Ghosts, Spirits, Angels, Demons.....

Right now I am watching "A Haunting" on the Discovery Channel and I know this has been talked about before, and it is one of Foafy's favorite subjects but who here believes in spirits?

Rather let me ask
Do you believe in Ghosts? People who have died and for whatever reason are still here on Earth.

Do you believe in Angels? God's special people who are holy and are for protecting us.

Do you believe in Demons? The inverse of Angels, Satan's army who are here to do nothing but evil.

Personally, I believe in all three. I have never felt, seen, or heard from an angel but I have from the other two. The house I live in now is haunted, by the past owner, or perhaps his son. Nothing major, I have never seen him -- but he does turn off or on lights, sometimes he takes Tupperware from the cabinets and throws them on the floor. Sometimes you get a feeling that someone is around you, just watching you.

My other friend lives in a plantation home that was used to house soldiers in the Civil War era. We have heard someone people knocking on the door, cabinets opening and closing, and people walking around with sounds like boots on.

As far as a demon goes, when I was little -- I used to hear someone whisper my name, all the time. And no one could figure it out, my mom used to asked me who I was yelling at because they would never leave me alone. It happened until I was around 12 years old, when I told the spirit to leave me and my family alone, and it did.

Share your stories here, all welcome.

Let's just say I take on the dreams of the ones who used to live here.

I've never had any of that and I'm glad I haven't.

[quote660d9b4602="J4320"]I've never had any of that and I'm glad I haven't.[/quote660d9b4602]

Same here. Just occasionally I feel like someone is just "there"

If I remember correctly, I am sure TSJ has stories.

i dont believe in that stuff really.















but i still wont watch that stuff on tv late at night all by myself... oops

1. Ghosts
Yes, I have lived in a house with a very unfriendly Ghost, it tried to push me down the stairs more then once. And i have to be careful when i'm hiking near where i live because there is a area that was where soldiers killed group of young indian braves, i'll walk into the area and either start acting really odd...Acording to my friend who was with me, i was walking around in a daze ignoring her and looking for something.
Or i'll know things that i shouldn't know....Like how to translate some of the petroglpys there.
I also have seen and was touched by a old shaman there, i was sitting on a rock and feeling really depressed about the fact i had just put my horse down, then i felt a barely there touch on my left shoulder and looked up to see an old Shaman standing there with a sad look on his face. We just looked at each other a second before he vanished.

2.I'm not sure about angels, but i'm certain about guardians....I have a black panther that shows up right before i'm in danger, like one night i was driving at 2.00am and was beyond the very tired stage, i closed my eyes to blink then heard a loud snarl and looked up in time to see this huge black panther running straight towards my truck....
Needless to say it woke me up. shock Then i relized that i had been falling asleep since my truck was going 70 and i was at the very edge of the road.
I got home and instead of going out to check on the animals like I normally would have done i just went to sleep. In the morning i went out and found where a mountain lion had killed one of my goats then sat there and ate it, if i had gone out like normal i would have supriced it in the middle of dinner.
It's been around other times as well, all right before i could have been badly hurt.

3. Demons......Yes, and i'm not explaining anything more then that, other then the meeting was extremly unpleasant.

when i was little i use to come in and wake my mom up complaining that i couldnt sleep cause my bed would shake. One night they woke up ( cause i was talking ) and came into my room. I was sitting up in bed talking to the end of the bed. My mom asked me who i was talking to and i said " the old man with the hat right there" and pointed to the end of my bed. Needless to say, we moved from there not long after and i was also baptised LOL. My grandmothers place was haunted as well. We would see rocking chair move by itself, cabinets would open and there would be eery feelings too. One time my mom and i cam over to water plants while she was away and the door would not open ( it was unlovcked ) finally it opened and there was a "cloud" or mist kinda that was there by the door for a second and disappeared.

My wife has had an encounter with guardian/angel. When she was younger she had an accident late at night and rolled her car up a hill. She remembers a "lady" helping her from the car, but Once paramedics and other people showed up noone could explain how she got out of the car and noone saw this lady.

And i have some experiences with weird things and also a possession as well. Wont go into much detail here.

Those are some of my experiences.

If you believe in angels you have to believe in demons and vice versa.

Ghosts? I dont know how you can believe in angels and demons and not believe in ghosts.

I believe in all three, I am a Christian and I dont see how believing in ghosts would discredit my beliefs.

I believe in ghosts because I've seen them before (in split seconds of time). In fact, I think there might be a ghost in my house because I've been seeing quick visual jolts now and then.

Angels, I don't believe in Christian angels (as I'm not a Christian), but I believe in forces that protect individuals.

Demons, again not in the Christian sense of the word... but again I believe there are forces that manipulate and deceive individuals.

You should hear this story my friend and his friends experienced. Crazy shit if you ask me.

Even though I've experienced none of the above, I do believe they exist to some extent. Pretty much like my belief in God, I guess.

And I've always been wary of moving because I don't want to end up in a haunted dwelling. oops

Ghosts, yep.
Angels...eh...maybe. Guardians, yep.
Demons...probably not...but there might be.

TTGP, what is that show about? I'm not not mistaken, is it a two hour documentary about this woman's family's experience with the ghost?

There are both friendly and unfriendly ghosts. The unfriendly ones can be vicious and extremely violent, while the friendly ones will either just walk around aimlessly, try to talk to you, or do something and mind their own business.

I've never personally [if55fe56304]seen[/if55fe56304] a ghost. However, I do have feeling sometimes that I'm not alone. Also...one time I closed my eyes when going to sleep, and this huge ghostly head went through my face...it was some scary shit. Okay, I hate talking about shit like this, lol, now I'm hearing noises. P

In any case...if that show is a documentary, then that's some really scary shit. I've seen it on TV (the 2 hour documentary thing), and let me tell you, it changed my views. There was an extremely violent ghost, actually levitated the husband and threw him against the wall, and tried to do other bad things...it tried to hang someone, lichillsli. I have to stop, my body starts to act weird if I talk about this for more than two minutes. O_o

I've got stories, loads of them and all of them real, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to type them out. Again.

Find the last posts you made about them and quote them here. ;)

[quoteba02f2089f="TFOAF"]Ghosts, yep.
Angels...eh...maybe. Guardians, yep.
Demons...probably not...but there might be.

TTGP, what is that show about? I'm not not mistaken, is it a two hour documentary about this woman's family's experience with the ghost?

There are both friendly and unfriendly ghosts. The unfriendly ones can be vicious and extremely violent, while the friendly ones will either just walk around aimlessly, try to talk to you, or do something and mind their own business.

I've never personally [iba02f2089f]seen[/iba02f2089f] a ghost. However, I do have feeling sometimes that I'm not alone. Also...one time I closed my eyes when going to sleep, and this huge ghostly head went through my face...it was some scary shit. Okay, I hate talking about shit like this, lol, now I'm hearing noises. P

In any case...if that show is a documentary, then that's some really scary shit. I've seen it on TV (the 2 hour documentary thing), and let me tell you, it changed my views. There was an extremely violent ghost, actually levitated the husband and threw him against the wall, and tried to do other bad things...it tried to hang someone, lichillsli. I have to stop, my body starts to act weird if I talk about this for more than two minutes. O_o[/quoteba02f2089f]
Lol, you think hearing noises is bad, try staying in a house you don't like, with two chicken shit dogs, by yourself and then hearing noises on the outside and the dogs start growling....Which is why i'm currently still awake at 4.09am.....This started a little before 2 and has yet to stop, whatever the hell it is it stays out of reach of the flash light and the lady i'm house sitting for banned me from firing a gun for any reason....she doesn't even know i have one here.
oh great there it goes again. I think it's just a stray dog....but last time i thought that it turned out to be this harpy looking thing that scared the hell out of me before flying off.
And yes i have a wittness to that one.

i dont know how you cannot believe in ghosts with all the evidence that has been filmed, recorded, experienced, etc over the years... its a weird subject that is pretty much generally assumed in the world to be real, yet still gets grouped in with aliens, loch ness monster, big foot and other paranormal stuff that may or may not exist. it makes you wonder about what death really is like.

So I used to be a counselor for three summers for a bible camp. being a christian i definataly believe in angels and demons. i dont believe in ghosts though. i believe anything you hear or see from ghosts is eaither a message from an angel or a demon trying to trick you. but i have seen things to make me believe in angels and demons. i counclled for this camp and one week was called eagle wing camp and it was where we pull in native american children for free and have them at camp. one night wehn we were haveing a bible study, one of the kids started screaming and then talking in an extremely deep voice. then ran out of the cabin and literally climbed up a tree like a cat and was up it in no time (faster then any person could posibbly do i think) he got down and we had to surround him so he couldnt get away and he screamed yelled, and did the talking. till the paster and all of us prayed around him......after a tiny bit it was over. the kid had no idea what happened.......

No, no and no. It don't make me a bad person, though. ;)

[quotec27ef7d59f="h3x"]I believe in ghosts because I've seen them before (in split seconds of time). In fact, I think there might be a ghost in my house because I've been seeing quick visual jolts now and then.[/quotec27ef7d59f]

I respect your belief in what the cause is, but there are [bc27ef7d59f]many[/bc27ef7d59f] other explanations for visual phenomena.

i believe in it all, and aliens...

As for Big Foot, he's extra scary, because he's a big blurry monster... (mitch hedberg, not a quote, but taken from him...)

Turn on Discovery Channel now to catch "The Haunting"

New stories

In my girlfriend's old house -- she bought this house from a guy who had recently finished building it. He was building it for his wife, who passed away before the house was done. We used to always see a flash of light in the garage, like someone had taken a picture with the flash on. Multiple people have seen it at one time, so I know it was not just me or my girlfriend's eyes playing a trick on it, and we never told anyone before hand to rule out people claiming they saw it, just to see it.

Current house -- We have a ghost who likes to clank our liquor bottles on top of the refrigerator together. I have moved the bottles around the top of the fridge so the labels are facing outward, and are spread apart. I come home and the bottles and close to eachother with the labels not facing outward. The most compelling story is we were watching TV, at Xmas time and our tree was inbetween our fridge and the couch we were sitting on, and all the sudden we hear this tapping noise. But it was coming from inside the house, and not next door so my girlfriend looked and she saw the Crown Royal bottle tipping from side to side. (As if you were holding the top and picking it up on one side and then going back to the other repeadtly) When I looked, the bottle was still but the liquid was sloshing around and it was the only bottle to have moved.

I see flashes of light, I get goose bumps, I think sometimes I see someone standing in the doorway of the bedroom, just peeping out at me, and you get that feeling that someone is watching you.

Another short story at my mom's house. They have an older (think 1920s) house, in which a small boy died and the street the house is on, is named after the little boy. The first day we ever checked out the house, the doors upstairs slammed closed and the lights cut on for no reason, so we knew we had something going on from day one. Anyways, we come home and in the living room is a old school chandelier with individual crystals that you can take off. We come home, and 10 of the crystals are off of the chandelier and laid out neatly on the couch, no one had been home and if anyone was, they would have to get out a step ladder to reach it. I have more stories but the post is running over as is, so I am cutting myself off here.

And by the way at my house, I am going to set up a camera on the bottles, just to see if I can capture anything.

[quote8c2db35689="theysayjump"]I've got stories, loads of them and all of them real, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to type them out. Again.[/quote8c2db35689]

Just copy and paste )

I watch Charmed, it's all real! I'M A DARK LIGHTER, fear me!!

so..

I can't be the only person who thinks all these stories are ridiculous.

[quote0f7bbf8c13="zdub08"]so..

I can't be the only person who thinks all these stories are ridiculous.[/quote0f7bbf8c13]

I'm right behind ye. These stories come from fabricated BS, psychological problems, pranks, and people trying to get attention. But maybe - just maybe, some small amount of them could be some phenomena beyond our comprehension that we cannot yet scientifically analyze. Man-made demons and and spirits from hell, I think not.

Meh, believe what you want - I guess if it happened to you it probably would change your mind. I hope I catch something on camera to show everyone....or have everyone shout 1 thousand things that it COULD be instead of something supernatural.

Our house seems to have all kinds of electrical problems which creates some strange incidences. My mom has this touch lamp sitting next to her bed with 3 brightness levels. It's usually at a different brightness every time you enter the room even though no one had been home shrug

[quote07d78f50fc="TryinToGetPaid"]Meh, believe what you want - I guess if it happened to you it probably would change your mind. I hope I catch something on camera to show everyone....or have everyone shout 1 thousand things that it COULD be instead of something supernatural.[/quote07d78f50fc]

See that's the hard part. I know you wouldn't just make this stuff up for attention and I know (kind of lol) that you're not psychologically ill. It's hard to draw the line between fact and fiction when it comes to this stuff. I believe that you saw all of that but I just don't know if it can all account to something supernatural. If I ever visit Louisiana, let me stay over at your house for a night (or a few nights). D

Yeah and honestly before we moved into my moms house I didn't believe in spirits of any kind. When the doors slammed and lights turned on when we first walked through my moms house, it could have been a number of things especially since it is a really old house. Then one day when my mom opened the cabinet, went to grab a plate and another cabinet opened and Tupperware flew towards her, it kinds changed my perspective on things.

And no, I wouldn't lie on FiPG to attract attention to myself, and I'm not a basket case either.

I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so, but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts

[quote91306589a9="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [b91306589a9]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/b91306589a9], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quote91306589a9]
good reasoning

[quoteb312f1a81e="zdub08"][quoteb312f1a81e="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [bb312f1a81e]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/bb312f1a81e], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quoteb312f1a81e]
good reasoning[/quoteb312f1a81e]

Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible? Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts.

[quote16f409e5d6="zdub08"][quote16f409e5d6="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [b16f409e5d6]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/b16f409e5d6], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quote16f409e5d6]
good reasoning[/quote16f409e5d6]

lol


[quote16f409e5d6="TryinToGetPaid"]Yeah and honestly before we moved into my moms house I didn't believe in spirits of any kind. When the doors slammed and lights turned on when we first walked through my moms house, it could have been a number of things especially since it is a really old house. Then one day when my mom opened the cabinet, went to grab a plate and another cabinet opened and Tupperware flew towards her, it kinds changed my perspective on things.

And no, I wouldn't lie on FiPG to attract attention to myself, and I'm not a basket case either.[/quote16f409e5d6]

It's aliens with nothing to do. P

What's strange is the widespread talk of spiritual intervention and all of that jazz but none of it has really been scientifically documented. Sneaky little "ghosts." What I believe right now is that some of these things have really happened but I don't think that it has anything to do with spirits/demons and etc. Many times the mind really does see what it wants to see. Again, I'm not saying that you (TTGP) are crazy and your girlfriend is too, but yeah... I really don't know what to say about your experiences.

[quotec7b4a60d1c="J4320"]

It's aliens with nothing to do. P

What's strange is the widespread talk of spiritual intervention and all of that jazz but none of it has really been scientifically documented. Sneaky little "ghosts." What I believe right now is that some of these things have really happened but I don't think that it has anything to do with spirits/demons and etc. Many times the mind really does see what it wants to see. Again, I'm not saying that you (TTGP) are crazy and your girlfriend is too, but yeah... I really don't know what to say about your experiences.[/quotec7b4a60d1c]

I believe that too. I believe many "Ghostly Encounters" are your mind playing tricks on you. But for the severe stuff and things where people can see the past or what not, I believe its Demons they are talking to.

[quote35a78d478b="CollidgeGraduit"][quote35a78d478b="zdub08"][quote35a78d478b="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [b35a78d478b]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/b35a78d478b], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quote35a78d478b]
good reasoning[/quote35a78d478b]

[b35a78d478b]Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible?[/b35a78d478b] Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts.[/quote35a78d478b]
is that a joke?

I'm guessing you mean "why isn't this reasoning any worse than others?" ...it's worse because it requires the same leap of faith that believing anything in the bible requires. experience, or evidence of experience, I guess, would really be the best (only) way to prove ghosts exists. I don't think we'll ever have that, however, considering ghosts are mysteriously camera-shy.



...and I bet there are hundreds of scientific attempts at explaining ghosts, angels, demons, etc. (that make a lot more sense than the bible's assertions)

[quote264ba0c381="zdub08"][quote264ba0c381="CollidgeGraduit"][quote264ba0c381="zdub08"][quote264ba0c381="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [b264ba0c381]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/b264ba0c381], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quote264ba0c381]
good reasoning[/quote264ba0c381]

[b264ba0c381]Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible?[/b264ba0c381] Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts.[/quote264ba0c381]
is that a joke?

I'm guessing you mean "why isn't this reasoning any worse than others?" ...it's worse because it requires the same leap of faith that believing anything in the bible requires. experience, or evidence of experience, I guess, would really be the best (only) way to prove ghosts exists. I don't think we'll ever have that, however, considering ghosts are mysteriously camera-shy.



...and I bet there are hundreds of scientific attempts at explaining ghosts, angels, demons, etc.[/quote264ba0c381]

It's worse because it requires the [b264ba0c381]same[/b264ba0c381] leap of faith? If it requires the same amount of faith, why would it be worse? If it requires the same amount of faith to accept the Biblical view, wouldn't it be "just as bad"?

There were also hundreds of scientific attempts at proving the world was flat, and the heliocentric theory.

I've got no problem with you not believing a certain theory, but I think it's silly to bash it when there's nothing else to prove otherwise.

[quotea66360e00e="zdub08"][quotea66360e00e="CollidgeGraduit"][quotea66360e00e="zdub08"][quotea66360e00e="phriq"]I believe in Heaven and Hell and I believe there is a spiritual war with Angels and Demons around us. However, I do not believe in Ghosts or humanly spirits. I believe that the Devil has ways of manipulating humans. I believe that when ghost hunters or ghost mediums talk to or experience those events, its not that they are talking to ghosts, but in fact talking to minions of the devil. [ba66360e00e]I believe you can have Angelic or Demonic encounters because the bible states so[/ba66360e00e], but I don't believe that you can have ghostly encouters becuase i do not believe in ghosts[/quotea66360e00e]
good reasoning[/quotea66360e00e]

[ba66360e00e]Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible?[/ba66360e00e] Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts.[/quotea66360e00e]
is that a joke?

I'm guessing you mean "why isn't this reasoning any worse than others?" ...it's worse because it requires the same leap of faith that believing anything in the bible requires. experience, or evidence of experience, I guess, would really be the best (only) way to prove ghosts exists. I don't think we'll ever have that, however, considering ghosts are mysteriously camera-shy.



...and I bet there are hundreds of scientific attempts at explaining ghosts, angels, demons, etc. (that make a lot more sense than the bible's assertions)[/quotea66360e00e]

The scientific attempts at explaining ghosts are your mind playing tricks on you. The Bible provides the same leap of faith as do believing in ghosts. "I've seen them tho!!" So what? There's been a time when we've all "seen" something and it's our mind. Ghosts are nothing more than mind games thus why they are "mysteriously" camera-shy.

I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or against me, but I think you basically said the same thing I did.

[quote465c9ac6c7="zdub08"]I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or against me, but I think you basically said the same thing I did.[/quote465c9ac6c7]

I may have misunderstood your "good reasoning" comment then.... was it sarcasm or serious?

[quotedcafd4e18e="CollidgeGraduit"][quotedcafd4e18e="zdub08"]I'm not sure if you're arguing with me or against me, but I think you basically said the same thing I did.[/quotedcafd4e18e]

I may have misunderstood your "good reasoning" comment then.... was it sarcasm or serious?[/quotedcafd4e18e]

lol. we'll never know.

and zdub I was arguing against what you said. The Bible is just as fine reasoning as any other as CG said.

i bought this house and i think the reason i got it so cheap is because it is haunted... I think by children, mainly because there is all this weird childish writing on the walls in my basement that reaches up to the ceiling, a place a child can't reach. Really weird strange stuff too... But I have seen some of the strangest stuff happen in my house... I don't care to type them, cuz they're long stories, but seriously man, some weird stuff has gone down in here )

edit this was supposed to be playing along with the posts on the last page, but now it just looks like I'm being a jerk to the guy above me... but I'm not.

what the hell does he mean?

liShrugli

I'll clarify -

CG said

"Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible? Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts."

Let me just say this as clearly as possible --

Just because we don't have any scientifically credible books doesn't mean that we should lean on the Bible for our understanding when it comes to science and evidence. Personally, I think remaining inquisitive and unsure until further investigation is the best route to go with as far as reasoning goes. The Bible is faith based and is not a valid source of reasoning. Therefore, zdub pretty much said that using the Bible to reason is the same as simply believing that ghosts and demons exist. However, simply believing does work in science.

[quote863fffa2f4="J4320"]I'll clarify -

CG said

"Why isn't it good reasoning that he's basing it on what he read in the Bible? Maybe you don't believe in the Bible, but it's not like there's any scientifically credible books on angels or ghosts."

Let me just say this as clearly as possible --

Just because we don't have any scientifically credible books doesn't mean that we should lean on the Bible for our understanding when it comes to science and evidence. Personally, I think remaining inquisitive and unsure until further investigation is the best route to go with as far as reasoning goes. The Bible is faith based and is not a valid source of reasoning. Therefore, zdub pretty much said that using the Bible to reason is the same as simply believing that ghosts and demons exist. However, simply believing does work in science.[/quote863fffa2f4]

I agree, it doesn't mean you should lean on the Bible for your understanding. That's up to each individual. My point was just that I didn't see anything wrong with him relying on the Bible here.

My turn for telling a story. I have multiple but Ill do the most recent one.

Now I'm playing my PS3, its like like 130 in the morning. There is this small fake plant next to me. All of the sudden a branch of it starts jumping twice. Like its waving to me. Like the branch went up down up down really fast, two times. Scared me.

[quotec2857c5fa1="YourGiftsFree"]My turn for telling a story. I have multiple but Ill do the most recent one.

Now I'm playing my PS3, its like like 130 in the morning. There is this small fake plant next to me. All of the sudden a branch of it starts jumping twice. Like its waving to me. Like the branch went up down up down really fast, two times. Scared me.[/quotec2857c5fa1]

Lay off the acid, son.

[quote4a52e420d9="EatChex89"][quote4a52e420d9="YourGiftsFree"]My turn for telling a story. I have multiple but Ill do the most recent one.

Now I'm playing my PS3, its like like 130 in the morning. There is this small fake plant next to me. All of the sudden a branch of it starts jumping twice. Like its waving to me. Like the branch went up down up down really fast, two times. Scared me.[/quote4a52e420d9]

Lay off the acid, son.[/quote4a52e420d9]

oops No but seriously, it happened.

[quoteaccabeb7eb="bruman"][quoteaccabeb7eb="theysayjump"]I've got stories, loads of them and all of them real, but I'm not sure if I can be bothered to type them out. Again.[/quoteaccabeb7eb]

Just copy and paste )[/quoteaccabeb7eb]

;)

[quoteaccabeb7eb="theysayjump"]ive got some stories........fucked up ones too.

i used to be a skeptic but when i came over here and lived with my wife for a little bit, the house she lived in was haunted. she would tell me about stuff that she had seen and heard but i thought it was all shite.

she said she would see shadows and black cats in the basement and someone telling her to shut the basement door and stuff like that, but i thought she was making it up or just thinking she saw something when it could be easily explainable.

so one night we were sleeping and it was about maybe 3am, i got this tap on the shoulder so i turned over and looked at my wife and she gave me this cassette tape. so i said thanks, ill put it next to the bed ( i was half asleep). so the next day we were in the kitchen downstairs and i remembered about it and asked her why she gave me a tape. she had no idea what i was talking about so i told her, and she was adament that she didnt give me a tape.

so i said, "if there is a tape upstairs at the side of the bed, then there is something fucked up going on". so we went upstairs and there was a tape sitting next to the bed. the thing that made it weird was the fact that i started to remember stuff during the day. i remember that when i turned over, although i thought it was my wife, i remember looking up and there was a man standing at the side of the bed, handing the tape to me, with someone behind him looking over his shoulder.

the tape that was handed to me was a tape that i didnt even know existed. i made a tape for my wife when i 1st met her (we met online so i would send her things from scotland) but i just assumed that she didnt have it anymore or lost it. apparently my wife kept it behind the stereo so that nothing would happen to it and she would know where it was. my mum told me that i used to sleepwalk when i was younger, but that was when i was young, and i didnt even know where the tape was. that was the 1st thing that happened to me.

another time, we were sleeping and i woke up and looked across to the other side of the room and i saw an old man standing there. i was frozen, and i tried waking my wife and calling for her, and screaming but nothing came out. he was just standing there, with a white shirt, brown trousers, he was bald and had a plaque above his head on the wall. it said "brown" and it was a brown plaque with gold trim.

the next day i told my wife and her mum, and she asked me if i saw "this" man and was told to look at the picture on the wall. it was a picture frame of all different people in my wifes family, and the man i saw was on of the people, dressed exactly the same way as i had seen him. it was my wifes grandad who had been murdered before my wife was even born, but i had never seen him before. also in the centre of the town where he used to live, there is a plaque with his name on it because he was a WW2 vet, and the plaque is exactly the same way as i saw it. the place in the room that i saw him, was right next to a closet that had his WW2 uniform in it. whenever we moved the uniform from the closet, shit used to happen, so even though we have now moved house, we made sure that it came with us.

there is quite alot of other stuff that has happened to my wife, myself and my wifes family, but there are too many to post here. needless to say im not a skeptic anymore.[/quoteaccabeb7eb]

[quote9c44ed3d3a="EatChex89"]
and zdub I was arguing against what you said. The Bible is just as fine reasoning as any other as CG said.[/quote9c44ed3d3a]

I agree. I believe the bible but even if you dont The bible was documented a thousands of years ago, who is to say that things described in there were not witnessed. Just say it was not a religious book. People still use it for the historical accuracy.

[quotecc6b5571c2="phriq"][quotecc6b5571c2="EatChex89"]
and zdub I was arguing against what you said. The Bible is just as fine reasoning as any other as CG said.[/quotecc6b5571c2]

I agree. I believe the bible but even if you dont The bible was documented a thousands of years ago, who is to say that things described in there were not witnessed. Just say it was not a religious book. [bcc6b5571c2]People still use it for the historical accuracy.[/bcc6b5571c2][/quotecc6b5571c2]

This claim is way overused and it only goes so far. And no, the Bible is not just as fine reasoning as any other.

[quotef0850cdb92="J4320"]

This claim is way overused and it only goes so far. [bf0850cdb92]And no, the Bible is not just as fine reasoning as any other[/bf0850cdb92].[/quotef0850cdb92]

Can you elaborate as to why it is not as fine of reasoning as any other? I think it's obsurd to say so. Even from a non christian standpoint. Looking at most books that study the occult, (which is technically another religion) those count valid by most, so why not the bible? or even going strickly off of scientific evidance, all they have found are possible signs yet never any causes. I think this is a discussion that will go on till the end of times when some thing happens to prove one side right.

[quote64744225db="J4320"][quote64744225db="phriq"][quote64744225db="EatChex89"]
and zdub I was arguing against what you said. The Bible is just as fine reasoning as any other as CG said.[/quote64744225db]

I agree. I believe the bible but even if you dont The bible was documented a thousands of years ago, who is to say that things described in there were not witnessed. Just say it was not a religious book. [b64744225db]People still use it for the historical accuracy.[/b64744225db][/quote64744225db]

This claim is way overused and it only goes so far. And no, the Bible is not just as fine reasoning as any other.[/quote64744225db]

So what's good reasoning, then? You're saying the Bible can't be believed on the topic of angels in demons. Instead, we should believe in explanations that haven't been given yet, or if they have, they haven't been close to proven. Like Phriq said, what makes other books on the subject more reliable to lean on as a source of truth?

[quoteb9dc94117f="phriq"][quoteb9dc94117f="J4320"]

This claim is way overused and it only goes so far. [bb9dc94117f]And no, the Bible is not just as fine reasoning as any other[/bb9dc94117f].[/quoteb9dc94117f]

Can you elaborate as to why it is not as fine of reasoning as any other?[/quoteb9dc94117f]

Sure, the Bible is not as fine of reasoning than science's reasoning. That was difficult.

[quoteb9dc94117f]Even from a non christian standpoint. Looking at most books that study the occult, (which is technically another religion) those count valid by most, so why not the bible?[/quoteb9dc94117f]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. Sure, the Bible and the Koran both have accurate historical references and we can learn things from what has been written in there. However, there is a line to draw. Anyway, you'll have to clarify what you mean. "Most books that study the occult are counted valid, so why not the Bible?" Valid in what area?

[quoteb9dc94117f] or even going strickly off of scientific evidance, all they have found are possible signs yet never any causes. I think this is a discussion that will go on till the end of times when some thing happens to prove one side right.[/quoteb9dc94117f]

I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Signs yet never any causes? You're coming off as a little cryptic there lol. Care to clarify? I'm not trying be rude, I'm just trying to understand exactly what you mean so I don't misunderstand you. )

[quoteb9dc94117f="CollidgeGraduit"][quoteb9dc94117f="J4320"][quoteb9dc94117f="phriq"][quoteb9dc94117f="EatChex89"]
and zdub I was arguing against what you said. The Bible is just as fine reasoning as any other as CG said.[/quoteb9dc94117f]

I agree. I believe the bible but even if you dont The bible was documented a thousands of years ago, who is to say that things described in there were not witnessed. Just say it was not a religious book. [bb9dc94117f]People still use it for the historical accuracy.[/bb9dc94117f][/quoteb9dc94117f]

This claim is way overused and it only goes so far. And no, the Bible is not just as fine reasoning as any other.[/quoteb9dc94117f]

So what's good reasoning, then? You're saying the Bible can't be believed on the topic of angels in demons. Instead, we should believe in explanations that haven't been given yet, or if they have, they haven't been close to proven. Like Phriq said, what makes other books on the subject more reliable to lean on as a source of truth?[/quoteb9dc94117f]

All I meant was that the Bible's explanation on paranormal phenomena is based on superstition and it should not be taken as a source of validity. I'd rather remain inquisitive and open to many things while research continues rather than just blindly believing what the Bible says. Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean we should take a guess and use that to explain what we don't know. Of course it wouldn't be right to completely throw out the whole idea of angels and demons from the Bible until it is proven false but with our current knowledge and reasoning we can make a rational decision to realize that the idea of angels and demons is very far-fetched.

Anyway, it's not rational to think that just because we don't have the answer to something, we should cling on to some book that isn't justified by reason or evidence - the very thing that facts are built upon. I'm not trying to bash the Bible here either; it's full of great morals and good lessons, but using a very very old religious book with unicorns and magic men to explain our current unknowns doesn't work for me.

We're in the year 2007. Let's act like educated rational people. Recently, my parent's friend had schizophrenic meltdown where he went completely psychotic and told his wife he was going to kill her and he took his children to a lake at night because he was on a top secret mission. The cops came and he was screaming at them and he threw his baby at them. This guy needs psychological help. One day I was on my mom's laptop and in the recent searches on Google I saw "spiritual warfare counseling" in the search. I knew it had to do with this situation because my mom mentioned to me before that he needed it. Does that strike anyone as completely insane? That guy does not need a "spiritual warfare counselor." He needs a psychologist. Some people are too dependant on their crazy beliefs to get themselves or others help. 1/2 of the people in America don't even believe in evolution because they're faith base belief makes them think otherwise. I want our world to exceed in knowledge and power, not decline into the murky depths of superstition. Anyway, I just think that believing in imaginary things makes us do irrational things. I wish we could all just learn that the Bible has great morals and etc. but we shouldn't take it as a factual reference for our lives.

I don't want to sound condescending either; it just makes me sad that we have developed so much over this century, yet we still can't get ourselves over the most basic things.

[quoteb1914af24e="J4320"]
I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Signs yet never any causes? You're coming off as a little cryptic there lol. Care to clarify? I'm not trying be rude, I'm just trying to understand exactly what you mean so I don't misunderstand you. )

[/quoteb1914af24e]

No problems man. Its all in good discussion. All I meant by that is that no matter how long you study something like this, all you "can" study are the signs and I personally believe that we will never find the true causes. Its like trying to explain gravity, you cas study the signs and effects of it, but we have no idea what causes it. All I meant by the end times is that the world (or humans) will most likely die off at some point (probablty not our lifetimes, but you know....all i meant is that i dont believe we will truely know the answer to things like this until it is to late. If God come here, then it proves christians right and non christians wrong. If we kill ourselves with nukes or something wierd like that, then it kinda discredits accounts of christianity.....all in all i guess all that I mean is that we will never know unless somehting huge happens to prove one side right or wrong...(sorry if that sounded cryptic.)

[quote9e1ee24940="phriq"][quote9e1ee24940="J4320"]
I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Signs yet never any causes? You're coming off as a little cryptic there lol. Care to clarify? I'm not trying be rude, I'm just trying to understand exactly what you mean so I don't misunderstand you. )

[/quote9e1ee24940]

No problems man. Its all in good discussion. All I meant by that is that no matter how long you study something like this, all you "can" study are the signs and I personally believe that we will never find the true causes. Its like trying to explain gravity, you cas study the signs and effects of it, but we have no idea what causes it. All I meant by the end times is that the world (or humans) will most likely die off at some point (probablty not our lifetimes, but you know....all i meant is that i dont believe we will truely know the answer to things like this until it is to late. If God come here, then it proves christians right and non christians wrong. If we kill ourselves with nukes or something wierd like that, then it kinda discredits accounts of christianity.....all in all i guess all that I mean is that we will never know unless somehting huge happens to prove one side right or wrong...(sorry if that sounded cryptic.)[/quote9e1ee24940]


Thats pretty scary to think about. Would we want "something huge" to happen? How different would the world be if it did happen? Would the world be a better or worse place. If it did happen that would mean that so many people fought and died for the wrong reasons, because one side would have to be wrong and one side would have to be right. I think it is just scary to think about it. The unknown is what drives everyone. If we knew the answer to everything what would we do next?

[quoteb8cee34db0="kelbypayday"]

Thats pretty scary to think about. Would we want "something huge" to happen? How different would the world be if it did happen? Would the world be a better or worse place. If it did happen that would mean that so many people fought and died for the wrong reasons, because one side would have to be wrong and one side would have to be right. I think it is just scary to think about it. The unknown is what drives everyone. If we knew the answer to everything what would we do next?[/quoteb8cee34db0]

Very True. I am not saying I want that to happen. I am just saying that in the event of somehting like that, i think thats the only way we will truely "know"...It's wierd how humans always try to figure out things that almost should just not be figured out.

"curiousity killed the cat" lol.

Thats why I love these discussions though. They make you think so much.....Everyone should check out the movie "What the Bleep do we know"....that will make you just stop and say "Wow, were kinda dumb" lol.

[quote97c4f79511="phriq"]"curiousity killed the cat" lol. [/quote97c4f79511]

Exactly. Thats what I was thinking. I am not saying that people should stop looking though because thats just what we do. We are naturally curious. But sooner or later we are going to dig too deep.

I will have to check that movie out. I'm sure there are a lot of things we do not know about.

[quote0a8c51387f="J4320"][clipped shit. . ]We're in the year 2007. Let's act like educated rational people. [more clipped shit. . ][/quote0a8c51387f]

i'm in 2008 shrug

LOL WOOPS

HAHA

LMAO

LOL LOSER

LMFAO

I agree with some of the other posts, although I did not read them all in their entirety. I am a Christian, so I believe in Heaven, therefore, I also believe in Hell. Which also means that I believe in angels AND demons. There is so much more going on in the spiritual realm than in the physical realm that it would freak us out if we could actually see it. As Christians, we know it though. Spiritual warfare is as real to me as knowing that I'm typing this right now, even though I cannot physically see it.

When you become a Christian, the Holy Spirit dwells within you and, therefore, you have a sense of those things that are spiritual. I won't go into all of the details of being filled with the Holy Spirit because then that will invoke the discussion of speaking in tongues, etc. and that's not what is being asked here.

So, yes, I believe in all of the above. Which means I definitely believe in evil, which is what I believe the majority of ghostly encounters are. Basically, anything that will invoke fear in someone is pretty much demonic (and no I'm not talking about mice or spiders, so don't go off on that tangent). On the same token, it could be angelic encounters, depending upon the situation.

I have seen evil at work in my own family and we had to do some serious battle to get everything back to the way it's supposed to be. I won't go into detail about that, but it didn't happen overnight. It took many people standing with us. Satan is here to steal, kill and destroy. He and his demons destroy families everyday and if a person is not careful, he will succeed.

I also believe that evil can be in your home. I know that after a family member lived in our basement there was just a very bad vibe. He left on bad terms because of abusing prescription pills, looking at porn on the internet, extreme foul language, anger, etc. (we made him leave). He definitely opened many doors to allow the enemy into our home. Once he left, we had our house cleansed (some may laugh), but immediately the heavy feeling was lifted, the air felt lighter, the kids slept better. It's a feeling that is almost indescribable, a person really needs to experience it to understand. (So if anyone has had similar experiences, please share). There was this amazing feeling of serenity again, which hadn't been here in a while. I couldn't believe that it would make such a huge difference. Now, I'm a firm believer in doing that.

Evil can come in through many avenues so we all need to go to battle everyday for our children, family members, etc. because it will prey upon weakness.

Michelle

[bcdf7834803]J4320 wrote[/bcdf7834803]

[quotecdf7834803] [bcdf7834803]Anyway, I just think that believing in imaginary things makes us do irrational things. [/bcdf7834803]I wish we could all just learn that the Bible has great morals and etc. but we shouldn't take it as a factual reference for our lives.

I don't want to sound condescending either; it just makes me sad that we have developed so much over this century, yet we still can't get ourselves over the most basic things.[/quotecdf7834803]


I missed this one the first time around. What exactly is imaginary? If you can't see it, touch it, smell it or taste it is it imaginary? Science, technology, space exploration, (on and on) would never have gone anywhere if noone imagined it first. Is there a difference between the "unknown", "unproven", and "imaginary"? Can you clarify for me?

Thanks,
Michelle

[quotec143d799ab="phriq"]Everyone should check out the movie "What the Bleep do we know"....that will make you just stop and say "Wow, were kinda dumb" lol.[/quotec143d799ab]
I'm sorry but this movie is utter garbage and most things like it are propaganda of some kind for cults/sects.
http//dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index.html[]http//dir.salon.com/story/ent/feature/2004/09/16/bleep/index.html
http//skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.html[]http//skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2005/04/what_the_bleep_.html

In the first 5-10 minutes, some random lady is presented like she is an expert of some kind, and she says the indigenous people (in the Indies I presume) did not see Columbus' boat even when it was right in front of them because it's nothing they'd seen before, and therefore out of their 'reality.' Please.

and OMGROFLMAOBBQ@J4320

[quotee890f70de4="michelle-kcmo"][be890f70de4]J4320 wrote[/be890f70de4]

[quotee890f70de4] [be890f70de4]Anyway, I just think that believing in imaginary things makes us do irrational things. [/be890f70de4]I wish we could all just learn that the Bible has great morals and etc. but we shouldn't take it as a factual reference for our lives.

I don't want to sound condescending either; it just makes me sad that we have developed so much over this century, yet we still can't get ourselves over the most basic things.[/quotee890f70de4]


I missed this one the first time around. What exactly is imaginary? If you can't see it, touch it, smell it or taste it is it imaginary? Science, technology, space exploration, (on and on) would never have gone anywhere if noone imagined it first. Is there a difference between the "unknown", "unproven", and "imaginary"? Can you clarify for me?

Thanks,
Michelle[/quotee890f70de4]

What I meant when I said imaginary was "made up." Nothing more. If you can't see it, touch it, or smell it, it isn't always imaginary. Take gravity for example.

[quotee890f70de4]Science, technology, space exploration, (on and on) would never have gone anywhere if noone imagined it first. [/quotee890f70de4]

Sure, we advance our technology through inquiry and the scientific method. There is nothing wrong with imagining success and advancement. Of course, that's not what we are even talking about here. Imagination is a wonderful thing when it's used logically.

My point was that if you can "imagine" then obviously you can have faith and agree with the beliefs of Christianity (if you so choose).

My favorite definition of faith is a quote from Phillip Yancey, "Faith is believing in advance what will only make sense in reverse."

In the book of Ecclesiastes, I think it basically says that the only meaning that he found in life is that we are unable to comprehend the meaning of life because it is not for us to understand, even if we ponder it for a lifetime.

I just think that basically saying faith in God, Heaven, Hell, Angels, Demons, whatever is all "made up" is a bit harsh.

Noone can prove that those things don't exist.

Anyway, that's just my own personal opinion because I can't speak for anyone else.

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

--- Benjamin Franklin

The reality is that you're worshiping a god made by man with the mentality of a spoiled rotten child. I'm not trying to insult you personally either, honestly. Any Christian who reads the Bible can plainly see this as I did when I was a Christian for the first 15-16 years of my life. A god who created us to think logically and intelligently burns those who use those gifts?

You're right, the Bible is all about faith instead of knowledge. In fact, the very first story in the Bible is about punishment for those who seek knowledge. So if you decide to follow an empty promise that is supposed to "make sense when you get there," I as a fellow human being strongly urge you to reconsider.

Phriq and kelbypayday, I also strongly urge both of you to look into things even further and let the knowledge guide you. The evidence is there if you look for it. The future isn't needed to "prove" one side wrong. Our current understandings already do enough to make you realize that the Christian/Judaic god is simply the next Thor.

[quote2b42f373e6="J4320"]"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

--- Benjamin Franklin

The reality is that you're worshiping a god made by man with the mentality of a spoiled rotten child. I'm not trying to insult you personally either, honestly. Any Christian who reads the Bible can plainly see this as I did when I was a Christian for the first 15-16 years of my life. A god who created us to think logically and intelligently burns those who use those gifts?

You're right, the Bible is all about faith instead of knowledge. In fact, the very first story in the Bible is about punishment for those who seek knowledge. So if you decide to follow an empty promise that is supposed to "make sense when you get there," I as a fellow human being strongly urge you to reconsider.

Phriq and kelbypayday, I also strongly urge both of you to look into things even further and let the knowledge guide you. The evidence is there if you look for it. The future isn't needed to "prove" one side wrong. Our current understandings already do enough to make you realize that the Christian/Judaic god is simply the next Thor.[/quote2b42f373e6]

The thing is I have researched this,, Not a much the ghost issue, but heaven, hell, and religion. I took many religion courses in college. Not just Christian, but i studied and wnet to islam temples, studied the bahai faith, muslem, buhdism. and the more I study, the more i believe in a solitary true God. The thing is you stated that its a man made god, however, I believe god made man, and man recognized taht and believes in him.. There is no deffinitive scientific proof either way. However, when i see the night sky, when i feel "true love", when i see the animals, or just get a shiver up my back listening to music, then i know,,,,its true. i believe.

[quote476a6ed81f="J4320"]"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

--- Benjamin Franklin

The reality is that you're worshiping a god made by man with the mentality of a spoiled rotten child. I'm not trying to insult you personally either, honestly. Any Christian who reads the Bible can plainly see this as I did when I was a Christian for the first 15-16 years of my life. A god who created us to think logically and intelligently burns those who use those gifts?

You're right, the Bible is all about faith instead of knowledge. In fact, the very first story in the Bible is about punishment for those who seek knowledge. So if you decide to follow an empty promise that is supposed to "make sense when you get there," I as a fellow human being strongly urge you to reconsider.

Phriq and kelbypayday, I also strongly urge both of you to look into things even further and let the knowledge guide you. The evidence is there if you look for it. The future isn't needed to "prove" one side wrong. Our current understandings already do enough to make you realize that the Christian/Judaic god is simply the next Thor.[/quote476a6ed81f]

I honestly do not know what I believe. On some days after reading the news I stop and think to myself that how can I have faith when so many bad things are happening. But then again, just like phriq said, there a little moments in life that feel like you have been uplifted. I never had a supernatural event happen to me of any kid that could not be explained logically. I believe that God, if there is a God, put us on this earth for a reason. He wanted us to use or knowledge and to make ourselves better. I believe the church has lost its way a little bit. But here is my problem. Our we supposed to use our knowledge to prove that God is real? Thats what I don't understand. I believe in science a lot and humans in general want to know everything and I believe we should be allowed to figure everything out. Also we should be able to accept the consequences that come with the knowledge.

I truly am split between both worlds.

[quote260269310e="phriq"][quote260269310e="J4320"]"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

--- Benjamin Franklin

The reality is that you're worshiping a god made by man with the mentality of a spoiled rotten child. I'm not trying to insult you personally either, honestly. Any Christian who reads the Bible can plainly see this as I did when I was a Christian for the first 15-16 years of my life. A god who created us to think logically and intelligently burns those who use those gifts?

You're right, the Bible is all about faith instead of knowledge. In fact, the very first story in the Bible is about punishment for those who seek knowledge. So if you decide to follow an empty promise that is supposed to "make sense when you get there," I as a fellow human being strongly urge you to reconsider.

Phriq and kelbypayday, I also strongly urge both of you to look into things even further and let the knowledge guide you. The evidence is there if you look for it. The future isn't needed to "prove" one side wrong. Our current understandings already do enough to make you realize that the Christian/Judaic god is simply the next Thor.[/quote260269310e]

The thing is I have researched this,, Not a much the ghost issue, but heaven, hell, and religion. I took many religion courses in college. Not just Christian, but i studied and wnet to islam temples, studied the bahai faith, muslem, buhdism. and the more I study, the more i believe in a solitary true God. The thing is you stated that its a man made god, however, I believe god made man, and man recognized taht and believes in him.. There is no deffinitive scientific proof either way. However, when i see the night sky, when i feel "true love", when i see the animals, or just get a shiver up my back listening to music, then i know,,,,its true. i believe.[/quote260269310e]

Be reasonable here. Of course there is not scientific proof that god exists. How are you supposed to prove that an imaginary thing doesn't exist? We can't prove that green goblins and fairies don't exist, but that doesn't mean that they are there.

I'm very surprised that studying religions made you think it was more likely there was a god. If anything, you'd think it'd point you further away. Did you just study what different religions believe? Did you ever study the origins and influences of different religions?

Anyway, you don't make sense when you say we don't have "deffinitive scientific proof" to prove one wrong and the other right. "God" has no scientific proof to it. The very concept of god is EXACTLY OPPOSITE of science. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp. When something cannot be explained, it's not scientific to just say "god did it." To look at the unknown and attribute it to the unknown is not science. God is not scientific. God wasn't created by science, but rather by superstition.

When you "see the night sky, when i feel 'true love', when i see the animals, or just get a shiver up my back listening to music, then i know,,,,its true. i believe," you're basically saying that just because something is so complex you just absolutely know that it's true that there's a creator. It's foolish to think this.

[quote575a21c856="J4320"][quote575a21c856="phriq"][quote575a21c856="J4320"]"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."

--- Benjamin Franklin

The reality is that you're worshiping a god made by man with the mentality of a spoiled rotten child. I'm not trying to insult you personally either, honestly. Any Christian who reads the Bible can plainly see this as I did when I was a Christian for the first 15-16 years of my life. A god who created us to think logically and intelligently burns those who use those gifts?

You're right, the Bible is all about faith instead of knowledge. In fact, the very first story in the Bible is about punishment for those who seek knowledge. So if you decide to follow an empty promise that is supposed to "make sense when you get there," I as a fellow human being strongly urge you to reconsider.

Phriq and kelbypayday, I also strongly urge both of you to look into things even further and let the knowledge guide you. The evidence is there if you look for it. The future isn't needed to "prove" one side wrong. Our current understandings already do enough to make you realize that the Christian/Judaic god is simply the next Thor.[/quote575a21c856]

The thing is I have researched this,, Not a much the ghost issue, but heaven, hell, and religion. I took many religion courses in college. Not just Christian, but i studied and wnet to islam temples, studied the bahai faith, muslem, buhdism. and the more I study, the more i believe in a solitary true God. The thing is you stated that its a man made god, however, I believe god made man, and man recognized taht and believes in him.. There is no deffinitive scientific proof either way. However, when i see the night sky, when i feel "true love", when i see the animals, or just get a shiver up my back listening to music, then i know,,,,its true. i believe.[/quote575a21c856]

Be reasonable here. Of course there is not scientific proof that god exists. How are you supposed to prove that an imaginary thing doesn't exist? We can't prove that green goblins and fairies don't exist, but that doesn't mean that they are there.

I'm very surprised that studying religions made you think it was more likely there was a god. If anything, you'd think it'd point you further away. Did you just study what different religions believe? Did you ever study the origins and influences of different religions?

Anyway, you don't make sense when you say we don't have "deffinitive scientific proof" to prove one wrong and the other right. "God" has no scientific proof to it. The very concept of god is EXACTLY OPPOSITE of science. I don't know why this is so hard for some people to grasp. When something cannot be explained, it's not scientific to just say "god did it." To look at the unknown and attribute it to the unknown is not science. God is not scientific. God wasn't created by science, but rather by superstition.

When you "see the night sky, when i feel 'true love', when i see the animals, or just get a shiver up my back listening to music, then i know,,,,its true. i believe," you're basically saying that just because something is so complex you just absolutely know that it's true that there's a creator. It's foolish to think this.[/quote575a21c856]

I think it is just as foolish to deny it. If you think about it, We are both believe something that cannot be proven. You believe god does not exist and I believe he does. Just because you cannot see it does not mean that it does not exist, (such as air) or even better so, gravity. we have no idea what it is, we just know the effects of it. Same is how I believe about God. You claim God was created by Superstition, yet that cannot be proven, None of this can. So in an essance our beliefs are one the same, just on opposite sides.

And to answer your questions about what I studied, it was a some of both, Origins and beliefs, We visited leaders of those religions to try to see from their viewpoint.

I understand everyone has their own believes, But i do believe it "IS" wrong to call them foolish based off them....Its like, do you believe in aliens? It in a way the same as believing in a God..

This is all in good discussion. I mean nothing bad with what I say. I just want you to have a clear understanding of my beliefs.

It's not just as foolish to deny it. You're saying, "I believe that the magical fairy that defies all reasoning and logic created everything. You cannot prove that there is not a magical fairy so therefore my beliefs are just as good as yours. Just look at how complex the earth is, whenever I look at an animal I just know that because it's so amazing the mighty magical fairy must have did it. You can't prove my fairy was created by man with superstition, therefore you're simply guessing on things and your guess is as good as mine."

Okay, let's get the thread back on topic. J4320, I'm sure you don't mean them to be condescending, but the way your posts are criticizing the beliefs of others is coming off extremely rude and arrogant.

If people want to discuss religion, there's already a few good threads started. Let's leave this thread to discussion of the original topic.

I fail to see how it is rude or arrogant. However, I do see how it is off-topic from the topic. I shall stop then. )

edit - Yeah I reread it and it can sound harsh, but I'm not trying to make direct insults toward members here. Personally, I think it's stupid to not have harsh criticism for this type of thinking.

[quotefb360ffba9="J4320"]I fail to see how it is rude or arrogant. However, I do see how it is off-topic from the topic. I shall stop then. )

edit - Yeah I reread it and it can sound harsh, but I'm not trying to make direct insults toward members here. Personally, I think it's stupid to not have harsh criticism for this type of thinking.[/quotefb360ffba9]

No worries man, I know its all in good conversation and discussion. And It does come down to individual beliefs...And I completely understnad from where you come as well and I applaud your strong beliefs as well.

Sorry FIPG for getting off topic.

I lisoli wanted to post a response to some of J4320's comments. But I won't drag this discussion any further off topic. P

[quote162847b8c3="dmorris68"]I lisoli wanted to post a response to some of J4320's comments. But I won't drag this discussion any further off topic. P[/quote162847b8c3]

Create a new thread.

We could call it "The side Note of Ghosts, Spirits, Angels, Demons....."

[quotefbaba641c0="dmorris68"]I lisoli wanted to post a response to some of J4320's comments. But I won't drag this discussion any further off topic. P[/quotefbaba641c0]

kai plz haev it n e wai????

Someone go bump some religious thread. )

There you go J4320. Just did it...Let the discussion continue ;)

Bringing this back.

My son has talked about a man in my house. Telling me "Daddy, there is a man in the room" so we go in there and he tells me the man went bye bye. And he talks to himself like hes talking to someone else all the time and has told me "the man will fix it". My questions about this man have come up empty with him

My cousin had a kid right when my grandpa died and when she got older and learned who he was. She said that he used to visit her to talk to her and play with her when she was younger, so I am thinking it may be him hanging around.

Sometime this week I plan on going lights out in my house with a tape recorder and a camera and seeing what I can get out of it. I know someone hangs around me, because I go out of town and sometimes people will say they feel like someone is with us, and they have never felt like that before. I am very excited about this -- and hope to get something out of it.


Also experiences with this

-Alcohol bottle picks itself up off the ground and moves (actually seen)
-A figure, like a shadow but darker, has been seen by me and my friends. One time my friend asked me who was here because he saw someone on the couch while he was walking up, and I was in the kitchen the entire time. This figure I always can sense, like sometimes I will be in one room and I can just feel someone there and I look and you see a black figure move out of the way.
-Lights on. Cabinets open when I get home that I know were closed and/or off when I left.
-My son saying that he sees a man in the room, along with talking and playing with him.
-Doors opening and slamming
-Footsteps inside the house when I am home alone.
-One night me and a lady friend were watching TV and the recliner moved like someone sat up out of it.
-Sometimes randomly all my electronics will go ape shit at night. My cell phone will lock up, my mouse will lock, my computer freezes, my music skips, and the TV goes fuzzy all at the same time for about 20 seconds and then it goes back to normal. One time I yelled "Quit it please" and it all stopped. (Though I chalk that up to coincidence)