this a good monitor?

basically im ordering my whole pc to build soon from newegg, and i just wanna know if this is a good monitor, i have a few friends that know alot about them and they said the monitor is a pretty good choice (since i dont have enough money to get 3092482309483 inches like dmorris, hehe jp ])

what do you guys think?

http//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116375

What sort of stuff do you do? Photo work, graphic design, etc? Do you have an "eye" for color purity?

Look for Psyc's thread asking the same question about another monitor, where I go into more detail.

In summary, this is a blazing fast 2ms monitor, but it's 6-bit only (which explains the speed, 6-bit panels are naturally faster than 8-bit panels). Color reproduction will suffer due to its ability to only render 262K true colors -- it will dither the rest to achieve 16.2M. An 8-bit panel will accurately reproduce 16.7M true colors.

yeah i saw that thread, i dont know where you found 6-bit or 8-bit on my link, i only see
Display Colours 16.2 Million

i do alot of gaming, battlefield 2 for example. where do you see 6-bit?

16.2M = 6-bit
16.7M = 8-bit

BF2 would depend on your sensitivity, I suppose. I play BF2 but only on 8-bit panels, so I can't say for sure.

Anywhere you see subtle gradient hue changes is prone to dithering artifacts. It depends on how static the gradient is, on fast moving images you may not see it, but on the sky, walls, etc. it might bug you.

Edit Keep in mind that some manufacturers cheat and claim 16.7M colors on their 6-bit panels, which has been proven to be disingenious at best, fraudulent and a downright lie at worst. Reference the article I posted in Psyc's thread about the Samsung 940b I think it was, which makes that claim. Which is ironic because Samsung is one of the best LCD monitor makers.

oh ok, what do you think of this one?

http//www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824116380

That looks like an 8-bit monitor according to the specs, and everything else still well within gaming specs.

However I have to say I'm not a ViewSonic fan. Some people swear by them, and I'm not going to NOT recommend them to you, but I've had less than stellar experiences with ViewSonic gear.

For high-end LCD's, I prefer Dell and Samsung.

For budget LCD's, Acer and some BenQ's are pretty good.

Honestly though, monitor quality is so subjective that different people see them very differently, so YMMV.

what do you think of this one?

http//www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7894086&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01011&id=1149205183814

i saw it when i went to bestbuy a few days ago, and thats it..

pretty nice 2ms 20001 (almost triple as the others i showed you), the only problem is i cant find if its 6-bit or 8-bit, neither 16.2M or 16.7M display colors. ill have to contact them about that

[quote1d51bbf791="AstonisheD"]what do you think of this one?

http//www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7894086&type=product&productCategoryId=cat01011&id=1149205183814

i saw it when i went to bestbuy a few days ago, and thats it..

pretty nice 2ms 20001 (almost triple as the others i showed you), the only problem is i cant find if its 6-bit or 8-bit, neither 16.2M or 16.7M display colors. ill have to contact them about that[/quote1d51bbf791]
It's a 6-bit panel. First, anytime you see these super-fast panels at under 8ms, it's almost guaranteed to be 6-bit. 6-bit panels are faster than 8-bit, and uninformed people buy for speed before all the other more important features of a monitor -- I've seen 20ms panels that look and play better than some 12ms panels (Dell 1905FP is a good example). But a lot of people think response time is the only factor to consider, not realizing that response times are measured in many different ways, which poor quality manufacturers take advantage of to impress you with their "fast" panels.

But just to confirm I went to Samsung's site

http//www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Analog/LS19MEDSBQXAA.asp?page=Specifications

[quote1d51bbf791]Colors Supported 16.2 Million[/quote1d51bbf791]
Don't get me wrong, I like the Samsung brand. I just don't like 6-bit panels. They just cater to the market like everybody else, so they sell 6-bit panels too. And 6-bit may be okay for you, lots of people wouldn't know until you showed them the difference.

Best advice is to demo one with various types of input (games, photos, etc.).

Yeah I kinda expected it to be 6-bit.

If I choose a really high ms panel, it's gonna ghost alot in games and stuff...
I found one at Dell, here's what admin from TalkLCD said about it when I asked him if it was 6 bit or 8 bit

"6 bit FRC, you will generall not notice a difference...

It is not easy to find an 8 bit monitor that doesnt ghost mainly because there are not very many people that have a need for that."

What do you think? I don't know I really wanna get a 8-bit for hardcore games and stuff.
http//accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsd&cs=04&sku=320-4568

I'm using the Viewsonic 1912wb (19" Widescreen) and its a great monitor. I play some mild games like WoW and Civilization 4, but it runs great. No ghosting, great vibrant color (through DVI). Just some input.

most designers go with CRT instead of 8 bit


edit lol, unless they are rich

I was talking to TalkLCD admin and he says it all depends on what you do on the computer. I told him I do hardcore gaming alot more than graphics/designing, so he said 6-bit with dithering would be my best choice because that wouldn't give me any ghosting in games and still be able to do graphics without noticing anything. ]

[quote057cbac4dd]6 bit FRC, you will generall not notice a difference...

It is not easy to find an 8 bit monitor that doesnt ghost mainly because there are not very many people that have a need for that.[/quote057cbac4dd]
On the first point, he's probably right... for most people. Like I said, check the link I posted over in Psyc's thread, where the guy tested the 6-bit+FRC Samsung (the 940b, I believe). A good FRC implementation is probably less noticeable than true dithering (FRC swaps pixels between different colors very rapidly, giving the illusion of another color). However it is noticeable to people who are sensitive or just know to look for such things.

On his second point? I couldn't disagree more. LOT'S of good quality 8-bit monitors that don't ghost are very easy to find. First, compared to a CRT, virtually liALLli LCD's ghost. However what we consider "ghost free" just means that ghosting isn't perceptible to the human eye. Test equipment and cameras with fast shutter speeds will pick it up clearly even when you can't just by looking at it. With that said, quality 8-bit panels by Samsung and Dell, for example, will exhibit virtually no visible ghosting. Even at up to 16-20ms response times.

I'm telling you, people get way too caught up in response time when they should be looking at the big picture. Here's what I look for, in order of preference

Color Depth (6-bit or 8-bit)
Contrast Ratio (5001 or better)
Brightness (250 nits or better)
Interpolation Quality (scaling to non-native resolutions)
Response Time (I'll consider anything under 20ms if everything else is good)

An 8ms panel from one manufacturer can ghost worse than a 12 or 16ms panel from another. Some won't ghost at native res, but ghost badly when interpolated. RT is measured in many different ways, and the lower quality panels will often "cheat" to make their panels look more impressive.

My 16ms 8-bit Dell 2001FP does not ghost at all, at any res. Nor has my 8-bit 2407WFP at 12ms (or is it 8ms, can't remember). I'd put either one up next to any uber-fast 2ms "gaming" monitor and challenge anyone to compare ghosting. Then I'd bring up some photo editing and challenge anyone to not tell the difference between 6-bit and 8-bit.

Like I said, much of this is subjective, so YMMV.

[b057cbac4dd]Edit[/b057cbac4dd] Forgot to answer your question about the Dell 1907FP. I've heard for the 1907FP Dell went with a 6-bit panel. I haven't confirmed that, just something I read recently. The 1905FP was 8-bit and was highly rated for gaming despite its "slow" 20ms response time. You can find new-in-box 1905FP's on eBay (as you can with any Dell monitor), for around $250 shipped.

And Vector is right, color/graphics purists go with CRT over LCD. However most of us, even those of us who do design work, would prefer an LCD due to it's many other benefits. And the gap between CRT and LCD quality is narrowing too.

http//cgi.ebay.com/Dell-UltraSharp-1905FP-19-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ200012403031QQihZ010QQcategoryZ99228QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That one, right?
Are you absolutely sure that 20ms will not ghost at all in the hardcore high-requirements needed games? BF2, GW Factions, etc. ?
Because most of those don't have return options. And I don't want the monitor to later find out that it will ghost like hell.

[quote3935abcf39="AstonisheD"]http//cgi.ebay.com/Dell-UltraSharp-1905FP-19-LCD-Monitor_W0QQitemZ200012403031QQihZ010QQcategoryZ99228QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That one, right?
Are you absolutely sure that 20ms will not ghost at all in the hardcore high-requirements needed games? BF2, GW Factions, etc. ?[/quote3935abcf39]
LOL, yeah that's it, and I can't guarantee [i3935abcf39]you[/i3935abcf39] won't see ghosting -- you might have bionic vision for all I know. lol

I [i3935abcf39]can[/i3935abcf39] tell you that the 1905FP was a very popular gaming monitor. Here's a review from AnandTech

http//www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2332

[quote3935abcf39="AnandTech"]WarHammer 40K, Dawn of War - When looking for a monitor's response time, we generally only consult first-person shooters for reference. However, those of you who have played a fast-paced game of Warcraft III or NeverWinter Nights will know that scrolling around for hours puts a severe tax on the monitor. We did not notice any significant problems while scrolling on our 1905FP - the game seems perfectly playable to us.

Max Payne 2 - The extreme light and dark transitions in Max Payne still provide us with the sufficient criteria to benchmark transient response time; specifically, we can focus on the light and dark extremes. Again, we get an occasional red shift here and there. Since the monitor does let us adjust the color ever slightly, we modified the color preset a nudge toward blue and green. This compensated for the red issues in most cases.

Halo, Unreal Tournament 2004 - Halo and UT2K4 have very similar results, but now, we are looking for fast motion and color correctness at the same time. After adjusting the color toward blue/green, we had to set it back when playing Halo and UT2K4. Fast motion was on par with what we expected for this game; [b3935abcf39]we certainly didn't notice any motion blur,[/b3935abcf39] but if the Dell 1905FP is your first LCD, then you will notice a difference immediately. [/quote3935abcf39]

That review also brings up a good point if you read the whole thing the majority of people who claim to see and be bothered by "ghosting" are those that have never used LCD's before. It's such a visual difference going from LCD to CRT that new LCD users are sensitive to all sorts of things, but then settle down and adjust to the point they don't notice any more. However I will say that I went from years of CRT gaming to a quality 16ms 8-bit LCD and never once noticed any ghosting -- and I made a point to look hard for it.

By all means, if you're more comfortable, go with a faster 6-bit panel. I'm sure you'll probably be satisifed. I'm just pretty certain I wouldn't be. My point is to merely try and help you be an informed consumer -- once you have that information you are in a better position to make a sound judgement, it doesn't matter what that judgement is.

http//cgi.ebay.com/NEW-DELL-LCD-20-FLAT-PANEL-MONITOR-NIB-NR-2001FP_W0QQitemZ220013197632QQihZ012QQcategoryZ86706QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is that yours?

I would get it from eBay since it's not in the Dell site anymore but it's a low 4001 contrast ration, and have you played BF2 before? If so, any ghosting? What games do you play on it that you never notice ghosting on?

Sorry for the 8350983294832 questions I just want the right monitor for my needs ]

i have the 17 inch versino of the monitor and it works great for me. never noticed any lag. very bright if you need it to be. clear colors. looks nice too )

Yes I have that 2001FP. It's a great monitor, and was the highest recommended monitor for virtually everything in it's heyday.

4001 ratio is really okay, and was pretty high at the time these came out. Really anything above 350 or 400 to 1 is acceptable, but I've become spoiled with all the high contrast panels lately so in new monitors I consider 5001 to be a good baseline. My new 2407WFP is a 10001 ratio panel. )

You can't get it from Dell because it's discontinued -- the replacement is the 2007FP, which is new so I can't say if it's better/worse than the 2001FP. Haven't read any reviews of it that I can recall, I've just been watching the 24" and up market for awhile because that was going to be my next one.

[b8a2b513ee3]Edit[/b8a2b513ee3] Oh, and to answer your gaming question yes I play BF2 (or did, I haven't in awhile) as well as Oblivion, Guild Wars, and a lot of other games. The 2001FP handled them all very well.