Walkout and Protests

anyone else's city having protests against some immigration bill and highschools having walkouts?

LA's walkout 40,000 kids, my school doesn't even have 1/8th that.

http//www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-protests28mar28,1,649992.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage&ctrack=1&cset=true[]http//www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-protests28mar28,1,649992.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage&ctrack=1&cset=true

I think the CNN article sums it all up(this was before Monday's walkout)

http//www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/28/immigration/index.html[]http//www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/03/28/immigration/index.html

[quote3c02375561]More than 500,000 people gathered in downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, and tens of thousands rallied in Phoenix and Milwaukee last week.[/quote3c02375561]

I don't know about you guys, but 500,000 is a crazy amount of people.


anyways, the other thing is that 2 weeks ago it was free HBO weekend, and they showed a movie called walkout. any1 else watch it?

I attended the one in Los Angeles. It was unreal, and very awesome. I'd do it again in a heart beat.


Warning to mods This thread might turn into a flame-fest.

P.S I watched the debate yesterday in the Senate live on C-SPAN. It ended nicely.

3 million protested in France today too. That's almost 5 percent of their population...

Nevermind i read it. Huge protests in France today.


But they should put armed guards on the board and shoot anything that mvoes within a mile of the border.

I'm personally.... Not on the side of the immigrants.

[quote8e4e1c9f98="andreliveson"]Whats the bill exactly? Huge protests in paris France.[/quote8e4e1c9f98]

The immigration protests are for a different cause than the protests in France.


The protests in the U.S. is against the 4437 bill[=http//www.nclr.org/content/news/detail/35482/]4437 bill.

Personally, I think Border Patrol should have been checking the green cards of all the protestors. There must have been tons of illegals in the crowd.

[quote963a12da03]We are first and foremost a nation of laws. The U.S. Constitution does not say that the paramount duty of government is to “Celebrate Diversity” or to “embrace multiculturalism” or to give “every willing worker” in the world a job. The Premable to the U.S. Constitution says the Constitution was established “to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.”

As our founding fathers recognized, fulfilling these fundamental duties is impossible without an orderly immigration and entrance system that discriminates in favor of those willing, as George Washington put it, to “get assimilated to our customs, measures, [and] laws.” - Michelle Malkin[/quote963a12da03]

We should secure the border, crack down on businesses that hire illegals, cut off government services to "undocumented workers," and refuse to allow people who entered this country illegally to benefit in any way from their criminal behavior. I hope the politicians in Washington have the guts to pass legislation to finally put and end to the mayhem.

It's such bullslilili. There's a reason it's called "illegal" immigration.

shrug I don't see what's wrong with it from that article, I mean obviously the NCLR is going to protest it. If immigrants want to work, become a citizen.

I think everyone should seriously check the facts before they even make comments. It's easy to say "yes, throw all the illegal and immigrants back from where they came from," mainly because they don't understand how it all works out.

Many people assume that illegals don't pay taxes, which is complete ignorance. There is a reason why the IRS came up with the ITIN. In addition, illegals pay billions in taxes.

Granted they are illegal, I completely agree that enforcement should be added to any bill that the president decides to sign, mainly because of such hell immigrants go through while they're here.

[quoteec057b6a34="stackmjwiz"]Personally, I think Border Patrol should have been checking the green cards of all the protestors. There must have been tons of illegals in the crowd.

[quoteec057b6a34]We are first and foremost a nation of laws. The U.S. Constitution does not say that the paramount duty of government is to “Celebrate Diversity” or to “embrace multiculturalism” or to give “every willing worker” in the world a job. The Premable to the U.S. Constitution says the Constitution was established “to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.”

As our founding fathers recognized, fulfilling these fundamental duties is impossible without an orderly immigration and entrance system that discriminates in favor of those willing, as George Washington put it, to “get assimilated to our customs, measures, [and] laws.” - Michelle Malkin[/quoteec057b6a34]

We should secure the border, crack down on businesses that hire illegals, cut off government services to "undocumented workers," and refuse to allow people who entered this country illegally to benefit in any way from their criminal behavior. I hope the politicians in Washington have the guts to pass legislation to finally put and end to the mayhem.

It's such bullslilili. There's a reason it's called "illegal" immigration.[/quoteec057b6a34]


Yeah dude im sure Bush feels the exact same way. Its just that its all POLITCAL BULLSHIT POWERED BY GREED AND CORRUPTION, MORE SO ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE HEHEHE. But this will be a major issue and im sure even though Bush wants to go at it full notch hes advisors will make him do a 1/2 job so the republicians still gets votes in the upcoming elections.

OBVIOUSLY A MORON COULD SEE THE CATCH HERE TO SWING THE VOTES SO IT DOESNT GO DEMOCRAT IS OH WILL START A WORKERS PROGRAM TO SHOW THE MEXICANS ARE APPRECIATED HERE IN AMERICA WHILE WE PUT UP A WALL TO PREVENT THEM COMING IN MY TEXAS.HEEEE HAW


Always catches in politics shock

[quotee44f867978="Veek"]I think everyone should seriously check the facts before they even make comments. It's easy to say "yes, throw all the illegal and immigrants back from where they came from," mainly because they don't understand how it all works out.

Many people assume that illegals don't pay taxes, which is complete ignorance. There is a reason why the IRS came up with the ITIN. In addition, illegals pay billions in taxes.

Granted they are illegal, I completely agree that enforcement should be added to any bill that the president decides to sign, mainly because of such hell immigrants go through while they're here.[/quotee44f867978]


Oh wait why dont we see it because democrats are using it for welface to pay for felipe and his 8 unwed children and poor inner city schooling roll

[quotee8dc20516f="andreliveson"][quotee8dc20516f="stackmjwiz"]Personally, I think Border Patrol should have been checking the green cards of all the protestors. There must have been tons of illegals in the crowd.

[quotee8dc20516f]We are first and foremost a nation of laws. The U.S. Constitution does not say that the paramount duty of government is to “Celebrate Diversity” or to “embrace multiculturalism” or to give “every willing worker” in the world a job. The Premable to the U.S. Constitution says the Constitution was established “to provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty.”

As our founding fathers recognized, fulfilling these fundamental duties is impossible without an orderly immigration and entrance system that discriminates in favor of those willing, as George Washington put it, to “get assimilated to our customs, measures, [and] laws.” - Michelle Malkin[/quotee8dc20516f]

We should secure the border, crack down on businesses that hire illegals, cut off government services to "undocumented workers," and refuse to allow people who entered this country illegally to benefit in any way from their criminal behavior. I hope the politicians in Washington have the guts to pass legislation to finally put and end to the mayhem.

It's such bullslilili. There's a reason it's called "illegal" immigration.[/quotee8dc20516f]


Yeah dude im sure Bush feels the exact same way. Its just that its all POLITCAL BULLSHIT POWERED BY GREED AND CORRUPTION, MORE SO ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE HEHEHE. But this will be a major issue and im sure even though Bush wants to go at it full notch hes advisors will make him do a 1/2 job so the republicians still gets votes in the upcoming elections.

OBVIOUSLY A MORON COULD SEE THE CATCH HERE TO SWING THE VOTES SO IT DOESNT GO DEMOCRAT IS OH WILL START A WORKERS PROGRAM TO SHOW THE MEXICANS ARE APPRECIATED HERE IN AMERICA WHILE WE PUT UP A WALL TO PREVENT THEM COMING IN MY TEXAS.HEEEE HAW


Always catches in politics shock[/quotee8dc20516f]
1) This isn't about Bush and which side people are on, we're discussing THIS issue. 2) Side bashing isn't going to get this anywhere.

My guess this is why the government doesn't want more immigrants. http//www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

[quote9d959c2ab1="andreliveson"][quote9d959c2ab1="Veek"]I think everyone should seriously check the facts before they even make comments. It's easy to say "yes, throw all the illegal and immigrants back from where they came from," mainly because they don't understand how it all works out.

Many people assume that illegals don't pay taxes, which is complete ignorance. There is a reason why the IRS came up with the ITIN. In addition, illegals pay billions in taxes.

Granted they are illegal, I completely agree that enforcement should be added to any bill that the president decides to sign, mainly because of such hell immigrants go through while they're here.[/quote9d959c2ab1]


Oh wait why dont we see it because democrats are using it for welface to pay for felipe and his 8 unwed children and poor inner city schooling roll[/quote9d959c2ab1]

Don't make an idiot out of yourself.

[quote0d8360eb9e]My guess this is why the government doesn't want more immigrants[/quote0d8360eb9e]

Just a small correction, "the government doesn't want any more (illegal) immigrants."

[quote5cf0848cf7="stackmjwiz"][quote5cf0848cf7]My guess this is why the government doesn't want more immigrants[/quote5cf0848cf7]

Just a small correction, "the government doesn't want any more (illegal) immigrants."[/quote5cf0848cf7]Sorry, my mistake. Good point. +KMA for keeping the wording straight.

[quotee21e1feeb7="johnjimjones"]
1) This isn't about Bush and which side people are on, we're discussing THIS issue.[/quotee21e1feeb7]

with some people, it always comes down to Bush

Check out this post by Neal Boortz

[quotebdb2f9a9d0]MORE FEEL-GOOD PROTESTS

Some 36,000 students...most of which probably wanted nothing more than to have the day off...skipped class and marched through downtown Los Angeles yesterday. Their cause? According to the mainstream media, they were protesting an immigration bill in Congress. How many of those 36,000 students do you suppose have read the immigration bill that has them so upset? Not many, I would guess.

Some were waving flags from Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala. That's nice. Perhaps if they like those countries so much, they'll do us all a favor and move back to them. Anyway, all of these kids skipped school..cut class. They broke the rules. What do you think will happen to them? Absolutely nothing. They'll be allowed right back to school without any penalty. And that goes hand in hand with the issue being debated. Do whatever you want without any consequences. The rule of law means nothing.

Listen to this quote from some moron named Sergio Aguirre "This is a country of immigrants, and this country would not be possible without us. We are the backbone, we work hard to get here and we work hard after we're here, but this bill is trying to take all that away." This is a classic case of someone talking about something they know nothing about. Aguirre is a legal immigrant. The bill being circulated in Congress only addresses illegal aliens.

One marcher said they deserved to not be treated like criminals. Fine...then don't be a criminal. If you're here legally, then you won't be treated like a criminal under the proposed legislation. If the children are our future, then we're in trouble. [/quotebdb2f9a9d0]

Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs

[quotecc98c2b4d6]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quotecc98c2b4d6]

Please, this thread is not about bashing immigrants....it's about the differences between "legal" and "illegal" immigration and how the USA can best address the problem of "illegal" immigration.

[quotefb0b0ec469="stackmjwiz"]Check out this post by Neal Boortz

[quotefb0b0ec469]MORE FEEL-GOOD PROTESTS

Some 36,000 students...most of which probably wanted nothing more than to have the day off...skipped class and marched through downtown Los Angeles yesterday. Their cause? According to the mainstream media, they were protesting an immigration bill in Congress. How many of those 36,000 students do you suppose have read the immigration bill that has them so upset? Not many, I would guess.

Some were waving flags from Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala. That's nice. Perhaps if they like those countries so much, they'll do us all a favor and move back to them. Anyway, all of these kids skipped school..cut class. They broke the rules. What do you think will happen to them? Absolutely nothing. They'll be allowed right back to school without any penalty. And that goes hand in hand with the issue being debated. Do whatever you want without any consequences. The rule of law means nothing.

Listen to this quote from some moron named Sergio Aguirre "This is a country of immigrants, and this country would not be possible without us. We are the backbone, we work hard to get here and we work hard after we're here, but this bill is trying to take all that away." This is a classic case of someone talking about something they know nothing about. Aguirre is a legal immigrant. The bill being circulated in Congress only addresses illegal aliens.

One marcher said they deserved to not be treated like criminals. Fine...then don't be a criminal. If you're here legally, then you won't be treated like a criminal under the proposed legislation. If the children are our future, then we're in trouble. [/quotefb0b0ec469][/quotefb0b0ec469]

I really hope you're not trying to make your points and coming up with your conclusions based on what you've read online.

[quotefb0b0ec469="stackmjwiz"]Please, this thread is not about bashing immigrants (I'm not going to address your points)...it's about the differences between "legal" and "illegal" immigration.[/quotefb0b0ec469]

That kid is trying to cause problems in a thread that seems to be starting off civilized. He reminds me of PokerNerdAA. Hint. Hint.

My school has been on a lockout ever since Friday x because of the protests. I was going to attend the one on L.A, but I overslept. They also cancelled my baseball game against bell because of the lockdowns (

[quote4d46e640a6="Veek"][quote4d46e640a6="stackmjwiz"]Check out this post by Neal Boortz

[quote4d46e640a6]MORE FEEL-GOOD PROTESTS

Some 36,000 students...most of which probably wanted nothing more than to have the day off...skipped class and marched through downtown Los Angeles yesterday. Their cause? According to the mainstream media, they were protesting an immigration bill in Congress. How many of those 36,000 students do you suppose have read the immigration bill that has them so upset? Not many, I would guess.

Some were waving flags from Mexico, El Salvador and Guatemala. That's nice. Perhaps if they like those countries so much, they'll do us all a favor and move back to them. Anyway, all of these kids skipped school..cut class. They broke the rules. What do you think will happen to them? Absolutely nothing. They'll be allowed right back to school without any penalty. And that goes hand in hand with the issue being debated. Do whatever you want without any consequences. The rule of law means nothing.

Listen to this quote from some moron named Sergio Aguirre "This is a country of immigrants, and this country would not be possible without us. We are the backbone, we work hard to get here and we work hard after we're here, but this bill is trying to take all that away." This is a classic case of someone talking about something they know nothing about. Aguirre is a legal immigrant. The bill being circulated in Congress only addresses illegal aliens.

One marcher said they deserved to not be treated like criminals. Fine...then don't be a criminal. If you're here legally, then you won't be treated like a criminal under the proposed legislation. If the children are our future, then we're in trouble. [/quote4d46e640a6][/quote4d46e640a6]

I really hope you're not trying to make your points and coming up with your conclusions based on what you've read online.

[quote4d46e640a6="stackmjwiz"]Please, this thread is not about bashing immigrants (I'm not going to address your points)...it's about the differences between "legal" and "illegal" immigration.[/quote4d46e640a6]

That kid is trying to cause problems in a thread that seems to be starting off civilized. He reminds me of PokerNerdAA. Hint. Hint.[/quote4d46e640a6]


Im talking valid points here that any conservative thinks and is the flat out truth. Not worried about being "political correct" or not trying to step on any toes. Haven't cursed or used put downs.

[quote2f43173044="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quote2f43173044]

You're one more post like this away from a 14 day temp-ban. If you can't have an intelligent conversation without insulting people don't participate.

What are you talking about so Illegal Immigrants Dont do this?

Isn't this the reason why they want to keep them out?

[quote5f8884d32d]I really hope you're not trying to make your points and coming up with your conclusions based on what you've read online.[/quote5f8884d32d]

Because I bring up some quotes or pieces in presenting my opinion, does not mean that I came up with my "conclusions based on what I've read online". This is an issue that I am very concerned about, I've followed it closely for about 5 years now.

I know damn well what my position is, mind you

1. Secure the border (more funding for Border Patrol, build a wall, etc.)
2. Make being an illegal immigrant or knowingly hiring one a felony
3. Cut off govt. services to illegals (schooling, health care, etc.)
4. Expedite the legal immigration process to allow more legal immigrants into the country in a more timely manner.
5. Expedite the deportation process to get caught illegals out of the country as quickly as possible.

[quote13e84e14f5="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quote13e84e14f5]

WOW. Where do you live? Oh wait Florida. Here in Houston I see the real side of it. My father hires day laborers a lot and most are good people. They don't bring disease or drugs and the crime rate increase is debatable. And most importantly of all they DO NOT cost americans jobs. Infact they take the jobs we don't want. Illegal immigrants are a GREAT thing for our economy, and is in no way costing anyone jobs.

[quote7321e196be="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quote7321e196be]

I haven't read the rest of this thread, but now I'll address your ignorance - immigrant laborers (the guys you see on the side of the roads in the morning) do the jobs that no one else wants to do. They get paid shit money and work in shitty conditions. There's not a single bit of legitimate and researched proof that illegal immigrants take American jobs (that Americans want to do). If you can point me to a peer-reviewed study that says otherwise, I'll give you 1 Karma point a day forever. If there was ever a better time for them to have better representation and not be discriminated against, I can't think of it.

Now, having been a part of, and having been through a lot of work stoppages and walkouts because of Unions, I can unequivocally say unions have served their purpose in the US. The conditions are not the same in the US as they were when Unions were created and more often than not the Union leaders are the one's benefitting from Union dues and membership, not the Union members.

[quotec986020fad="Allen626"][quotec986020fad="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quotec986020fad]

WOW. Where do you live? Oh wait Florida. Here in Houston I see the real side of it. My father hires day laborers a lot and most are good people. They don't bring disease or drugs and the crime rate increase is debatable. And most importantly of all they DO NOT cost americans jobs. Infact they take the jobs we don't want. Illegal immigrants are a GREAT thing for our economy, and is in no way costing anyone jobs.[/quotec986020fad]

Why dont americans want them because they pay so poor, these companies know they can get illegals working for them for dirt pay, why would they want to pay americans decent wages.

Wow, so they aren't a drain on our economy paying for their healthcare and welfare?

[quote2ebd22e3fd="andreliveson"]Wow, so they aren't a drain on our economy paying for their healthcare and welfare?[/quote2ebd22e3fd]

Not be a total dick - but get a clue.

Immigrant laborers are paid cash at the end of the day or work period. They're not employees, so there's no healthcare drain.

please don't crap my thread with Bush bashing, it's down to the senate now, and eventually it'll have to pass through the house, and then be approved by Bush. but for now, let's not include Bush.(i know any thread with bush in it gets pretty much locked and flamed) please and thank you! D

The argument that some, including the President have taken is that these illegal immigrants will "do jobs that Americans will not do".

This is simply a myth.

It is pretty clear that the premium to get Americans (or legal immigrants on track to become Americans) to do such jobs isn't all that great; whatever general price rise that accompanies it will probably be offset by reduction in welfare and unemployment expenses for the Americans who go back to work at the slightly higher pay. We also don't need to import more poverty into our country. The result is that local schools, hospitals and housing are stressted. It also feeds social tensions.

[quotef29d18d015]The President says his guest worker program would "match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs." But at some higher wage, there would be willing Americans. The number of native high school dropouts with jobs declined by 1.3 million from 2000 to 2005, estimates Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors less immigration. Some lost jobs to immigrants. (Via Washington Post)
[/quotef29d18d015]
The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 5% percent of the labor force. They're drawn here by wage differences, not labor "shortages."

Post by the above dude...
http//www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalrelease.html

Polls
http//www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchd74c


Look at the data are a drain to the economy even if they do pay taxes the increase in poverty, there schooling, who do you think pays their medical bills.? Americans

[quote61484d4d08="stackmjwiz"]The argument that some, including the President have taken is that these illegal immigrants will "do jobs that Americans will not do".

This is simply a myth.

It is pretty clear that the premium to get Americans (or legal immigrants on track to become Americans) to do such jobs isn't all that great; whatever general price rise that accompanies it will probably be offset by reduction in welfare and unemployment expenses for the Americans who go back to work at the slightly higher pay. We also don't need to import more poverty into our country. The result is that local schools, hospitals and housing are stressted. It also feeds social tensions.

[quote61484d4d08]The President says his guest worker program would "match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs." But at some higher wage, there would be willing Americans. The number of native high school dropouts with jobs declined by 1.3 million from 2000 to 2005, estimates Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors less immigration. Some lost jobs to immigrants. (Via Washington Post)
[/quote61484d4d08]
The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 5% percent of the labor force. They're drawn here by wage differences, not labor "shortages."[/quote61484d4d08]


Thank you someone who sees the negative impact of illegal immigrants , do we really need more poverty into this country?
KARMA +

If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. These people work hard and just want a better life. 100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...

I still dont see how people are having sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants.


COME ON, WHERE IS THIS NATION GOING?

[quote3a749ca9d7="andreliveson"]I still dont see how people are having sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants.


COME ON, WHERE IS THIS NATION GOING?[/quote3a749ca9d7]
STFU. This country was built on immigration, legal and illegal. I'm not saying open the boarders but they are better solutions than what is being purposed. Illegal immigrants help sustain this county's economy and are usually incredibly hard working. Harder working than a lot of Americans and they get paid a fraction of what they should get...

[quote21bac9a411="Wolfeman"]If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. These people work hard and just want a better life. 100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...[/quote21bac9a411]


Right are American Economy and Society would just COLLASPE if all ILLEGALS just got up and left. Come on get real, we can survive hurricanes, wtc bombings, etc sure it went down a little but it went right back up after a while. Are economy would not collapse were much stronger then that.

Even if it did collapse, Mexico would be right there to help us out

Im sure all of us would feel a lot more secure and safer. roll

[quoted395950434="Wolfeman"][quoted395950434="andreliveson"]I still dont see how people are having sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants.


COME ON, WHERE IS THIS NATION GOING?[/quoted395950434]
STFU. This country was built on immigration, legal and illegal. I'm not saying open the boarders but they are better solutions than what is being purposed. Illegal immigrants help sustain this county's economy and are usually incredibly hard working. Harder working than a lot of Americans and they get paid a fraction of what they should get...[/quoted395950434]


This discussion will never end with the points that you bring up, that was over 400 years ago, we brung over illegal slaves to work for us then too, should we still do that NO. Stuff changes.


Just look at the overall picture.

I was going to enter this debate, but everyone seems to be addressing andre's points, which are literally the most ignorant things I've read all day.

I hope this doesn't get me banned; I'm not insulting him and I'm saying what most people would agree is true. shrug

[quote6f480dcaa4="andreliveson"][quote6f480dcaa4="Wolfeman"]If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. These people work hard and just want a better life. 100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...[/quote6f480dcaa4]


Right are American Economy and Society would just COLLASPE if all ILLEGALS just got up and left. Come on get real, we can survive hurricanes, wtc bombings, etc sure it went down a little but it went right back up after a while. Are economy would not collapse were much stronger then that.

Even if it did collapse, Mexico would be right there to help us out

Im sure all of us would feel a lot more secure and safer. roll[/quote6f480dcaa4]
You know this how? We'd seriously be in a huge problem if all the illegals left. They provide a lot of labor and basically support our agricultral economy. This whole thing comes down to racism more than immigration.

And by the way, I have a BA in Economics from a top school so don't try to talk economics with me unless you can back it up...

[quote1e95f1037e]If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. [/quote1e95f1037e]

Currently, we are targeting how to slow down the problem of the 7,000 or so illegals that cross our borders each day and reform the immigration process. The House has not proposed anything that says we will round up and deport the 12 million illegals currently residing in the U.S.

[quote1e95f1037e]These people work hard and just want a better life. [/quote1e95f1037e]

And that is a rationale for breaking the law? There are countless people that want to come into this country. There's a right way about doing it.

[quote1e95f1037e]
100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...[/quote1e95f1037e]

Playing the race card won't work...

[quote84068a3394="andreliveson"][quote84068a3394="Wolfeman"][quote84068a3394="andreliveson"]I still dont see how people are having sympathy for ILLEGAL immigrants.


COME ON, WHERE IS THIS NATION GOING?[/quote84068a3394]
STFU. This country was built on immigration, legal and illegal. I'm not saying open the boarders but they are better solutions than what is being purposed. Illegal immigrants help sustain this county's economy and are usually incredibly hard working. Harder working than a lot of Americans and they get paid a fraction of what they should get...[/quote84068a3394]


This discussion will never end with the points that you bring up, that was over 400 years ago, we brung over illegal slaves to work for us then too, should we still do that NO. Stuff changes.


Just look at the overall picture.[/quote84068a3394]
400 years ago? How about the early 1900s? Irish and Italians were a drain on society and they were all criminals and taking jobs awya from Americans. I don't see a lot of Americans applying to pick strawberries or work their ass off all day building someone's deck for $40...

[quoted2dc307b0b="stackmjwiz"][quoted2dc307b0b]I really hope you're not trying to make your points and coming up with your conclusions based on what you've read online.[/quoted2dc307b0b]
1. Secure the border (more funding for Border Patrol, build a wall, etc.)
2. Make being an illegal immigrant or knowingly hiring one a felony
3. Cut off govt. services to illegals (schooling, health care, etc.)
4. Expedite the legal immigration process to allow more legal immigrants into the country in a more timely manner.
5. Expedite the deportation process to get caught illegals out of the country as quickly as possible.

----------------------

The argument that some, including the President have taken is that these illegal immigrants will "do jobs that Americans will not do".

[bd2dc307b0b]This is simply a myth.[/bd2dc307b0b]

[/quoted2dc307b0b]

Really? Sen. Feinstein from California mentioned how she urged campaigns to put up signs stating that any American was welcome to go replace an illegal immigrant in the crops, and construction. And I quote, "Not one person ever showed up."

And what do you plan to do with the 12 million illegals in the country? What about the education of their children, seperation of legal born U.S. citizens children. How do you deal with seperating them from their parents?

You're stating what you want to happen, not mainly based on the real reality. It took years for 12 million people to come into the U.S. illegaly, they will not "go away" over night. I understand you're against illegal immigration, but you also have to think about the side facts. Have you thought about the consequences?

[quote5b332cc6dd="stackmjwiz"][quote5b332cc6dd]If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. [/quote5b332cc6dd]

Currently, we are targeting how to slow down the problem of the 7,000 or so illegals that cross our borders each day and reform the immigration process. The House has not proposed anything that says we will round up and deport the 12 million illegals currently residing in the U.S.

[quote5b332cc6dd]These people work hard and just want a better life. [/quote5b332cc6dd]

And that is a rationale for breaking the law? There are countless people that want to come into this country. There's a right way about doing it.

[quote5b332cc6dd]
100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...[/quote5b332cc6dd]

Playing the race card won't work...[/quote5b332cc6dd]
Its all about race. People don't like these people because they are Mexican. Its not like stopping illegal immigration is going help keep Al Qaeda out roll

I'm not opposed to the illegal immigrants that are already here. They're here and nearly impossible to take them all out anyways. I'm addressing a policy that stops more from coming / harder to come here illegally. There's a legalization process for a reason and can go through that process if they really want to work in the USA. I don't think the illegal immigrants should leave because of the economic factor. I don't even know where to address andreliveson's comments other than he should stay out of this thread or just never post again.

The Irish and the Italians all came into the country LEGALLY through Ellis Island.

[quotebf4f03b938="Wolfeman"][quotebf4f03b938="andreliveson"][quotebf4f03b938="Wolfeman"]If all the illegals left tomorrow our economy would colapse. These people work hard and just want a better life. 100 years ago people were saying the same thing about the Irish and Italians coming to the country...[/quotebf4f03b938]


Right are American Economy and Society would just COLLASPE if all ILLEGALS just got up and left. Come on get real, we can survive hurricanes, wtc bombings, etc sure it went down a little but it went right back up after a while. Are economy would not collapse were much stronger then that.

Even if it did collapse, Mexico would be right there to help us out

Im sure all of us would feel a lot more secure and safer. roll[/quotebf4f03b938]
You know this how? We'd seriously be in a huge problem if all the illegals left. They provide a lot of labor and basically support our agricultral economy. This whole thing comes down to racism more than immigration.

And by the way, I have a BA in Economics from a top school so don't try to talk economics with me unless you can back it up...[/quotebf4f03b938]

Supporting Illegal Immigration

Your not with the majority of America's population. So im an idiot? Tell me to STFU, come on get real dude. Go spread the liberal bias soemwhere else.


I really hate to see society in about 50 years, you wont even begin to imagine how bad itll be.

SUPPORT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS...HAHAHA


Thats the thing with[bbf4f03b938] liberals are for the minorities, not the OVERALL AMERICAN PUBLIC[/sizebf4f03b938][/bbf4f03b938]. The Real americans who work hard to pay taxes, for their schooling, try to raise their kids right. They shouldn't have to worry about paying for some dudes welface check. Oh no hes trying to work so hard for his paycheck and to feed his family awww how sad, what about Americans who get up everyday from 8-5 to see a society were prisons are better equiped then schools.


Lets bring more illegals what was i thinking.

[quote5f037e9a39="johnjimjones"]I'm not opposed to the illegal immigrants that are already here. They're here and nearly impossible to take them all out anyways. I'm addressing a policy that stops more from coming / harder to come here illegally. There's a legalization process for a reason and can go through that process if they really want to work in the USA. I don't think the illegal immigrants should leave because of the economic factor. I don't even know where to address andreliveson's comments other than he should stay out of this thread or just never post again.[/quote5f037e9a39]

Exactly! I completely agree that there should be even more enforcement along the border, mainly because of the struggle they will go through, and of course the legal and illegal factor. Addionally, why would you want to criminalize millions of immigrants who are clearly only here to work and educate themselves. They are under paid, and still pay their damn taxes. It's not a question of "taking advantage" because many don't even try to visit hospitals mainly in fear of being asked for legal documentation.

[quoteede0f4d0a3="Allen626"][quoteede0f4d0a3="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quoteede0f4d0a3]

WOW. Where do you live? Oh wait Florida. Here in Houston I see the real side of it. My father hires day laborers a lot and most are good people. They don't bring disease or drugs and the crime rate increase is debatable. And most importantly of all they DO NOT cost americans jobs. Infact they take the jobs we don't want. Illegal immigrants are a GREAT thing for our economy, and is in no way costing anyone jobs.[/quoteede0f4d0a3]

The crime rate is _not_ debateable. 30% of prisoners in federal prisons are ILLEGAL immigrants - way higher than actual percentage of population. How can you say no one wants the jobs when approx 75% of construction workers are American citizens. And hat tip to NR for linking to http//www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blackmen.html?ei=5089&en=77e0d1d7ebcbc189&ex=1300510800&adxnnl=1&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss&adxnnlx=1142881426-ZXxpT6jpPEFjM4dMr1QoHg which points out that half of black men in their 20s are unemployed. Tell me they don't want to work?

[quote4f06c13326="Veek"][quote4f06c13326="johnjimjones"]I'm not opposed to the illegal immigrants that are already here. They're here and nearly impossible to take them all out anyways. I'm addressing a policy that stops more from coming / harder to come here illegally. There's a legalization process for a reason and can go through that process if they really want to work in the USA. I don't think the illegal immigrants should leave because of the economic factor. I don't even know where to address andreliveson's comments other than he should stay out of this thread or just never post again.[/quote4f06c13326]

Exactly! I completely agree that there should be even more enforcement along the border, mainly because of the struggle they will go through, and of course the legal and illegal factor. Addionally, why would you want to criminalize millions of immigrants who are clearly only here to work and educate themselves. They are under paid, and still pay their damn taxes. It's not a question of "taking advantage" because many don't even try to visit hospitals mainly in fear of being asked for legal documentation.[/quote4f06c13326]

Please tell me how they pay taxes if they are illegal, do they have a social security number? These illegals are paid under the table.

has anyone here seen the movie walkout though? it's on HBO. please go watch it if you haven't, you'll understand what's going on more by 5 fold.

i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b31588c73d6]Secure our borders![/b31588c73d6] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.

[quoteb77094afa2="andreliveson"][quoteb77094afa2="Veek"][quoteb77094afa2="johnjimjones"]I'm not opposed to the illegal immigrants that are already here. They're here and nearly impossible to take them all out anyways. I'm addressing a policy that stops more from coming / harder to come here illegally. There's a legalization process for a reason and can go through that process if they really want to work in the USA. I don't think the illegal immigrants should leave because of the economic factor. I don't even know where to address andreliveson's comments other than he should stay out of this thread or just never post again.[/quoteb77094afa2]

Exactly! I completely agree that there should be even more enforcement along the border, mainly because of the struggle they will go through, and of course the legal and illegal factor. Addionally, why would you want to criminalize millions of immigrants who are clearly only here to work and educate themselves. They are under paid, and still pay their damn taxes. It's not a question of "taking advantage" because many don't even try to visit hospitals mainly in fear of being asked for legal documentation.[/quoteb77094afa2]

Please tell me how they pay taxes if they are illegal, do they have a social security number? These illegals are paid under the table.[/quoteb77094afa2]

You really need to learn your shit before you open your hole. Any of them.[=http//www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html#what]You really need to learn your shit before you open your hole. Any of them.

What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.
IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).
[bb77094afa2]ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.[/bb77094afa2] Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

[quote47c44978ec="Veek"][quote47c44978ec="andreliveson"][quote47c44978ec="Veek"][quote47c44978ec="johnjimjones"]I'm not opposed to the illegal immigrants that are already here. They're here and nearly impossible to take them all out anyways. I'm addressing a policy that stops more from coming / harder to come here illegally. There's a legalization process for a reason and can go through that process if they really want to work in the USA. I don't think the illegal immigrants should leave because of the economic factor. I don't even know where to address andreliveson's comments other than he should stay out of this thread or just never post again.[/quote47c44978ec]

Exactly! I completely agree that there should be even more enforcement along the border, mainly because of the struggle they will go through, and of course the legal and illegal factor. Addionally, why would you want to criminalize millions of immigrants who are clearly only here to work and educate themselves. They are under paid, and still pay their damn taxes. It's not a question of "taking advantage" because many don't even try to visit hospitals mainly in fear of being asked for legal documentation.[/quote47c44978ec]

Please tell me how they pay taxes if they are illegal, do they have a social security number? These illegals are paid under the table.[/quote47c44978ec]

You really need to learn your shit before you open your hole. Any of them.[=http//www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=96287,00.html#what]You really need to learn your shit before you open your hole. Any of them.[/quote47c44978ec]

Start the bashign on me? Shut my hole?

From Hollywood, California Enuff Said

[quote99d26e69c8]Its all about race. People don't like these people because they are Mexican. Its not like stopping illegal immigration is going help keep Al Qaeda out [/quote99d26e69c8]

Some people will try to stir up the emotions of the masses by making this a racial issue.

However, the issue is about the rule of law, it's about security, it's about accountability.

[quote99d26e69c8]A key al-Qaeda operative seized in Pakistan recently offered an alarming account of the group's potential plans to target the U.S. with weapons of mass destruction, senior U.S. security officials tell TIME. Sharif al-Masri, an Egyptian who was captured in late August near Pakistan's border with Iran and Afghanistan, has told his interrogators of "al-Qaeda's interest in moving nuclear materials from Europe to either the U.S. or Mexico," according to a report circulating among U.S. government officials.

Masri also said al-Qaeda has considered plans to "smuggle nuclear materials to Mexico, then operatives would carry material into the U.S.," (Via Time Magazine)

US-Mexican border as a terror risk
http//www.csmonitor.com/2005/0322/p01s01-uspo.html

'Dirty Bombs' Crossed U.S. Borders in Test
http//www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/27/D8GK83AG6.html

Last year, an al-Qaida operative who was on the FBI's terrorist watch list was captured near the Mexican border.[/quote99d26e69c8]

I find it very disturbing to have to explain to someone who thinks that this illegal immigration issue has nothing to do with the security and wellbeing of American citizens.

When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...

[quote81fda8b4e9="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b81fda8b4e9]Secure our borders![/b81fda8b4e9] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote81fda8b4e9]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )

[quote401f6488c2="andreliveson"][quote401f6488c2="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b401f6488c2]Secure our borders![/b401f6488c2] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote401f6488c2]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quote401f6488c2]

In this thread, you've already lost.

stackmjwiz, I agree about the enforcement. I've already mentioned that. Now we're jumping around. What about the 12 million already here?

[quote83d1e0f0c9="andreliveson"][quote83d1e0f0c9="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b83d1e0f0c9]Secure our borders![/b83d1e0f0c9] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote83d1e0f0c9]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quote83d1e0f0c9]
Scarface was an illegal immigrant...

[quote25551872a6="andreliveson"][quote25551872a6="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b25551872a6]Secure our borders![/b25551872a6] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote25551872a6]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quote25551872a6]
Way to spell moron. Don't talk at all if you're just going to throw out statements that you can't support or state anything that doesn't show a hint of intelligence.

[quote3f2ceff32f="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote3f2ceff32f]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [b3f2ceff32f]safe[/b3f2ceff32f].

[quote7eac4b4f40="h3x"][quote7eac4b4f40="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote7eac4b4f40]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberal hippies who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [b7eac4b4f40]safe[/b7eac4b4f40].[/quote7eac4b4f40]

These are the people that should be tried as criminals!

[quote434d2f7d89="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote434d2f7d89]

Its always RACISM RASICM RACISM


How can you account for all these cold hard facts? Oh its their schooling , their poor etc. We continue to dump more money into projects and look whats it done absolutely nothing. Ands its always racism. Lets not get into oh they sell crack because thats all they do or oh they cant get a job. Come on who wants to higher a convicted 22 year old felon. This goes for any race.

I seriously dont even see America being ever united? When has there not been this so called "racism"


Have we not opened up enough colleges, donated enough money to other poor lower class is it really helping?

Then if you give the same benefits or open a "Caucasian" College it would be racist.


Face it there will never BE EQUALITY EVER. JUST LOOK AROUND THE WORLD.

I agree, the coyotes need to be tried as criminals. But in order to completely resolve this issue, we need to build a secure border along the Mexican border and get the National Guard close to the borders to defend the border. We need to do [ba78525e85a]something[/ba78525e85a] instead of nothing.

[quote592593d85e="johnjimjones"][quote592593d85e="andreliveson"][quote592593d85e="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b592593d85e]Secure our borders![/b592593d85e] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote592593d85e]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quote592593d85e]
Way to spell moron. Don't talk at all if you're just going to throw out statements that you can't support or state anything that doesn't show a hint of intelligence.[/quote592593d85e]




Look at the links ive posted.

[quoted1b0012495="h3x"][quoted1b0012495="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quoted1b0012495]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [bd1b0012495]safe[/bd1b0012495].[/quoted1b0012495]
All the 9/11 terrorists were here on legal student visas. If terrorists want in, they'll find a way. They'll come from Canda like they've already tried...

[quoteaa2ecfed44="Veek"][quoteaa2ecfed44="andreliveson"][quoteaa2ecfed44="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[baa2ecfed44]Secure our borders![/baa2ecfed44] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quoteaa2ecfed44]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quoteaa2ecfed44]

In this thread, you've already lost.

stackmjwiz, I agree about the enforcement. I've already mentioned that. Now we're jumping around. What about the 12 million already here?[/quoteaa2ecfed44]


No actually you have, the majority of American public want more border control and illegal immigrants out.


Thanks though

[quote45612b36c6="Wolfeman"][quote45612b36c6="h3x"][quote45612b36c6="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote45612b36c6]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [b45612b36c6]safe[/b45612b36c6].[/quote45612b36c6]
All the 9/11 terrorists were here on legal student visas. If terrorists want in, they'll find a way. They'll come from Canda like they've already tried...[/quote45612b36c6]

Why give them even EASIER ways.


This is very interesting are you for gun control?

[quote01e319c1b4="Wolfeman"][quote01e319c1b4="h3x"][quote01e319c1b4="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote01e319c1b4]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [b01e319c1b4]safe[/b01e319c1b4].[/quote01e319c1b4]
All the 9/11 terrorists were here on legal student visas. If terrorists want in, they'll find a way. They'll come from Canda like they've already tried...[/quote01e319c1b4]

I realize they have more than one way of getting into the country.. But the mexican border is by far the easiest way to get in.. I know I will be called a racist for this, but [b01e319c1b4]some[/b01e319c1b4] arabs do look a lot like Mexicans in appearance, and if they were caught; they could simply not speak and carry no identification whatsoever and will end up being sent back to Mexico where they can try again and jump the border. We need to secure the southern borders because they are the most vulnerable spot in the defense of the homeland.

[quoteb7e59ae0a4="h3x"][quoteb7e59ae0a4="Wolfeman"][quoteb7e59ae0a4="h3x"][quoteb7e59ae0a4="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quoteb7e59ae0a4]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [bb7e59ae0a4]safe[/bb7e59ae0a4].[/quoteb7e59ae0a4]
All the 9/11 terrorists were here on legal student visas. If terrorists want in, they'll find a way. They'll come from Canda like they've already tried...[/quoteb7e59ae0a4]

I realize they have more than one way of getting into the country.. But the mexican border is by far the easiest way to get in.. I know I will be called a racist for this, but [bb7e59ae0a4]some[/bb7e59ae0a4] arabs do look a lot like Mexicans in appearance, and if they were caught; they could simply not speak and carry no identification whatsoever and will end up being sent back to Mexico where they can try again and jump the border. We need to secure the southern borders because they are the most vulnerable spot in the defense of the homeland.[/quoteb7e59ae0a4]
You're in Alaska now, what do you care lol CLEARLY JUST KIDDING

The one time I can remember them catching terrorists at the border was in WA coming from Canada...

[quote44173c02c3="Wolfeman"][quote44173c02c3="andreliveson"][quote44173c02c3="h3x"]i only have one thing to say about the walkouts... far-left liberal douchebags.

[b44173c02c3]Secure our borders![/b44173c02c3] Even if it takes building a concrete wall on every inch of the border. Get it done.[/quote44173c02c3]


Thank you, im not fighting a loosing battle here )[/quote44173c02c3]
Scarface was an illegal immigrant...[/quote44173c02c3]


Scarface was a movie not reality. If this was the case then it shows that illegal immigrants do not help society. My point would be validated wink


But scarface was a movie

[quote3ec6f7ea91]I realize they have more than one way of getting into the country.. But the mexican border is by far the easiest way to get in.. I know I will be called a racist for this, but some arabs do look a lot like Mexicans in appearance, and if they were caught; they could simply not speak and carry no identification whatsoever and will end up being sent back to Mexico where they can try again and jump the border. [/quote3ec6f7ea91]

They almost always get sent back because our resources, personnel are so limited. Usually though, they will be 1 out of the 7,000 that make it into the country illegally each day.

[quote3ec6f7ea91]We need to secure the southern borders because they are the most vulnerable spot in the defense of the homeland.[/quote3ec6f7ea91]

Agreed. I don't know the stone cold statistics of how much we've spent on aviation security, but I know it's a LOT more than what we've dedicated to Border Patrol.

[quote74d41942a2="johnjimjones"][quote74d41942a2="h3x"][quote74d41942a2="Wolfeman"][quote74d41942a2="h3x"][quote74d41942a2="Wolfeman"]When the civil rights movement was going on the majoring the majority of Americans didn't support that. Does that mean it was wrong? The majority of Americans are very short sighted and don't necisarlly do the right thing.

And the crime thing is true but the majority of criminals are poor so don't you think that has more to do with it? What that article is really about is black men being prone to crime so should we can them out with all the Mexicans? This whole thing comes down to racism, plain and simple...[/quote74d41942a2]

It does not come down to racism whatsoever.. Only a liberal mind will come to that conclusion. It's about securing our borders and keeping terrorists out.. There was a Dateline exclusive about the 'Coyotes' (people who bring in illegals into our homeland. They told Dateline that they are getting paid up to $10,000 a head just to bring in arabs across the border and aren't bothering with the illegals).. Liberals who want to let all the illegal aliens into our country are indirectly wanting the terrorists to come in and form even more sleeper cells than there are at this very moment. It's about keeping America [b74d41942a2]safe[/b74d41942a2].[/quote74d41942a2]
All the 9/11 terrorists were here on legal student visas. If terrorists want in, they'll find a way. They'll come from Canda like they've already tried...[/quote74d41942a2]

I realize they have more than one way of getting into the country.. But the mexican border is by far the easiest way to get in.. I know I will be called a racist for this, but [b74d41942a2]some[/b74d41942a2] arabs do look a lot like Mexicans in appearance, and if they were caught; they could simply not speak and carry no identification whatsoever and will end up being sent back to Mexico where they can try again and jump the border. We need to secure the southern borders because they are the most vulnerable spot in the defense of the homeland.[/quote74d41942a2]
You're in Alaska now, what do you care lol CLEARLY JUST KIDDING[/quote74d41942a2]

While Alaskans are more patriotic to Alaska than the U.S., I am a native Washingtonian living abroad and take homeland issues to heart. I have great respect for you JJJ for taking from what I said in its true content. K+

[quote234b153cf2]The one time I can remember them catching terrorists at the border was in WA coming from Canada...[/quote234b153cf2]

We caught an Al Qaeda operative last year near the Texas border, he had camped out just 60 miles from the U.S. border for a long period of time...got caught coming in.

Show me that story...

[quote1f18e7ea03="Wolfeman"]The one time I can remember them catching terrorists at the border was in WA coming from Canada...[/quote1f18e7ea03]


http//www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47914

Links to right wing blogs don't count...

[b8c818f23ea][i8c818f23ea][u8c818f23ea]SO BACK ON TOPIC[/u8c818f23ea][/i8c818f23ea][/b8c818f23ea]

has anyone seen the movie WALKOUT on HBO!?!?!?!?!??!?! twisted twisted twisted

Watch this bill not even go through...

were too concerned with other countries...

Really sad isn't it that we have to protect other countries before we protect ours.

http//www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/000989.html

http//www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1525711/posts

al-Qaeda Operative Enlisting Help Of Violent El Salvador Gang Leader
http//www.washtimes.com/national/20040928-123346-3928r.htm

http//kvoa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2172749

[quote075842f9c6]“Several al-Qaeda leaders believe operatives can pay their way into the country through Mexico and also believe illegal entry is more advantageous than legal entry for operational security reasons,” Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security Admiral James Loy testified on February 16 before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. “At home, we must prepare ourselves for any attack, from IEDs (improvised explosive devices) to Weapons of Mass Destruction…from soft targets like malls to national icons.” Loy is hardly a lone voice.

“Al-Qaeda is intent on finding ways to circumvent U.S. security enhancements to strike Americans and the homeland,” CIA director Porter Goss told the committee, adding “it may be only a matter of time before al-Qaeda or another group attempts to use chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear weapons.”

“We really don’t know who comes into this country illegally over the Southwest border,” said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-CA. “This is a big problem.”[/quote075842f9c6]

[quote4caf8b84a9]“We really don’t know who comes into this country illegally over the Southwest border,” said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-CA. “This is a big problem.”[/quote4caf8b84a9]

It is more than a big problem... It's a catastrophe. There are already sleeper cells here on the homeland, just waiting for the right moment to strike..

[quote2e36eaaa2b="Veek"][quote2e36eaaa2b="stackmjwiz"][quote2e36eaaa2b]I really hope you're not trying to make your points and coming up with your conclusions based on what you've read online.[/quote2e36eaaa2b]
1. Secure the border (more funding for Border Patrol, build a wall, etc.)
2. Make being an illegal immigrant or knowingly hiring one a felony
3. Cut off govt. services to illegals (schooling, health care, etc.)
4. Expedite the legal immigration process to allow more legal immigrants into the country in a more timely manner.
5. Expedite the deportation process to get caught illegals out of the country as quickly as possible.

----------------------

The argument that some, including the President have taken is that these illegal immigrants will "do jobs that Americans will not do".

[b2e36eaaa2b]This is simply a myth.[/b2e36eaaa2b]

[/quote2e36eaaa2b]

Really? [b2e36eaaa2b]Sen. Feinstein [/b2e36eaaa2b]from California mentioned how she urged campaigns to put up signs stating that any American was welcome to go replace an illegal immigrant in the crops, and construction. And I quote, "Not one person ever showed up."

And what do you plan to do with the 12 million illegals in the country? What about the education of their children, seperation of legal born U.S. citizens children. How do you deal with seperating them from their parents?

You're stating what you want to happen, not mainly based on the real reality. It took years for 12 million people to come into the U.S. illegaly, they will not "go away" over night. I understand you're against illegal immigration, but you also have to think about the side facts. Have you thought about the consequences?[/quote2e36eaaa2b]

[b2e36eaaa2b]Sen. Feinstein

Liberal

California[/b2e36eaaa2b]


She gets OWNED

http//newsbusters.org/node/4651

Come on dude a liberal im sure she went to all her ways to get people to apply for a job hahahaha get serious.


x

So does anyone actually know if this bill is gonna be passed?

Or it another shot in the wind that a few supporters are bringing up, haven't really looking into who was supporting it.

I just dont see America putting in billions of dollars on a wall even thought its an awesome idea.

We all know its about political ties and greed.

Will it pass in the house into congress?

We need a good right-minded republican president in '08..

I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all, but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.

[quotebcb185ac78]I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all, but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.[/quotebcb185ac78]

It's not about his hispanic ties, it's about politics. He's trying to balance himself to satisfy both the people who want strict enforcement and also his constituents who don't want enforcement (for business reasons or political).

It's the same for both Democrats and Republicans.

Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?

Let's get back on topic or shut the thread.

[quote51cb655298="h3x"]We need a good right-minded republican president in '08..

I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all, but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.[/quote51cb655298]
Considering he is a retard I'd agree. If by "right-minded" you mean more right I don't know if thats possible unless we elect Jesus or the Pope...

[quotef293262d66="stackmjwiz"][quotef293262d66]I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all, but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.[/quotef293262d66]

It's not about his hispanic ties, it's about politics.[/quotef293262d66]

His brother married an illegal alien. To keep illegal aliens out of our country is a slap in his sister-in-laws face.

This is my opinion of course.. I'm not basing this on fact (except about Jeb marrying an illegal alien, [bf293262d66]that is fact[/bf293262d66].)

Naw Bush is right winged he just doesn't stand firm on his views and gives in to a lot of stuff.


Politics.

[quote51d4fd5661="andreliveson"]Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?[/quote51d4fd5661]You're 20? wow you must have slipped and hit a zero when you were entering that.

http//www.foxnews.com/


IF you go to the oreily to of the page to where it says most watched "o reily's talking points" it will show him debating with a pro-immgrant activist about this whole thing.

Fox news is garbage...

[quote428ab369b6="johnjimjones"][quote428ab369b6="andreliveson"]Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?[/quote428ab369b6]You're 20? wow you must have slipped and hit a zero when you were entering that.[/quote428ab369b6]


Im done with you, ive already owned your statements.




Thanks!


arrow

[quoteebb35e73b1="andreliveson"][quoteebb35e73b1="johnjimjones"][quoteebb35e73b1="andreliveson"]Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?[/quoteebb35e73b1]You're 20? wow you must have slipped and hit a zero when you were entering that.[/quoteebb35e73b1]


Im done with you, ive already owned your statements.




Thanks!


arrow[/quoteebb35e73b1]
Owned my statements? Yeah with the ones [bebb35e73b1]I[/bebb35e73b1] posted. You're such a joke.

[quote0d385a2804="johnjimjones"][quote0d385a2804="andreliveson"][quote0d385a2804="johnjimjones"][quote0d385a2804="andreliveson"]Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?[/quote0d385a2804]You're 20? wow you must have slipped and hit a zero when you were entering that.[/quote0d385a2804]


Im done with you, i've already owned your statements.




Thanks!


arrow[/quote0d385a2804]
Owned my statements? Yeah with the ones [b0d385a2804]I[/b0d385a2804] posted. You're such a joke.[/quote0d385a2804]

Maybe if you weren't criticizing me the whole time and saying i didn't post any useful information you would've seen all the links i've posted.


I officially have no life...sums it up, i got one so im done arguing. toast

[quote297e2425c1="andreliveson"][quote297e2425c1="johnjimjones"][quote297e2425c1="andreliveson"][quote297e2425c1="johnjimjones"][quote297e2425c1="andreliveson"]Every upcoming years it gets worse and worse and worse. Hopefully we'll see a rep in 08 hopefully hilary will run and get farted on by a good republican.


So the odds are 3 to 1 it doesnt pass. This whole debate for nothing (
Anyone been watching O'reily lately?[/quote297e2425c1]You're 20? wow you must have slipped and hit a zero when you were entering that.[/quote297e2425c1]


Im done with you, i've already owned your statements.




Thanks!


arrow[/quote297e2425c1]
Owned my statements? Yeah with the ones [b297e2425c1]I[/b297e2425c1] posted. You're such a joke.[/quote297e2425c1]

Maybe if you weren't criticizing me the whole time and saying i didn't post any useful information you would've seen all the links i've posted.


I officially have no life...sums it up, i got one so im done arguing. toast[/quote297e2425c1]The only reason I was criticizing you was you were making the most ignorant statements with no backup. You've posted a total of four links, one was mine and the other you were going after the politician and going off the subject like your left/right side bashing. So two links, don't start giving yourself all sorts of credit as some big PRODUCTIVE contributer to the conversation.

lol andre' andre' andre' roll

Bill O'Reilly is a fascist twat who spews nothing but hate, bigotry and anger. He gets his points across by shouting over the other person, not giving them time to talk, cutting them off etc. He calls himself independant but he's about as independant as a 3 year old. Fox news is a joke to news broadcasting. It's just punditry (even a word?) with people who claim to be from both sides. It's just one sided shite.

As a LEGAL immigrant, I know why people are lead to come to this country illegaly. It's taken my wife and I nearly 4 years and I still don't have my greencard. I applied for my work permit to be renewed last July, I call up in January and get "Oh sorry, I don't know what's going but I'll make a case follow-up for you, call back in 1 month" I call back and am told they haven't even assigned anyone to my case.

It's cost my wife and I thousands of dollars to go through this process but I'm just glad I/we came from better of families/countries than most of the illegal immigrants are coming from. My family and my wife's family helped us out a lot with paying for everything, but to be coming from somewhere like Mexico where a lot of people have very little money, poor job opportunities and a bad economy, to live and work in this country, you're only choice is to come here illegaly.

If the INS knew their arse from their elbow then maybe people would be more encouraged to do it the right way.

Also, just to clarify, a non-resident alien is someone who is allowed to live and work in this country but has not been given permenant resident status (greencard) yet.

Illegal immigrants are called [i0f683a6073]illegal[/i0f683a6073] immigrants for a reason. Living in a border state and having an aunt who is a legal mexican immigrant, I do agree w/ previous statements about securing the borders while strengthening the political connections with Mexico and improving the immigration process.

I also agree that we cannot simply deport [i0f683a6073]every[/i0f683a6073] single illegal immigrant, but we should allow them to become legitimate U.S. citizens while encouraging them to keep their wages inside the U.S. economy. This partly hurts the southern U.S.'s economy because illegal immigrants get jobs and send their pay back to their family in Mexico, when it's better if their family actually move to the U.S. legitimately and get jobs as well.

http//youtube.com/watch?v=oz7S4HTfeSI

[quotee36ba2feeb="x323smostwantedx"]http//youtube.com/watch?v=oz7S4HTfeSI[/quotee36ba2feeb]That's so retarded. I'd bet a ton on 95% of those people not knowing why the hell they're out there other than missing school. For the ones that do, good for them. They all think its just Mexican (Central American etc) pride but they have no idea what's behind what they're doing(not that there's anything wrong with pride in your culture).

[quote1b2f2ba78d="johnjimjones"][quote1b2f2ba78d="x323smostwantedx"]http//youtube.com/watch?v=oz7S4HTfeSI[/quote1b2f2ba78d]That's so retarded. I'd bet a ton on 95% of those people not knowing why the hell they're out there other than missing school. For the ones that do, good for them. They all think its just Mexican (Central American etc) pride but they have no idea what's behind what they're doing(not that there's anything wrong with pride in your culture).[/quote1b2f2ba78d]
I know, many kids just walkout so they wont go to class and go around screaming "MEXICO" or "Si se puede" but there are some that do know their stuff.

[quote8d8100e2af="johnjimjones"][quote8d8100e2af="x323smostwantedx"]http//youtube.com/watch?v=oz7S4HTfeSI[/quote8d8100e2af]That's so retarded. I'd bet a ton on 95% of those people not knowing why the hell they're out there other than missing school. For the ones that do, good for them. They all think its just Mexican (Central American etc) pride but they have no idea what's behind what they're doing(not that there's anything wrong with pride in your culture).[/quote8d8100e2af]

I agree. I am completely against these high school walks. Thankfully my brother is in high school, educated on both sides of the situation, but decided that it would be more beneficial not to attend these school walkouts.

What's [if7f368f220]really[/if7f368f220] fucking retarded is the protest my HS staged while I was going there. Everyone sat in the concourse (main part of the building) instead of going to class. They wanted to get an off-campus lunch. And while they were doing that, the war in Iraq was just starting. Talk about a good cause, douchebags roll All the kids at that school were egocentric O.C. wannabes anyways.

[quote1a1c868ef2="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quote1a1c868ef2]

I'm an immigrant but I am not doing any of that....

For the past however many years, the US has unofficially tolerated people migrating here, working illegally and in most cases, let them settle. The politicans tolerated this because it helped increase the profit margins for the businesses that used the labour which this practice provided. Now that some of these people have been here for upwards of 20 years, have families and children, you want to throw them all out? That isn't really fair to anyone. Now, if you're going to get strict on immigration,you have to accomodate for those people who are already here trying to make a decent living. That means that you have to make immigration procedures accessible to those people. One way to do this would be to allow these people to apply for legal status here in the US as well as to lower the fees that come with these applications. It cost me over 2 grand to complete my applications and get my legal status here. How many Latinos do you think have that kind of money to throw around? I'll bet you that it isn't many. Making between $40 - $100 a day isn't very substantial. It doesn't leave much room in the budget for $2000 worth of application fees - especially when ones wages are not guaranteed day to day.

Granted, people convicted of serious crimes should have been deported but if they weren't, that is the fault of the INS - not 'liberals.' The INS/CIS are incompetent as all hell. I have seen a few examples of this.

In order to resolve the immigration issue, you have to consider the people that are already here as well as those trying to enter. Criminalizing everyone for something that was obviously tolerated by those making the laws is terribly unfair. Especially for those who work hard and try to be good, honest people...

HONEST


they are criminals, ILLEGIAL CITIZENS.

honest people dont tresspass

[quotefe019caa23="andreliveson"]HONEST


they are criminals, ILLEGIAL CITIZENS.

honest people dont tresspass[/quotefe019caa23]

can we put a muzzle on this idiot.

9 out of 10 of your posts have spelling errors.

10 out of 10 of your posts are irrelevant.

[quote2c34bfc3a9="good2speed"][quote2c34bfc3a9="andreliveson"]HONEST


they are criminals, ILLEGIAL CITIZENS.

honest people dont tresspass[/quote2c34bfc3a9]

can we put a muzzle on this idiot.

9 out of 10 of your posts have spelling errors.

10 out of 10 of your posts are irrelevant.[/quote2c34bfc3a9]

If we shut him up, it will only make him look more intelligent, at least this way if he continues to post he's still making himself look like an idiot.

[quotefc500f55b5="theysayjump"]If we shut him up, it will only make him look more intelligent, at least this way if he continues to post he's still making himself look like an idiot.[/quotefc500f55b5]
lol

[quote15887ccc3b="andreliveson"]HONEST

they are criminals, ILLEGIAL CITIZENS.

honest people dont tresspass[/quote15887ccc3b]

Obviously, you've had it easy your entire life. You've never emigrated anywhere so you wouldn't understand how difficult it is to go through the bureaucracy involved. Ask TSJ or myself how much fun it is to legally emigrate to the US. I have had it easy compared with him, so you're better off asking him.

If you lived in a country where there was no work, it was ravaged by war (we won't discuss who was responsible today), you couldn't get clean water, and you were suffering, your survival instinct would kick in. If you had the opportunity to go somewhere where you could find some work without the need for immigration procedures, [i15887ccc3b]you would do what is necessary to survive and move to that country.[/i15887ccc3b] That is exactly what all of the people from Central American are doing. They know that the US tolerates migrant labourers so they go here in pursuit of their 'American dream.' According to statistics, there are 12 million of those people in the United States right now. I am sure that the vast majority of those people are honest and hard working. They only came here because they needed to survive and that is what they are doing.

Criminalizing them all in the fashion that you advocate is nothing less than ethnic cleansing, IMHO.

[quote92bf7ade03="Jake"]

If you lived in a country where there was no work, it was ravaged by war (we won't discuss who was responsible today), you couldn't get clean water, and you were suffering, your survival instinct would kick in. If you had the opportunity to go somewhere where you could find some work without the need for immigration procedures, [i92bf7ade03]you would do what is necessary to survive and move to that country.[/i92bf7ade03] That is exactly what all of the people from Central American are doing. They know that the US tolerates migrant labourers so they go here in pursuit of their 'American dream.' According to statistics, there are 12 million of those people in the United States right now. I am sure that the vast majority of those people are honest and hard working. They only came here because they needed to survive and that is what they are doing.

Criminalizing them all in the fashion that you advocate is nothing less than ethnic cleansing, IMHO.[/quote92bf7ade03]

I agree with everything you said but aren't you from Canada? They have got to have clean running water in Canadia?

[quote3a8fccea80="good2speed"]
I agree with everything you said but aren't you from Canada? They have got to have clean running water in Canadia?[/quote3a8fccea80]

Oh, I wasn't referring to myself being an immigrant from a destitute country like the people who cross the border from Mexico.

I moved here because I got married and this was where the jobs were (same rationale, different approach).

I am getting tired of all the protests in Dallas. I think the riot police should leave and we should send in the immigration officers instead. The news reporters asked kids questions on live TV and they did not even know what exactly they were protesting about. One girl said she hates Bush for trying to kick all of them out of Texas, but the news reporter then told her that Bush is actually trying to help them find a solution....

If I had the time and man power, I would form a militia and patrol the border to repel the invasion of illegal immigrants. twisted

It's pretty costy. My parents also couldn't afford to pay for my citizen certificate. There's 7 of us. So, take the fee X 7. They worked two jobs and went to night school to learn English... but it wasn't enough.

So, I can't get a passport either. I also don't have a birth certificate.


So really if I lost my driver license, I really don't exist. (which once I thought I did and almost died... the DMV lady wouldn't give me a copy and actually told me to go apply for legal alien! I got kicked out when I said a few words to her that weren't appropriate.)

BTW, I am a citizen because my parents went through the process before I was 18. So, please don't tell me to go back to where I belong. Thank you.


[quote59e55aff8e="Wolfeman"][quote59e55aff8e="h3x"]We need a good right-minded republican president in '08..

I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all, but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.[/quote59e55aff8e]
Considering he is a retard I'd agree. If by "right-minded" you mean more right I don't know if thats possible unless we elect Jesus or the Pope...[/quote59e55aff8e]

HAHAAA

[quote59e55aff8e="andreliveson"]Well anyone knows that immigrants...


1. Cost americans jobs.
2. Increase Crime
3. Bring disease
4. Drugs[/quote59e55aff8e]

Nope... would have to say I haven't done any of those things.... well unless someone feels I stole their math teaching job??

Just and FYI for everyone, there is more to it than "rounding them up." Put yourself in the immigrants situation.

And another thing, a lot of immigrant children were brought with their parents at a young age. These are kids that were brought at 2 or three years old. Did they know they were breaking the law? No. Do they know anything of their "home country" to survive? No. If you told them to "go home," where do you think they'd go? Home. Here, in the United States. They know nothing different than that. You can't just kick them out just like that. Many are high school graduates with GPA's up the wazoo. Can they go to college, get a job to pay for it, and continue their education? No.

And we all know who the idiots in this thread is, let's not pay attention to them as they are [bd98c893e51]clearly[/bd98c893e51] and annoying banned member.

[quotee97bd12f9c="thehacker010"]I am getting tired of all the protests in Dallas. I think the riot police should leave and we should send in the immigration officers instead. The news reporters asked kids questions on live TV and they did not even know what exactly they were protesting about. One girl said she hates Bush for trying to kick all of them out of Texas, but the news reporter then told her that Bush is actually trying to help them find a solution....

If I had the time and man power, I would form a militia and patrol the border to repel the invasion of illegal immigrants. twisted[/quotee97bd12f9c]

yeah, today in dallas, when the students stormed city hall(lol lol and swam in the reflection pool). police stormed in and arrested quite a few on case of truancy. monday it was cool, tuesday it was ight, now by wed, it's just kinda dying out.


APRIL 9th is the big protest in dallas though.

I think the students are just using this as an excuse to ditch. There is no reason for them to keep this going on and on...

[quoteb450531cf0="Wolfeman"]I think the students are just using this as an excuse to ditch. There is no reason for them to keep this going on and on...[/quoteb450531cf0]

Students can protest all they want, but I wish they'd be more organized and protest on a non-school day.

And whatever organized protest that comes up in Los Angeles, I will be sure to attend.

[quote85e4923761="Veek"][quote85e4923761="Wolfeman"]I think the students are just using this as an excuse to ditch. There is no reason for them to keep this going on and on...[/quote85e4923761]

Students can protest all they want, but I wish they'd be more organized and protest on a non-school day.

And whatever organized protest that comes up in Los Angeles, I will be sure to attend.[/quote85e4923761]
No they have a right to protest, everyone has that right. I just think a lot of them are using it as an excuse to ditch and thats pretty lame...

[quoted591959dc0="h3x"]We need a good right-minded republican president in '08..

[bd591959dc0]I'm sorry G.W., you are a great president and all[/bd591959dc0], but you shouldn't let your hispanic family ties influence your decisions on our nation's borders.[/quoted591959dc0]

Dude I didn't know ostriches could type!

[bb3bbe33f67][ib3bbe33f67][ub3bbe33f67]PLEASE NO BUSH BASHING!!! DON'T CRAP MY THREAD(i really don't want it locked)[/ub3bbe33f67][/ib3bbe33f67][/bb3bbe33f67]

An article for the "I need exact numbers..." data-crunchers
http//www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html
[quote2541d6d77f="Linked Story Above"]The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) estimates that in January of 2000 there were 7 million illegal aliens living in the United States, a number that is growing by half a million a year. Thus, the illegal-alien population in 2003 stands at at least 8 million. Included in this estimate are approximately 78,000 illegal aliens from countries who are of special concern in the war on terror. It is important to note that the 500,000 annual increase is the net growth in the illegal-alien population (new illegal immigration minus deaths, legalizations, and out-migration).[/quote2541d6d77f]


An article for the "I need numbers with analysis" Business Week readers
http//www.cis.org/articles/2001/mexico/wages.html
[quote2541d6d77f="Linked Story Above"]Most Natives Do Not Face Job Competition from Mexican Immigrants. [u2541d6d77f]The often-made assertion that immigrants only take jobs Americans do not want is partly correct, at least in regard to Mexican immigrants. It seems very likely that the vast majority of the jobs held by Mexican immigrants are jobs that would not interest the majority of Americans because they are generally low paying work done by unskilled workers.[/u2541d6d77f] However, it is also clear that there are millions of Americans who do precisely those kinds of jobs. There are 8.3 million native-born workers 18 years of age or older working full-time who have not completed high school. In addition, there are 3.4 million adult native-born Americans who lack a high school education working part-time. There is a good deal of evidence that these workers are in direct competition with Mexican immigrants.[/quote2541d6d77f][i2541d6d77f]Do keep in mind that the story keeps referencing the group as "immigrants" and not "illegal immigrants", however the same general assumptions can be made regarding the two groups.[/i2541d6d77f]


An article for the "I read on the internet..." story-tellers
http//www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31379
[quote2541d6d77f="Linked Story Above"]What a terrible tragedy that 17-year-old Jesica Santillan has died after an apparent mistake made during her heart-lung transplant surgery. We can only begin to imagine the pain of losing a child. Equally tragic, however, is that two sets of organs went to a person who entered our country illegally. Two American citizens or legal immigrants went without organs while an illegal alien got the transplant. To add insult to injury, Jesica's family refused to donate any of her organs, which might have been used to save other young people. [u2541d6d77f]What a travesty![/u2541d6d77f][/quote2541d6d77f]


An article for the "Those dirty Mexicans are polluting our streams" tree huggers
http//www.carryingcapacity.org/DinAlt.htm
Sorry guys but I don't feel like finding an applicable quote in there. If you feel like reading it go right ahead.



An article for the "Where's my tax money going" bead counters
http//www.cis.org/topics/costs.html
[quote2541d6d77f="Linked Story Above"]The National Research Council has estimated that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with most government expenditures on immigrants coming from state and local coffers, while most taxes paid by immigrants go to the federal treasury. The net deficit is caused by a low level of tax payments by immigrants, because they are disproportionately low-skilled and thus earn low wages, and a higher rate of consumption of government services, both because of their relative poverty and their higher fertility.[u2541d6d77f]This is especially true of illegal immigration. Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, [b2541d6d77f]the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant.[/b2541d6d77f][/u2541d6d77f][/quote2541d6d77f]


[u2541d6d77f]My opinion[/u2541d6d77f]
As an outspoken capitalist, my biggest concern with illegal immigrants is unpaid taxes and free use of government-provided services. While I don't think we should leave people on the street corner to die, it is not our responsibility to provide free handouts to those who don't rightfully belong here. Not only is it a cost to those who worked hard to pay for those services, a "you owe me" mentality is bestowed onto a new generation (hence the protests you see on your television [u2541d6d77f]programming[/u2541d6d77f]). If the United States decides to extend a mass-naturalization to the current group of illegal immigrants what steps will they take to ensure that a new crop of illegal immigrants do not enter?

Regarding the difficulty with the department of immigration and naturalization, I consider that a test of your will to get into the country. It is the equivalent of a weed-out class in college those who want to get beyond their current status will persevere and those who don't will move on to other things. How much sweeter your entry when you are accepted then when you sneak in and live in secret.

Anyone who walks into our country and [u2541d6d77f]demands[/u2541d6d77f] citizenship has neither earned his or her citizenship nor given anyone a reason to naturalize him or her.
[quote2541d6d77f="Proverbs 2211"]He who loves a pure heart and whose speech is gracious will have the king for his friend.[/quote2541d6d77f]

kick em out.

[quote47505e569e="RM200"]kick em out.[/quote47505e569e]
What a worthwhile comment to bump this thread with.

This seems to be most ppl's view on this thread
[quote093a135c60]As an outspoken capitalist, my biggest concern with illegal immigrants is unpaid taxes and free use of government-provided services. While I don't think we should leave people on the street corner to die, it is not our responsibility to provide free handouts to those who don't rightfully belong here[/quote093a135c60]

Alright so you have these illegal immigrants who come to the country..now you've got to ask, why do they go to the US? Is it just to abuse government systems and not pay taxes? No..they come to America, the country they heard so much about that offers people opportunities and what not. They come here to work..to make a living..to survive. Not to mention how difficult it is to obtain legal status especially the wait time.

Ok so the problem with illegal immigrants is that they don't pay taxes...why should they? Most jobs that they are hired for..the employer knows they are illegal and so they take advantage of the situation and offer wages below minimum and of course they get away with it since the illegal immigrants cant complain to anyone.. So now you expect these people who can barely afford a living to pay taxes as well?

[quote093a135c60]An article for the "I read on the internet..." story-tellers
http//www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31379
[quote093a135c60="Linked Story Above"]What a terrible tragedy that 17-year-old Jesica Santillan has died after an apparent mistake made during her heart-lung transplant surgery. We can only begin to imagine the pain of losing a child. Equally tragic, however, is that two sets of organs went to a person who entered our country illegally. Two American citizens or legal immigrants went without organs while an illegal alien got the transplant. To add insult to injury, Jesica's family refused to donate any of her organs, which might have been used to save other young people. [u093a135c60]What a travesty![/u093a135c60][/quote093a135c60][/quote093a135c60]

I read this and wtf?
'What a travesty' ? 'organs, which might have been used to save OTHER YOUNG PEOPLE' ? Anyone else see something wrong with this??? so pathetic.

Anyway, this thread reminded me of maddox )
Interesting rant lishrugsli

http//www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=walmart

[quote0e2f1b477d="synix"]Ok so the problem with illegal immigrants is that they don't pay taxes...why should they? Most jobs that they are hired for..the employer knows they are illegal and so they take advantage of the situation and offer wages below minimum and of course they get away with it since the illegal immigrants cant complain to anyone.. So now you expect these people who can barely afford a living to pay taxes as well?[/quote0e2f1b477d]

This is incorrect. I've met many undocumented students and people who do pay taxes. They don't go working without trying to contribute. They do this because they know no other way, it's the American way. You have to pay your taxes. In addition, they know that when they have a way to legalize their status, they will be fined if they haven't done their taxes but have been working.

Earlier in this thread, I mentioned the ITIN. That number is for anyone who thinks that undocumented workers are not paying taxes because they don't have a valid SSN.

And I also see your point about Jessica. People have the right to life, no matter where they're coming from, or what their legal status is.

vote stackmjwiz for president '08