The Atheist Delusion

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=49784

J4320

15-12-2006 22:49:08

Link[=http//atheistdelusion.cf.huffingtonpost.com/]Link

Now I know that this has a lot of satire and sarcasm but it has made me think. Coming from a Christian private school, I've always been told that the Bible is 100% accurate and that it's the best historical reference literature has to offer. I'm kind of finding it harder to believe right now and I don't want to just accept everything I'm told without looking into it first. That's just the way I am. I'm not in that school anymore, but I was getting really tired of things like this being shown to me ---

Link[=http//www.ebaumsworld.com/2006/05/bananaproof.html]Link

Why do Christians think that the Bible is 100% right? The gospel about Jesus wasn't even written until about 70-100 years after his death. The stories were passed down by words. Has anyone played the telephone game? You can't even get the same single sentence when you put it through 20 people... how on earth would the gospel be 100% accurate when it was in the "telephone game" with TONS of people with about 70-100 years on it?

If I were still in that school, I'd be challenging the teacher on some issues that don't feel right with me. I really wish I did it last year and now I'm regretting it. I would also like to say that despite all my efforts of trying to worship and get close to God, I have never heard anything from him nor have I witnessed anything miraculous from him. I still don't even know if he exists. I've prayed every night but it just doesn't seem to get me anywhere. I don't like 1 way conversations. If he loved me, wouldn't he respond to me in some way? I'm tired of wasting my time on things like this and going to boring sermons on Sundays on things I've heard for years and years and years and years. I'm just getting tired of it because I'm really not getting anything out of it despite my efforts. To be 100% honest, the only thing that is keeping me on Christianity is the fear of suffering in hell.

I'm tired of Christians trying to shove Christianity down everyone else's throats in politics and such and saying that they are always 100% right and everyone else should conform to their ways. I thought Christians were suppose to lead by example and show love and compassion, making people WANT to be like them. Some of the things I see on the news like this just make me sick to myself. Nobody likes arrogant bigots who are judgmental. Now I realize that not all Christians are like this but that still doesn't satisfy my questions about the Bible's accuracy and connecting to God. I'm beginning to think that Christians are just experiencing extreme emotions and thinking that it's God or something.

Anyway, I just thought I'd make a little rant here. What are your thoughts on this? I don't care what kind of comments I get, they can span from Evolution vs Creationism to how you lol'd at the flash presentation or your personal thoughts on Christianity in general. And of course, no flaming. )

tylerc

15-12-2006 22:53:02

Exactly why I'm agnostic. Who's to say the Bible is right or wrong? I don't know either way, and anyone who says they do without a doubt is a fool.

theysayjump

15-12-2006 23:31:42

Over the last 5 years or so I've grown up a lot. I've changed from being 99% Agnostic to about 51% that God exists and 49% that he doesn't.

Just because you pray doesn't entitle you to anything. When you pray, do you thank God for what you have in life or do you just complain about what you don't have?

I have too many questions to believe that God exists 100%, but many things have happened in the last few years that I can't explain logically. I guess believing in an omnipotent being can be considered illogical, but oh well.

J4320

15-12-2006 23:39:02

My prayers have had very little complaints. I used to try to keep it personal and I was always thankful. Since I haven't gotten anything out of it, it seems it's more of a routine memorized prayer that I just recite. I know this won't get me any closer but I've already tried for years and years and I already know where I'll end up.

And I see what you mean about things happening. There are some pretty strange things that can't be explained. I believe all of the creepy stories you've shared with us. Nothing like that has happened to me but I don't see why you'd be making it up and I honestly do have a lot of trust and respect for you, so I do believe you. There are too many other weird paranormal stories that happen to regular people like us so I can't really rule out the spiritual side of this world.

Life really is a mystery. I really can't deny that there is a spiritual side to this world but I haven't experienced any of it myself.

Offer4All

15-12-2006 23:49:46

Prayer is done to glorify God. To give thanks for what you have and not to complain about what you dont have. Living is something to be thankful for. I dont believe in going to church every sunday either.

theysayjump

15-12-2006 23:54:21

Oh I'm not making up the paranormal stories at all, those are all real and I'll stand by those experiences until the day I die.

What I was referring to though was non-paranormal experiences (ie, shit happens). The main thing that makes me believe in the possible existence of God (or some higher power) is the complexity of the human body as well as the animal kingdom and their complexity. I just can't get my head around the theory that it all happened by chance. I used to be the complete opposite.

zr2152

16-12-2006 00:15:10

I also go to a Christian college, but if people have doubts and want to know more about this mystery, look up and purchase the following books

A Case for Faith
A Case for Christ
A Case for Creation

all by a man name Lee Strobel (Strobal)

one of the two. Seriously look them up, they changed my perspective a ton!

Enjoy!

TryinToGetPaid

16-12-2006 07:43:00

I do not go to church. Church does nothing for me on Sunday, so I stopped going. But I believe in God, because the world works too well to not have a God. How the human body works, hell, even how a cell works is too perfect. The sky is too blue and the grass is too green.

Plus, the ultimate If I die, and I believed in God and there is no heaven, I am fine with that. But if I die, and I did not believe in God and there is a heaven, boy would I be regretting that.

OldManWrigley

16-12-2006 07:56:48

You say the gospel about Jesus wasn't written for 70 years after his death. I'm sure someone didn't just compile a book out of what he heard throughout his life. There were probably journals written down from the time of his death scattered in different places and yadde-yadda and the book was written off the papers.

I sometimes have my doubts about the whole situation. Then I really think about it. No way in my mind do I think for a second that God had nothing to do with the creation of the world we live in today. People say it'd be impossible to create the world in seven days or whatever. We didn't get our sixty second minute, sixty minute hour, and 24 hour day until about 300BC (I think), so when it says seven days....we honestly have no idea how long that is.

Also, this might sound strange, but my little step brother (14) died of a seizure in June. He had had medical problems all his life, but always fought through them. He was going blind and deaf, but you'd never find him down or upset. Always smiling, always wanted to watch the Sox or play Gamecube. Only listened to contemparary gospel, and went to church every Sunday with his mom, step dad (my dad), and his brother. Always praying, and strongly believed that God was our savior, and he was as real as Johnny Damon. A few weeks after he passed away, my Dad still hadn't recovered. He was sitting on my step-grandparents front porch just going along his day, and suddenly was hit with a moment of sadness. He almost started to cry, and in his head "just asked Jesse for sign that he was ok." He looked up into a 90% clear day to find the word "POPS" written in the clouds. Literally. His wife, who never believes all of his stupid stuff he usually says about miracles and so forth, agreed that it was clear as day. Jesse always called him Pops, and nothing else. Everyone always commented on how cute it was. Sometimes I think he loved him more then most of his other real children, they were that close. My dad is an [b2e01ed57a4]artist[/b2e01ed57a4][=www.dennissheehan.com][b2e01ed57a4]artist[/b2e01ed57a4], so he went home and painted exactly what he saw. I saw the painting and couldn't believe it. His wife confirmed thats exactly what the sky looked like...


Sorry to go on and on but when I read the post I was kind of agreeing with the 4320 but then that popped into my head, and really whenever I question my faith, I think of that. Coincidence maybe, who knows, but for me, I believe God's up there.

Powerbook

16-12-2006 08:11:26

[quote1924216196="OldManWrigley"]You say the gospel about Jesus wasn't written for 70 years after his death. I'm sure someone didn't just compile a book out of what he heard throughout his life. There were probably journals written down from the time of his death scattered in different places and yadde-yadda and the book was written off the papers.

I sometimes have my doubts about the whole situation. Then I really think about it. No way in my mind do I think for a second that God had nothing to do with the creation of the world we live in today. People say it'd be impossible to create the world in seven days or whatever. We didn't get our sixty second minute, sixty minute hour, and 24 hour day until about 300BC (I think), so when it says seven days....we honestly have no idea how long that is.

Also, this might sound strange, but my little step brother (14) died of a seizure in June. He had had medical problems all his life, but always fought through them. He was going blind and deaf, but you'd never find him down or upset. Always smiling, always wanted to watch the Sox or play Gamecube. Only listened to contemparary gospel, and went to church every Sunday with his mom, step dad (my dad), and his brother. Always praying, and strongly believed that God was our savior, and he was as real as Johnny Damon. A few weeks after he passed away, my Dad still hadn't recovered. He was sitting on my step-grandparents front porch just going along his day, and suddenly was hit with a moment of sadness. He almost started to cry, and in his head "just asked Jesse for sign that he was ok." He looked up into a 90% clear day to find the word "POPS" written in the clouds. Literally. His wife, who never believes all of his stupid stuff he usually says about miracles and so forth, agreed that it was clear as day. Jesse always called him Pops, and nothing else. Everyone always commented on how cute it was. Sometimes I think he loved him more then most of his other real children, they were that close. My dad is an [b1924216196]artist[/b1924216196][=www.dennissheehan.com][b1924216196]artist[/b1924216196], so he went home and painted exactly what he saw. I saw the painting and couldn't believe it. His wife confirmed thats exactly what the sky looked like...


Sorry to go on and on but when I read the post I was kind of agreeing with the 4320 but then that popped into my head, and really whenever I question my faith, I think of that. Coincidence maybe, who knows, but for me, I believe God's up there.[/quote1924216196]


I believe God is there a s well. This world is too great to imagine only science being responsible for its creation. I have witnessed many strange phenomenons that are not explainable. A couple years ago, we were taking a family photo in our yard where we have a little hill. I looked up in the sky to see a cloud which distinctly looked like a man with a had smirking. All the features were there. I wish I could find that picture right now. It wasn't one of those times where you look at the sky and try to see what the clouds look like. This looked like a man right in the sky. It was crazy. I will never forget that day.

ilanbg

16-12-2006 09:01:30

Once Christianity gained popularity, it learned how to avoid losing it by being the most political religion. It changed its policies based on the times and issues people faced.

Here is a recent example.[=http//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/5406552.stm]Here is a recent example. The Pope announced to all Africans that limbo no longer exists, in order to maintain support. If Africans think all their children are going to limbo for all eternity due to miscarriages, eventually they're going to start losing faith.

Christianity has been doing this throughout history. This is partly why there are so many sects.

Do I approve or disprove the existence of god/God? I have no idea, although I'm still looking. But if there's anything I'm sure of, it's that Christianity (at least its current conception) does not accurately depict God. It blatantly does whatever is needed to maintain power, and then it uses that power to impose its beliefs on others.


As for "unexplainable phenomenons" maybe 1) you got confused or 2) science can't currently explain whatever you witnessed. There was a time when the act of raining could be nothing less than an act of god. After all, how can water—our source of life—continue to fall from the sky, seemingly out of nowhere? There was no possible explanation until science figured it out.

J4320

16-12-2006 10:57:54

^ That's a good point about the rain thing. I never thought of it that way. There still is a whole lot more that science has yet to discover. We still don't even know what all goes on in the deepest parts of the ocean.

[quote3457727d0e="zr2152"]I also go to a Christian college, but if people have doubts and want to know more about this mystery, look up and purchase the following books

A Case for Faith
A Case for Christ
A Case for Creation

all by a man name Lee Strobel (Strobal)

one of the two. Seriously look them up, they changed my perspective a ton!

Enjoy![/quote3457727d0e]

Can you give us examples or some things that really stuck out to you?

lieditli

People like him make me sick -

http//digg.com/offbeat_news/Sermon_wants_you_to_pay_for_his_private_Gulfstream_Jet_in_Gods_Name

TFOAF

16-12-2006 15:26:38

[quoted31d151901="theysayjump"]Oh I'm not making up the paranormal stories at all, those are all real and I'll stand by those experiences until the day I die.

What I was referring to though was non-paranormal experiences (ie, shit happens). The main thing that makes me believe in the possible existence of God (or some higher power) is the complexity of the human body as well as the animal kingdom and their complexity. I just can't get my head around the theory that it all happened by chance. I used to be the complete opposite.[/quoted31d151901]
Jump, what were the paranormal abnormalities that you experienced? I'm intrigued by paranormal stuff. D

And to add on to the topic, there's too much spiritual shit that happens for G-d not to exist. Though, we cannot confirm as of now that we have a higher power. I'm 90% sure we do. I never really thought of NOT having a G-d. All I gotta say is that you scientists better watch out. ;)

I like many other religious people (I'm not overly religious), go to Temple on the high holidays. We pray, yeah. I'm not 100% sure what we're saying. Most of the time I havn't got a clue as to what anyone's saying. However, praying to G-d...it always made me think. There's too many questions that have yet to be answered, and that probably will never be answered.

zdub08

16-12-2006 15:38:04

I'm just curious, why don't you write out "God"?

TFOAF

16-12-2006 15:54:11

Out of habit. I just find it more proper that way. (My beliefs)

zdub08

16-12-2006 16:23:19

[quote98862005cf="TFOAF"]Out of habit. I just find it more proper that way. (My beliefs)[/quote98862005cf]
it's obviously your beliefs, can you explain them?

Gigante

16-12-2006 16:51:03

When you go into a final that is gonna kick your ass, do you ask God to let you do good? If someone had a gun to your head, would you ask God to let you live? If so, but you think you are agnostic, maybe consider classifying yourself as a Deist or a Mason.

zr2152

16-12-2006 17:25:56

[quotebedf37f0d0="J4320"]^ That's a good point about the rain thing. I never thought of it that way. There still is a whole lot more that science has yet to discover. We still don't even know what all goes on in the deepest parts of the ocean.

[quotebedf37f0d0="zr2152"]I also go to a Christian college, but if people have doubts and want to know more about this mystery, look up and purchase the following books

A Case for Faith
A Case for Christ
A Case for Creation

all by a man name Lee Strobel (Strobal)

one of the two. Seriously look them up, they changed my perspective a ton!

Enjoy![/quotebedf37f0d0]

Can you give us examples or some things that really stuck out to you?

lieditli

People like him make me sick-

http//digg.com/offbeat_news/Sermon_wants_you_to_pay_for_his_private_Gulfstream_Jet_in_Gods_Name[/quotebedf37f0d0]

Personally, I have never read A Case for Christ or A Case for Faith. I went through almost all of A Case for Creation two summers ago, and I was just amazed with everything that it said about the creation of the universe. It takes scientific "evidence or data" and totally throws a creation fact right back at it. I plan to go through it over my Christmas break, and even gain more of a perspective on it. I am taking a creation evolution class in Janurary so we'll see how that goes.

I have no doubt that God exists and that he is my personal savior, but I do struggle with things and we are all human. But when people try to tell me that God did not have a hand in the creation of this beautiful world, I just dont know what to say. I can't believe that they actually believe this. Look at all that is out there, the stars, the human eye (soooo complex). Its just amazing. When people say " oh it was the big bang theory," I just say "well where did the molecules come from that created the big bang theory?" It just drives me crazy.

I could go on forever, but seriously you should read these books, or at least take a look at them. If you dont believe in God, why dont you?

TFOAF

16-12-2006 18:58:13

[quotebed482a51c="zdub08"][quotebed482a51c="TFOAF"]Out of habit. I just find it more proper that way. (My beliefs)[/quotebed482a51c]
it's obviously your beliefs, can you explain them?[/quotebed482a51c]
I do not wish to discuss my personal beliefs/reasons for believing them. I'd probably get into a religious debate and get people angry. Sorry.

Jump, if you see this, reply to my other post which was responding to your previous comment.[/sizebed482a51c]

h3x

16-12-2006 20:31:02

I don't know why you're ashamed of your religion, TFOAF.

According to the Jewish faith, it's a sin to deface the word, so we use the - in the middle to avoid sinning.

TFOAF

17-12-2006 06:39:01

[quote7e274a7a48="h3x"]I don't know why you're ashamed of your religion, TFOAF.

According to the Jewish faith, it's a sin to deface the word, so we use the - in the middle to avoid sinning.[/quote7e274a7a48]
Yeah, I know. But it's also what I believe in. I don't believe 100% of everything in the Jewish religion. ;)

J4320

17-12-2006 10:10:56

[quoteee707ca5d3="zr2152"][quoteee707ca5d3="J4320"]^ That's a good point about the rain thing. I never thought of it that way. There still is a whole lot more that science has yet to discover. We still don't even know what all goes on in the deepest parts of the ocean.

[quoteee707ca5d3="zr2152"]I also go to a Christian college, but if people have doubts and want to know more about this mystery, look up and purchase the following books

A Case for Faith
A Case for Christ
A Case for Creation

all by a man name Lee Strobel (Strobal)

one of the two. Seriously look them up, they changed my perspective a ton!

Enjoy![/quoteee707ca5d3]

Can you give us examples or some things that really stuck out to you?

lieditli

People like him make me sick-

http//digg.com/offbeat_news/Sermon_wants_you_to_pay_for_his_private_Gulfstream_Jet_in_Gods_Name[/quoteee707ca5d3]

Personally, I have never read A Case for Christ or A Case for Faith. I went through almost all of A Case for Creation two summers ago, and I was just amazed with everything that it said about the creation of the universe. It takes scientific "evidence or data" and totally throws a creation fact right back at it. I plan to go through it over my Christmas break, and even gain more of a perspective on it. I am taking a creation evolution class in Janurary so we'll see how that goes.

I have no doubt that God exists and that he is my personal savior, but I do struggle with things and we are all human. But when people try to tell me that God did not have a hand in the creation of this beautiful world, I just dont know what to say. I can't believe that they actually believe this. Look at all that is out there, the stars, the human eye (soooo complex). Its just amazing. When people say " oh it was the big bang theory," I just say "well where did the molecules come from that created the big bang theory?" It just drives me crazy.

I could go on forever, but seriously you should read these books, or at least take a look at them. If you dont believe in God, why dont you?[/quoteee707ca5d3]

I never said I didn't believe in God, I'm just having a hard time with some Christianity issues. It is pretty crazy to think that the universe happened by accident.

Dr. Doom

17-12-2006 11:18:24

[quote61cfb7734a="J4320"]My prayers have had very little complaints. I used to try to keep it personal and I was always thankful. Since I haven't gotten anything out of it, it seems it's more of a routine memorized prayer that I just recite.[/quote61cfb7734a]

What do you mean when you say you "haven't gotten anything out of it?" Are you supposed to get something out of prayer?

Obvious, Jewish and Christian prayers are different, but I've always been under the impression that prayer is about thanking G-d for all that you've received in life. For example, the first prayer most Jews recite in the morning is to thank G-d for waking up. I personally haven't prayed in many years, but I like the idea of being thankful for the fact that you're alive today when you might have simply never woken up.

I think the problem with religion today is that it is focused too much on whom you believe in, how you believe in them and who's right. These things are irrelevant.

J4320 mentioned that he doesn't see anything in his life (ie, miracles) that support his faith. Who ever said that you're supposed to? It's comments like these that make me think that the purpose of religion is becoming lost. In ancient times, religion provided a value-system for people that allowed all of society to progress. As new types of knowledge and science developed, the need for religion lessened as people came to the same conclusions that religion did through other means. Many philosophies, ranging from ancient Greek to modern, come up with very similar ideas the best thing to do (or be) in the world is good.

We may never know if there truly is a G-d, or if there is only science, or if there is a combination of both, which means that the focus needs to be on what we are clear about the world we live in.

Whether it's through religion or philosophy, it simply makes sense for humans to interact with humans in a certain way (ie, don't kill people). I believe this is the most important tenet of religion in general. [b61cfb7734a]One parable that I've always been fond of involves some Gentile (I forget who) asking a Rabbi in ancient times to teach him the entire Torah while standing on one foot. The Rabbi answered him, "Treat others the way you want to be treated. The rest of the Torah is simply commentary."[/b61cfb7734a] This story hits on exactly the point I've been trying to make whether or not there is a G-d or science working in the world, we don't have much control over them. However, one of the aspects of our existence that we truly have control over is how we treat other people. In this sense, we have the power to recreate the world in the fashion that we want it to be.

An interesting thing I learned several years ago was that in ancient times, the Jewish religion said little about the afterlife. When Christianity, with its focus on heaven and hell, became popular in the world, Judaism was eventually compelled to elucidate a system of retribution of its own (though not quite as harsh as the Christian system). Even so, modern Judaism continues to focus on the afterlife less than Christianity; why is that? The answer is that Judaism acknowledges that what comes in the next world is a mystery to all people. We can never know what to expect or what to do to prepare. The only thing we can really know is the world we live in now, and our focus should remain on this world. I think this is the reason why Judaism contains so many commandments for this world; these are actions that effectively attempt to create a "heaven" of sorts on Earth. In other words, everyone needs to be worried about doing their "duty" in this world; reward and punishment are things that may or may not come, and remain secondary to a person's main purpose.

It may just be me, but I feel that this belief is something that everyone, religious and non-religious, atheist or agnostic, can buy into. If you're religious, then being good to other people will earn you heaven. If you believe in nothing, being good to other people will improve this world (a central tenet of science, as well). In any case, the commandment "Love your neighbor as yourself" is something the entire human race would benefit from.




(Sorry for the long post, but I found that once I started, I couldn't stop.)

zdub08

17-12-2006 11:52:20

I didn't read your whole post, but I dont think J4320 is expecting miracles. He probably means he doesn't feel any connection to God by praying.

ilanbg

17-12-2006 13:42:35

I am curious about something How many people gained faith towards a specific religion without 'forced' influence (i.e. parents that are of a certain faith, or going to a certain school/church)?

Both my parents are certified interfaith ministers and each belong to different religions, so thankfully I was spared of being pushed that way.

J4320

17-12-2006 13:58:35

[quotebfbe9198a9="ilanbg"]I am curious about something [bbfbe9198a9]How many people gained faith towards a specific religion without 'forced' influence[/bbfbe9198a9] (i.e. parents that are of a certain faith, or going to a certain school/church)?

Both my parents are certified interfaith ministers and each belong to different religions, so thankfully I was spared of being pushed that way.[/quotebfbe9198a9]

Me...

And Dr. Doom, I wasn't expecting to gain anything by praying besides some confirmation of spiritual existence. I don't need a miracle to become a believer. I just feel like it's the same as talking to a wall.

ilanbg

17-12-2006 14:31:15

Josh Didn't/Don't you go to a Christian school? I would assume they would be forcing their beliefs on you, no?

zr2152

17-12-2006 14:36:18

[quote412ab16dda="J4320"][quote412ab16dda="ilanbg"]I am curious about something [b412ab16dda]How many people gained faith towards a specific religion without 'forced' influence[/b412ab16dda] (i.e. parents that are of a certain faith, or going to a certain school/church)?

Both my parents are certified interfaith ministers and each belong to different religions, so thankfully I was spared of being pushed that way.[/quote412ab16dda]

Me...

And Dr. Doom, I wasn't expecting to gain anything by praying besides some confirmation of spiritual existence. I don't need a miracle to become a believer. I just feel like it's the same as talking to a wall.[/quote412ab16dda]

No i wasnt really saying that you dont believe in God, misunderstaning there, my bad. But all religion is based on faith, and that is the most important thing. Talking to a wall is a good way to look at it and many pepole do struggle with these kind of things, all christians do, its part of our spiritual walk.

Prayer does help but maybe try to do more than praying. Read James, its a great book to read to strengthen your faith, and it makes you think. I try to read that book when im either going through a lot, having doubts, or just wanting to strenghthen my relationship with Him.

Talking about it with people also helps. What Christian School do/did you attend?

If you want to talk more personal you can PM me or AIM me lol , id love to talk to you about it if you are having doubts and need someone to talk to.

ilanbg

17-12-2006 16:43:42

http//photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2783/325/1600/776583/seehere.blogspot.com%20cats%20%2875%29.jpg[" alt=""/imgaeb51e558e]

J4320

17-12-2006 17:04:22

[quote76d1296222="ilanbg"]Josh Didn't/Don't you go to a Christian school? I would assume they would be forcing their beliefs on you, no?[/quote76d1296222]

Yeah I did. My parents are both Christian too. And yes, they really do force it on you. I had to sign a contract that said I was a Christian and I would uphold it's values while in the school.

Funny story - some kids in our school were in a condo on a ski trip or something, and they wanted to go get some ice. They had their boxers/briefs on. They walk down the hall to go get some ice or whatever and I guess they were making some noise, just being guys you know. Anyway, a girl from our school sees them and complains to her mom because she didn't want to see some pretty much naked guys this young (her poor virgin eyes roll ). So the mom tells the school and they get suspended for a few days for it. Anything you say outside of the school will get you in trouble in the school. Now I'm not really one for passing rumors, there could have been more that went on but that's what I heard.

I feel as if that school has kind of robbed me of a normal high school experience. There weren't any dances and no prom or anything, just weird dinner things. There's a bunch of other stuff that I hated about the school but it's over now. )

[quote76d1296222="zr2152"][quote76d1296222="J4320"][quote76d1296222="ilanbg"]I am curious about something [b76d1296222]How many people gained faith towards a specific religion without 'forced' influence[/b76d1296222] (i.e. parents that are of a certain faith, or going to a certain school/church)?

Both my parents are certified interfaith ministers and each belong to different religions, so thankfully I was spared of being pushed that way.[/quote76d1296222]

Me...

And Dr. Doom, I wasn't expecting to gain anything by praying besides some confirmation of spiritual existence. I don't need a miracle to become a believer. I just feel like it's the same as talking to a wall.[/quote76d1296222]

No i wasnt really saying that you dont believe in God, misunderstaning there, my bad. But all religion is based on faith, and that is the most important thing. Talking to a wall is a good way to look at it and many pepole do struggle with these kind of things, all christians do, its part of our spiritual walk.

Prayer does help but maybe try to do more than praying. Read James, its a great book to read to strengthen your faith, and it makes you think. I try to read that book when im either going through a lot, having doubts, or just wanting to strenghthen my relationship with Him.

Talking about it with people also helps. What Christian School do/did you attend?

If you want to talk more personal you can PM me or AIM me lol , id love to talk to you about it if you are having doubts and need someone to talk to.[/quote76d1296222]

I think you read the part that was meant for Dr. Doom and you thought it was for you. Anyway, yeah I've read the entire Bible already and it was really hard to stay with it. It was part of the schools curriculum so we read it in class and discussed it a lot.

Anyway, I used to attend one in Colorado called Faith. Now I'm in Washington in a public highschool/community college (I take college classes at the college but I'm still considered a highschool student).

johnjimjones

17-12-2006 17:35:18

Now that I think about it, my prayers are more complaints than giving thanks. I've gone to church every Sunday (at college, not really, since I haven't made time for it) since forever and now it seems more of a routine rather than a reason for me going.

ilanbg

17-12-2006 18:20:18

But does anyone think their failure to find God has to do with the quality of their prayers?