JOHN KERRY FOR PRESIDENT

Thought I would start up the politics just for fucks sake... Me, I dont wanna get drafted so my vote goes to Kerry...

Exactly me also, I dont want to fight for no damn reason for a government I don't even want. But I'm 13 so the war would have to go on another 5 years or somethin before i get drafted. If bush gets elected again, there [u4212e8282e]will[/u4212e8282e] be a draft.

I completely think there will be a draft... And I dont wanna fight for that shit... It's so sketch, I dont really KNOW what we are fighting for... First I thought it was getting back at Osama for killing a bunch of innocent civilians, but next thing I know no one gives a fuck about him anymore and its back to Sadam all over again.. I think he's just finishing up what his father started thats all this is... I call this war... Bushes Vietnam...

I doubt there will be a draft and I can't vote democrat, so I'm all about GW.

Sorry.

Whats your income per year? over a million you say?

Even if there isnt a draft Bush n Dick still suck man... Look at our economy... I mean thanks to GW companys get tax breaks by sending all of our jobs to Mexico... Thats bullshit if you ask me...

Kerry owns all. ?

[quote73acf6ed8e="BlingKing"]Whats your income per year? over a million you say?[/quote73acf6ed8e]

Haha NO...i work at Starbucks and another place and make less than $8/hr at either.

[quoteb865d0288c="Neversky"]Even if there isnt a draft Bush n Dick still suck man... Look at our economy... I mean thanks to GW companys get tax breaks by sending all of our jobs to Mexico... Thats bullshit if you ask me...[/quoteb865d0288c]

So... you're insinuating that Bush is responsible for our bad economy? And that would mean Clinton was responsible for when it was good?

4 years... 6 million have lost their job. Tax cuts go straight to the rich. My dad got 400 bucks man. Thats nothing. If you take a pie with 100 people and 1 is rich the rest are poor. The rich guy gets almost half the pie and the other 99 poor have to take whats left.

Yes I am saying that... Did you read what I wrote??? HE GIVES TAX BREAKS TO COMPANYS THAT OUTSOURCE... Meaning If I am AOL for example... I can send all my phone center jobs to india pay the indians 50 cents an hour... lay off 10,000 Americans... And get a tax break... Basically encouraging companys to do it... Call AOL it will be someone from India almost guranteed.

[quote197ba30482="BlingKing"]4 years... 6 million have lost their job. Tax cuts go straight to the rich. My dad got 400 bucks man. Thats nothing. If you take a pie with 100 people and 1 is rich the rest are poor. The rich guy gets almost half the pie and the other 99 poor have to take whats left.[/quote197ba30482]

The top one percent of income earners get about 1/3 of all tax cuts. But they paid about 1/3 of the taxes. I agree this is totally unfair to lower income earners roll

Here's my opinion on the matter.

[quoted775899f0a="BlingKing"]4 years... 6 million have lost their job.[/quoted775899f0a]

Some numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics[=http//data.bls.gov/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LNS14000000]Bureau of Labor Statistics

Unemployment five months before elections
1996 (Clinton) - 5.5%
2004 (Bush) - 5.5%

And don't forget the stock market tank[=http//finance.yahoo.com/q/hp?s=%5EIXIC&a=02&b=10&c=2000&d=04&e=23&f=2000&g=d]stock market tank in the spring of 2000, which many investors say led to our current recession. The NASDAQ fell 37%, but Bush was nowhere near the White House...

What's so wrong with outsourcing? Thousands of poor people in third world countries getting a new lease on life, finally able to break the chains of poverty... last I checked this was a good thing, and most liberals were very much in favor of helping the needy. Or am I mistaken? I figured it'd be conservatives being the selfish ones, here.

And about taxes. I'm reminded of an old story I read once in the Tampa Tribune. (Link is dead, unfortunately)

[quoted775899f0a]Suppose that every day, 10 men went out for dinner. The bill for all 10 came to $100. They decided to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes, so they divided the bill like this

The first four men - the poorest - would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1, the sixth $3, the seventh $7, the eighth $12, the ninth $18, and the 10th man - the wealthiest - would pay $59.

One day the restaurant owner threw them a curve (in tax language, a tax cut).

"Since you are all such good customers,'' he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20.''

[bd775899f0a]Continuing To Eat For Free[/bd775899f0a]

The group still wanted to pay the bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free. But what about the other six - the paying customers? How would they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ``fair share''?

The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would end up being PAID to eat their meal.

So at the restaurant owner's suggestion, they arrived at this new distribution The fifth man paid nothing, the sixth pitched in $2, the seventh paid $5, the eighth paid $9, the ninth paid $12, leaving the 10th man with a bill of $52 instead of his earlier $59. Each of the six was better off, and the first four continued to eat for free.

But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20,'' declared the sixth man, then, pointing to the 10th. "But he got $7!'' "Yeah, that's right,'' exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that the wealthy get all the breaks!''

"Wait a minute,'' yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!''

The nine men surrounded the 10th and beat him up. The next night he didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him.

But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered, a little late, what was very important. They were $52 short of paying the bill.

The lesson here is one that congressional opponents of President Bush's efforts to reduce income taxes well understand. But for political reasons they have chosen to engage in class warfare, deliberately misleading their constituents with speeches decrying administration tax policies that "favor the rich.''[/quoted775899f0a]

Personally, I see nothing wrong with helping out large corporations. Who do we expect to hire the unemployed? The government?

Corporations are needed to create jobs. Rich people are useful because they invest. When they invest, that money becomes available to entrepreneurs, the people with the new ideas who start companies and create jobs. Remember the 1990s? Thousands of startups were created because entrepreneurs had easy access to the necessary capital. The jobs those companies created benefited everyone.

When you get down to it though, this isn't an argument that can be argued with facts. It's a moral dilemma. So the question is

Do the rich deserve a larger tax break to make up for what they give as taxes, while the poor receive almost nothing, when they give almost nothing? The "fair" answer is "yes". But the "humanitarian" answer is "no", since the poor people obviously need a break more than the rich do. When you do this though, you're bordering Communism.

Don't get me wrong, Communism [id775899f0a]is[/id775899f0a] the perfect system. The only problem is that it requires perfect people, which you'll never have. Somebody is lazy. Somebody is greedy. Somebody isn't willing to work as hard as everyone else. Somebody wants to be different.

I can't think of anything else to say... so I guess I hit "submit" now.

Over my head...

[quote89f55117e0="Neversky"]Over my head...[/quote89f55117e0]

And how old are you?

[quote57b819c636="JiveBologna"]

And about taxes. I'm reminded of an old story I read once in the Tampa Tribune.

[/quote57b819c636]

thanks, i've been trying to find that

[quotedaab82b65a="JiveBologna"]

And how old are you?[/quotedaab82b65a]
18

[quote36468fcf05="Neversky"]18[/quote36468fcf05]

Gah, you get to vote. I won't be 18 until two weeks AFTER the elections. Color me jealous.

[quote88174a55a6="Neversky"]Over my head...[/quote88174a55a6]

if that's over your head, perhaps you shouldn't be voting... http//zephyr2.home.insightbb.com/ugh2.gif[" alt=""/img88174a55a6]

I dont wanna get drafted by GW so Im voting...

And you know what happend with communism? The government started hiding things from the public and changing the rules, and the people all were with the dictators no matter what happend. Can't you see what is happening? The whole USA is so blind to the truth. Do you know how much info is being kept a secret? And there are those people who are pro Gw no matter what. They dont even know why.

As Nostradamus predicted [quote3664004e90]The village idiot we rule a nation at the turn of the century[/quote3664004e90]

and he also said that he would start third world war and it would be so bad that you would wish you were dead. After this there will be 3000( i think 3000 maybe he said 1000) years of peace.

For those of you who don't know who Nostradamus is he was a prophit who predicted events that have actually occured. He predicted WWII and even said Hitlers name.

[quotea073b205d0="BlingKing"]And you know what happend with communism? The government started hiding things from the public and changing the rules, and the people all were with the dictators no matter what happend. Can't you see what is happening? The whole USA is so blind to the truth. Do you know how much info is being kept a secret? And there are those people who are pro Gw no matter what. They dont even know why.

As Nostradamos predicted [quotea073b205d0]The village idiot we rule a nation at the turn of the century[/quotea073b205d0]

and he also said that he would start third world war and it would be so bad that you would wish you were dead. After this there will be 3000( i think 3000 maybe he said 1000) years of peace.

For those of you who don't know who Nostradamos is he was a prophit who predicted events that have actually occured. He predicted WWII and even said Hitlers name.[/quotea073b205d0]

I was actually referring to Communism as a political theory. You're taking past history out of context.

Perhaps Nostradamus was actually referring to William McKinley? wink

[quote29c0471fdf="BlingKing"] Do you know how much info is being kept a secret?[/quote29c0471fdf]

but you [i29c0471fdf]know[/i29c0471fdf] there is info being kept a secret

[quote29c0471fdf]
And there are those people who are pro Gw no matter what. They dont even know why. [/quote29c0471fdf]

quite the contrary. Kerry's entire campaign has been "i'm not going to do what bush would do." Go to the official democrated site. All they tell you is what bush does wrong.

[quote29c0471fdf]As Nostradamus predicted[/quote29c0471fdf]

as this point i lost all respect for you as a political debater.

I've been in europe for the past 4 months. EVERYONE hates america. There is so much grafiti everywhere that sais Flik bush and Flik nato. If you have any resembllense of the US they will kill you. Over there they show the news where its not cencored. They tell [ua17c4e9044]everything[/ua17c4e9044] thats happend.

[quotebf9b907812="BlingKing"]I've been in europe for the past 4 months. EVERYONE hates america. There is so much grafiti everywhere that sais Flik bush and Flik nato. If you have any resembllense of the US they will kill you. [/quotebf9b907812]

if this has any affect on who you vote for, you are a sheep.


[quotebf9b907812]Over there they show the news where its not cencored. They tell [ubf9b907812]everything[/ubf9b907812] thats happend.[/quotebf9b907812]

for example?

In regards to taxes. The people who pay the majority of the taxes in our country, in forms of the largest percentage of the TOTAL taxes paid, are those in the highest tax brackets. As for John Kerry, he could had paid extra in the state of Mass..its on the bottom of thier tax forms to help public projects.. hmm he didnt.

The job levels in the united states are at the exact level as when clinton praised himself and was re elected in 1996. 5.4 5.6 somewhere around that area. The employment rate is rising back out of the recent recession. in case any of you dont know it take appro 4-8 years to reap the benefits of presidential policies tax cuts ect. so are we reaping benefits of clintons administration? beyond that the economy is cyclical...that means it goes in cycles people. remember 9-11. that might have helped the recession as well. oh by the way..what's kerrys plan to create his "new jobs" anyone? the DNC, Move on.org, national media, and kerry himself havent said much about that...

How bout lets start by not getting rid of the jobs we already have... Quit giving em to other countries...

Are you arguing that the government is soley responsible for sending jobs overseas? Bush is just giving them away? and Kerry will put an end to it? Do you have an idea of what you actually are talking about? do you know what causes outsourcing?

I do blame it on the govt for giving them tax cuts to outsource... I think if they outsource there should be a tax... Not a tax cut... And what causes outsourcing... Enlighten me...

the main cause of outsourcing is labor. cheaper to pay a woman in malaysia than a woman in the us to make a wallet for example. also, the malaysian woman doesnt ask for health care. the us one does. cheaper to work = profits. and yes taxes are a small part of it. for example taxes in illinois and california were RAISED for businesses in the past few years so moving to other states was profitable. all in all outsourcing will inherently happen in a capitalist nation. and that isnt all bad. as someone stated before those workers in malaysia are gettin better pay than they would be. just for the record outsourcing isnt a bush thing. it happened just as well during the clinton administration. i think the main problem with labor is the illegal immigration in the united states to which i feel the republican party should pay more attention to, but outsourcing isnt something you can blame on the current administration. Kerry wont do much about it either.

How is outsourcing good for us? I dont care about big business... How do the people benefit from it?

companies that outsource don't pay as much in labor, so their profits are higher. it's not necessarily that it's better for the country, it's the fact that we have a free market. we strive for the highest possible profit.

who do you think makes up big businesses? robots? giraffes?

I didn't say it was great for us. I said "it will inherently happen" regardless on the administration. it is called capitalism.

Oh I see... So outsourcing helps make the company make more so that the CEO's and managment can make more... And the lil people at bottom get to suffer cuz they loose their jobs to the indians... Gotcha... Anyways I look at it this way, If they keep getting rid of all our jobs how are we gonna have the money to buy the shit anyways?

OUTSOURCING WILL OCCUR. there is no way around it. unless you want to be socialist or communist and have the government own everything. and you dont seem to trust the government with anything so looks like capitalism is the way it is. Big business and free market capitalism is what we live in.

kerry owns bush, if u vote kerry u wont go to war for pointless reasons, if u vote for bush ur gonna go to war if some foriegner looks at bush cock eyed. Bush is also a complete moron, incompentant and completly relys on his staff. He doesnt really have a say in any decsion, hes one of those smile and nod guys. Hes a yes man. Bush just wants to give some rich people tax breaks so they can get richer and everyone else can suffer. Heres how politics work, Democrats are elected and better our country, they create a better life for all people in general, they stregthen our countrys econemy. Republicans arrive after and fuck it all up. Democrats come back and clean up the republicans mess. Franklin D Roosevelt pulled our country out of a depression and you can bet your ass if a republican was in office for that Depression our country could very well be considered 3rd world right now

Yeah, bush couldnt testify in front of that commitee (forget the name) by himself... He had to go with his right hand man cheney...

[quoted3c9f3027b="Infinite"]kerry owns bush, if u vote kerry u wont go to war for pointless reasons, if u vote for bush ur gonna go to war if some foriegner looks at bush cock eyed. Bush is also a complete moron, incompentant and completly relys on his staff. He doesnt really have a say in any decsion, hes one of those smile and nod guys. Hes a yes man. Bush just wants to give some rich people tax breaks so they can get richer and everyone else can suffer. Heres how politics work, Democrats are elected and better our country, they create a better life for all people in general, they stregthen our countrys econemy. Republicans arrive after and fuck it all up. Democrats come back and clean up the republicans mess. Franklin D Roosevelt pulled our country out of a depression and you can bet your ass if a republican was in office for that Depression our country could very well be considered 3rd world right now[/quoted3c9f3027b]


say something intelligent or gtfo.

Lincoln united the country and freed the slaves we wouldnt even be able to be a 3rd world country without him...we'd be 2 countries Republican. shall i go on or are you done being a complete moron?

Bush testified in front of the 911 committee with cheney..is that what you mean.. maybe its because they both were questioned. i have a copy of the report if you wanna read it. its pretty interesting.

and for everyone who says that bush is a moron because he can't speak perfectly, i take great offense to that. My brain gets ahead of my mouth and I mix up words or mispronounce something occasionally. Speaking skills != political aptitude.

lol lincoln, he didnt do jack shit, all he did was give a few speechs things just kinda happened around him, not like he made major decsions he was just the one who got credit for them.

Its not just the fact bush cant speak, its that hes really dumb. Had his father not been president he would have never been elected. Had Al Gore elisted clinton on his campaign bush never woulda been elected. Just a few circumstances that fell bushs way, but the fact of the matter is he shouldent have ever been elected and it will be even more tragic if he manages to get re elected

Bush refused to speak to the commitee alone... Thats what Im talking about he HAD to go with Cheney

you have no idea what you are talking about. i have read his debates with Stephen Douglass, i have read, taken classes in my majors, visited lincoln sites. if you honestly think lincoln didnt do anything you may be the most idiotic human being in the united states. lincoln united the union. and quite honestly freeing the slaves wasnt because he thought they should be equal, it was the best way to unite the union. it was more militaristic than humanitarian. do you know anything about history or politics?

he had to go with cheny because his staff was afraid he'd screw it up and say something really dumb, which you know he would have

READ the report.

another example of republican stupidity, Clinton created Trillions of dollars for our country in his office. Guess what bush did, he spent it all in like the first year. Well earned money that could have gone to pay off the nation debt, Bush went and spent on god know whats, whatever he wasted the money on obviously wasnt worth it with our completly crappy economy that bush has created with those trillions. GJ G.W. you spent money to crappen our country, that makes alot of sense. Well actually it probably does make alot of sense to him, hes like that.

[b3b6bdcd547]andrewvaults02[/b3b6bdcd547]
How bout you tell us WHY we should vote for Bush?

Someone get this kid a history class a politics class and an actual opinion that he can back up with facts other than vague examples that don't exist.

ya got snake eyes andrew, end O story
you havent disproved anything that i said at all, all uve been doing is sitting there and typing thats not true blah blah or some form of that after whatever i say. id advise you just stfu. You got nothing buddy

The economy is coming out of a recession. Bush is consistent. You know what he will stand for what he will vote and what his issues are. Kerry has yet to set forth his plans for the things he discusses. He merely says, " here is what Bush does wrong." I am open minded. Give me something to hear rather than "here is what is wrong" without "here is what I will do to fix it" it is easy to look in retrospect and see what you can challenge. As for consistency, Kerry has none. (Ex. Kerry votes for war, opposes war, then attackes Howard Dean for being anti war when Saddam is captured, "If Howard Dean hadhis way, Saddam would still be in power." he said. Then he was anti war again. This summer he was anti war. He voted against a bill for weapons, artillery, body armor ect. And now in the past few weeks he has said he is a pro war candidate.) I can say I don't fully agree with Bush on every issue and am open to interpretation on things like gay marriage, abortion, ect. However, Kerry has not values to back up. "Life begins at conception" he says but he is pro abortion. Take a stance one way or another, tell me what you stand for, tell me what you are planning to do for my country, John. And he hasn't. (Ex 2. He argues that the troops in Iraq are over stretched and that National Guard is being used too much. He plans to send 40,000 other troops to relieve them.) However these men and women signed up knowing they could go to war. They get free school and GI bill and that is what the national guard and reserves are for. For the record he does not say where these 40,000 troops will come from. That is how this campaign is...promises with no evidence or path to implementation. That is why I wil vote for George Bush. Among other reasons. As for you, if you are NOT educated on policies..I dont care if you are 18 or 88..DONT VOTE. Vote only if you know what you are voting for. Get educated.

Infinite

You said Lincoln did nothing... You expect any American to give any attention to your views after that. A 3rd grader would easily defeat your arguments. You have no facts, just rambling ideas with no evidence.

Infinite we're not trying to disprove anything because you haven't actually said anything but blind democratic propaganda. "democrats are good and republicans are bad!" come back with some actual fact, and we'll tear your beliefs to shreds.

My vote totally goes John Kerry.

While not my first choice for dems. candidate - He's a respectable man who, I beleive, will always mean well for AMERICA.

He won't tell women how to run their bodies, tell people who they can love, or restrict education to the wealthy, which are things a certain W would. He won't go to war to make our country sake from men who pose no harm. He won't compromise our planet to make a few bucks for his friends.

So, I'm loud, I'm Proud, I'm active ... FOR KERRY!

I have the right to vote, so Im gonna excercise... I quite frankly dont wanna be drafted into this BS war... I dont even know what it was about... First we were after Osama... then next thing it's an excuse to get Saddam... and he swore they had weapons of mass destruction... Well... Where are they at? I still havent heard of any? Bush is just continuing what his father started... Back to Osama... Where is he at and why arent we making more of an effort to find him... If Im not mistaken he is the one that destroyed the WTC not Saddam.

Thats a good point. Lets get back to the real question, the reason why we are at war. Do you have a good reason? wink

There wont be a draft. Lets be real. As for weapons of mass destruction, lets pretend you are President Neversky. The CIA, MI6 from Britain, and Russian Intelligence, as well as Intel for Egypt tell you, "Mr. President he has WMD's." Would you wait it out? After 9-11? The UN allowed him 12 years to sit and reject inspections. We gave him 2 more chances, then invaded. The weapons were not found. The intelligence community of the world realizes this. Just for the record, in Sept of 2000, John Kerry who was on the Security Council in the Senate said saddam hussein had WMDs and posed a significant threat to the US. He didnt attend ANY meetings with the Security council either...what was he doing? Campaigning. He missed his briefing on counterterrorism this summer to go to Hollywood for a banquet.. getting the picture. We all thought Saddam posed a threat, and Bush made a decision. He backed it up, something Kerry doesnt do. We now do have a democratic government in place in Iraq, and yes it will take years to work...look at Germany post WWII it took until the 1980s and 1990s for things to work there. We still are looking for Osama as well. Like I said, learn the issues. I applaud Neversky for at least being willing to learn and ask quesitons. Just learn the issues before you pick a side.

[quote7acc02216e="Neversky"]I have the right to vote, so Im gonna excercise... I quite frankly dont wanna be drafted into this BS war... I dont even know what it was about... First we were after Osama... then next thing it's an excuse to get Saddam... and he swore they had weapons of mass destruction... Well... Where are they at? I still havent heard of any? Bush is just continuing what his father started... Back to Osama... Where is he at and why arent we making more of an effort to find him... If Im not mistaken he is the one that destroyed the WTC not Saddam.[/quote7acc02216e]

yes, we know you're afraid of being drafted. we get it already. don't worry, you won't have to go represent your country anywhere. it won't come to a draft. our current military can handle the middle east just fine.

as for osama, there are people looking for him.

as for saddam, i'm not sure why it happened soon after 9/11, but there were suspicions that he still had wmd's, which he was told to get rid of 14 years ago. apparently the suspicions were real enough that our government deemed it necessary to go in and make sure in the only way possible.

OK, most people have this deep hatred of Bush for one reason. It's not the economy, it's because of Iraq. And to be honest Kerry would have probably been a pawn and done the same thing if he had people like Cheney, Rummy, and Wolfowitz pushing him along. We all had the same intelligence as other countries, and we ALL thought there were weapons. But the US decided to go it alone and that was the downfall. I really dont like the whole BS reason of freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam because right now they are not any better. Right now they are in more danger than back with Saddam - at least he kept the government secular and had some control over the population. The shit about "he used gas on his own citizens" is retarded, because if we had REALLY cared about that we would have acted on that back when it happened (immediately following first gulf war). After the first Gulf War there were rebels in the north and south of Iraq that planned to revolt and overthrow Saddam, these rebels (along with Saudi Arabia) asked for access to Iraqi weapons caches that the US military had control of. The US denied them access for one reason, they didn't want Saddam to lose power. He was the only thing that had control of the region, allowing western oil companies to come in and export their goods. If you think about it, there is really no moral or humanitarian reason behind the war or we would have acted a long time ago, and at the time when Saddam posed the biggest threat (1988 when we and other western nations gave him funding and weapons to try to crush Khomeini-Iran, which he didn't succeed in doing even after the Iranian military was in ruin after their revolution which led to Khomeini).

I support Kerry over Bush, but Kerry will not win the election with the way he is presenting himself. Right now he's not giving this nation anything different to choose from. We're going to stay in Iraq, we're going to fix the economy, we're going to protect the nation from terrorists. This is exactly what Bush is saying he will do. What Kerry is doing is trying to explain the nuances of how he would do these things BETTER than Bush, and the American public won't feel as compelled to vote for that. Kerry is far too of an intellectual and he gets caught up in these political traps of the swiftvets and does too much explaining and dragging out of things. If Kerry plans to make any progress, he has to change things up radically - and soon.


(edit I forgot to say i would have rather had Dean, not this fancy boy Kerry as democratic candidate)

-inspecta

Finally someone with an educated opinion! He has facts and has his own opinion. And he is right, the way Kerry is running his campaign he won't win. But at least he knows why he is supporting Kerry. And is intelligent.

In regards to Dean, I think alot of younger Democrats would agree with you on that point.

At least Dean was consistent in his liberalism. =/

yeah kerry wont win... especially since florida doesnt count.

[quotebca27b90b2="Inspecta"]OK, most people have this deep hatred of Bush for one reason. It's not the economy, it's because of Iraq. And to be honest Kerry would have probably been a pawn and done the same thing if he had people like Cheney, Rummy, and Wolfowitz pushing him along. We all had the same intelligence as other countries, and we ALL thought there were weapons. But the US decided to go it alone and that was the downfall. I really dont like the whole BS reason of freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam because right now they are not any better. Right now they are in more danger than back with Saddam - at least he kept the government secular and had some control over the population. The shit about "he used gas on his own citizens" is retarded, because if we had REALLY cared about that we would have acted on that back when it happened (immediately following first gulf war). After the first Gulf War there were rebels in the north and south of Iraq that planned to revolt and overthrow Saddam, these rebels (along with Saudi Arabia) asked for access to Iraqi weapons caches that the US military had control of. The US denied them access for one reason, they didn't want Saddam to lose power. He was the only thing that had control of the region, allowing western oil companies to come in and export their goods. If you think about it, there is really no moral or humanitarian reason behind the war or we would have acted a long time ago, and at the time when Saddam posed the biggest threat (1988 when we and other western nations gave him funding and weapons to try to crush Khomeini-Iran, which he didn't succeed in doing even after the Iranian military was in ruin after their revolution which led to Khomeini).

I support Kerry over Bush, but Kerry will not win the election with the way he is presenting himself. Right now he's not giving this nation anything different to choose from. We're going to stay in Iraq, we're going to fix the economy, we're going to protect the nation from terrorists. This is exactly what Bush is saying he will do. What Kerry is doing is trying to explain the nuances of how he would do these things BETTER than Bush, and the American public won't feel as compelled to vote for that. Kerry is far too of an intellectual and he gets caught up in these political traps of the swiftvets and does too much explaining and dragging out of things. If Kerry plans to make any progress, he has to change things up radically - and soon.


(edit I forgot to say i would have rather had Dean, not this retard Kerry as democratic candidate)

-inspecta[/quotebca27b90b2]

finally, an intelligent post. thank you.

yes, bush going into iraq before we had total support from the world made the rest of the world hate bush. but we had intelligence agencies from everywhere saying that he had the weapons. and yes, i agree that we weren't in there for the Iraqi people. But if we said we were, they would probably be more likely to cooperate. I believe it was a tactic of war. As for not letting people overthrow the leader of a country we just got done putting in his place, i don't really see a problem, although i don't believe the reason was oil.

lastly, that's exactly how i feel about kerry. he flip-flops the few opinions he has, and most of his campaign has been "i'm not going to do what bush would have done."

[quote127489b8ee="zatch"]He won't tell women how to run their bodies, tell people who they can love, or restrict education to the wealthy, which are things a certain W would. He won't go to war to make our country sake from men who pose no harm. He won't compromise our planet to make a few bucks for his friends.[/quote127489b8ee]

Let's see...by being anti-abortion as a method of birth control and a way to allow women to be irresponsible, I'm not telling them how to "run their bodies". I'm telling them that murdering an unborn child simply because they "didn't mean to get pregnant" is irresponsible, immoral, and unethical. It's a child. A person. Don't kill it because you don't want to deal with your own lack of condoms-on-hand.

I don't care about gay people. As long as they don't demand SPECIAL rights because they're gay, and as long as they quit shoving rainbow stickers in my face, I'm happy.

Restricting education to the wealthy, eh? I'm dirt poor. My mom's income puts our family under the national poverty line. She got a gianormous tax check from the government after Bush was elected, because of the Earned Income Credit - $3000 in free money because she's poor and has a kid to support. I'm going to school for free right now because of $5000 in state and federal needs-based grants (would have been more but I also have academic scholarships that I earned myself). Do your research before you start talking plz.

Men who pose no harm...? Men who killed over 2000 innocent United States citizens for the sake of being fucking terrorists? Oh, yes. Let's see if they can successfully blow up the REST of the Pentagon before we do anything. Kerry said himself he would have done the same thing - invaded Iraq - had he been in office when 9/11 happened.

There are a bajillion trees on our planet, the ozone isn't going to kill us in the next five hundred years, and the planet regenerates itself - e.g. the ecosystem is ever circling and creating and all that circle of life Lion King bullshit. I get the impression that you don't like the big execs in Big Business. However, if it weren't for Big Business and large corporations in the United States, there's a very good chance the the national and world economies would be NOWHERE near what they are today. Less stable, less efficient, less productive, less jobs, etc.

Guess I'm done now. Missed out on most of the posts...I haven't hit this thread again until now, when it was up to three pages long. Sorry.

[quote2855b8525b="Zephyr"]lastly, that's exactly how i feel about kerry. he flip-flops the few opinions he has, and most of his campaign has been "i'm not going to do what bush would have done."[/quote2855b8525b]

Well, that and "I was in Vietnam neener neener neener". D

republicans = money hungry rich people or hicks
democrats = hard working average person

republicans shit on the little guy
Democrats help out the little guy

Vote John Kerry, bush sucks he doesnt even know what hes doing hes dumb like that.

[quotea214187914="Infinite"]republicans = money hungry rich people or hicks
democrats = hard working average person

republicans shit on the little guy
Democrats help out the little guy

Vote John Kerry, bush sucks he doesnt even know what hes doing hes dumb like that.[/quotea214187914]
Agreed!

Screw that, I'm voting for the only candidate that has openly declared he'd bring our troops home, uphold the Constitution (using its historical context rather than BS interpretations), eliminate the Patriot Act, increase civil liberties, and guarantee lower taxes by lowering the overall size of government

Michael Badnarik. Libertarian for President in 2004.

Go ahead and click n my banner to check him out. Great guy, met him personally at the Libertarian National Convention this year. And he's not gonna sh-t on us like the Republicans and Democrats have been doing for the last 75 years.

$5000 grant huh, wonder where that came from?

[quote5932cada1c]Day in the Life of Joe Middle-Class Republican



by John Gray


Joe gets up at 600am to prepare his morning coffee. He fills his pot full of good clean drinking water because some liberal fought for minimum water quality standards. He takes his daily medication with his first swallow of coffee. His medications are safe to take because some liberal fought to insure their safety and work as advertised.


All but $10.00 of his medications are paid for by his employers medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance, now Joe gets it too. He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs this day. Joe’s bacon is safe to eat because some liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.


Joe takes his morning shower reaching for his shampoo; His bottle is properly labeled with every ingredient and the amount of its contents because some liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained. Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some tree hugging liberal fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. He walks to the subway station for his government subsidized ride to work; it saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees. You see, some liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.


Joe begins his work day; he has a good job with excellent pay, medicals benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe’s employer pays these standards because Joe’s employer doesn’t want his employees to call the union. If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed he’ll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some liberal didn’t think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.


Its noon time, Joe needs to make a Bank Deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe’s deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some liberal wanted to protect Joe’s money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the depression.


Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae underwritten Mortgage and his below market federal student loan because some stupid liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his life-time.


Joe is home from work, he plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive to dads; his car is among the safest in the world because some liberal fought for car safety standards. He arrives at his boyhood home. He was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers Home Administration because bankers didn’t want to make rural loans. The house didn’t have electric until some big government liberal stuck his nose where it didn’t belong and demanded rural electrification. (Those rural Republican’s would still be sitting in the dark)


He is happy to see his dad who is now retired. His dad lives on Social Security and his union pension because some liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn’t have to. After his visit with dad he gets back in his car for the ride home.


He turns on a radio talk show, the host’s keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. (He doesn’t tell Joe that his beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day)  Joe agrees, “We don’t need those big government liberals ruining our lives; after all, I’m a self made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have”.[/quote5932cada1c]

Abortion is not murduring a child. It is destroying an embryo. Do we not kill embryos everyday in human advancement research and medical research? And what if a woman got raped, would you want her to have a baby shw had nothing to do with?

Actually, it's pretty clear from what aborted babies look like that they are formed human beings with body parts and internal organs.

it's murder. I won't fight you on it.

On the dealie about hicks and rich people being republicans, I am neither a hick nor a rich person, and I am a republican.

/done with thread

[quote3c3f8ca435="Inspecta"]$5000 grant huh, wonder where that came from?[/quote3c3f8ca435]


YOOOOOOUR tax dollars...hell yeah.

Heres a perfect example of who bush is and what he stands for and a exact outlook on the fox news network. This maybe be a cartoon but its pretty much dead on.

http//www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/153308

LOL! Thats hillarious

And I am damn well proud that my tax money is improving the overall quality of life in my country. But you know what, giving tax cuts and funding a war in Iraq equals DEBT. So which would you rather have? Your Federal Grant given to you by these EVIL liberals, or it taken away and we get to bulldoze some more countries with nuclear "capabilities" (South Korea http//news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3651604.stm )? The whole point I was trying to make is you're being a hypocrite because you got a federal grant and the people you support are doing nothing to help cut costs on college education, not the ones who helped you get the grant in the first place.

-inspecta

(edit link error)

We [u0ed73d369c]know[/u0ed73d369c] Korea has nuclear weapons. We didn't know that Iraq had weapons, but we still attacked them anyway and found nothing. Somethings wrong with that. And why arn't we after korea now?

BUSH SUCKS, u think if bush ever had a sex scandal with anyone he would be allowed to stay president NO WAY, but clinton did cause hes that good of a president, they would have like condemed bush to death if he did cause he sucks that bad

That was the most ridiculous post I've ever read, Infinite. Nowhere in your rambling, incoherent response did you even come close to having what could be described as an intelligent thought. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

way to rip off movies, your like bush, he cant think of things to say on his own

Way too nOt puntuate corectlie, n00b

You even spell wrong like him lol


nuc-u-lar

Politics is cool, personal attacks are not.

I agree. You know what else isn't cool? Ignorance, whether it be grammatical or political.

[quote1146a67e33="Admin"]Politics is cool, personal attacks are not.[/quote1146a67e33]
He's hinting to you both to knock it off...

heres my hint, bush is a dumbass anyone who likes him should be shot. If you think hes fit to run a country you should be shot. If you vote for him you should be shot. Its a miracle millions arnt already dead because of bush.

I think that last one was a personal attack against the President and the voting public. Anyways, I'm done with this, because I learned a long time ago that you can't debate an idiot without descending to the realm of cheap shots and broken logic.

you know what i think about personal attacks there should be more of them and more directed at bush, cause hes dumb and is gonna be the end of us all if re-elected Bush = twisted but with a ? in his head

[quote8b501c66bb="Infinite"]heres my hint, bush is a dumbass anyone who likes him should be shot. If you think hes fit to run a country you should be shot. If you vote for him you should be shot. Its a miracle millions arnt already dead because of bush.[/quote8b501c66bb]

Guess I'll go kill myself then. liBANGli roll

A N. Korean invasion is completely infeasible without a draft. I was just bringing up S. Korea to show the blatant foolishness of our strong alliance with them in making N. Korea disarm.

[quotecc2b60b32c="Admin"]Politics is cool, personal attacks are not.[/quotecc2b60b32c]

Sry, Jokes are cool too lol

I just wanted to know about something... I heard someone talking on good morning american saying she had witnesses saying Bush taking drugs (crack or something) Evidently this has gotten around. Has anyone heard anything about it?

JOHN KERRY!

bump