Natural and un-adulterated psychadelic substances should be decriminalized. Salvia, Psylocibin (Mushrooms), and Peyote are all absolutely amazing. =)

[quote0cb16fe053="TriforceXHacks"]Natural and un-adulterated psychadelic substances should be decriminalized. Salvia, Psylocibin (Mushrooms), and Peyote are all absolutely amazing. =)[/quote0cb16fe053]

Ladies and gentleman I present to you the future Americans. Please feel free to slash your wrists at anytime before they get old enough to start making some important decisions.

[quote105e05447a="TriforceXHacks"]Natural and un-adulterated psychadelic substances should be decriminalized. Salvia, Psylocibin (Mushrooms), and Peyote are all absolutely amazing. =)[/quote105e05447a]

Why just natural? MDMA (Estacy) is made in a lab and that is by far my favorite drug that I've tried.

Like there are so many drugs that if taken properly in the right setting are great! Not just OMG i'm tripping this is soo awesome. But there are a lot of drugs taht really open your mind up to new things and make you think.

And I dont' want people saying they are so horrible because people die from taking them. If taken properly they arn't that bad for you. Alcohol is worse. People die from taking E because what they are taking really isnt' E. MDME and other drugs that are different than E and some more powerful are taken w/o the user knowing it. Or they are pressed with something else and not in pure form. If these were legalized then there wouldn't be a problem with getting the wrong thing.

And other people that die from E die because they take it and go to a rave and get dehydrated dancing and die from dehydration not the drug.


I think it's bullshit why Estacy is even illegal in the first place. When the chemical was first invented it was used by doctors to help couples that were having troubled marriages and it worked wonders. As it started to become more popular in that situation research started to be done on it. Well research showed that in lab rats it made holes in the brain or something like that I can't quite remember and so the gov't banned MDMA. Later other researchers tried to recreate the experiment and they could not produce the same effects. The same guy that did the first research also couldn't reproduce the same effects! But the gov't didn't care, it was banned already so it was going to stay banned.

[quotee563179b40="stueybaby17"][/quotee563179b40]

Ecstasy has sent a growing number of people to the emergency room. Between 1998 and 2001, the number of Ecstasy-related emergency room visits in San Diego County increased from 14 to 51, said John Redman, co-chairman of the county Club Drug Task Force. "I am very alarmed by the numbers," said Redman. "[be563179b40]The kids that are taking it are unaware of the dangers[/be563179b40]."

Evidence is also mounting that regular use of the drug may cause long-term brain changes which may be linked to an increased risk of mental health problems, [be563179b40]including chronic depression[/be563179b40]. Studies have already suggested that the drug is toxic to the neurones in the brain, and that it may kill cells which produce a vital mood chemical called seratonin. [be563179b40]An autopsy of a 26-year-old long-term heavy user of Ecstasy revealed that he had up to 80% less serotonin in his brain than normal.[/be563179b40]

The results of the study indicate that recreational ecstasy users may be at risk of [be563179b40]developing permanent brain damage[/be563179b40] that may manifest itself in depression, anxiety, memory loss, and other neuropsychotic disorders.


All taken from
http//www.ecstasyeffects.net/danger.htm

Sounds like fun. and oh ya one day, if you want to live, you will be 30 or even 40. You still want these side effects lingering around?

mr anti drugs has stepping into this thread.

its good to see

[quote958c0afe95="good2speed"][quote958c0afe95="stueybaby17"][/quote958c0afe95]

Ecstasy has sent a growing number of people to the emergency room. Between 1998 and 2001, the number of Ecstasy-related emergency room visits in San Diego County increased from 14 to 51, said John Redman, co-chairman of the county Club Drug Task Force. "I am very alarmed by the numbers," said Redman. "[b958c0afe95]The kids that are taking it are unaware of the dangers[/b958c0afe95]."

Evidence is also mounting that regular use of the drug may cause long-term brain changes which may be linked to an increased risk of mental health problems, [b958c0afe95]including chronic depression[/b958c0afe95]. Studies have already suggested that the drug is toxic to the neurones in the brain, and that it may kill cells which produce a vital mood chemical called seratonin. [b958c0afe95]An autopsy of a 26-year-old long-term heavy user of Ecstasy revealed that he had up to 80% less serotonin in his brain than normal.[/b958c0afe95]

The results of the study indicate that recreational ecstasy users may be at risk of [b958c0afe95]developing permanent brain damage[/b958c0afe95] that may manifest itself in depression, anxiety, memory loss, and other neuropsychotic disorders.


All taken from
http//www.ecstasyeffects.net/danger.htm

Sounds like fun. and oh ya one day, if you want to live, you will be 30
or even 40. You still want these side effects lingering around?[/quote958c0afe95]

"[b958c0afe95]The kids that are taking it are unaware of the dangers[/b958c0afe95]."

Ok yes. Ecstacy can be dangerous. And you will lower you serotonin levels, which can cause depresion. But I'm not talking about using ecstacy every day. Ecstacy isn't meant to be used everyday, and wont' really work teh way it's supposed to if you use it everyday.

Ecstacy causes your brain to just full out dump your serotonin. Serotonin is what makes you happy, and hence why taking E makes you euphoric. And if you do take it all the time there wont' be enough serotonin to dump so the chemicals will start attatching themselves to the serotonin receptors and will cause some problems. But if you only use it once in a while there are very few problems.

What about the medical effects of ecstacy. It was used before to help marriages with great success? If a phychiatrist (i can't spell) can do so much good with it then why does it have to be full out illegal. It could at least be a schedule II.

And are you against tobacco and alcohol too? Kids dont' realize the risk of that and I dont know the facts but I'd venture to say more people die from those drugs than from E.

Thank you nytrate. I completely agree with you.

Although, in ecstasy's defense, pure MDMA powder is currently undergoing a clinical trial with PTSD victims to study its psychotherapeutic effects. The plan is to make MDMA into a prescription medicine.

On the street, ecstasy is sometimes laced with more dangerous drugs like speed or whatever.. which is the real damage. MDMA, when not abused, has not been showed to yield any dangers.

Again, it's about moderation...

And the study by the govt that showed the before and after photo of a brain on ecstasy was definite propaganda/scare tactics and falsified science. Further investigations showed that, due to a human "label-reading" error, they may have been testing a form of methamphetamine instead.

Furthermore, LSD and the like have INCREDIBLE therapeutic effects which have been documented in the 60's when research was actually legal. MANY psychedelics can be used in psychotherapy as it as it produces a profound state of self-reflection and provides access to areas of our subconscious and such that are ordinarily very difficult to reach.

They also can provide doorways to other forms of medicine. For example, Salvia Divinorum is currently being tested for its analgesic and anti-depression effects. Salvinorin A.. which is the active compound in Salvia, is an extremely unique and new in a sense that it targets a highly selective kappa-opoid receptor agonist (instead of most other psychedelics which target serotonin receptors), and because of this it has a very high potential to create new and valuable medications.

But unfortunately our government and science turns their head at the obvious potential psychedelics have... demonizing them, making them illegal and thus making research illegal. I think that's a big mistake.

[quote6979d13f81="bruman"]Thank you nytrate. I completely agree with you.

Although, in ecstasy's defense, pure MDMA powder is currently undergoing a clinical trial with PTSD victims to study its psychotherapeutic effects. The plan is to make MDMA into a prescription medicine.

On the street, ecstasy is sometimes laced with more dangerous drugs like speed or whatever.. which is the real damage. MDMA, when not abused, has not been showed to yield any dangers.

Again, it's about moderation...

And the study by the govt that showed the before and after photo of a brain on ecstasy was definite propaganda/scare tactics and falsified science. Further investigations showed that, due to a human "label-reading" error, they may have been testing a form of methamphetamine instead.

Furthermore, LSD and the like have INCREDIBLE therapeutic effects which have been documented in the 60's when research was actually legal. MANY psychedelics can be used in psychotherapy as it as it produces a profound state of self-reflection and provides access to areas of our subconscious and such that are ordinarily very difficult to reach.

They also can provide doorways to other forms of medicine. For example, Salvia Divinorum is currently being tested for its analgesic and anti-depression effects. Salvinorin A.. which is the active compound in Salvia, is an extremely unique and new in a sense that it targets a highly selective kappa-opoid receptor agonist (instead of most other psychedelics which target serotonin receptors), and because of this it has a very high potential to create new and valuable medications.

But unfortunately our government and science turns their head at the obvious potential psychedelics have... demonizing them, making them illegal and thus making research illegal. I think that's a big mistake.[/quote6979d13f81]

Thank you for supporting me! P

I'm with good2speed on pretty much everything he is saying.

[quote99fda71b4f="good2speed"][quote99fda71b4f="TriforceXHacks"]Natural and un-adulterated psychadelic substances should be decriminalized. Salvia, Psylocibin (Mushrooms), and Peyote are all absolutely amazing. =)[/quote99fda71b4f]

Ladies and gentleman I present to you the future Americans. Please feel free to slash your wrists at anytime before they get old enough to start making some important decisions.[/quote99fda71b4f]

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you the future Americans. Please feel free to slash you wrists at anytime before they get old enough to start legislating laws to prevent thought and introspective thinking in our youth. Mr. Naive. Mr Drug Free. Mr. Right!

lol you must not be a formerly banned member if you don't know who good2speed is.

[quote8d9202b9ee="justinag06"]lol you must not be a formerly banned member if you don't know who good2speed is.[/quote8d9202b9ee]

Who is he?

Fuck it, Nytrate and I will just go Fear & Loathing FiPG one day haha! Call me when your in Jersey !

he is far from Mr. Drug Free and Mr. Naive based on his posts from the past. Well he is naive if he thinks the Heat can take the Mavs again in the finals this year, but that's another story, and it's a little too soon for NBA talk around here.

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/b9d8248c1040f3914ff447df3d28044a.gif[" alt=""/img37b7dcb102]

good2speed's "arguments" are incredibly weak, they're not even worth mentioning. All he's doing is attacking the person writing the comments, not the actual comments.

Obviously you think you know something good2speed, so give me some facts and maybe I'll listen.

[quoted972feda6c="O4F-Manofice"]I'm with good2speed on pretty much everything he is saying.[/quoted972feda6c]

thx for the support.

[quoted972feda6c="TriforceXHacks"] Mr. Naive. Mr Drug Free. Mr. Right![/quoted972feda6c]

sure just keep reading justinag's post

[quoted972feda6c="justinag06"][bd972feda6c]he is far from Mr. Drug Free and Mr. Naive[/bd972feda6c] based on his posts from the past. Well he is naive if he thinks the Heat can take the Mavs again in the finals this year, but that's another story, and it's a little too soon for NBA talk around here.

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/b9d8248c1040f3914ff447df3d28044a.gif[" alt=""/imgd972feda6c][/quoted972feda6c]

Mavs are going down. You got PM...

[quoted972feda6c="bruman"]good2speed's "arguments" are incredibly weak, they're not even worth mentioning. All he's doing is attacking the person writing the comments, not the actual comments.

Obviously you think you know something good2speed, so give me some facts and maybe I'll listen.[/quoted972feda6c]

I dont know.... why dont you aks your parents, doctors, someone older then you that has a better understanding of what the side effects are. You seem to agree with your peers whom you assume have concrete understanding of a drug's effect. Are you consulting with passed users or does that not even matter.

[quoted145fe9ab3="good2speed"]I dont know.... why dont you aks your parents, doctors, someone older then you that has a better understanding of what the side effects are. You seem to agree with your peers whom you assume have concrete understanding of a drug's effect. Are you consulting with passed users or does that not even matter.[/quoted145fe9ab3]

I seem to agree with my peers? What are you talking about nytrate? Just because she posted something before me means that all my views were based upon hers? No, absolutely not. I have my own mind, I can form my own opinions and I was already educated on the subject. I was just simply agreeing with nytrate because I thought she had a sensible outlook on the issue.
Furthermore, I base all my opinions on facts - not bias. There's an incredible amount of bias towards drugs (and the grouping thereof), and the average person only sees that one side, and thats the side the government wants you to see. And thats all drugs are bad, we made them illegal, don't do them. Well, looking at the facts you can see otherwise. I absolutely do TONS of research before putting anything in my body. I look at scientific studies, I look at experience reports, I look at the facts presented before me and make my own decisions. I haven't used a lot of entheogens, and when I do its very infrequent. It's something that I want to think about, reflect upon and learn from.

Typically I put a lot of faith in traditional uses. These plants didn't come from America -- many, if not all, came from tribal groups who use them medicinally and spiritually. It's us... it's our culture that's completely rearranging the way in which they were meant to be used and turning them into something they are not.

As for the legalization of psychedelics... I do not think they should be completely 100% legal (sold in gas stations, for example). Obviously they should have some restrictions. There would need to be education involving these substances. Obviously, kids/teenagers -- which are already the most irresponsible sect of society, will misuse them and could potentially hurt themselves psychologically or would just do something stupid like try to drive under the influence. I think there should be clinics of some form, where someone, who is willing, could come in, get educated on what is going to happen to them and then partake in the substance under specific guidelines. The clinic would have to be designed to be a safe, comfortable environment. Basically authorized safe-havens were you can take it, learn from it and be safe. I think they can and should be implemented in our culture if we only had the means to do it.

Hopefully people will one day, in our western society, wake up to the realization of the powers that plants and the like have and how they can radically improve every aspect of your life.

[quotee543eb1d7f="TryinToGetPaid"]
Actually that was in the movie SLC punk, he has 100 hits of acid in his pocket and while running from the police he runs through a football field with the sprinklers on. He thinks his mom is the devil so he sits out in the show on a garbage can lid because he thinks he is in the middle of the ocean. Hell, if we make LSD legal, why not coke, crack, and heroin?[/quotee543eb1d7f]
http/" alt=""/img339.imageshack.us/img="339/7971/vlcsnap829657ku9.png[" alt=""/imge543eb1d7f]

WTF are you gonna see by using psychedelics. I mean are you going to suddenly find the cure for cancer or aids? What productivity or meaningful attibutes did you attain while high. What was it that you saw while high that leads you to believe that there should be clinics set up for this?

[quote7c64a00ac5="good2speed"]WTF are you gonna see by using psychedelics. I mean are you going to suddenly find the cure for cancer or aids? What productivity or meaningful attibutes did you attain while high. What was it that you saw while high that leads you to believe that there should be clinics set up for this?[/quote7c64a00ac5]

Obviously you're only interested in using drugs for recreational purposes. I don't even know why you're arguing with me... that view right there is exactly the type of uneducated, ignorant response that is typical for people who haven't done any research on the subject. So my suggestion to you is, do some research... then if you still feel the need to argue with me, you're welcome to do so.

This is the last thing I'll say on the subject...

Want to talk about the future of our country? Hell, psychedelic drug use is WAY down amongst teenagers and young adults compared to the 60's and 70's. Your argument fails to mention that.

Our generation (those of us who are teens-mid 20's) is the pharmaceutical generation. There are far greater dangers in pumping children full of amphetamines for their supposed "ADD" and throwing every teenager who gets anxious benzos (isn't anxiety part of growing up?).

You say you're frightened for the future but the future is here. The baby-boomers saw much more dramatic drug use in their youth and are now the ones running the country.

Personally, i'm scared for our future as well. Seems half the population is dependant on pharmaceuticals to just live their lives. Just to read a book they need speed (dextroamphetamine) then they need to counteract that with a sleeping pill or anxiety meds at night time so they can sleep. Please! Shrinks are the ones rotting the minds of the youth, not psychedelics.

But of course, too much of anything can be destructive. I just think alcohol and pharmaceuticals pose a much larger danger to society.

[quoted1ff99045a="nytrate"]This is the last thing I'll say on the subject...

Want to talk about the future of our country? Hell, psychedelic drug use is WAY down amongst teenagers and young adults compared to the 60's and 70's. Your argument fails to mention that.

Our generation (those of us who are teens-mid 20's) is the pharmaceutical generation. There are far greater dangers in pumping children full of amphetamines for their supposed "ADD" and throwing every teenager who gets anxious benzos (isn't anxiety part of growing up?).

You say you're frightened for the future but the future is here. The baby-boomers saw much more dramatic drug use in their youth and are now the ones running the country.

Personally, i'm scared for our future as well. Seems half the population is dependant on pharmaceuticals to just live their lives. Just to read a book they need speed (dextroamphetamine) then they need to counteract that with a sleeping pill or anxiety meds at night time so they can sleep. Please! Shrinks are the ones rotting the minds of the youth, not psychedelics.

But of course, too much of anything can be destructive. I just think alcohol and pharmaceuticals pose a much larger danger to society.[/quoted1ff99045a]

Agreed!

It isn't an epidemic. It isn't a problem.

[quote6e113af51e="good2speed"][quote6e113af51e="O4F-Manofice"]I'm with good2speed on pretty much everything he is saying.[/quote6e113af51e]

thx for the support.

[quote6e113af51e="TriforceXHacks"] Mr. Naive. Mr Drug Free. Mr. Right![/quote6e113af51e]

sure just keep reading justinag's post

[quote6e113af51e="justinag06"][b6e113af51e]he is far from Mr. Drug Free and Mr. Naive[/b6e113af51e] based on his posts from the past. Well he is naive if he thinks the Heat can take the Mavs again in the finals this year, but that's another story, and it's a little too soon for NBA talk around here.

http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/b9d8248c1040f3914ff447df3d28044a.gif[" alt=""/img6e113af51e][/quote6e113af51e]

Mavs are going down. You got PM...

[quote6e113af51e="bruman"]good2speed's "arguments" are incredibly weak, they're not even worth mentioning. All he's doing is attacking the person writing the comments, not the actual comments.

Obviously you think you know something good2speed, so give me some facts and maybe I'll listen.[/quote6e113af51e]

I dont know.... why dont you aks your parents, doctors, someone older then you that has a better understanding of what the side effects are. You seem to agree with your peers whom you assume have concrete understanding of a drug's effect. Are you consulting with passed users or does that not even matter.[/quote6e113af51e]

Ok, my friends dad is the head of the ER and has been a doctor for a long time. We mentioned it to him before and he told us about how it's not good and whatnot. The we said pretty much the same thing I and bruman said in previous posts and how it's how people use it wrong and abuse ecstasy.

He had no response. He just sat in silence. Then my friend rubbed it in about how he was right and the Dr.'s respone was "Well its' [b6e113af51e] still [/b6e113af51e] illegal."

Of course doctors and parents are gonna say they are bad for you. Most parents dont' know anymore than what the gov and tv tells them. And it is a Dr.'s job to tell you they are bad because you are right, they can be bad and do kill people. But it's because of the quality of the drugs because they are produced on the street, along with the fact that people dont' know how to use it. If you sit down with a Dr. and have a serious conversation and know all your facts (my friend does he is awesome with this stuff) they wont' be able to argue too much with you.[/b]

i have to go to class so i dont have time to really type up an answer but whether they legalize it or not im still gonna smoke it ;)

Peace

[quote6931de7222="bruman"][quote6931de7222="good2speed"]WTF are you gonna see by using psychedelics. I mean are you going to suddenly find the cure for cancer or aids? What productivity or meaningful attibutes did you attain while high. What was it that you saw while high that leads you to believe that there should be clinics set up for this?[/quote6931de7222]

Obviously you're only interested in using drugs for recreational purposes. I don't even know why you're arguing with me... that view right there is exactly the type of uneducated, ignorant response that is typical for people who haven't done any research on the subject. So my suggestion to you is, do some research... then if you still feel the need to argue with me, you're welcome to do so.[/quote6931de7222]

ya id love to but I appear to be living a happy life without psychedlics. Hey I might be the weird one who knows since I can live my life without the need for them and see no need to research something that serves no purpose to me. But hey if for some reason I get down on life and bottom out and decide psychedlics are the answer to all my problems I will hit you up for some info. Maybe you can show me the light so I can begin to comprehend matters that are incomprehendable to a sober person.

http/" alt=""/img144.imageshack.us/img="144/932/ownedwf2.png[" alt=""/imgedd208b2ce]
Sorry to venture off topic but im wondering if anyone here who smokes or knows a lot about hookas. I used to smoke those every now and then cause i thought they were less harmful than cigs....
http//english.aljazeera.net/English/archive/archive?ArchiveId=13201
some of the claims in the artcle seem a little "out there" to me but i might be wrong

[quote20c7975aba="JUNIOR6886"]http/" alt=""/img144.imageshack.us/img="144/932/ownedwf2.png[" alt=""/img20c7975aba][/quote20c7975aba]

It took me a good 5 minutes to figure out whats going on in this picture.. lol!

[quotef745daf13a="nytrate"]This is the last thing I'll say on the subject...

Want to talk about the future of our country? Hell, psychedelic drug use is WAY down amongst teenagers and young adults compared to the 60's and 70's. Your argument fails to mention that.

Our generation (those of us who are teens-mid 20's) is the pharmaceutical generation. There are far greater dangers in pumping children full of amphetamines for their supposed "ADD" and throwing every teenager who gets anxious benzos (isn't anxiety part of growing up?).

You say you're frightened for the future but the future is here. The baby-boomers saw much more dramatic drug use in their youth and are now the ones running the country.

Personally, i'm scared for our future as well. Seems half the population is dependant on pharmaceuticals to just live their lives. Just to read a book they need speed (dextroamphetamine) then they need to counteract that with a sleeping pill or anxiety meds at night time so they can sleep. Please! Shrinks are the ones rotting the minds of the youth, not psychedelics.

But of course, too much of anything can be destructive. I just think alcohol and pharmaceuticals pose a much larger danger to society.[/quotef745daf13a]

Very interesting viewpoint. I apologize for coming across so harsh before. I still do feel however that full legalization of psychs is immmoral and will do more to corrupt our youth. I do however respect you opinion as it was well presented. I do agree with your comments about the psychiatrists who prescribe so many drugs to the kids. Were a messed up society at large but there is no need to legalize psychs when as a country at large we can't even control ourselves in a traffic jam.

Out of 19,000 accidental/unnatural deaths in New York City (in a recent one-year period) that had an autopsy performed, only 22 bodies had ecstasy in their systems. Out of those 22, only two had died as a direct result of ecstasy. 2 deaths in New York City, in one year. According to the DEA, guess how many doses of the drug were taken in NYC during that same year

110,000,000. According to those stats, the odds of you dying from ecstasy alone is 1 in 55 million.

and always check our erowid.org its the best drug website on the web.

[quote3c1443da02="good2speed"][quote3c1443da02="bruman"][quote3c1443da02="good2speed"]WTF are you gonna see by using psychedelics. I mean are you going to suddenly find the cure for cancer or aids? What productivity or meaningful attibutes did you attain while high. What was it that you saw while high that leads you to believe that there should be clinics set up for this?[/quote3c1443da02]

Obviously you're only interested in using drugs for recreational purposes. I don't even know why you're arguing with me... that view right there is exactly the type of uneducated, ignorant response that is typical for people who haven't done any research on the subject. So my suggestion to you is, do some research... then if you still feel the need to argue with me, you're welcome to do so.[/quote3c1443da02]

ya id love to but I appear to be living a happy life without psychedlics. Hey I might be the weird one who knows since I can live my life without the need for them and see no need to research something that serves no purpose to me. But hey if for some reason I get down on life and bottom out and decide psychedlics are the answer to all my problems I will hit you up for some info. Maybe you can show me the light so I can begin to comprehend matters that are incomprehendable to a sober person.[/quote3c1443da02]

I'm not arguing that you can't live a happy life without psychedelics. Psychedelics are more of a key to the door of your mind. It unlocks things in your subconsciouses and psyche that are unreachable during normal states of consciousness. Childhood memories, traumas, etc. And then theres the spiritual aspects to it and the teachings about the nature of reality. It, more than anything, shows the amazing potential of the human brain. It's a tool... like anything. I'm not saying they're for everyone -- they're not. If you're afraid to explore your own mind then don't.

Am I trying to tell you to take them? No, I'm not. I'm simply telling you what's out there and the possibilities they have. If you aren't open to the possibility of accepting anything other than your own narrow view of reality, that's fine by me. Just don't be trying to argue something that you know nothing about.

[quotea599eeec3b="good2speed"]But hey if for some reason I get down on life and bottom out and decide psychedlics are the answer to all my problems I will hit you up for some info. [/quotea599eeec3b]

I said I was done...but I'll add one more thing. Psychedelics are linotli the kind of thing you take when you're "down on life" or "bottomed out".

In fact, that's why it's hard for me to consider them in the same category as other drugs. What they do is temporarily kill your ego, allowing you to see yourself from a perspective you've never looked from before. People say it's like looking through a young child's eyes, as it strips away your pretensions and basically allows you to observe things from an entirely unique perspective.

When people take them in bad situations or depressed, that's when the bad stuff happens. Bad trips, people flipping out...etc.

In fact, I've seen many people swear off other drugs/vices while on acid and actually follow through on it. Leary used to say that LSD was the answer for alcoholism...because once you're on it and you examine yourself and what you're doing to your body you start to make priorities.

I have a bunch of friends that were taking a lot of different drugs like ecstasy and coke and lots of booze and are now clean thanks to psychedelics. It's weird to comprehend if you've never been there, but just from my perspective it has done a decent amount of good for people's lives.

In fact, I myself made the decision to never touch drugs aside from pot again while on it. And I haven't gone back on that decision including not even having a single beer. I don't plan on taking it again anytime soon but I'm sure there will come a time where I will. Considering the path many people around me have gone down and the one I was headed down at quite an early age, one could almost say that it saved me. It made me reevaluate my goals and ambitions and the health of my body.

Of course, for every person I know who it has helped recheck their life I know a person that has burned out on it and just takes it to "get high"

I'd say the one scary/dangerous thing about psychedelics is that it can trigger mental instability in people who are inclined to it. Like, if you have mental health problems in your family like psychosis or schizophrenia...taking these can trigger those earlier. That notion is definitely frightening even though it applies to a small % of people.

[quoteed4fe27346="bruman"]
I'm not arguing that you can't live a happy life without psychedelics. Psychedelics are more of a key to the door of your mind. It unlocks things in your subconsciouses and psyche that are unreachable during normal states of consciousness. Childhood memories, traumas, etc. And then theres the spiritual aspects to it and the teachings about the nature of reality. It, more than anything, shows the amazing potential of the human brain. It's a tool... like anything. I'm not saying they're for everyone -- they're not. If you're afraid to explore your own mind then don't.

Am I trying to tell you to take them? No, I'm not. I'm simply telling you what's out there and the possibilities they have. If you aren't open to the possibility of accepting anything other than your own narrow view of reality, that's fine by me. Just don't be trying to argue something that you know nothing about.[/quoteed4fe27346]

Oh you assume I never tripped out in my life. Now I get it. Who's the one making unfound assumptions now? I did grow up in a hs school similar to yours and was far from a square so yes I have experimented children. Otherwsie I wouldnt speak since I would just be sounding uninformed and repetitive in my dont do drugs stance which is lame if you never actually did the drugs yourself.

As far as being able to see things I think you were hallucinating. Maybe some depressed person who has deep issues of repressing bad childhood memories would need this but I had a healthy childhood. I think the best thing I came up with while high was that life is all about the thirst. In its essence I suppose that means that those who are hungry/thristy for life will live much happier.

As i got older I started to realize that revelation didnt require psychedelics and I probably wouldve came across a similar viewpoint by reading a book or talking to people. Not everything requries the help of psychedlics. In fact not too much does and I suppose from your post its only important use is to help a patient, who's severely troubled, help rememeber unpleasant memories from their childhood. Well guess what thats not for everyone and has a limited target market. Not everyone has had a troubled childhood some of us actually had good parents.

[quoteed4fe27346="nytrate"]
In fact, that's why it's hard for me to consider them in the same category as other drugs. [bed4fe27346]What they do is temporarily kill your ego, allowing you to see yourself from a perspective you've never looked from before. [/bed4fe27346] People say it's like looking through a young child's eyes, as it strips away your pretensions and basically allows you to observe things from an entirely unique perspective.

When people take them in bad situations or depressed, that's when the bad stuff happens. Bad trips, people flipping out...etc.

In fact, I've seen many people swear off other drugs/vices while on acid and actually follow through on it. Leary used to say that LSD was the answer for alcoholism...because once you're on it and you examine yourself and what you're doing to your body you start to make priorities.

I have a bunch of friends that were taking a lot of different drugs like ecstasy and coke and lots of booze and are now clean thanks to psychedelics. It's weird to comprehend if you've never been there, but just from my perspective it has done a decent amount of good for people's lives.

In fact, I myself made the decision to never touch drugs aside from pot again while on it. And I haven't gone back on that decision including not even having a single beer. I don't plan on taking it again anytime soon but I'm sure there will come a time where I will. Considering the path many people around me have gone down and the one I was headed down at quite an early age, one could almost say that it saved me. It made me reevaluate my goals and ambitions and the health of my body.

Of course, for every person I know who it has helped recheck their life I know a person that has burned out on it and just takes it to "get high"

I'd say the one scary/dangerous thing about psychedelics is that it can trigger mental instability in people who are inclined to it. Like, if you have mental health problems in your family like psychosis or schizophrenia...taking these can trigger those earlier. That notion is definitely frightening even though it applies to a small % of people.[/quoteed4fe27346]

not sure if you're referring to an existential view point on life but I'm sure there are other methods that allow you to do so without the need for psychs. I think what your basically referring to is seperating the mind from the body and to try to attain an understanding of your internal and external. I suppose there are religions that do this and some people have claimed to acheive this through meditation. You do not need drugs for anything and youd be surprised what you can accomplish through meditation and breathing.

[quote7e87f429cf="good2speed"][quote7e87f429cf="bruman"]
I'm not arguing that you can't live a happy life without psychedelics. Psychedelics are more of a key to the door of your mind. It unlocks things in your subconsciouses and psyche that are unreachable during normal states of consciousness. Childhood memories, traumas, etc. And then theres the spiritual aspects to it and the teachings about the nature of reality. It, more than anything, shows the amazing potential of the human brain. It's a tool... like anything. I'm not saying they're for everyone -- they're not. If you're afraid to explore your own mind then don't.

Am I trying to tell you to take them? No, I'm not. I'm simply telling you what's out there and the possibilities they have. If you aren't open to the possibility of accepting anything other than your own narrow view of reality, that's fine by me. Just don't be trying to argue something that you know nothing about.[/quote7e87f429cf]

Oh you assume I never tripped out in my life. Now I get it. Who's the one making unfound assumptions now? I did grow up in a hs school similar to yours and was far from a square so yes I have experimented children. Otherwsie I wouldnt speak since I would just be sounding uninformed and repetitive in my dont do drugs stance which is lame if you never actually did the drugs yourself.

As far as being able to see things I think you were hallucinating. Maybe some depressed person who has deep issues of repressing bad childhood memories would need this but I had a healthy childhood. I think the best thing I came up with while high was that life is all about the thirst. In its essence I suppose that means that those who are hungry/thristy for life will live much happier.

As i got older I started to realize that revelation didnt require psychedelics and I probably wouldve came across a similar viewpoint by reading a book or talking to people. Not everything requries the help of psychedlics. In fact not too much does and I suppose from your post its only important use is to help a patient, who's severely troubled, help rememeber unpleasant memories from their childhood. Well guess what thats not for everyone and has a limited target market. Not everyone has had a troubled childhood some of us actually had good parents.[/quote7e87f429cf]

I wasn't saying you haven't tripped out in your life. In your other thread many months ago you admitted to coke and pot use... so why not other things? I am saying there is a specific and dramatic distinction between using them recreationally, to have fun,... which, by what I judge, is what you were doing, or using them either spiritually or intellectually. If you don't have that mindset that you want to get something out of the experience, you won't. And I said psychedelics weren't for everyone. I was just using childhood memories as an example, which you blew way out of proportion. And, I never even said unpleasant memories, did I? In fact, I was referring to retrieving pleasant childhood memories, not traumatic ones. But, on that subject, one of my points were that I do think psychedelics hit many points in your life and would be an astonishing tool if used in psychotherapy. I do believe they can help any willing person as, many times, it can show you your faults and you can view yourself in another persons eye. One of them is, as nytrate said, ego dissolution. Which, judging by the put-downs and the fact that you are still arguing with us about this, i'm sure could do you some good.

Man you guys write too much. I can't read all this so I'll just say
Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?

[quote439bd5a3f6="Wolfeman"]Man you guys write too much. I can't read all this so I'll just say
Drugs are bad, mmmmkay?[/quote439bd5a3f6]

Alcohol is much worse, which I know you've had your fair share of.

[quote6a402ae8c1="bruman"] I do believe they can help any willing person as, many times, it can show you your faults and you can view yourself in another persons eye. One of them is, as nytrate said, ego dissolution. Which, judging by the put-downs and the fact that you are still arguing with us about this, i'm sure could do you some good.[/quote6a402ae8c1]

Why not just talk to people and be open to criticism if you want to find out your inherent faults. Hell even a conscience goes along way in solving that issue. I dont need drugs for anything. Some may believe they do but they havent lived long enough. You make it sound as if psychedlics are the only way of attaining enlightenment into self prespective and seeing things from an external point of view. You know how ridiculous that sounds.

Its not me but you with the closed mind if you believe the use of psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something.

Yeah I was really into this topic. But it's getting too long and I'm just getting tooo lazy to read all of it. I'm just gonna let bruman and nytrate fight my point of view.

[quote809324128d="good2speed"]
not sure if you're referring to an existential view point on life but I'm sure there are other methods that allow you to do so without the need for psychs. I think what your basically referring to is seperating the mind from the body and to try to attain an understanding of your internal and external. [/quote809324128d]

What's that have to do with existentialism? Existentialism has little to do with viewing yourself from a different perspective or seperating mind and body. Existentialism is, in a very very basic way, the belief and associated philosophy that we control our own destiny or "fate" and create our own "meaning" or reason for existing. That our actions upon society or the world supersedes the natural order.

So, I don't get what you're referring to.

[quote8ec56a2e33="good2speed"][quote8ec56a2e33="bruman"] I do believe they can help any willing person as, many times, it can show you your faults and you can view yourself in another persons eye. One of them is, as nytrate said, ego dissolution. Which, judging by the put-downs and the fact that you are still arguing with us about this, i'm sure could do you some good.[/quote8ec56a2e33]

Why not just talk to people and be open to criticism if you want to find out your inherent faults. Hell even a conscience goes along way in solving that issue. I dont need drugs for anything. Some may believe they do but they havent lived long enough. You make it sound as if psychedlics are the only way of attaining enlightenment into self prespective and seeing things from an external point of view. You know how ridiculous that sounds.

Its not me but you with the closed mind if you believe the use of psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something.[/quote8ec56a2e33]

I'm not even saying that. I make it sound like psychedelics are the only way of attaining enlightenment? No, they're not. But we're talking about psychedelics... not other things, thats why I haven't mentioned anything else. I put psychedelics in a completely new category than meditation, yoga, etc. I guarantee you, you will not find anything more DIRECT and profound then actually exploring your own mind with visuals, visions, audio, energy, whatever.

And I don't believe psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something... in fact, by themselves, they are not going to accomplish anything. All i'm saying is that they are a valuable tool, used for centuries upon centuries and should be used maybe 1-2 times per year max. It's not soley about the experience... it's about taking what you've learned from the experience and using that to gain insight and improve your life in this reality.

[quote29d830f3e5="bruman"][quote29d830f3e5="good2speed"][quote29d830f3e5="bruman"] I do believe they can help any willing person as, many times, it can show you your faults and you can view yourself in another persons eye. One of them is, as nytrate said, ego dissolution. Which, judging by the put-downs and the fact that you are still arguing with us about this, i'm sure could do you some good.[/quote29d830f3e5]

Why not just talk to people and be open to criticism if you want to find out your inherent faults. Hell even a conscience goes along way in solving that issue. I dont need drugs for anything. Some may believe they do but they havent lived long enough. You make it sound as if psychedlics are the only way of attaining enlightenment into self prespective and seeing things from an external point of view. You know how ridiculous that sounds.

Its not me but you with the closed mind if you believe the use of psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something.[/quote29d830f3e5]

I'm not even saying that. I make it sound like psychedelics are the only way of attaining enlightenment? No, they're not. But we're talking about psychedelics... not other things, thats why I haven't mentioned anything else. I put psychedelics in a completely new category than meditation, yoga, etc. I guarantee you, you will not find anything more DIRECT and profound then actually exploring your own mind with visuals, visions, audio, energy, whatever.

And I don't believe psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something... in fact, by themselves, they are not going to accomplish anything. All i'm saying is that they are a valuable tool, used for centuries upon centuries and should be used maybe 1-2 times per year max. It's not soley about the experience... it's about taking what you've learned from the experience and using that to gain insight and improve your life in this reality.[/quote29d830f3e5]

so let me ask one final time. What did you gain from taking psychs?

[i29d830f3e5]it's about taking what you've learned from the experience and using that to gain insight and improve your life in this reality.[/i29d830f3e5]

so specifically tell me what it is that you learned while on psychedelics that helps you in your current state?

How have you improved your life, [i29d830f3e5]in this reality[/i29d830f3e5], specifically through the use of psychs?

I just cooked up a big batch of salvia extract .. anyone want some?

I've got my heroin on simmer.

[quoteb4f3d45ad9="TryinToGetPaid"]I've got my heroin on simmer.[/quoteb4f3d45ad9]

Eeek, your kidding right?

Of course not, fixin to shoot it up right now and go visit TSJ so I can look under his man skirt.

So back in November we voted for our county to decriminalize Marijuana and asked our police force to focus on felony or more heinous crimes. The bill passed but are oh so considerate government feels that voters didn't understand what they were voting for and have now decided to change that bill which was already passed.



http//missoulian.com/articles/2007/03/22/news/top/news01.txt

some of you are fucked up.

well excuse me goody 2 shoes

LOL I love how some people think they're badass just cause they do drugs... roll Although after doing some thinking Ive kinda changed my views on marijuana.

[quote0293ae1399="good2speed"][quote0293ae1399="bruman"][quote0293ae1399="good2speed"][quote0293ae1399="bruman"] I do believe they can help any willing person as, many times, it can show you your faults and you can view yourself in another persons eye. One of them is, as nytrate said, ego dissolution. Which, judging by the put-downs and the fact that you are still arguing with us about this, i'm sure could do you some good.[/quote0293ae1399]

Why not just talk to people and be open to criticism if you want to find out your inherent faults. Hell even a conscience goes along way in solving that issue. I dont need drugs for anything. Some may believe they do but they havent lived long enough. You make it sound as if psychedlics are the only way of attaining enlightenment into self prespective and seeing things from an external point of view. You know how ridiculous that sounds.

Its not me but you with the closed mind if you believe the use of psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something.[/quote0293ae1399]

I'm not even saying that. I make it sound like psychedelics are the only way of attaining enlightenment? No, they're not. But we're talking about psychedelics... not other things, thats why I haven't mentioned anything else. I put psychedelics in a completely new category than meditation, yoga, etc. I guarantee you, you will not find anything more DIRECT and profound then actually exploring your own mind with visuals, visions, audio, energy, whatever.

And I don't believe psychedelics are the only means of accomplishing something... in fact, by themselves, they are not going to accomplish anything. All i'm saying is that they are a valuable tool, used for centuries upon centuries and should be used maybe 1-2 times per year max. It's not soley about the experience... it's about taking what you've learned from the experience and using that to gain insight and improve your life in this reality.[/quote0293ae1399]

so let me ask one final time. What did you gain from taking psychs?

[i0293ae1399]it's about taking what you've learned from the experience and using that to gain insight and improve your life in this reality.[/i0293ae1399]

so specifically tell me what it is that you learned while on psychedelics that helps you in your current state?

How have you improved your life, [i0293ae1399]in this reality[/i0293ae1399], specifically through the use of psychs?[/quote0293ae1399]

I haven't taken many at all and I still consider myself a beginner but it definitely gave me a deeper understanding of how reality manifests itself via our perception. I think that realization has a spiritual sense because it showed me that.., well, this is kind of hard to explain, but I guess you could say that our spiritual being is the true being and our mind, our consciousness, our perception of reality is the creation of higher forces and this reality that we perceive is just one step in our journey as spiritual beings.

Aside from the spiritual aspect, it has really improved my life entirely. It has given, in fact, more meaning to this existence. I have a new found appreciation for nature and the beauty of mother nature that can be found all around us. It's that connection, that "oneness" that is really remarkable. I am doing better in school and have increased my relationships with my friends and family. It helped me understand that knowledge really is key and i've been seeking it ever sense.

Also, I had pretty bad social anxiety due to a few events in my past. Psychedelics have helped me come to terms with that by facing it directly, and, for the most part, I think i've almost healed those scars. I don't know when the last time I really experienced anxiety... it just seems kind of separate from my mind... kind of like, before, it was just one big thing and I didn't know how to deal with it, but now it's just split into pieces, and I can see all around it and I understand it now and don't have to deal with it. I guess thats a decent way of putting it... like I said, many times, its very hard to explain and pinpoint exactly what the process is.. it's not something thats materialistic, its the workings of your mind.

Like I said, I don't really have that much first-hand experience (salvia, maybe 10 times and a rather low dose of psilocybin mushrooms), but I can definitely relate to what other people have noted as experiencing and am sure of the possibilities that entheogens can have. I know there's more out there to discover and am thankful and excited to learn from other plants/substances when the time is right.

[quote37cd158495="bruman"]
I haven't taken many at all and I still consider myself a beginner but it definitely gave me a deeper understanding of how reality manifests itself via our perception. I think that realization has a spiritual sense because it showed me that.., well, this is kind of hard to explain, but I guess you could say that our spiritual being is the true being and our mind, our consciousness, our perception of reality is the creation of higher forces and this reality that we perceive is just one step in our journey as spiritual beings.

Aside from the spiritual aspect, it has really improved my life entirely. It has given, in fact, more meaning to this existence. I have a new found appreciation for nature and the beauty of mother nature that can be found all around us. It's that connection, that "oneness" that is really remarkable. I am doing better in school and have increased my relationships with my friends and family. It helped me understand that knowledge really is key and i've been seeking it ever sense.

Also, I had pretty bad social anxiety due to a few events in my past. Psychedelics have helped me come to terms with that by facing it directly, and, for the most part, I think i've almost healed those scars. I don't know when the last time I really experienced anxiety... it just seems kind of separate from my mind... kind of like, before, it was just one big thing and I didn't know how to deal with it, but now it's just split into pieces, and I can see all around it and I understand it now and don't have to deal with it. I guess thats a decent way of putting it... like I said, many times, its very hard to explain and pinpoint exactly what the process is.. it's not something thats materialistic, its the workings of your mind.

Like I said, I don't really have that much first-hand experience (salvia, maybe 10 times and a rather low dose of psilocybin mushrooms), but I can definitely relate to what other people have noted as experiencing and am sure of the possibilities that entheogens can have. I know there's more out there to discover and am thankful and excited to learn from other plants/substances when the time is right.[/quote37cd158495]

now try to understand why this will never be legalized. Suppose it was up for legislation and the US senate committee on the use of psychedelic drugs commisioned you to this session and asked you the same simple question I asked you. ( What did you specifically gain/learn from psychs that lead you to believe they should be legalized?)

Now lets analyze your response

[i37cd158495][b37cd158495]I guess[/b37cd158495] you could say that our spiritual being is the true being and our mind, our consciousness, our perception of reality is the creation of higher forces[/i37cd158495] [/color37cd158495]

whatever that means. For gods sake I'm a Senator son what does that even mean. And I asked specific not a[i37cd158495] I guess [/i37cd158495].

[i37cd158495]I am doing better in school and have increased my relationships with my friends and family. [/i37cd158495] [/color37cd158495]

thats very good to know but the real question may lie in why you weren't good in school earlier and why you may have had poor relationships with family and friends. Are you suggesting that psychs are a remedy to any poor school performance and/or domestic issues? All in all not convincing enough and there is no evidence to suggest the use of psychs will increase one's interest in his/her studies.

[i37cd158495]Also, I had pretty bad social anxiety due to a few events in my past. Psychedelics have helped me come to terms with that by facing it directly, and, for the most part, I think i've almost healed those scars.[/i37cd158495] [/color37cd158495]

another good thing to know that you overcame anxiety issues. People who use psychs however are susceptible to severe paranoia which may lead to increased anxiety in a user. Once again your point is inconclusive as there is no evidence to suggest that all users of psychs overcame severe anxiety issues.

[i37cd158495]
I guess thats a decent way of putting it... like I said, many times, its very hard to explain and pinpoint exactly what the process is.[/i37cd158495][/color37cd158495]

it was a pretty simple straight forward question. NOT a time to guess be more specific. If you cant pinpoint it then how are you going to convince the committee to rule in your favor?

[i37cd158495]Like I said, I don't really have that much first-hand experience[/i37cd158495]
[/color37cd158495]
Wait you want us to legalize this drug but yourself don't have much experiecne with the drug?

[i06122a82c5]<My>[/i06122a82c5]

My two cents

Yes, I think it should be legalized AND decriminilized - the "war on drugs" wastes money, fills our prisons with non-violent offenders, and has been proven ineffective by many studies. Criminalization of drugs (I believe) does the opposite of the intended effect - it puts the drugs and money in the hands of criminals and increases crime (as the demand is always there and is in fact increasing, so crime increases).

Is it moral? That depends on your morality. ) If you believe tobacco and alcohol use are moral, then so should be pot.

Is it viable? I'm not sure I get what you mean....

Does it have a place in our society? YES, we don't have any CHOICE. It is already here. )

arrow http//edition.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/03/23/drugs.report.ap/index.html

[quoteffdfda182d="CNN.com"][bffdfda182d]Alcohol, tobacco among worst drugs[/bffdfda182d][/sizeffdfda182d]

[bffdfda182d]LONDON, England[/bffdfda182d] (AP) -- Alcohol and tobacco are more dangerous than illegal drugs like marijuana or ecstasy, according to a new British study.

In research published Friday in The Lancet magazine, Professor David Nutt of Britain's Bristol University and colleagues proposed a new framework for the classification of harmful substances, based on the actual risks posed to society.

Their ranking listed alcohol and tobacco among the top 10 most dangerous substances.

Nutt and colleagues used three factors to determine the harm associated with any drug the physical harm to the user, the drug's potential for addiction, and the impact on society of drug use.

The researchers asked two groups of experts -- psychiatrists specializing in addiction and legal or police officials with scientific or medical expertise -- to assign scores to 20 different drugs, including heroin, cocaine, ecstasy, amphetamines, and LSD.

Nutt and his colleagues then calculated the drugs' overall rankings. In the end, the experts agreed with each other -- but not with the existing British classification of dangerous substances.

Heroin and cocaine were ranked most dangerous, followed by barbiturates and street methadone. Alcohol was the fifth-most harmful drug and tobacco the ninth most harmful. Cannabis came in 11th, and near the bottom of the list was ecstasy.

According to existing British and U.S. drug policy, alcohol and tobacco are legal, while cannabis and ecstasy are both illegal. Previous reports, including a study from a parliamentary committee last year, have questioned the scientific rationale for Britain's drug classification system.

"The current drug system is ill thought-out and arbitrary," said Nutt, referring to the United Kingdom's practice of assigning drugs to three distinct divisions, ostensibly based on the drugs' potential for harm. "The exclusion of alcohol and tobacco from the Misuse of Drugs Act is, from a scientific perspective, arbitrary," write Nutt and his colleagues in The Lancet.

Tobacco causes 40 percent of all hospital illnesses, while alcohol is blamed for more than half of all visits to hospital emergency rooms. The substances also harm society in other ways, damaging families and occupying police services.

Nutt hopes that the research will provoke debate within the UK and beyond about how drugs -- including socially acceptable drugs such as alcohol -- should be regulated. While different countries use different markers to classify dangerous drugs, none use a system like the one proposed by Nutt's study, which he hopes could serve as a framework for international authorities.

"This is a landmark paper," said Dr. Leslie Iversen, professor of pharmacology at Oxford University. Iversen was not connected to the research. "It is the first real step towards an evidence-based classification of drugs." He added that based on the paper's results, alcohol and tobacco could not reasonably be excluded.

"The rankings also suggest the need for better regulation of the more harmful drugs that are currently legal, i.e. tobacco and alcohol," wrote Wayne Hall, of the University of Queensland in Brisbane, Australia, in an accompanying Lancet commentary. Hall was not involved with Nutt's paper.

While experts agreed that criminalizing alcohol and tobacco would be challenging, they said that governments should review the penalties imposed for drug abuse and try to make them more reflective of the actual risks and damages involved.

Nutt called for more education so that people were aware of the risks of various drugs. "All drugs are dangerous," he said. "Even the ones people know and love and use every day."[/quoteffdfda182d]

[quoteabd804e1e1="good2speed"]
now try to understand why this will never be legalized. Suppose it was up for legislation and the US senate committee on the use of psychedelic drugs commisioned you to this session and asked you the same simple question I asked you. ( What did you specifically gain/learn from psychs that lead you to believe they should be legalized?)

Now lets analyze your response

[iabd804e1e1][babd804e1e1]I guess[/babd804e1e1] you could say that our spiritual being is the true being and our mind, our consciousness, our perception of reality is the creation of higher forces[/iabd804e1e1] [/colorabd804e1e1]

whatever that means. For gods sake I'm a Senator son what does that even mean. And I asked specific not a[iabd804e1e1] I guess [/iabd804e1e1].

[iabd804e1e1]I am doing better in school and have increased my relationships with my friends and family. [/iabd804e1e1] [/colorabd804e1e1]

thats very good to know but the real question may lie in why you weren't good in school earlier and why you may have had poor relationships with family and friends. Are you suggesting that psychs are a remedy to any poor school performance and/or domestic issues? All in all not convincing enough and there is no evidence to suggest the use of psychs will increase one's interest in his/her studies.

[iabd804e1e1]Also, I had pretty bad social anxiety due to a few events in my past. Psychedelics have helped me come to terms with that by facing it directly, and, for the most part, I think i've almost healed those scars.[/iabd804e1e1] [/colorabd804e1e1]

another good thing to know that you overcame anxiety issues. People who use psychs however are susceptible to severe paranoia which may lead to increased anxiety in a user. Once again your point is inconclusive as there is no evidence to suggest that all users of psychs overcame severe anxiety issues.

[iabd804e1e1]
I guess thats a decent way of putting it... like I said, many times, its very hard to explain and pinpoint exactly what the process is.[/iabd804e1e1][/colorabd804e1e1]

it was a pretty simple straight forward question. NOT a time to guess be more specific. If you cant pinpoint it then how are you going to convince the committee to rule in your favor?

[iabd804e1e1]Like I said, I don't really have that much first-hand experience[/iabd804e1e1]
[/colorabd804e1e1]
Wait you want us to legalize this drug but yourself don't have much experiecne with the drug?[/quoteabd804e1e1]

I never said I was the man to do the job. I was basing my view on facts, scientific studies and the like. With that logic you're saying you can't be for or against something unless you've had tons and tons of first-hand experience in the subject? Someone can't be against child molestation unless they've been molested themselves? Someone can't be for the war in Iraq unless they've been in Iraq themselves?

Arguments should be about facts, not personal opinions with the experience or lack thereof one has been through.

All I'm saying is they could hold a place in society. I'm not for the 100% legalization of them, obviously there should be restrictions. Just making them illegal doesn't really do much good... they're still out there and the govt is still prohibiting 98% of scientific studies if they weren't a scheduled drug. They have a lot of potential and the government and science are just turning their heads.

[quote730bd8e944="JUNIOR6886"]I think its highly immoral and wrong.... Since true conservatisim is all but dead im sure most will see this as me being a wet blanket or something roll Although i think its wrong i can tolorate other people doing it as long as they dont do it near me D[/quote730bd8e944]

looking back I was wrong.... I think its immoral when people ABUSE marijuana. Ex driving while high or operating a crane or doing it every fucking day. Like most indulgences.... I dont think its bad if someone uses it sparingly and not in public.

Driving while high = more safe than driving while sober.

No cell phone, no music, and you go EXACTLY the speed limit.

[quote2ce4b3e048="TryinToGetPaid"]Driving while high = more safe than driving while sober.

No cell phone, no music, and you go EXACTLY the speed limit.[/quote2ce4b3e048]


lol ummmm no. Your reaction time when high is much lower than when sober.....

I wouldn't say it's safer, or more dangerous. If you are completely ripped, then it's hard, but if you are just high, it's not hard at all.

yeah it doesn't really mess with you the same way that alcohol does. I mean Ricky Williams got blazed before every game and went out there and was a rushing leader, so it didn't impair his reaction time that bad.

They have found out that talking on a cell phone and being drunk are equally as dangerous. I always wanted them to do a study of driving while high, and how slow people would actually go... I always put cruise on THE speed limit, or I used to anyways...

[quotecb7f246af1="TryinToGetPaid"]They have found out that talking on a cell phone and being drunk are equally as dangerous. I always wanted them to do a study of driving while high, and how slow people would actually go... I always put cruise on THE speed limit, or I used to anyways...[/quotecb7f246af1]

There is this video, done by the Speed Channel, which measured the effects of driving while high... http//www.looptard.com/strange_video_effects_of_marijuana_on_driving.html

LOL! He smiles the whole time. Just like I do...my tell - tale sign of being blitzed.... and thats a very good video.

He is paranoid and he concentrates way more....

[quote780848fbdd="bruman"][quote780848fbdd="TryinToGetPaid"]They have found out that talking on a cell phone and being drunk are equally as dangerous. I always wanted them to do a study of driving while high, and how slow people would actually go... I always put cruise on THE speed limit, or I used to anyways...[/quote780848fbdd]

There is this video, done by the Speed Channel, which measured the effects of driving while high... http//www.looptard.com/strange_video_effects_of_marijuana_on_driving.html[/quote780848fbdd]

at first i was like "wtf, this video is supporting what i said" then i saw the test....... very interesting vid. D Only thing i find wrong with it is we dont know exactly how much he smoked (or did i miss that)
Also note that he said it was more difficult driving. Like aforementioned He only did better was cause he was aware that he was blazed and he was more cautious. I wonder If the average person in the real world reacts this way......

He smoked a spliff, which if that is one person toking on it, I am sure he was pretty high.

"He only did better was cause he was aware that he was blazed and he was more cautious. "

Effects of weed include paranoia. I have thought white vans were police cruisers, so I am always very aware of what I am doing, and what is going on around me. Ask anyone who smokes and has drove, they pay way more attention than if they were sober.

idk... it could go both ways... kuz yes u tend to focus more on things.... BUT you may be focusing TOO hard on small things and not the big picture... I only drove once.. . mostly im too lazy to... but idk bout you guys, but i tend to zone into one little thing... if thats happens when you drive... idk lol .. might get messy... BUT if you dont zone onto little things.... prob ur very alert... PARANOID but alert in public situations like driving in traffic