homosexuality
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:21:15
Ok, well I would appreciate any thoughtful insights on this. It's just one way of looking at it. If you completely disagree, I respect that.
But I personally think being homosexual is wrong/unnatural.
1)You are not born gay. I have argued with my girlfriend on this issue many times. Identical twins have the same genes. She has two identical twin friends that are males. One is gay... one is not. Until this surfaced, she argued with me heatedly. Now she doesn't. So I believe homosexuality is a product of one's upbringing and inability to fight negative impulses (relates to 3 below)
2)Man and woman were designed (by whatever force you believe in) to be partners. This IS natural. I realize that homosexual activity happens in nature, but that is because it occurs among inferior animals. 3) pertains more to humans.
3)Every person has negative thoughts in their mind that their logical mind and inner being must fight. What separates a person that has thoughts about killing a person (or even committing adultery) from one that acts on those thoughts? Either one is capable of making a decision because we all have free will. One is simply a stronger person than the other.
Think about all the negative thoughts/impulses you have that you are constantly fighting. Is it so hard to believe that homosexuals simply give into those thoughts?
My conclusion being gay is a choice. Being gay is wrong/unnatural.
But.....If being gay works for you and makes you a better person overall, then I respect that.
Anyone have any thoughts on this, especially on 3)
LucaBella
19-12-2005 21:23:05
I always get annoyed when people say it's a choice. if it's so easy to switch who you love, who turns you on, who you desire, then are you saying you could easily "become gay" if required? I mean.. if it's just a choice, you could choose to be gay, right?
shamash
19-12-2005 21:23:43
I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:27:39
Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?
Obviously if society made it perfectly legal to punch anyone you have a problem with in the face one time, more people would give into that negative thought and do it.
agroman
19-12-2005 21:27:49
[quoteedb463b208="exclusiv"]
1)You are not born gay. I have argued with my girlfriend on this issue many times. Identical twins have the same genes. She has two identical twin friends that are males. One is gay... one is not. Until this surfaced, she argued with me heatedly. Now she doesn't. So I believe homosexuality is a product of one's upbringing and inability to fight negative impulses (relates to 3 below)
[/quoteedb463b208]
Twin's have the same genes, but do they share the same "soul"? Think about it. They probably shared many experiences growing up, so is it a learned behavior? Think about that! WHO THE HELL KNOWS! I'm just playing devil's advocate here... I like to stir the pot.
[quoteedb463b208="exclusiv"]
2)Man and woman were designed (by whatever force you believe in) to be partners. This IS natural. I realize that homosexual activity happens in nature, but that is because it occurs among inferior animals.
[/quoteedb463b208]
Inferior? Nice. God created those inferior animals, right?? And yet they survive.... Wait, only the strong survive right? Nah, natural selection isn't "real" it's just a theory, right?
[quoteedb463b208="exclusiv"]
3)Every person has negative thoughts in their mind that their logical mind and inner being must fight. What separates a person that has thoughts about killing a person (or even committing adultery) from one that acts on those thoughts? Either one is capable of making a decision because we all have free will. One is simply a stronger person than the other.
Think about all the negative thoughts/impulses you have that you are constantly fighting. Is it so hard to believe that homosexuals simply give into those thoughts?
[/quoteedb463b208]
How can loving someone be a "negative impulse"? Are you saying that the main motivator for someone to be a homosexual is purely lust? Isn't it possible that they sincerely love each other? Is that wrong?
... again, I'm just stirring the pot. I have an open mind, and this is how I think. Wanna call it "out of the box"? Nah... I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks this way.
So yeah. Discuss.
What bothers me is people being totally against it and then getting mad when they feel "someone is trying to force them to be for it." No one if forcing anyone. Everyone is a human and everyone has feelings. But then again, they turn around and try to convince other people that it's "a sin" it's "very wrong," etc. Gay people are not going anywhere. People have dealt with a lot of ignorance since we can remember. I just don't understand why it's such a big deal. Is it how someone is raised? To be open minded and accepting of other humans? And this whole thing "they are made homosexuals," that is completely idiotic. In addition, what about the gay people who hate themselves for being gay? If it was so easy to change their state of mind, why don't they do it?
shamash
19-12-2005 21:33:15
Howabout all of the people who live the lifes of Brokeback Mountain (as this is where the conversation originated)
Many gay people get married, have children, and live "normal" lives, even though they aren't happy with themselves. They are forced to hide themselves and be depressed for it because of our opressing society.
There are a lot more gay people than you think, even if they aren't openly gay.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:33:33
[quote307be9bc11="shamash"]I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..[/quote307be9bc11]
Can you address the identical twins issue?
Also, why is it so hard for you to say that you choose to be gay? Are you not comfortable with who you are? Why can't you say I choose to be gay and I am a happier person because of this choice?
[quote804b3a90d3="shamash"]Howabout all of the people who live the lifes of Brokeback Mountain (as this is where the conversation originated)
[b804b3a90d3]Many gay people get married, have children, and live "normal" lives, even though they aren't happy with themselves. They are forced to hide themselves and be depressed for it because of our opressing society.[/b804b3a90d3]
There are a lot more gay people than you think, even if they aren't openly gay.[/quote804b3a90d3]
Excellent example!
LucaBella
19-12-2005 21:35:43
I think that's the worse part about it, that people do hate themselves for being gay. That its some big shameful act when it's just who they are. I'm all for discussion, and I hate censorship, but I just wish we didn't even have to have posts like this, because I wish we could just be so accepting of each other that this post wouuld be viewed as weird.. like making a post condemning wearing matching shoes as unnatural. I wish we'd get to the point where we didn't have the judgment...
I'm not gay, I'm not even a particularly sensitive or sweet person, but my heart bleeds for anyone who is being "taught" by society that somehow their very existance is wrong.
shamash
19-12-2005 21:36:49
[quote4d116d116c="exclusiv"][quote4d116d116c="shamash"]I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..[/quote4d116d116c]
Can you address the identical twins issue?
Also, why is it so hard for you to say that you choose to be gay? Are you not comfortable with who you are? Why can't you say I choose to be gay and I am a happier person because of this choice?[/quote4d116d116c]
I'm very comfortable with it, but I don't like lying. I was born gay, I don't choose to be gay.
People have asked me, "If you could be straight, would you?" and I honestly don't know what to say. I've never been straight, so how could I have an opinion on what being straight is like?
mnx12
19-12-2005 21:38:53
exclusiv, you have some points, but I disagree with you in most cases. You dont know what its like to be gay, how would you know if gay people are born gay or not? Dont most gay people realize they have attractions to the same sex before they even know what sex is, or about heterosexuality? I somewhat agree that its wrong, but not immoral, if that makes sense. But everyone has wrongs that they cant control. It doesnt make them bad people.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 21:40:08
[quote44a6aba1dd="exclusiv"]Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?[/quote44a6aba1dd]
Change the word gay to blacks and its 1950. Just because "society" doesn't like something doesn't make it right. in the 50s the majority of people didn't think we should integrate or that blacks were equal to whites.
shamash
19-12-2005 21:41:11
^_^ Beautiful point, Wolfeman.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:45:24
[quotee480de9a8e="shamash"][quotee480de9a8e="exclusiv"][quotee480de9a8e="shamash"]I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..[/quotee480de9a8e]
Can you address the identical twins issue?
Also, why is it so hard for you to say that you choose to be gay? Are you not comfortable with who you are? Why can't you say I choose to be gay and I am a happier person because of this choice?[/quotee480de9a8e]
I'm very comfortable with it, but I don't like lying. I was born gay, I don't choose to be gay.
People have asked me, "If you could be straight, would you?" and I honestly don't know what to say. I've never been straight, so how could I have an opinion on what being straight is like?[/quotee480de9a8e]
still haven't addressed the identical twins issue!
Let me ask you this... You say you don't choose to be gay. Have you ever done any homosexual acts? Let me guess, you didn't choose to do those either...
I believe everything in life is a choice.
And Lucabella, I think openly discussing in such a manner is good. I'm not pushing to ban homosexuality. I don't contribute to hate crimes either. Merely discussing people's stances on this issue.
LucaBella
19-12-2005 21:47:30
I will address the gay twin issue twins are never 100% the same. that's why there will always be genetic differences. Sexuality is just one of many ways those differences are expressed.
mnx12
19-12-2005 21:48:00
[quote3ecea8421f="exclusiv"]
still haven't addressed the identical twins issue!
Let me ask you this... You say you don't choose to be gay. Have you ever done any homosexual acts? Let me guess, you didn't choose to do those either...
I believe everything in life is a choice.
And Lucabella, I think openly discussing in such a manner is good. I'm not pushing to ban homosexuality. I don't contribute to hate crimes either. Merely discussing people's stances on this issue.[/quote3ecea8421f]
Did you choose to be straight, or did you always have that crush on that girl in kindergarten? so your saying that you didnt choose to do straight acts, then?
It is a choice, gay people could live straight lives, but they would be in sorrow their whole lives.
[quote81dce82419="exclusiv"][quote81dce82419="shamash"][quote81dce82419="exclusiv"][quote81dce82419="shamash"]I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..[/quote81dce82419]
Can you address the identical twins issue?
Also, why is it so hard for you to say that you choose to be gay? Are you not comfortable with who you are? Why can't you say I choose to be gay and I am a happier person because of this choice?[/quote81dce82419]
I'm very comfortable with it, but I don't like lying. I was born gay, I don't choose to be gay.
People have asked me, "If you could be straight, would you?" and I honestly don't know what to say. I've never been straight, so how could I have an opinion on what being straight is like?[/quote81dce82419]
still haven't addressed the identical twins issue!
Let me ask you this... You say you don't choose to be gay. Have you ever done any homosexual acts? Let me guess, you didn't choose to do those either...
I believe everything in life is a choice.
And Lucabella, I think openly discussing in such a manner is good. I'm not pushing to ban homosexuality. I don't contribute to hate crimes either. Merely discussing people's stances on this issue.[/quote81dce82419]
I think just the way you can't explain the twins situation since you're not in their shoes, it's the same way Shamash can't either. The twins have their own lives, and one is gay. That's what makes him happy, and it's what makes Shamash happy. It's their own lives, they can't talk and assume about each other. They both have two different characters....
shamash
19-12-2005 21:48:12
I choose who I fuck. I'm not some slut X
And I think that identical twins issue is just a circumstance. Not all identical twins think the same. I'm actually friends with one of a pair of identical twins at my school, John. He puts gel in his hair, his brother doesnt. Hes nice, his brothers an asshole. He likes different types of clothes and music than his brother does. Identical twins have the same genes that construct certain things. Not everything.
agroman
19-12-2005 21:48:25
[quote140c646ce4="Wolfeman"][quote140c646ce4="exclusiv"]Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?[/quote140c646ce4]
Change the word gay to blacks and its 1950. Just because "society" doesn't like something doesn't make it right. in the 50s the majority of people didn't think we should integrate or that blacks were equal to whites.[/quote140c646ce4]
Well put. +KMA
edit dammit, too soon for me to give karma. hello, sticky note.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:48:46
[quote71c198796a="Wolfeman"][quote71c198796a="exclusiv"]Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?[/quote71c198796a]
Change the word gay to blacks and its 1950. Just because "society" doesn't like something doesn't make it right. in the 50s the majority of people didn't think we should integrate or that blacks were equal to whites.[/quote71c198796a]
I realize this.
If you are gay and happy and a better person, and its for you, then good for you. What i was talking about is those people that give into homosexual thoughts, but aren't actually gay.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 21:49:23
Identical twins aren't identical 100%. They aren't clones, they have different souls. It really doesn't matter if someone is born gay or becomes gay because the fact of the matter is people are people. As long as you are a good person, I got no beef. I don't understand why there is this fear of gay people by in this country.
mnx12
19-12-2005 21:50:40
[quote15b4b9b17e="Wolfeman"]Identical twins aren't identical 100%. They aren't clones, they have different souls. It really doesn't matter if someone is born gay or becomes gay because the fact of the matter is people are people. As long as you are a good person, I got no beef. I don't understand why there is this fear of gay people by in this country.[/quote15b4b9b17e]You put it in words perfectly. Its not like people choose to like or hate Mickey Mouse, they just do.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 21:51:29
[quote8ad20f9151="exclusiv"][quote8ad20f9151="Wolfeman"][quote8ad20f9151="exclusiv"]Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?[/quote8ad20f9151]
Change the word gay to blacks and its 1950. Just because "society" doesn't like something doesn't make it right. in the 50s the majority of people didn't think we should integrate or that blacks were equal to whites.[/quote8ad20f9151]
I realize this.
If you are gay and happy and a better person, and its for you, then good for you. What i was talking about is those people that give into homosexual thoughts, but aren't actually gay.[/quote8ad20f9151]
Um, if you give into murderous thoughts you are a murderer. It doesn't matter if you were born that way or learned it. I don't understand why you care if someone else is gay or not. I think people that go to tractor pulls are 99% retarded but if it makes them happy, more power to them...
shamash
19-12-2005 21:52:08
[quotef28e4d985d="exclusiv"][quotef28e4d985d="Wolfeman"][quotef28e4d985d="exclusiv"]Another question...
Do you think that a society where being gay is ok and acceptable in many areas actually contributes to more people giving into homosexual thoughts?[/quotef28e4d985d]
Change the word gay to blacks and its 1950. Just because "society" doesn't like something doesn't make it right. in the 50s the majority of people didn't think we should integrate or that blacks were equal to whites.[/quotef28e4d985d]
I realize this.
If you are gay and happy and a better person, and its for you, then good for you. What i was talking about is those people that give into homosexual thoughts, but aren't actually gay.[/quotef28e4d985d]
If you aren't gay, then why are you fucking other guys?
agroman
19-12-2005 21:52:43
[quote849d7638c8="Wolfeman"]I think people that go to tractor pulls are 99% retarded[/quote849d7638c8]
YESSSSSSSSSSSS! !
mnx12
19-12-2005 21:53:07
Whats a tractor pull?
tylerc
19-12-2005 21:54:03
I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 21:54:45
[quote96acd166b0="Veek"][quote96acd166b0="exclusiv"][quote96acd166b0="shamash"][quote96acd166b0="exclusiv"][quote96acd166b0="shamash"]I strongly believe that I was born gay. I've never had "straight thoughts", and ever since I've been able to think sexually, it was about other men. You don't know what it's like, and honestly, I don't think that you deserve an opinion on something you've never experienced. That's just my thought, though..[/quote96acd166b0]
Can you address the identical twins issue?
Also, why is it so hard for you to say that you choose to be gay? Are you not comfortable with who you are? Why can't you say I choose to be gay and I am a happier person because of this choice?[/quote96acd166b0]
I'm very comfortable with it, but I don't like lying. I was born gay, I don't choose to be gay.
People have asked me, "If you could be straight, would you?" and I honestly don't know what to say. I've never been straight, so how could I have an opinion on what being straight is like?[/quote96acd166b0]
still haven't addressed the identical twins issue!
Let me ask you this... You say you don't choose to be gay. Have you ever done any homosexual acts? Let me guess, you didn't choose to do those either...
I believe everything in life is a choice.
And Lucabella, I think openly discussing in such a manner is good. I'm not pushing to ban homosexuality. I don't contribute to hate crimes either. Merely discussing people's stances on this issue.[/quote96acd166b0]
I think just the way you can't explain the twins situation since you're not in their shoes, it's the same way Shamash can't either. The twins have their own lives, and one is gay. That's what makes him happy, and it's what makes Shamash happy. It's their own lives, they can't talk and assume about each other. They both have two different characters....[/quote96acd166b0]
exactly! but their lifestyle is a product of their upbringing and own choices, or solely the upbringing, or solely the choices
they weren't born that way. there is no gay gene! everyone has free will. everyone makes their own choices.
tylerc
19-12-2005 21:56:08
Check this out exclusiv http//www.newdirection.ca/a_biol.htm
shamash
19-12-2005 21:56:47
Are black people born black?
tylerc
19-12-2005 21:57:45
shamash-Since I just found out now that you were gay, do you agree with that kid's statement (about why would we choose to be ridiculed)?
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 21:58:08
[quotea962b8aeae="mnx12"]Whats a tractor pull?[/quotea962b8aeae]
![]("a962b8aeae)
http//www.fullpull.com/fall.05.gif[" alt=""/imga962b8aeae]
David Cross, the comedian, has a funny thing about why anyone would chose to be gay. "Everyone hates me and I'm a total outcast at my school but you know what... I think I'll try to make it a little worse"
shamash
19-12-2005 21:59:09
I really don't know.. I would give up the ridicule that gay people get, but I've never experienced being a straight member of society, and have no opinion on their lifestyle to make a judgement on that.
shamash
19-12-2005 22:01:00
And honestly, I don't like the ridicule gay people get, but I don't let it get to me. I enjoy my life to the fullest extent. Carpe Diem! It's a wonderful day. ;)
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:01:56
[quote592e28c16b="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quote592e28c16b]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.
and i still dont agree with it not being a choice. it's NORMAL to expect adversity when one deviates from the norm. how many of the most intelligent humans fought against adversity because they chose to. countless.
the reason homosexual people choose to face ridicule and oppression in this society should ideally be simple - being gay makes them content, they are happy/in love, and it makes them a better person,
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 22:02:06
Saying there isn't a gene for being gay doesn't mean anything. We know so little about what makes us, us. Some people believe in a soul (I do) and I think that is what makes you who you are. Not everything is genetics and not everything can be measured or quantified...
tylerc
19-12-2005 22:05:31
Look at the link I posted a little bit ago exclusiv.
shamash
19-12-2005 22:09:00
^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.
theman2005
19-12-2005 22:09:41
[quote67fbb1e51d="exclusiv"][quote67fbb1e51d="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quote67fbb1e51d]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.
and i still dont agree with it not being a choice. it's NORMAL to expect adversity when one deviates from the norm. how many of the most intelligent humans fought against adversity because they chose to. countless.
the reason homosexual people choose to face ridicule and oppression in this society should ideally be simple - being gay makes them content, they are happy/in love, and it makes them a better person,[/quote67fbb1e51d]
i totally see where you're getting at. and i understand what you mean. i have nothing against gay people at all, a lot of my friends are also gay, we get along very well in fact.
No need to flame the guy, he's just giving an opinion and he isn't trying to say gays are bad. In my standpoint, to "turn" gay is usually related to some psychiological mishap or change. Not necessary bad though. My friend didn't know he was gay until he ws in college. he says its probably because he lives with a lot of woman. I think gay people are cool people usually, they're quite nice wink
theysayjump
19-12-2005 22:10:04
[quote15938f3470="exclusiv"]Can you address the identical twins issue?[/quote15938f3470]
So because one twin grew up to be gay and the other grew up to be straight, that means that they chose it right? Did the straight kid choose to be straight? It's all a matter of preference. Since the majority of the world is straight, it is looked down upon or frowned upon to be gay in this society.
If you grow up surrounded by people who believe that gay people "are wrong" or "aren't natural" then that is the way you are going to think and usually it is down to your religion or your fear that makes you think that way. Does your religion believe that homosexuality is wrong? If so, is this why you believe it is wrong also?
[quote15938f3470="exclusiv"]I believe everything in life is a choice.[/quote15938f3470]
If everything in life is a choice, does that mean that you choose to wake up when you do (if you sleep without an alarm getting you up)? Do you choose to get sick? Do you choose when the light turns from red to green?
No, it happens and you have no control over it.
In the thread I made last week or the week before about gay marriage, I mentioned that if you have ever seen those home video shows, and it shows two young kids (toddlers) at a wedding. They're holding hands, kissing, dancing, hugging etc. Do they know what sex is? Do they know what gay and straight is? No, they don't, but they do it because it feels right to them or it feels good. This to me shows that you don't choose to be straight, nor do you choose to be gay.
It's just the way that some people are.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:11:20
[quote25b6b7d71d="Wolfeman"]Saying there isn't a gene for being gay doesn't mean anything. We know so little about what makes us, us. Some people believe in a soul (I do) and I think that is what makes you who you are. Not everything is genetics and not everything can be measured or quantified...[/quote25b6b7d71d]
i believe in souls as well
but in your argument, people have a gay soul? They are (not genetically) predetermined to be attracted to people of the same sex because of their soul? Out of the box, if you will, they cannot choose which sex they are more attracted to/makes them happier/etc?
Iloveipods2
19-12-2005 22:15:14
true, my school had identical twins, one was gay, the other not. But both agreed from extensive research that they've read that it's alot more complex than that. They both agree it's genetic, but the straight one has read from science mags that all gays are truly bi "since genetically we must all reproduce", but that since he always like girls, he just never got turned on y guys.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 22:15:33
[quote4c4b22588e="exclusiv"][quote4c4b22588e="Wolfeman"]Saying there isn't a gene for being gay doesn't mean anything. We know so little about what makes us, us. Some people believe in a soul (I do) and I think that is what makes you who you are. Not everything is genetics and not everything can be measured or quantified...[/quote4c4b22588e]
i believe in souls as well
but in your argument, people have a gay soul? They are (not genetically) predetermined to be attracted to people of the same sex because of their soul? Out of the box, if you will, they cannot choose which sex they are more attracted to/makes them happier/etc?[/quote4c4b22588e]
Yeah people have gay souls. Your soul is who you are and if you are gay, thats a part of you.
ConfusedPigeon
19-12-2005 22:17:12
[quoteb7fdce4ce5="exclusiv"]Ok, well I would appreciate any thoughtful insights on this. It's just one way of looking at it. If you completely disagree, I respect that.
But I personally think being homosexual is wrong/unnatural....[/quoteb7fdce4ce5]
I agree with you.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:21:28
[quote2b25eed13f="theysayjump"][quote2b25eed13f="exclusiv"]Can you address the identical twins issue?[/quote2b25eed13f]
So because one twin grew up to be gay and the other grew up to be straight, that means that they chose it right? Did the straight kid choose to be straight? It's all a matter of preference. Since the majority of the world is straight, it is looked down upon or frowned upon to be gay in this society.
If you grow up surrounded by people who believe that gay people "are wrong" or "aren't natural" then that is the way you are going to think and usually it is down to your religion or your fear that makes you think that way. Does your religion believe that homosexuality is wrong? If so, is this why you believe it is wrong also?
[quote2b25eed13f="exclusiv"]I believe everything in life is a choice.[/quote2b25eed13f]
If everything in life is a choice, does that mean that you choose to wake up when you do (if you sleep without an alarm getting you up)? Do you choose to get sick? Do you choose when the light turns from red to green?
No, it happens and you have no control over it.
In the thread I made last week or the week before about gay marriage, I mentioned that if you have ever seen those home video shows, and it shows two young kids (toddlers) at a wedding. They're holding hands, kissing, dancing, hugging etc. Do they know what sex is? Do they know what gay and straight is? No, they don't, but they do it because it feels right to them or it feels good. This to me shows that you don't choose to be straight, nor do you choose to be gay.
It's just the way that some people are.[/quote2b25eed13f]
I understand your point about toddlers. The fact remains that toddlers aren't mature enough or aware of what exactly is happening.
As to choosing when to wake up, that is out of your control because you aren't in a normal state of mind. In a normal conscious mind regarding you or your actions (stoplight and sickness points are moot), I believe everything is a choice.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:25:26
[quotef3637cd7b7="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quotef3637cd7b7]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?
Admin
19-12-2005 22:25:59
I'm seriously shocked by the ignorance displayed in this thread. I don't even know where to begin.
My biggest problem is with
[quote30277ed4e4="exclusiv"]yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs. [/quote30277ed4e4]
There's nothing "scientific" about your argument. Leave my precious science alone.
Honestly, I don't even see why this is a debate. To me, it's dead simple. What consenting person A and consenting person B do in their bedroom is none of mine or anyone else's fucking business.
And to anyone who feels "grossed out" by gay/lesbian couples in public, I ask you are you seriously more offended by a couple guys holding hands than, say, some kids ferociously making out in the park? Frankly, I'm more upset by the goth girl with her tongue down her boyfriend's throat.
shamash
19-12-2005 22:27:50
Exclusiv, if you're grossed out by gay people and think it's wrong, that shows how open minded you are.
theysayjump
19-12-2005 22:27:53
[quote8993e9bb27="exclusiv"][quote8993e9bb27="theysayjump"][quote8993e9bb27="exclusiv"]Can you address the identical twins issue?[/quote8993e9bb27]
So because one twin grew up to be gay and the other grew up to be straight, that means that they chose it right? Did the straight kid choose to be straight? It's all a matter of preference. Since the majority of the world is straight, it is looked down upon or frowned upon to be gay in this society.
If you grow up surrounded by people who believe that gay people "are wrong" or "aren't natural" then that is the way you are going to think and usually it is down to your religion or your fear that makes you think that way. Does your religion believe that homosexuality is wrong? If so, is this why you believe it is wrong also?
[quote8993e9bb27="exclusiv"]I believe everything in life is a choice.[/quote8993e9bb27]
If everything in life is a choice, does that mean that you choose to wake up when you do (if you sleep without an alarm getting you up)? Do you choose to get sick? Do you choose when the light turns from red to green?
No, it happens and you have no control over it.
In the thread I made last week or the week before about gay marriage, I mentioned that if you have ever seen those home video shows, and it shows two young kids (toddlers) at a wedding. They're holding hands, kissing, dancing, hugging etc. Do they know what sex is? Do they know what gay and straight is? No, they don't, but they do it because it feels right to them or it feels good. This to me shows that you don't choose to be straight, nor do you choose to be gay.
It's just the way that some people are.[/quote8993e9bb27]
I understand your point about toddlers. The fact remains that toddlers aren't mature enough or aware of what exactly is happening.
As to choosing when to wake up, that is out of your control because you aren't in a normal state of mind. In a normal conscious mind regarding you or your actions (stoplight and sickness points are moot), I believe everything is a choice.[/quote8993e9bb27]
So you are religious and more than likely believe that you were put on this earth for a reason right? I believe that everything happens for a reason. If everything happens for a reason, then everything must already be decided as to what is going to happen for that reason to come in to effect, therefore nothing is left to choice, therefore whatever you do in life has already been predetermined.
If god put you on this earth for a reason, then that reason will come to pass and nothing you can do about it will change that, therefore we make no choices and we are what we are.
shamash
19-12-2005 22:29:06
playful cheer playful
^_^ this thread is getting repetitive and boring, so have some flamboyant emoticons!
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:30:45
[quotebc7030949b="shamash"]Exclusiv, if you're grossed out by gay people and think it's wrong, that shows how open minded you are.[/quotebc7030949b]
I'm not grossed out by gay people. Quit trying to spin everything.
Gay acts don't appeal to me. Overweight females don't appeal to me sexually either. I can have preferences too.
[quote74dc3d59df="shamash"]playful cheer playful
^_^ this thread is getting repetitive and boring, so have some flamboyant emoticons![/quote74dc3d59df]
playful
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:32:39
[quoteeada7c870a="Admin"]I'm seriously shocked by the ignorance displayed in this thread. I don't even know where to begin.
My biggest problem is with
[quoteeada7c870a="exclusiv"]yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs. [/quoteeada7c870a]
There's nothing "scientific" about your argument. Leave my precious science alone.
Honestly, I don't even see why this is a debate. To me, it's dead simple. What consenting person A and consenting person B do in their bedroom is none of mine or anyone else's fucking business.
And to anyone who feels "grossed out" by gay/lesbian couples in public, I ask you are you seriously more offended by a couple guys holding hands than, say, some kids ferociously making out in the park? Frankly, I'm more upset by the goth girl with her tongue down her boyfriend's throat.[/quoteeada7c870a]
nothing scientific about genetics, huh?
shamash
19-12-2005 22:32:42
So you're comparing me to a fat chick?
I'd flame you, but that's against FiPG rules ;)
Ahaha, flame you, gay, the irony of it all.
[quote3843046d8b="shamash"]So you're comparing me to a fat chick?
I'd flame you, but that's against FiPG rules ;)
Ahaha, flame you, gay, the irony of it all.[/quote3843046d8b]
You're slowly becoming one of my favorite members.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:36:02
[quotef6d127c3f4="shamash"]So you're comparing me to a fat chick?
I'd flame you, but that's against FiPG rules ;)
Ahaha, flame you, gay, the irony of it all.[/quotef6d127c3f4]
another spin
i'm making the point that you can have your preferences and i can have mine.
but we choose what to act on because of these preferences and what makes us happy
LucaBella
19-12-2005 22:39:11
[quotea2549e27d0="exclusiv"][quotea2549e27d0="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quotea2549e27d0]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.[/quotea2549e27d0]
You state things as "facts" and call them science, but in truth, you haven't said a single correct "scientific fact" yet. you just state your beliefs and say its science. You said there is no gay gene. You don't know that. That is NOT a fact. You make up info, then build your argument onto that. That kind of reasoning always leads to trouble.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 22:39:34
[quotea559cfa849="exclusiv"][quotea559cfa849="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quotea559cfa849]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?[/quotea559cfa849]
Control over everything huh? Most of the things you feel are uncontrolable. Like you get super jealous and you know its lame and you shouldn't be jealous but you still are. So don't try to pretend you are this all-controlling super being. People can't help who they are.
I have a feeling gays aren't going away and you aren't going to change anytime soon. So you can try to accept it and live your life or you can dwell on it and let something you can't control in any way bother you...
mnx12
19-12-2005 22:40:09
All I have to say about this is, stop being so close-minded, and stop asking questions that you already have an opinion about...
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:42:07
[quote43aae93d3d="Wolfeman"][quote43aae93d3d="exclusiv"][quote43aae93d3d="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quote43aae93d3d]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?[/quote43aae93d3d]
Control over everything huh? Most of the things you feel are uncontrolable. Like you get super jealous and you know its lame and you shouldn't be jealous but you still are. So don't try to pretend you are this all-controlling super being. People can't help who they are
I have a feeling gays aren't going away and you aren't going to change anytime soon. So you can try to accept it and live your life or you can dwell on it and let something you can't control in any way bother you...[/quote43aae93d3d]
emotions are COMPLETELY different from a lifestyle or choice of partner
and im not trying to eradicate gays
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:43:42
[quoted92dcc4c41="mnx12"]All I have to say about this is, stop being so close-minded, and stop asking questions that you already have an opinion about...[/quoted92dcc4c41]
discussion boards are for sharing of ideas and opinions
if i was close minded, i wouldn't ask any questions or ask for other's insights
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 22:46:19
[quote8c257825fe="exclusiv"][quote8c257825fe="Wolfeman"][quote8c257825fe="exclusiv"][quote8c257825fe="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quote8c257825fe]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?[/quote8c257825fe]
Control over everything huh? Most of the things you feel are uncontrolable. Like you get super jealous and you know its lame and you shouldn't be jealous but you still are. So don't try to pretend you are this all-controlling super being. People can't help who they are
I have a feeling gays aren't going away and you aren't going to change anytime soon. So you can try to accept it and live your life or you can dwell on it and let something you can't control in any way bother you...[/quote8c257825fe]
emotions are COMPLETELY different from a lifestyle or choice of partner
and im not trying to eradicate gays[/quote8c257825fe]
You couldn't be more wrong. Emotions are what drive us. If you lust after the same sex, you are gay. Lust is an emotion. Gay men are attracted to men the same way a hetero man is attracted to a woman.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:49:38
[quotef1df5048e1="LucaBella"][quotef1df5048e1="exclusiv"][quotef1df5048e1="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quotef1df5048e1]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.[/quotef1df5048e1]
You state things as "facts" and call them science, but in truth, you haven't said a single correct "scientific fact" yet. you just state your beliefs and say its science. You said there is no gay gene. You don't know that. That is NOT a fact. You make up info, then build your argument onto that. That kind of reasoning always leads to trouble.[/quotef1df5048e1]
the only thing i'm saying that is fact is that identical twins share 100% of genes. scientific FACT, lucabella. couple this with the fact that one twin can be straight and one can be gay and there is logically no gay gene, and even if there was, since both have the same genes, why aren't they both gay?!?!? this supports the notion that you aren't born gay (at least from a genetic standpoint)
thats the only thing i've stated as scientific or fact
shamash
19-12-2005 22:51:50
[quote9e2c731017="Veek"][quote9e2c731017="shamash"]So you're comparing me to a fat chick?
I'd flame you, but that's against FiPG rules ;)
Ahaha, flame you, gay, the irony of it all.[/quote9e2c731017]
You're slowly becoming one of my favorite members.[/quote9e2c731017]
Thanks. We had a bit of turbulence back with Goofygarber, but that's all chill now, as you were right about him oops lol
And Exclusiv, why post and ask for other peoples opinions, when you seem so angry about all the opinions you're hearing?
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:53:08
[quote80603a5d82="Wolfeman"][quote80603a5d82="exclusiv"][quote80603a5d82="Wolfeman"][quote80603a5d82="exclusiv"][quote80603a5d82="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quote80603a5d82]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?[/quote80603a5d82]
Control over everything huh? Most of the things you feel are uncontrolable. Like you get super jealous and you know its lame and you shouldn't be jealous but you still are. So don't try to pretend you are this all-controlling super being. People can't help who they are
I have a feeling gays aren't going away and you aren't going to change anytime soon. So you can try to accept it and live your life or you can dwell on it and let something you can't control in any way bother you...[/quote80603a5d82]
emotions are COMPLETELY different from a lifestyle or choice of partner
and im not trying to eradicate gays[/quote80603a5d82]
You couldn't be more wrong. Emotions are what drive us. If you lust after the same sex, you are gay. Lust is an emotion. Gay men are attracted to men the same way a hetero man is attracted to a woman.[/quote80603a5d82]
i have to disagree with you here. have you never fought an emotion?
edit i see what you are saying. i agree that "Gay men are attracted to men the same way a hetero man is attracted to a woman". i still believe that acting on those preferences/emotions is a choice. i could lust after a particular woman, but not act upon it.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 22:54:58
[quotea7884bbe73="shamash"][quotea7884bbe73="Veek"][quotea7884bbe73="shamash"]So you're comparing me to a fat chick?
I'd flame you, but that's against FiPG rules ;)
Ahaha, flame you, gay, the irony of it all.[/quotea7884bbe73]
You're slowly becoming one of my favorite members.[/quotea7884bbe73]
And Exclusiv, why post and ask for other peoples opinions, when you seem so angry about all the opinions you're hearing?[/quotea7884bbe73]
lol, I'm not angry by any means. If I come across as angry, I'm not, it's just the manner in which we are communicating.
shamash
19-12-2005 22:56:26
[quotef580d95b44="exclusiv"][quotef580d95b44="LucaBella"][quotef580d95b44="exclusiv"][quotef580d95b44="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quotef580d95b44]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.[/quotef580d95b44]
You state things as "facts" and call them science, but in truth, you haven't said a single correct "scientific fact" yet. you just state your beliefs and say its science. You said there is no gay gene. You don't know that. That is NOT a fact. You make up info, then build your argument onto that. That kind of reasoning always leads to trouble.[/quotef580d95b44]
the only thing i'm saying that is fact is that identical twins share 100% of genes. scientific FACT, lucabella. couple this with the fact that one twin can be straight and one can be gay and there is logically no gay gene, and even if there was, since both have the same genes, why aren't they both gay?!?!? this supports the notion that you aren't born gay (at least from a genetic standpoint)
thats the only thing i've stated as scientific or fact[/quotef580d95b44]
Did you read my reply to that? Not all identical twins have the same tastes, I gave an example using a friend of mine in the post I made. You're a bit slow catching on, though, I'll quote it for you.
[quotef580d95b44="shamash"]I think that identical twins issue is just a circumstance. Not all identical twins think the same. I'm actually friends with one of a pair of identical twins at my school, John. He puts gel in his hair, his brother doesnt. Hes nice, his brothers an asshole. He likes different types of clothes and music than his brother does. Identical twins have the same genes that construct certain things. Not everything.[/quotef580d95b44]
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 22:57:16
[quote1eec03ce34="exclusiv"][quote1eec03ce34="Wolfeman"][quote1eec03ce34="exclusiv"][quote1eec03ce34="Wolfeman"][quote1eec03ce34="exclusiv"][quote1eec03ce34="shamash"]^_^ It's really hard to open peoples minds. They're raised to believe this, and believe in it their whole lives.[/quote1eec03ce34]
Shamash I actually am very open minded, but I am the type of person that believes I have control over everything, that I can choose to do anything I want.
Why is that so arcane to you?[/quote1eec03ce34]
Control over everything huh? Most of the things you feel are uncontrolable. Like you get super jealous and you know its lame and you shouldn't be jealous but you still are. So don't try to pretend you are this all-controlling super being. People can't help who they are
I have a feeling gays aren't going away and you aren't going to change anytime soon. So you can try to accept it and live your life or you can dwell on it and let something you can't control in any way bother you...[/quote1eec03ce34]
emotions are COMPLETELY different from a lifestyle or choice of partner
and im not trying to eradicate gays[/quote1eec03ce34]
You couldn't be more wrong. Emotions are what drive us. If you lust after the same sex, you are gay. Lust is an emotion. Gay men are attracted to men the same way a hetero man is attracted to a woman.[/quote1eec03ce34]
i have to disagree with you here. have you never fought an emotion? emotions come from our individual character. once again, choosing a partner/lifestyle is extremely different[/quote1eec03ce34]
Yes you can fight emotions but at some point you have to accept them. You think if someone is super attracted to men, all the time, since they were young, they can just fight that back and get married and be ok?
kdollar
19-12-2005 22:58:02
so if its true people are born gay, then its so called natural, some people gay some people straight, black/white, short/tall, etc... you get the point.
then naturally they would be able to reproduce right....keep their existence going......
so if there was a country of strictly gay people, all males or all females doesnt matter, what would naturally end up happening???
i mean a black male and a white female, reproduce.
a short male and a tall female, reproduce.
a straight male, straight femaile reproduce.
a gay male, another gay male- ??? so far nothing, hasnt happened no way to produce a child.
now, a bunch of people are gonna flame me, i got nothing against gays, im sure shamash is a good guy, but im gonna go with its a choice, not a natural thing.
Wolfeman
19-12-2005 23:00:47
[quotebe09c91169="kdollar"]so if its true people are born gay, then its so called natural, some people gay some people straight, black/white, short/tall, etc... you get the point.
then naturally they would be able to reproduce right....keep their existence going......
so if there was a country of strictly gay people, all males or all females doesnt matter, what would naturally end up happening???
i mean a black male and a white female, reproduce.
a short male and a tall female, reproduce.
a straight male, straight femaile reproduce.
a gay male, another gay male- ??? so far nothing, hasnt happened no way to produce a child.
now, a bunch of people are gonna flame me, i got nothing against gays, im sure shamash is a good guy, but im gonna go with its a choice, not a natural thing.[/quotebe09c91169]
Stop saying unnatural when you mean a sin. This is a religious argument so stop trying to hide that...
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:01:44
[quote7693a7a20b="shamash"][quote7693a7a20b="exclusiv"][quote7693a7a20b="LucaBella"][quote7693a7a20b="exclusiv"][quote7693a7a20b="tylerc"]I asked a gay kid the question of whether not he thinks he was born gay.
His answer was Yes, why would I choose to be ridiculed and scorned in a society like ours?
Have some common sense, why would ANYONE just wake up one day and say "I think I want to be called a fag and have almost everyone think I'm a bad person!!"
Like other people said, you don't know what it's like to be gay so don't say that it's a choice.
Exclusiv--are you Catholic by any chance? From what I've found, Catholics usually believe that gay people choose to. Just curious, not stereotyping.[/quote7693a7a20b]
yes i am catholic, but if you notice, my argument is based upon science, not my religious beliefs.[/quote7693a7a20b]
You state things as "facts" and call them science, but in truth, you haven't said a single correct "scientific fact" yet. you just state your beliefs and say its science. You said there is no gay gene. You don't know that. That is NOT a fact. You make up info, then build your argument onto that. That kind of reasoning always leads to trouble.[/quote7693a7a20b]
the only thing i'm saying that is fact is that identical twins share 100% of genes. scientific FACT, lucabella. couple this with the fact that one twin can be straight and one can be gay and there is logically no gay gene, and even if there was, since both have the same genes, why aren't they both gay?!?!? this supports the notion that you aren't born gay (at least from a genetic standpoint)
thats the only thing i've stated as scientific or fact[/quote7693a7a20b]
Did you read my reply to that? Not all identical twins have the same tastes, I gave an example using a friend of mine in the post I made. You're a bit slow catching on, though, I'll quote it for you.
[quote7693a7a20b="shamash"]I think that identical twins issue is just a circumstance. Not all identical twins think the same. I'm actually friends with one of a pair of identical twins at my school, John. He puts gel in his hair, his brother doesnt. Hes nice, his brothers an asshole. He likes different types of clothes and music than his brother does. Identical twins have the same genes that construct certain things. Not everything.[/quote7693a7a20b][/quote7693a7a20b]
I'm not slow at catching on. You didn't make a valid point.
Are you trying to prove that the one twin was born to use a certain hair gel and the other wasn't?
You just further substantiated my point... that it isn't born, that it is a preference one chooses to act upon as a result of one's upbringing and personal choice
kdollar
19-12-2005 23:01:56
[quote9ba0978717="Wolfeman"][quote9ba0978717="kdollar"]so if its true people are born gay, then its so called natural, some people gay some people straight, black/white, short/tall, etc... you get the point.
then naturally they would be able to reproduce right....keep their existence going......
so if there was a country of strictly gay people, all males or all females doesnt matter, what would naturally end up happening???
i mean a black male and a white female, reproduce.
a short male and a tall female, reproduce.
a straight male, straight femaile reproduce.
a gay male, another gay male- ??? so far nothing, hasnt happened no way to produce a child.
now, a bunch of people are gonna flame me, i got nothing against gays, im sure shamash is a good guy, but im gonna go with its a choice, not a natural thing.[/quote9ba0978717]
Stop saying unnatural when you mean a sin. This is a religious argument so stop trying to hide that...[/quote9ba0978717]
no one mentioned religion here, so dont bring it up.
Admin
19-12-2005 23:02:36
I've got a great way to settle this.
-Of the openly gay posters on this board, the vast majority have donated
-Of the rest, the vast majority have NOT donated
ergo, gay people win.
Airkat
19-12-2005 23:03:08
Damn.. lost another one to gay people
lol
shamash
19-12-2005 23:03:33
[quoteff7462f360="exclusiv"]I'm not slow at catching on. You didn't make a valid point.
Are you trying to prove that the one twin was born to use a certain hair gel and the other wasn't?
You just further substantiated my point... that it isn't born, that it is a preference one chooses to act upon as a result of one's upbringing and personal choice[/quoteff7462f360]
I'm saying that they were born different. They both grew up in the same circumstances, same living conditions, and are totally different people.
Just because you are an identical twin does not mean you are the same person.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:05:02
[quote4bfe19f131="Admin"]I've got a great way to settle this.
-Of the openly gay posters on this board, the vast majority have donated
-Of the rest, the vast majority have NOT donated
ergo, gay people win.[/quote4bfe19f131]
I've been meaning to buy some people custom titles too ^_^ ;)
Also need to be changing mine, since I've been forced off the Warcrack addiction by Blizzard being fuckasses.
Admin
19-12-2005 23:07:28
[quoted7c412278c="exclusiv"]You just further substantiated my point... that it isn't born, that it is a preference one chooses to act upon as a result of one's upbringing and personal choice[/quoted7c412278c]
a) So if your preference is for the opposite sex, and you choose to act upon it, what makes that act more or less "unnatural" than another person acting upon his or her strongest-felt preference?
b) Who are you to declare one preference or another to be 'unnatural'? Greek men slept together frequently and their society was incredibly revolutionary. Nobody back then looked down upon it. Why should we now?
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:07:34
[quote78c9fbd6b3="shamash"][quote78c9fbd6b3="exclusiv"]I'm not slow at catching on. You didn't make a valid point.
Are you trying to prove that the one twin was born to use a certain hair gel and the other wasn't?
You just further substantiated my point... that it isn't born, that it is a preference one chooses to act upon as a result of one's upbringing and personal choice[/quote78c9fbd6b3]
I'm saying that they were born different. They both grew up in the same circumstances, same living conditions, and are totally different people.
Just because you are an identical twin does not mean you are the same person.[/quote78c9fbd6b3]
they did not have the exact same living conditions! they did not hang around the exact same people at the same time nor have all of the same experiences
i never said identical twins are the same people. i said having the same genes but yet having different preferences/tastes/etc points to the notion that their lifestyle is a product of their upbringing/experiences and personal decisions
shamash
19-12-2005 23:09:31
I believe that SOME ASPECTS of lifestyle are from upbringing/experiences. However, sexuality is not one of those. If it was, you would be able to change sexuality.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:11:25
[quoteed2c34960c="Admin"][quoteed2c34960c="exclusiv"]You just further substantiated my point... that it isn't born, that it is a preference one chooses to act upon as a result of one's upbringing and personal choice[/quoteed2c34960c]
a) So if your preference is for the opposite sex, and you choose to act upon it, what makes that act more or less "unnatural" than another person acting upon his or her strongest-felt preference?
b) Who are you to declare one preference or another to be 'unnatural'? Greek men slept together frequently and their society was incredibly revolutionary. Nobody back then looked down upon it. Why should we now?[/quoteed2c34960c]
a)its natural for that individual person. i respect that if it makes them happy and a better person.
b)but unnatural physically. what's so wrong with saying this?
shamash
19-12-2005 23:12:58
So are you against straight anal/oral sex?
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:16:39
[quotee7b0879909="shamash"]So are you against straight anal/oral sex?[/quotee7b0879909]
no
Admin
19-12-2005 23:17:25
one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:18:01
[quote38db952b76="Admin"]one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.[/quote38db952b76]
it is unnatural physically
shamash
19-12-2005 23:18:23
[quotefac02dfd2b="Admin"]one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.[/quotefac02dfd2b]
Which is why the fact that he says "no" makes it completely religious, and not scientific at all.
And I changed my title ^_^ Wonderwall is a great song, albeit a bit overdone, I love it.
tjwor
19-12-2005 23:19:56
[quote7160780c27="shamash"]I think that identical twins issue is just a circumstance. Not all identical twins think the same. I'm actually friends with one of a pair of identical twins at my school, John. He puts gel in his hair, his brother doesnt. Hes nice, his brothers an asshole. He likes different types of clothes and music than his brother does. Identical twins have the same genes that construct certain things. Not everything.[/quote7160780c27]
I think this is proving the opposite point you are trying to prove.... your saying gays are born gay...
So the twins were each born to do differnt things, like hair, attitudes, clothing preferences, music?
These are traits obtained through life, they are choices, this is not proving that they have different genes, just slightly different upbringins... Just becuase twins have exact genes doesn't mean they will like the same music, maybe they meet different people who liked different music, they are not born to each like different music, it is a choice influenced by something in their life...
I'm not picking a side in this topic, but I don't think this is a very good argument for what you are tryign to make it...
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:21:04
[quote484093d8a7="shamash"][quote484093d8a7="Admin"]one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.[/quote484093d8a7]
Which is why the fact that he says "no" makes it completely religious, and not scientific at all.
And I changed my title ^_^ Wonderwall is a great song, albeit a bit overdone, I love it.[/quote484093d8a7]
its not religious at all. the natural/unnatural/utility/pleasure designation is merely common sense.
only thing im saying is that i believe it is a choice
preferences and tastes are a result of upbringing/experiences. acting on those preferences and tastes is by choice
shamash
19-12-2005 23:24:50
[quoteb5667e2187="exclusiv"][quoteb5667e2187="shamash"][quoteb5667e2187="Admin"]one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.[/quoteb5667e2187]
Which is why the fact that he says "no" makes it completely religious, and not scientific at all.
And I changed my title ^_^ Wonderwall is a great song, albeit a bit overdone, I love it.[/quoteb5667e2187]
its not religious at all. the natural/unnatural/utility/pleasure argument is merely common sense.
only thing im saying is that i believe it is a choice[/quoteb5667e2187]
That means that if straight people have the same sex that gay people have, it's a wrong choice and you're against all of them.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:25:20
[quotec05ff182a1="tjwor"][quotec05ff182a1="shamash"]I think that identical twins issue is just a circumstance. Not all identical twins think the same. I'm actually friends with one of a pair of identical twins at my school, John. He puts gel in his hair, his brother doesnt. Hes nice, his brothers an asshole. He likes different types of clothes and music than his brother does. Identical twins have the same genes that construct certain things. Not everything.[/quotec05ff182a1]
I think this is proving the opposite point you are trying to prove.... your saying gays are born gay...
So the twins were each born to do differnt things, like hair, attitudes, clothing preferences, music?
These are traits obtained through life, they are choices, this is not proving that they have different genes, just slightly different upbringins... Just becuase twins have exact genes doesn't mean they will like the same music, maybe they meet different people who liked different music, they are not born to each like different music, it is a choice influenced by something in their life...
I'm not picking a side in this topic, but I don't think this is a very good argument for what you are tryign to make it...[/quotec05ff182a1]
[quotec05ff182a1="shamash"]I believe that SOME ASPECTS of lifestyle are from upbringing/experiences. However, sexuality is not one of those. If it was, you would be able to change sexuality.[/quotec05ff182a1]
Adding a little text so I'm not quoting without any ^_^
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:29:19
[quote6b396f5b00="shamash"][quote6b396f5b00="exclusiv"][quote6b396f5b00="shamash"][quote6b396f5b00="Admin"]one could easily argue that straight oral or anal sex is equally "unnatural" as gay sex if you're speaking strictly physically.[/quote6b396f5b00]
Which is why the fact that he says "no" makes it completely religious, and not scientific at all.
And I changed my title ^_^ Wonderwall is a great song, albeit a bit overdone, I love it.[/quote6b396f5b00]
its not religious at all. the natural/unnatural/utility/pleasure argument is merely common sense.
only thing im saying is that i believe it is a choice[/quote6b396f5b00]
That means that if straight people have the same sex that gay people have, it's a wrong choice and you're against all of them.[/quote6b396f5b00]
I'm not against gay people. I'm not against people doing those acts. I enjoy oral sex with my girlfriend. Is it unnatural and wrong in that sense?... yes. Who cares, I choose to do it and it makes me damn happy.
Where I differ from you is that I choose to do everything.
You believe you are born that way.
Two ways of seeing things.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:30:59
So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?
kdollar
19-12-2005 23:31:55
obviously it is a choice, b/c if we had to rely on homosexuals to continue the existence of humans, well we wouldnt make it very long would we, its a choice........or ellen and her girlfriend would be makin little baby talk show hosts.
i like ellens show by the way. and shes gay!
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:33:31
[quoteae7dd14278="shamash"]So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?[/quoteae7dd14278]
I never bashed them or called them bad.
But yes, I am just as unnatural and wrong as any other person at times. I hold myself accountable for everything I do because I choose to do it.
What exactly are you getting at though? The only thing I disagree with you on is the birth vs choice stance.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:35:01
Well, then, here's where I'll end.
Gay people CHOOSE to have gay sex.
However, they do not CHOOSE to be gay. They do not CHOOSE to not be attracted to women, they simply are not.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:37:14
[quotef6b9105c47="shamash"]Well, then, here's where I'll end.
Gay people CHOOSE to have gay sex.
However, they do not CHOOSE to be gay. They do not CHOOSE to not be attracted to women, they simply are not.[/quotef6b9105c47]
nice! got you to use the word choose!
all this time I thought you were being held captive as a sex slave...
shamash
19-12-2005 23:38:20
What?
EVERYONE chooses to have sex.
Straight people CHOOSE to have straight sex.
However, straight people are born attracted to the opposite gender.
Did you even read my post, or just see that one word?
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:44:27
[quote7637ec77bc="shamash"]What?
EVERYONE chooses to have sex.
Straight people CHOOSE to have straight sex.
However, straight people are born attracted to the opposite gender.
Did you even read my post, or just see that one word?[/quote7637ec77bc]
shamash, i understand what you were saying, LOL
i don't choose to not be physically attracted to overweight females, much like you don't choose to not be attracted to females. valid point
i still believe its based on experiences and developed preferences, so in that sense i suppose it might not be a choice, but I still don't believe in it being born though.
i was just making a joke in last post
shamash
19-12-2005 23:46:00
Well, I'm not attracted to overweight males. As I said, some things are circumstancial.
However, I'm not attracted to overweight or underweight females.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:50:03
[quote1ca6b238f1="shamash"]Well, I'm not attracted to overweight males. As I said, some things are circumstancial.
However, I'm not attracted to overweight or underweight females.[/quote1ca6b238f1]
i know. if you think about it like that, i can see how you can say its not a choice. before I didn't really think about it as if you don't choose the preferences you develop. if you had said it like that a long time ago, I would have agreed in that sense.
still disagree with you on the being born thing, but thats where i gotta agree to disagree.
theysayjump
19-12-2005 23:51:42
[quote7aa8150d08="exclusiv"][quote7aa8150d08="shamash"]So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?[/quote7aa8150d08]
I never bashed them or called them bad.
But yes, I am just as unnatural and wrong as any other person at times. I hold myself accountable for everything I do because I choose to do it.
What exactly are you getting at though? The only thing I disagree with you on is the birth vs choice stance.[/quote7aa8150d08]
Are you the kind of guy who doesn't/wouldn't hug one of your male friends?
I'm straight but I hug guys and I've kissed guys before, but I have no attraction to males at all. Me kissing or hugging another male doesn't make me gay just because I chose to do it.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:53:29
Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?
shamash
19-12-2005 23:54:11
[quote0e40b30343="theysayjump"][quote0e40b30343="exclusiv"][quote0e40b30343="shamash"]So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?[/quote0e40b30343]
I never bashed them or called them bad.
But yes, I am just as unnatural and wrong as any other person at times. I hold myself accountable for everything I do because I choose to do it.
What exactly are you getting at though? The only thing I disagree with you on is the birth vs choice stance.[/quote0e40b30343]
Are you the kind of guy who doesn't/wouldn't hug one of your male friends?
I'm straight but I hug guys and I've kissed guys before, but I have no attraction to males at all. Me kissing or hugging another male doesn't make me gay just because I chose to do it.[/quote0e40b30343]
I made out with a straight guy once during spin the bottle O Fun times.
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:55:45
[quote5d3aab9384="theysayjump"][quote5d3aab9384="exclusiv"][quote5d3aab9384="shamash"]So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?[/quote5d3aab9384]
I never bashed them or called them bad.
But yes, I am just as unnatural and wrong as any other person at times. I hold myself accountable for everything I do because I choose to do it.
What exactly are you getting at though? The only thing I disagree with you on is the birth vs choice stance.[/quote5d3aab9384]
Are you the kind of guy who doesn't/wouldn't hug one of your male friends?
I'm straight but I hug guys and I've kissed guys before, but I have no attraction to males at all. Me kissing or hugging another male doesn't make me gay just because I chose to do it.[/quote5d3aab9384]
you argue funny and that doesn't make a point or prove anything. I never suggested that choosing to engage in non-sexual signs of gestures with another person of the same sex made one gay
theysayjump
19-12-2005 23:57:36
[quote1d0b8140a9="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quote1d0b8140a9]
Me? No. For the simple fact that I'm not attracted to males. I wouldn't cheat on my wife for the simple fact that (not only is my love for her stronger than the urge to jeopordise our marriage for a fling) but I'm not attracted to any other females. I think that other females are attractive, but that doesn't automatically mean I am attracted to them.
shamash
19-12-2005 23:58:57
[quotecf9c395e58="theysayjump"][quotecf9c395e58="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quotecf9c395e58]
Me? No. For the simple fact that I'm not attracted to males. I wouldn't cheat on my wife for the simple fact that (not only is my love for her stronger than the urge to jeopordise our marriage for a fling) but I'm not attracted to any other females. I think that other females are attractive, but that doesn't automatically mean I am attracted to them.[/quotecf9c395e58]
I was actually asking Exclusiv to help him realize that it's not a choice. You already agree P
exclusiv
19-12-2005 23:59:43
[quoteb75b2e0ed4="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quoteb75b2e0ed4]
Yes, I think a person could develop a preference for a same sex partner and act upon it. If it was what they wanted and made them happy, they could choose that lifestyle.
theysayjump
20-12-2005 00:00:38
[quote48370273d0="exclusiv"][quote48370273d0="theysayjump"][quote48370273d0="exclusiv"][quote48370273d0="shamash"]So, technically, you are just as bad as the gay people you're bashing and calling unnatural and wrong?[/quote48370273d0]
I never bashed them or called them bad.
But yes, I am just as unnatural and wrong as any other person at times. I hold myself accountable for everything I do because I choose to do it.
What exactly are you getting at though? The only thing I disagree with you on is the birth vs choice stance.[/quote48370273d0]
Are you the kind of guy who doesn't/wouldn't hug one of your male friends?
I'm straight but I hug guys and I've kissed guys before, but I have no attraction to males at all. Me kissing or hugging another male doesn't make me gay just because I chose to do it.[/quote48370273d0]
you argue funny and that doesn't make a point or prove anything. I never suggested that choosing to engage in non-sexual signs of gestures with another person of the same sex made one gay[/quote48370273d0]
So you think that people can perform homosexual acts and not be gay? I do, but I was under the impression by your points you have made that you choose to be gay,therefore if you perform sexual acts then you too are gay.
shamash
20-12-2005 00:00:56
[quote29dcbc03b5="exclusiv"][quote29dcbc03b5="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quote29dcbc03b5]
Yes, I think a person could develop a preference for a same sex partner and act upon it. If it was what they wanted and made them happy, they could choose that lifestyle.[/quote29dcbc03b5]
If it's what makes them happy, isn't that what's natural for them(born with them)?
halfbreed
20-12-2005 00:01:46
I agree with the first post of this thread completely.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 00:02:03
[quoteee3def4859="shamash"][quoteee3def4859="theysayjump"][quoteee3def4859="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quoteee3def4859]
Me? No. For the simple fact that I'm not attracted to males. I wouldn't cheat on my wife for the simple fact that (not only is my love for her stronger than the urge to jeopordise our marriage for a fling) but I'm not attracted to any other females. I think that other females are attractive, but that doesn't automatically mean I am attracted to them.[/quoteee3def4859]
I was actually asking Exclusiv to help him realize that it's not a choice. You already agree P[/quoteee3def4859]
If you notice in a recent previous post, I told you that I could see how you could say that it isn't a choice in that one develops a preference.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 00:04:37
[quote83f7935552="shamash"][quote83f7935552="exclusiv"][quote83f7935552="shamash"]Well, if it's a choice.
Do you think you could simply choose, and become gay, if you wanted?[/quote83f7935552]
Yes, I think a person could develop a preference for a same sex partner and act upon it. If it was what they wanted and made them happy, they could choose that lifestyle.[/quote83f7935552]
If it's what makes them happy, isn't that what's natural for them(born with them)?[/quote83f7935552]
I said previously that it's natural for them as an individual. It is right for them, personally. I still believe it is a result of their experiences and upbringing, however.
shamash
20-12-2005 00:09:04
Oh well. I don't think it's my choice, but that's okay.
theysayjump
20-12-2005 00:11:39
Can't we all just get along?
![]("4b9c48574e)
http//www.jordansplace.net/scrapbook/vegas/group_hug.jpg[" alt=""/img4b9c48574e]
shamash
20-12-2005 00:13:57
TSJ, why are those all white people? I'm offended.
We can only all get along if it's like this
![]("cf2c237268)
http//schools.moe.edu.sg/twps/images/Index/Different%20Races%20-%20clear.jpg[" alt=""/imgcf2c237268]
theysayjump
20-12-2005 00:14:39
Umm....those are kids you sick bastard.
shamash
20-12-2005 00:17:12
![]("c733a57375)
http//www.maine4h.umaine.edu/168080bsmall.jpg[" alt=""/imgc733a57375]
And what's wrong with those being kids?
What do you think getting along means?
theysayjump
20-12-2005 00:20:36
Just stop Ok? I think you've gone far enough don't you?
shamash
20-12-2005 00:21:45
What was wrong with the second picture x
slease
20-12-2005 00:51:41
The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.
Wolfeman
20-12-2005 01:46:24
[quoted9b0d62cf1="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quoted9b0d62cf1]
Land of the free? Whoever told you that was your enemy...
Also, midgets are next (
agroman
20-12-2005 04:43:24
Can't we all just have an orgy?
agroman
20-12-2005 04:44:32
[quote1ec6ce4240="Wolfeman"][quote1ec6ce4240="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quote1ec6ce4240]
Land of the free? Whoever told you that was your enemy...
Also, midgets are next ([/quote1ec6ce4240]
Why do RATM lyrics keep showing up in these threads?
http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?p=276211#276211
Also, midget porn is the best!
JUNIOR6886
20-12-2005 05:26:26
[quote283d52d12c="shamash"]Are black people born black?[/quote283d52d12c]
Actually I had a while to think about it and I choose to be black so i could one day become a member of G-G-G-G-GUNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
![]("283d52d12c)
http//www.phatchains.com/images/products/chains/medium/gunit014.jpg[" alt=""/img283d52d12c]
roll
Race and homosexuality don't have as much in common as "gay rights" supporters believe. There is no categorical proof that gayness is a natural trait and not just a poor decision by a disguided mind.... what if [img="283d52d12c]http//www.wilper.com/images/killer.jpg[" alt=""/img283d52d12c] this nice fellow claimed to have been born to be a natural killer. Does that make killing right? Fuck no. There are cases where gay people have been able to be converted back to being straight. Even the ultra no-way extreme possibility of natural gayness doesnt excuse it shrug
shamash
20-12-2005 07:17:14
In my opinion, gay people who claim to convert to straightness are really just supressing their own personal instincts, and doing what feels wrong to them.
Also, I don't think it's right to compare homosexuality to murder.
geej86
20-12-2005 09:45:36
[quote3a5d50de86]There is no categorical proof that gayness is a natural trait and not just a [b3a5d50de86][i3a5d50de86]poor decision[/i3a5d50de86][/b3a5d50de86] by a [i3a5d50de86]disguided mind[/i3a5d50de86][/quote3a5d50de86]
w t f[/size3a5d50de86]
I just read through this entire thread and I got to say, some of the responses really surprise me, very similarly to the evolution thread awhile back.
I walk outside and see an attractive women walking down the street not the guy walking a few feet to the left. Some people see the man... It's not like a gay man is 'giving in' or suppressing his heterosexual thoughts - Wheather born this way or not its definitly a natural thing, an involuntary force within each of us. Of course I don't have any more say than the rest of you on this topic being a heterosexual male, but atleast the few gay people I know would agree with me on this and that must count for something, correct if I'm wrong there.
tylerc
20-12-2005 10:22:04
How can you be so ignorant to say homosexuality is a "poor decision by a [b8424a1db5d]mis[/b8424a1db5d]guided mind".
Ignorance often breeds contempt, and judging by your ability to spell, I'd say you are incredibly ignorant and naive.
Iloveipods2
20-12-2005 10:40:19
[quote387e2c07ba="shamash"]TSJ, why are those all white people? I'm offended.
We can only all get along if it's like this
![]("387e2c07ba)
http//schools.moe.edu.sg/twps/images/Index/Different%20Races%20-%20clear.jpg[" alt=""/img387e2c07ba][/quote387e2c07ba]
hellz yes, eventually in 100 years the US is going to look like that [not literally, but you get what I mean]
shamash
20-12-2005 10:52:11
I thought so too, but TSJ thought otherwise -_-
J4320
20-12-2005 10:53:49
I haven't read through this thread but...
Shamash, are you gay?
shamash
20-12-2005 10:54:49
yup.
read the thread, it's kinda funny now that it's over.
Iloveipods2
20-12-2005 10:59:12
IMO
A) There's nothing wrong w/ gay people
B) People who are religious and use the bible as an excuse to dislike gay ppl take that phrase to serious, in the same chapter(i think next page, i'll look it up) It also states that cities need to stone to death bad children and that it is okay for fathers to sell their daughters.
C) Only lil 8th graders use the word "gay" in a deragatory way, which many schools now are working hard to eliminate.
D) People are born gay. In Discover magazine(like over a year ago, it had the cover w/ some star on it) they compared it to being born left or right handed. Many people are born right handed and a few are left handed. But leftys can also learn to to write with their right hand to the point of perfection. Also during puberty many left handers become right handers and vice versa. That's why there's so many kids who claim to be "ambidexterous" while they take preference over using hands for certain activities "write with right hand, eat w/ left hand). This is all sort of like human and sexual preference.
Then they had an interview with some gay guy who hated extreme gay guys, the type that wear earings and wear extremly tight shirts and he states that it put a negative image on gay and lesbains since that is what is mostly portrayed in the media etc etc. w/e i'm getting tired lemme just go find the article(lol if it's possible)
One thing that I've heard mention that does make sense though came from two identical twins. One was gay the other was a total Pimp. The straight one was explaining to me that he has read(yeah i know) it's impossible to be just gay, that truly all humans must want to reproduce, so therefore they're actually bi, like the ancient greeks(lil boys though) and romans(partners on battle field)
yeah i just typed alot, and most likely mixed something up, don't flame me for it, just an opinion, and i'm not going to argue anything. Just wanted to become more open-minded. i'm not saying you have to accept what I typed, but to consider it or learn from it
All I gotta say to sum up this thread, is that I love everyone. I love everyone no matter what race, gender, sexual prefrence, skin color, dissability they have. I was brought up to love everyone and appreciate everyone because each person is unique in their own way and there will never be anyone identical to someone else. I get along with pretty much everyone, and never have been in a physical fight.
With that said...
![]("5ca4fcb6d6)
http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/daae5b07aeb0bb8ea92d823094a902c6.gif[" alt=""/img5ca4fcb6d6]
shamash
20-12-2005 11:02:16
Veek, if ya love me so much, why don't ya give me that free gateway laptop in your signature ;)
[quote1e1fc7ed47="shamash"]Veek, if ya love me so much, why don't ya give me that free gateway laptop in your signature ;)[/quote1e1fc7ed47]
shock shock x x
J4320
20-12-2005 11:04:51
[quote20b5d3d35a="Iloveipods2"]IMO
A) There's nothing wrong w/ gay people
[b20b5d3d35a]
B) People who are religious and use the bible as an excuse to dislike gay ppl take that phrase to serious, in the same chapter(i think next page, i'll look it up) It also states that cities need to stone to death bad children and that it is okay for fathers to sell their daughters.
[/b20b5d3d35a]
C) Only lil 8th graders use the word "gay" in a deragatory way, which many schools now are working hard to eliminate.
D) People are born gay. In Discover magazine(like over a year ago, it had the cover w/ some star on it) they compared it to being born left or right handed. Many people are born right handed and a few are left handed. But leftys can also learn to to write with their right hand to the point of perfection. Also during puberty many left handers become right handers and vice versa. That's why there's so many kids who claim to be "ambidexterous" while they take preference over using hands for certain activities "write with right hand, eat w/ left hand). This is all sort of like human and sexual preference.
Then they had an interview with some gay guy who hated extreme gay guys, the type that wear earings and wear extremly tight shirts and he states that it put a negative image on gay and lesbains since that is what is mostly portrayed in the media etc etc. w/e i'm getting tired lemme just go find the article(lol if it's possible)
One thing that I've heard mention that does make sense though came from two identical twins. One was gay the other was a total Pimp. The straight one was explaining to me that he has read(yeah i know) it's impossible to be just gay, that truly all humans must want to reproduce, so therefore they're actually bi, like the ancient greeks(lil boys though) and romans(partners on battle field)
yeah i just typed alot, and most likely mixed something up, don't flame me for it, just an opinion, and i'm not going to argue anything. Just wanted to become more open-minded. i'm not saying you have to accept what I typed, but to consider it or learn from it[/quote20b5d3d35a]
That was in the Old Testament and that was for the Israelites, a long time before Christ came. The Jewish people took the old laws extremely seriously and they were very strict. When Christ came, he taught much differently than that. Selling your daughters and stoning your kids is not meant for Christians. That part of the Bible is historical, not something we base our beliefs off of. And I don't think it says it's okay to sell your daughters anywhere in the Bible. Please get your facts straight before you say stuff like that.
shamash
20-12-2005 11:06:29
oops
I'm considering trying to do FDPC.
I actually just logged in and noticed that I'm not green on it. Maybe I could sign up under someone O
I've never finished a freepay site before though, and 10 refs is a lot.
I love the laptop though. I'd strongly suggest doing tha site. I thought 10 ref's was going to be hard. It wasn't. Before I knew it, I was "trading" for my last referral. All of my other referrals were friends. D
shamash
20-12-2005 11:09:20
But I don't have many friends with CCs who can do sites. I'm pretty sure I'd be completely relying on trading, meaning I'd be spending upwards of 200 dollars for it, which scares me when there's the possibility of it not going through, being scammed, and the hella long approval on Freepay.
Wait until the Holidays pass. Try to at least get 5 random people from the Internet to do it, without having to pay them. Trade with the rest.
shamash
20-12-2005 11:12:21
I could try to organize litradesli, as well.
Or do the good ol "looking for $10/ref" technique.
shamash
20-12-2005 11:14:28
If anyone was actually willing to sign up for $10.
You could always make your real life friends sign up for me P Sucks being 16, nobody has debit cards x. Except for the fact that I'm 18 when doing sites ;O
My RL friends are done signing up for my sites. Haha.
Iloveipods2
20-12-2005 11:17:58
sorry dude, i'm a catholic and have read the bible countless times here's the passages, look them up
Okay to sell daughter
"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do" Ex. 217
Stone to death
"And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deuteronomy 21 something
so , yes I completly agree with except for your statement that i've just disproved. wink i'm agreed that you shouldn't take the bible literally. i'm sure if you'd have read the bible you'd have remembered those passages.
shamash
20-12-2005 11:19:22
[quote4ed7134fe5="Veek"]My RL friends are done signing up for my sites. Haha.[/quote4ed7134fe5]
Ive gotten like 3 refs from RL friends, the rest were RL friends. like 2 were trades. most my trades are me getting $$ for signing up
J4320
20-12-2005 11:35:41
[quotea9953102be="Iloveipods2"]sorry dude, i'm a catholic and have read the bible countless times here's the passages, look them up
Okay to sell daughter
"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do" Ex. 217
Stone to death
"And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deuteronomy 21 something
so , yes I completly agree with except for your statement that i've just disproved. wink i'm agreed that you shouldn't take the bible literally. i'm sure if you'd have read the bible you'd have remembered those passages.[/quotea9953102be]
You're taking the Bible out of context. It doesn't say that it's okay to sell your daughter.
Search for your verse with Control F and read up.[=http//www.demonbuster.com/slaves.html]Search for your verse with Control F and read up. It isn't saying that it's okay to sell your daughter. It was just Hebrew rules and such. Those were rules for the Jewish people before Christ came. They aren't rules for us.
So basically what your doing is taking verses from the Old Testament and you are saying that the rules still apply to us when they don't.
Wolfeman
20-12-2005 11:43:32
[quotefb5e77949a="J4320"][quotefb5e77949a="Iloveipods2"]sorry dude, i'm a catholic and have read the bible countless times here's the passages, look them up
Okay to sell daughter
"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do" Ex. 217
Stone to death
"And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deuteronomy 21 something
so , yes I completly agree with except for your statement that i've just disproved. wink i'm agreed that you shouldn't take the bible literally. i'm sure if you'd have read the bible you'd have remembered those passages.[/quotefb5e77949a]
You're taking the Bible out of context. It doesn't say that it's okay to sell your daughter.
Search for your verse with Control F and read up.[=http//www.demonbuster.com/slaves.html]Search for your verse with Control F and read up. It isn't saying that it's okay to sell your daughter. It was just Hebrew rules and such. Those were rules for the Jewish people before Christ came. They aren't rules for us.
So basically what your doing is taking verses from the Old Testament and you are saying that the rules still apply to us when they don't.[/quotefb5e77949a]
The point is a lot of people take the bible word for word (when it fits their fight). Its a stonable offense to worship a false god or disobey your parents. The bible is taken to literally. The Catholic church has done a lot to change the bible to fit their needs and who knows what they've kept hidden.
Aurelius
20-12-2005 11:50:03
well i think homosexuality is something you're born with and that it's definitely not immoral or wrong.. and even though the catholic church doesn't like it, do you think most gay people care? i went to a catholic school and after seeing what all those people who suck up to the priests and stuff do to cheat the students, i decided to not become catholic and instead went to a public high school jsut to get away from religion altogether.. i guess i'm biased against religon cause of this lishrugsli
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 11:53:09
[quote2c5b97cfb9]
The point is a lot of people take the bible word for word (when it fits their fight). Its a stonable offense to worship a false god or disobey your parents. The bible is taken to literally. The Catholic church has done a lot to change the bible to fit their needs and who knows what they've kept hidden.[/quote2c5b97cfb9]
[b2c5b97cfb9]The bible is taken to literally. The Catholic church has done a lot to change the bible to fit their needs and who knows what they've kept hidden[/b2c5b97cfb9] <-- thats true. Offense to worship (pray, etc) a false god (including Virgin Mary, etc - which is not false, but NOT GOD)
There is nothing wrong with being gay. Gay people are people just like anyone else.
I'd like to see someone who is straight go in the other direction and still tell me if its a choice.
For example
Do straight men find other men sexually attractive? I highly doubt it. I certainly don't and neither do any other straight men I know.
If you are straight, try being gay...see how much of a choice it really is. P
tylerc
20-12-2005 12:59:50
It's funny, because the Catholic church, who is so anti-gay, has thousands of molestation accusations against their priests.
Not from girls, though, but guys.
Hypocritcal? Very. Ironic? Very.
JUNIOR6886
20-12-2005 13:16:28
Wow. This thread got big FAST shock
[quotefc3548a0bb="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quotefc3548a0bb]
Gays will never be fully accepted into society. The conservative right simply won't stand for it. There are some things that will never change....
An odd thing about my (and many others) position on homosexuality is that while 2 guys showing affection (hand holding kissing etc...) is revolting, I dont find 2 ATTRACTIVE girls showing affection disgusting at all. lol
tylerc
20-12-2005 13:34:24
So you make no sense, more or less.
J4320
20-12-2005 13:39:59
u maek no sence
tylerc
20-12-2005 13:45:18
x !!!!!!!111111
J4320
20-12-2005 13:47:28
Nothing personal. P
Whenever I see someone saying "make no sense" I say that.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 13:57:42
too many pges for me to read
but i know now that I don't believe in Santa Claus
exclusiv
20-12-2005 14:00:30
[quote41b13767bf="JUNIOR6886"]Wow. This thread got big FAST shock
[quote41b13767bf="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quote41b13767bf]
Gays will never be fully accepted into society. The conservative right simply won't stand for it. There are some things that will never change....
An odd thing about my (and many others) position on homosexuality is that while 2 guys showing affection (hand holding kissing etc...) is revolting, I dont find 2 ATTRACTIVE girls showing affection disgusting at all. lol[/quote41b13767bf]
2 attractive girls showing affection isn't disgusting either to me
me, being an alpha male with a solid, cut body, STILL cannot reach the level of physical beauty of particular women's bodies. the male body pales in comparison to the female body. anyone who thinks otherwise has mental issues.
man on man is not beautiful, it is disturbing. female on female is beautiful. whether the action is right or wrong, what is wrong with saying that? it's two completely different interactions between different specimens.
Aurelius
20-12-2005 14:12:30
please inflate your e-penis more?
tylerc
20-12-2005 14:19:49
Yes, please.
Gay is gay, no getting around it, so if you accept lesbians, you would be a moron to not accept gay males.
Not saying you have to watch gay males have sex, but you should be tolerant of them and just think of them as any other couple.
Aurelius
20-12-2005 14:23:40
even our govenor, the big dumbo ahnold, said that he didn't care what the heck people do in their bedrooms... just live your own life and dont' try to tell other people how to live theirs... if they choose not to accept the "good news" of jesus christ then you can rest easy thinking that your god will make them burn in hell... no one ever asked you to force your beliefs on others....
exclusiv
20-12-2005 14:44:08
[quoteca4c849ff5="tylerc"]Yes, please.
Gay is gay, no getting around it, so if you accept lesbians, you would be a moron to not accept gay males.
Not saying you have to watch gay males have sex, but you should be tolerant of them and just think of them as any other couple.[/quoteca4c849ff5]
i am tolerant of gays, males or females
i just dont want to see gay males engaging in sensual acts, but i dont mind females because it appeals to me. what is wrong with that? maybe you don't like watching rhinos or hippos have sex? same thing. i don't care about it, just dont want to see it.
im not trying to force any beliefs, many of you keep trying to spin it
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 14:51:13
Comparing homosexuality to being a murderer is heinous (to whomever that was, I have forgotten).
If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.
exclusiv, please try to be gay if it is such a choice.
If you tried, here is what would happen sure you could have sex with a man, but would it feel good to you? No. Would you like it and want to do it again? Probably not.
Therefore, you are not gay and you cannot be gay. You cannot choose to be gay, you can only choose to engage in sexual activity with the same sex.
If you believe it to be immoral and unnatural then surely this is a religious argument and not based on science at all.
There has been much research on the "gay gene" much like there has been research to cure cancer. Just because a cure has not been found for cancer does not mean it doesn't exist, nor does it mean that a gay gene does not exist simply because it has not been pinpointed yet.
Oh and to all those posters simply posting "I agree with the first post" in order to declare your blazing heterosexuality....way to add something useful to the discussion, people.
hehehhehe
20-12-2005 14:51:46
[quotef07527bb99="Aurelius"]please inflate your e-penis more?[/quotef07527bb99]
LOL. A sentence like "me, being an alpha male with a solid, cut body" coming from a straight male sounds very fishy.
Wolfeman
20-12-2005 14:54:50
[quote43fd08e27e="sparrowsingreek"][b43fd08e27e]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/b43fd08e27e][/quote43fd08e27e]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 14:56:44
[quotecb0dd076f8="Wolfeman"][quotecb0dd076f8="sparrowsingreek"][bcb0dd076f8]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/bcb0dd076f8][/quotecb0dd076f8]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quotecb0dd076f8]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be straight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 14:57:26
[quoteaec5d5f3ce="sparrowsingreek"][quoteaec5d5f3ce="Wolfeman"][quoteaec5d5f3ce="sparrowsingreek"][baec5d5f3ce]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/baec5d5f3ce][/quoteaec5d5f3ce]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quoteaec5d5f3ce]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be strsight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quoteaec5d5f3ce]
wouldn't you be a lesbian?
or did you have a sex change? =P
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 14:59:41
[quote5c30958f87="sparrowsingreek"][quote5c30958f87="Wolfeman"][quote5c30958f87="sparrowsingreek"][b5c30958f87]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/b5c30958f87][/quote5c30958f87]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quote5c30958f87]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be straight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quote5c30958f87]
Whats your point?
I mean, you're lesbian and you are lesbian becuase YOU LIKE IT
If you ask ME?
Would I be gay if I could? I will say NO, why? becuase I'm straight and I like WOMAN
so you don't really have a point
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 14:59:59
[quote43b08b3665="EatChex89"][quote43b08b3665="sparrowsingreek"][quote43b08b3665="Wolfeman"][quote43b08b3665="sparrowsingreek"][b43b08b3665]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/b43b08b3665][/quote43b08b3665]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quote43b08b3665]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be strsight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quote43b08b3665]
wouldn't you be a lesbian?
or did you have a sex change? =P[/quote43b08b3665]
Yes, I am a lesbian...but I can identify myself by saying I am gay, can I not?
You are straight and a woman is straight. There is not two different words to define your straightness based on gender, is there?
Thus, I can say I am gay if I so choose. If you want to call me a lesbian, fine with me, too.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 15:01:43
[quote5f60a19383="cartrenroy"]
Whats your point?
I mean, you are gay and you are gay becuase you like it
If you ask ME?
Would I be gay if I could? I will say NO, why? becuase I'm straight and I like WOMAN
so you don't really have a point[/quote5f60a19383]
My point was to the original poster purporting that being gay is a choice. I was pointing out that if it was, indeed, a choice...then gays who (for whatever reason) wanted to be straight could do it successfully.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 15:07:44
[quotec1300006b7="sparrowsingreek"][quotec1300006b7="EatChex89"][quotec1300006b7="sparrowsingreek"][quotec1300006b7="Wolfeman"][quotec1300006b7="sparrowsingreek"][bc1300006b7]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/bc1300006b7][/quotec1300006b7]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quotec1300006b7]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be strsight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quotec1300006b7]
wouldn't you be a lesbian?
or did you have a sex change? =P[/quotec1300006b7]
Yes, I am a lesbian...but I can identify myself by saying I am gay, can I not?
You are straight and a woman is straight. There is not two different words to define your straightness based on gender, is there?
Thus, I can say I am gay if I so choose. If you want to call me a lesbian, fine with me, too.[/quotec1300006b7]
but lesbian is a much cooler word.
it flows off the tongue. besides. lesbians are sexy (usu.)
EatChex89
20-12-2005 15:09:23
[quote0ecb5ea50b="Veek"]So are gay men.[/quote0ecb5ea50b]
not to me they aren't.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 15:10:13
Lesbians are the sex.
Gay men are teh sexiness.
And the straights can be sexy too...sometimes. (j/k everyone can be sexy!).
Now let's go watch Brokeback Mountain, woo! Can't wait.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 15:10:40
[quotecf8fe97ec3="sparrowsingreek"]Lesbians are the sex.
Gay men are teh sexiness.
And the straights can be sexy too...sometimes. (j/k everyone can be sexy!).
Now let's go watch Brokeback Mountain, woo! Can't wait.[/quotecf8fe97ec3]
the only reason i'd watch that is to see some boobies ;D
to quote king kong
Are there boobies?
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:11:54
[quote51f3e11787="sparrowsingreek"]Comparing homosexuality to being a murderer is heinous (to whomever that was, I have forgotten).
If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.
exclusiv, please try to be gay if it is such a choice.
If you tried, here is what would happen sure you could have sex with a man, but would it feel good to you? No. Would you like it and want to do it again? Probably not.
Therefore, you are not gay and you cannot be gay. You cannot choose to be gay, you can only choose to engage in sexual activity with the same sex.
If you believe it to be immoral and unnatural then surely this is a religious argument and not based on science at all.
There has been much research on the "gay gene" much like there has been research to cure cancer. Just because a cure has not been found for cancer does not mean it doesn't exist, nor does it mean that a gay gene does not exist simply because it has not been pinpointed yet.
Oh and to all those posters simply posting "I agree with the first post" in order to declare your blazing heterosexuality....way to add something useful to the discussion, people.[/quote51f3e11787]
How are you going to find a gay gene if identical twins have the same genes and there are many cases where one twin is gay and the other is not. They have the same genes. Please don't say there might be a gay gene. Not possible. Could be some other uncontrollable factor, but it's not a gene.
And if comparing murderers (in the sense that some can't choose) to gays is heinous, so is comparing gay research to cancer research.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 15:12:08
You're too sexy for this thread. Off with you!
Iloveipods2
20-12-2005 15:12:18
[quote88ede71734="J4320"][quote88ede71734="Iloveipods2"]sorry dude, i'm a catholic and have read the bible countless times here's the passages, look them up
Okay to sell daughter
"And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do" Ex. 217
Stone to death
"And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deuteronomy 21 something
so , yes I completly agree with except for your statement that i've just disproved. wink i'm agreed that you shouldn't take the bible literally. i'm sure if you'd have read the bible you'd have remembered those passages.[/quote88ede71734]
You're taking the Bible out of context. It doesn't say that it's okay to sell your daughter.
Search for your verse with Control F and read up.[=http//www.demonbuster.com/slaves.html]Search for your verse with Control F and read up. It isn't saying that it's okay to sell your daughter. It was just Hebrew rules and such. Those were rules for the Jewish people before Christ came. They aren't rules for us.
So basically what your doing is taking verses from the Old Testament and you are saying that the rules still apply to us when they don't.[/quote88ede71734]
dude what are you arguing about!?!?! did you not read my post??? you're arguing the same exact thing!!! "rules don't apply to us" , "we shouldn't take bible literally" no shit they aren't rules for us, and that's exactly why it takes away the Christians' base for stating that being gay is wrong. Look arguing the same point as I'm stating isn't going to go anywhere. I'm proving that 2+2=4 and you're arguing 2+2=4. just let this one drop for the sake of clarity
EatChex89
20-12-2005 15:13:26
[quote7b91f833fe="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quote7b91f833fe]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...
LucaBella
20-12-2005 15:13:54
[quote80358b7ff1="cartrenroy"][quote80358b7ff1="sparrowsingreek"][quote80358b7ff1="Wolfeman"][quote80358b7ff1="sparrowsingreek"][b80358b7ff1]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/b80358b7ff1][/quote80358b7ff1]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quote80358b7ff1]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be straight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quote80358b7ff1]
Whats your point?
I mean, you're lesbian and you are lesbian becuase YOU LIKE IT
If you ask ME?
Would I be gay if I could? I will say NO, why? becuase I'm straight and I like WOMAN
so you don't really have a point[/quote80358b7ff1]
God I wish someone could keep Cartrenroy away from a keyboard.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:14:22
[quote7be6875e05="EatChex89"][quote7be6875e05="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quote7be6875e05]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quote7be6875e05]
ugly ass ones too
[quote7dbf533708="EatChex89"][quote7dbf533708="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quote7dbf533708]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quote7dbf533708]
It's my choice. Apparently we can choose to do [b7dbf533708]everything[/b7dbf533708] we want.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:15:41
[quoteb826a58515="Veek"][quoteb826a58515="EatChex89"][quoteb826a58515="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quoteb826a58515]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quoteb826a58515]
It's my choice. Apparently we can choose to do [bb826a58515]everything[/bb826a58515] we want.[/quoteb826a58515]
You can unless some experience or outside force pushes you off course and you don't have the mental capacity to overcome that.
[quotec61256a38c="exclusiv"][quotec61256a38c="Veek"][quotec61256a38c="EatChex89"][quotec61256a38c="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quotec61256a38c]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quotec61256a38c]
It's my choice. Apparently we can choose to do [bc61256a38c]everything[/bc61256a38c] we want.[/quotec61256a38c]
You can unless some experience or outside force pushes you off course and you don't have the mental capacity to overcome that.[/quotec61256a38c]
Don't see that happening since it's allowed. Just like being homosexual.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:18:29
[quoted955582508="Veek"][quoted955582508="exclusiv"][quoted955582508="Veek"][quoted955582508="EatChex89"][quoted955582508="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quoted955582508]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quoted955582508]
It's my choice. Apparently we can choose to do [bd955582508]everything[/bd955582508] we want.[/quoted955582508]
You can unless some experience or outside force pushes you off course and you don't have the mental capacity to overcome that.[/quoted955582508]
Don't see that happening since it's allowed. Just like being homosexual.[/quoted955582508]
Ok I don't follow that. See what happening?
I'm saying a person undergoes an event or event in their upbringing that pushes them in a particular direction and that not everyone can overcome that.
Much like those that were raped/molested and never recover in the sense that they can't ever be able to trust certain people in the future.
Whether it is or isn't a choice, something went wrong somewhere. No parent WANTS to have a gay child. Think about that, and don't give me that "parents want whatever makes their child happy" self-soothing bullshit. Ask a parent if they would rather have a gay child or a straight child before its born.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 15:19:40
[quote3a4b6cbcf4="Veek"][quote3a4b6cbcf4="exclusiv"][quote3a4b6cbcf4="Veek"][quote3a4b6cbcf4="EatChex89"][quote3a4b6cbcf4="Veek"]I'm sexy.[/quote3a4b6cbcf4]
dude...
you freaking post pics of cheesy owls all over the place...[/quote3a4b6cbcf4]
It's my choice. Apparently we can choose to do [b3a4b6cbcf4]everything[/b3a4b6cbcf4] we want.[/quote3a4b6cbcf4]
You can unless some experience or outside force pushes you off course and you don't have the mental capacity to overcome that.[/quote3a4b6cbcf4]
Don't see that happening since it's allowed. Just like being homosexual.[/quote3a4b6cbcf4]
those owls are so fifth grade, man
[quote6bec24309e="exclusiv"]
Ok I don't follow that. See what happening?
I'm saying a person undergoes an event or event in their upbringing that pushes them in a particular direction and that not everyone can overcome that.[/quote6bec24309e]
It was meant to throw you off.
It's funny, you try to have a decent "conversation" however, everything was thrown around in a semi-argument. There is no explenation for things sometimes, they just happen. Gay people just happen to be born gay. You don't like it, deal with it on your own. No one owes you any explanation. What is it you really want? For gay people to "go away?" Are you confused with your own sexuality? Are you trying to ask for help? Are you trying to educate us? I don't understand your replies sometimes because it seems, no matter how many times you say you're just "wondering," that you've made up your mind about gay people. There is no asking questions if you're not trying to change the way you look at them or if you're actually wanting to ACCEPT them. There is no way to explain the way those twins were brought up because you weren't there their whole lives. I wasn't molested, I wasn't taught to like men, I didn't have this big "event" during my life that made me the way I am. And yes, I do find the female body to be extremely sexy, have you noticed my photography? They're ALL females! Yet, I prefer males. I prefer to love them and be loved by them. I prefer to have romatic feelings towards them.
With that said...
![]("6bec24309e)
http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/d6b11b562241aaa63f3ae31593d1ae54.gif[" alt=""/img6bec24309e]
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:31:42
[quote701f91850e="Veek"][quote701f91850e="exclusiv"]
Ok I don't follow that. See what happening?
I'm saying a person undergoes an event or event in their upbringing that pushes them in a particular direction and that not everyone can overcome that.[/quote701f91850e]
It was meant to throw you off.
It's funny, you try to have a decent "conversation" however, everything was thrown around in a semi-argument. There is no explenation for things sometimes, they just happen. Gay people just happen to be born gay. You don't like it, deal with it on your own. No one owes you any explanation. What is it you really want? For gay people to "go away?" Are you confused with your own sexuality? Are you trying to ask for help? Are you trying to educate us? I don't understand your replies sometimes because it seems, no matter how many times you say you're just "wondering," that you've made up your mind about gay people. There is no asking questions if you're not trying to change the way you look at them or if you're actually wanting to ACCEPT them. There is no way to explain the way those twins were brought up because you weren't there their whole live. I wasn't molested, I wasn't taught to like men, I didn't have this big "event" during my life that made me the way I am. And yes, I do find the female body to be extremely sexy, have you noticed my photography? They're ALL females! Yet, I prefer males. I prefer to love them and be loved by them. I prefer to have romatic feelings towards them.
With that said...
![]("701f91850e)
http//forum.freeipodguide.com/smilies_mod/upload/d6b11b562241aaa63f3ae31593d1ae54.gif[" alt=""/img701f91850e][/quote701f91850e]
I like to hear other people's input. In case you didn't notice, I admitted that because of this thread, I could now see how people can say that they can't choose to be gay.
I still believe it isn't genetic, although it could be another uncontrollable factor. Or it could be the result of one's upbringing/experiences. Regardless, I think something went wrong somewhere.
Why is it so bad to believe that? People that are born handicapped aren't bad people, but something went wrong before or during their birth.
Being gay is not ideal to parents, and they were the ones that created you. It's a deviation from the norm/natural. It's ok. Everyone is different.
tylerc
20-12-2005 15:34:23
There isn't a set normal for anyone's sexuality.
Just like when you start puberty, it's normal for YOU to start at age 12, but it was NORMAL for someone else to start puberty when they were 10. Whatever you are, that's normal for you.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:36:16
[quote317e462b35="tylerc"]There isn't a set normal for anyone's sexuality.
Just like when you start puberty, it's normal for YOU to start at age 12, but it was NORMAL for someone else to start puberty when they were 10. Whatever you are, that's normal for you.[/quote317e462b35]
right. everything is normal to the individual.
homosexuality is not natural to animals that reproduce sexually, however. it occurs, but it is not natural.
i think intrinsically it is wrong. from a utilitarian aspect, it can be right, however, if it is right for the individual and makes them a better person.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 15:40:57
[quotea4370e4ef0="exclusiv"]
How are you going to find a gay gene if identical twins have the same genes and there are many cases where one twin is gay and the other is not. They have the same genes. Please don't say there might be a gay gene. Not possible. Could be some other uncontrollable factor, but it's not a gene.
And if comparing murderers (in the sense that some can't choose) to gays is heinous, so is comparing gay research to cancer research.[/quotea4370e4ef0]
I don't know what your feelings on mental illness are (no, I am NOT comparing being gay to a mental illness! before anyone tries to jump on me, I am teh ghey, remember?). But mental illness is most certainly genetic.
With that being said If one twin has schizophrenia, the other may NOT also have the illness, but there is, of course, a chance that they will.
So the whole twin argument does not hold much water. Unless you will now claim that people choose to be schizophrenic or that maybe they hit their head and are now crazy (which is most definitely NOT the cause in a case like schizophrenia).
Why is comparing one form of research on the human body (cancer) to another (being gay) heinous?
Comparing loving someone and being loved by someone to killing another human being, is, however, horrible.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:47:28
[quotee2a9c99e78="sparrowsingreek"][quotee2a9c99e78="exclusiv"]
How are you going to find a gay gene if identical twins have the same genes and there are many cases where one twin is gay and the other is not. They have the same genes. Please don't say there might be a gay gene. Not possible. Could be some other uncontrollable factor, but it's not a gene.
And if comparing murderers (in the sense that some can't choose) to gays is heinous, so is comparing gay research to cancer research.[/quotee2a9c99e78]
I don't know what your feelings on mental illness are (no, I am NOT comparing being gay to a mental illness! before anyone tries to jump on me, I am teh ghey, remember?). But mental illness is most certainly genetic.
With that being said If one twin has schizophrenia, the other may NOT also have the illness, but there is, of course, a chance that they will.
So the whole twin argument does not hold much water. Unless you will now claim that people choose to be schizophrenic or that maybe they hit their head and are now crazy (which is most definitely NOT the cause in a case like schizophrenia).
Why is comparing one form of research on the human body (cancer) to another (being gay) heinous?
Comparing loving someone and being loved by someone to killing another human being, is, however, horrible.[/quotee2a9c99e78]
you agree that homosexuality is a healthy lifestyle. compare it to something that is healthy (not shizophrenia or mental illness) and you might able to come up with something of substance.
plus, from what I have read on schizophrenia "Current research proposes that schizophrenia is caused by a genetic vulnerability coupled with environmental and psychosocial stressors"
so maybe gays do have a "genetic vulnerability coupled with environmental and psychosocial stressors", is that what you wanted to prove?
maybe there is a genetic vulnerability, but there isn't a gene that specifically determines homosexuality, otherwise both identical twins would definitely be gay.
LucaBella
20-12-2005 15:53:08
No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.
And finding one person's opinon on "current research" to support whatever you're trying to make us believe is crappy.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 15:55:51
[quotead2276bd14="LucaBella"]No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.[/quotead2276bd14]
ok MAYBE READ THE REST OF THE DAMN THREAD lucabella instead of popping in and saying things that i have changed my mind about
i said i can see that it might not be a choice. fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT determines homosexuality, as twins have the same genes, yet both aren't always gay
LucaBella
20-12-2005 15:57:28
[quote9c9e04a9f6="exclusiv"][quote9c9e04a9f6="LucaBella"]No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.[/quote9c9e04a9f6]
ok MAYBE READ THE REST OF THE DAMN THREAD lucabella instead of popping in and saying things that i have changed my mind about
i said i can see that it might not be a choice. fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT determines homosexuality, as twins have the same genes, yet both aren't always gay[/quote9c9e04a9f6]
Kill your ego. I am not going to sit around and study you and make notes of when you change your really dumb ideas and prejudices to slightly less dumb ideas and prejudices. And altering your comment while I am responding to them is just silly.
ETA there you go again calling something a fact when its not. "fact remains" that you don't know anythintg about whether there's a gay gene or not.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 16:03:00
[quoteb04ac6fb6e="LucaBella"][quoteb04ac6fb6e="exclusiv"][quoteb04ac6fb6e="LucaBella"]No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.[/quoteb04ac6fb6e]
ok MAYBE READ THE REST OF THE DAMN THREAD lucabella instead of popping in and saying things that i have changed my mind about
i said i can see that it might not be a choice. fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT determines homosexuality, as twins have the same genes, yet both aren't always gay[/quoteb04ac6fb6e]
Kill your ego. I am not going to sit around and study you and make notes of when you change your really dumb ideas and prejudices to slightly less dumb ideas and prejudices. And altering your comment while I am responding to them is just silly.[/quoteb04ac6fb6e]
if you are going to participate in a thread that I created and make comments that I am not open minded, when I clearly stated (and restated several times) that I changed my mind about the choice vs birth stance, then you are ridiculous
you are the one that isn't open minded. I'm open to my ideas, and I understand different viewpoints now.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 16:04:35
OK, just so we have an update that is correct and up-to-the-minute
What are your current views, as it stands right now?
exclusiv
20-12-2005 16:04:36
[quotecd85b6a8bd="LucaBella"][quotecd85b6a8bd="exclusiv"][quotecd85b6a8bd="LucaBella"]No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.[/quotecd85b6a8bd]
ok MAYBE READ THE REST OF THE DAMN THREAD lucabella instead of popping in and saying things that i have changed my mind about
i said i can see that it might not be a choice. fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT determines homosexuality, as twins have the same genes, yet both aren't always gay[/quotecd85b6a8bd]
Kill your ego. I am not going to sit around and study you and make notes of when you change your really dumb ideas and prejudices to slightly less dumb ideas and prejudices. And altering your comment while I am responding to them is just silly.
ETA there you go again calling something a fact when its not. "fact remains" that you don't know anythintg about whether there's a gay gene or not.[/quotecd85b6a8bd]
did you not see the part that says "fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT" determines homosexuality
i capitalized it for you. it is a fact, otherwise both identical twins would DEFINITELY be gay
tylerc
20-12-2005 16:06:44
You should have been open before, rather than being close-minded.
exclusiv
20-12-2005 16:07:18
[quoteac7a9ecbd9="tylerc"]You should have been open before, rather than being close-minded.[/quoteac7a9ecbd9]
i was open before, hence i made the topic and engaged in discussion
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 16:09:14
Not quite open if you stated that you believe it is wrong to be gay.
tylerc
20-12-2005 16:10:10
Word.
Open would be like "I don't agree with it, but I will tolerate it."
exclusiv
20-12-2005 16:10:16
[quoteae85cf872d="sparrowsingreek"]Not quite open if you stated that you believe it is wrong to be gay.[/quoteae85cf872d]
i still believe it is intrinsically wrong to be gay.
JUNIOR6886
20-12-2005 16:10:50
[quoteb4cf103ac0="LucaBella"][quoteb4cf103ac0="cartrenroy"][quoteb4cf103ac0="sparrowsingreek"][quoteb4cf103ac0="Wolfeman"][quoteb4cf103ac0="sparrowsingreek"][bb4cf103ac0]If you ask a lot of gays they will say they'd be straight if they could...but they cannot.[/bb4cf103ac0][/quoteb4cf103ac0]
That is so wrong and you show your obvious prejudice. Most gays are happy with who they are. Its the religious freaks that make them think they have to change...[/quoteb4cf103ac0]
Um, hi. I am gay and have obviously spoken with gay people, lol. Many do say they would be straight if they could.
Did I say everyone? Nope, sure didn't.
Would I be straight if I could? Nope, sure wouldn't.
Was proving a point.[/quoteb4cf103ac0]
Whats your point?
I mean, you're lesbian and you are lesbian becuase YOU LIKE IT
If you ask ME?
Would I be gay if I could? I will say NO, why? becuase I'm straight and I like WOMAN
so you don't really have a point[/quoteb4cf103ac0]
God I wish someone could keep Cartrenroy away from a keyboard.[/quoteb4cf103ac0]
ROFL lol lol I literally laughed out loud after reading that. I might have to make some room under my Jan quote for that line. D
I don't see how comparing murder to gheyness is wrong. Its not like im saying that being gay is just as bad as killing someone. I just used an extreme example to make my point crystal clear. Just because a certain behaivor is "Natural" it doesnt excuse the behaivor. shrug
exclusiv
20-12-2005 16:12:46
[quote499ae9c5b1="tylerc"]Word.
Open would be like "I don't agree with it, but I will tolerate it."[/quote499ae9c5b1]
"If you completely disagree, I respect that"
i said that in my original post. i have tolerated other's opinions. If I didn't, I wouldn't keep posting or see certain things from their perspective.
i can disagree on some things just like anyone else can. nothing wrong with that.
EatChex89
20-12-2005 16:31:26
as it stands right now
i still think being gay is unnatural.
if everyone was gay (i know you're gonna say but everyone ISN'T gay!) there wouldn't be anyone.
shamash
20-12-2005 16:34:21
I come back to see 3 more pages of this shit, and decided to reply to a few of them, all in the same post. Enjoy.
---
[quotea628c55d78="JUNIOR6886"]Wow. This thread got big FAST shock
[quotea628c55d78="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quotea628c55d78]
Gays will never be fully accepted into society. The conservative right simply won't stand for it. There are some things that will never change....
An odd thing about my (and many others) position on homosexuality is that while 2 guys showing affection (hand holding kissing etc...) is revolting, I dont find 2 ATTRACTIVE girls showing affection disgusting at all. lol[/quotea628c55d78]
They used to say that blacks would never be fully accepted into society.. but now black people have A.A. and get a lot of things easier than white people.
And that isn't odd, most straight men find lesbians hot. It's very hypocritical, and ironic, but not odd.
---
[quotea628c55d78="exclusiv"][quotea628c55d78="JUNIOR6886"]Wow. This thread got big FAST shock
[quotea628c55d78="slease"]The question is, after gays are accepted fully into society... what is society going to reject next? Communists again? How about Canadians. Groupthink makes me sick to my stomach, if I had the ability I'd move to a more liberal country. Land of the free my ass.[/quotea628c55d78]
Gays will never be fully accepted into society. The conservative right simply won't stand for it. There are some things that will never change....
An odd thing about my (and many others) position on homosexuality is that while 2 guys showing affection (hand holding kissing etc...) is revolting, I dont find 2 ATTRACTIVE girls showing affection disgusting at all. lol[/quotea628c55d78]
2 attractive girls showing affection isn't disgusting either to me
me, being an alpha male with a solid, cut body, STILL cannot reach the level of physical beauty of particular women's bodies. the male body pales in comparison to the female body. anyone who thinks otherwise has mental issues.
man on man is not beautiful, it is disturbing. female on female is beautiful. whether the action is right or wrong, what is wrong with saying that? it's two completely different interactions between different specimens.[/quotea628c55d78]
That's really ridiculous to say. Oh well, though, it's opinion, I guess. Some people find man on man much more beautiful than female on female. Some people close their eyes to gender, and just see the beauty of [ba628c55d78]love[/ba628c55d78].
---
[quotea628c55d78="Veek"]So are gay men.[/quotea628c55d78]
shock playful
---
[quotea628c55d78="EatChex89"][quotea628c55d78="sparrowsingreek"]Lesbians are the sex.
Gay men are teh sexiness.
And the straights can be sexy too...sometimes. (j/k everyone can be sexy!).
Now let's go watch Brokeback Mountain, woo! Can't wait.[/quotea628c55d78]
the only reason i'd watch that is to see some boobies ;D
to quote king kong
Are there boobies?[/quotea628c55d78]
I know plenty of straight males who would rather see 2 men fall in love, then a giant gorilla fall in love with a woman.
;)
---
[quotea628c55d78="exclusiv"][quotea628c55d78="LucaBella"]No, and you know that's not her point.
You keep begging to have the gay twin thing explained, she did. She pointed out another difference in twins that IS NOT A CHOICE to defeat your idea that twins are 100% the same.
Stop acting like you don't understand.[/quotea628c55d78]
ok MAYBE READ THE REST OF THE DAMN THREAD lucabella instead of popping in and saying things that i have changed my mind about
i said i can see that it might not be a choice. fact remains there is no gene that ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT A DOUBT determines homosexuality, as twins have the same genes, yet both aren't always gay[/quotea628c55d78]
I've got gay genes.
Oh wait, those are gay jeans. Nevermind O
shamash
20-12-2005 16:35:54
[quotea1d8416a2f="EatChex89"]as it stands right now
i still think being gay is unnatural.
if everyone was gay (i know you're gonna say but everyone ISN'T gay!) there wouldn't be anyone.[/quotea1d8416a2f]
okay, so that's just like saying being black isn't natural.
because if everyone was white there would be no black people. right?
being asian isnt natural.
being ANYTHING besides a straight white christian is unnatural. and fuck anyone who disagrees.
ConfusedPigeon
20-12-2005 16:39:02
You retard Shamash. You aren't 1337 anymore.
[quoteb04b601ba4="ConfusedPigeon"]You retard Shamash. You aren't 1337 anymore.[/quoteb04b601ba4]
Don't make us make out in front of you. x shock
EatChex89
20-12-2005 16:43:59
[quote5df06c9948="shamash"][quote5df06c9948="EatChex89"]as it stands right now
i still think being gay is unnatural.
if everyone was gay (i know you're gonna say but everyone ISN'T gay!) there wouldn't be anyone.[/quote5df06c9948]
okay, so that's just like saying being black isn't natural.
because if everyone was white there would be no black people. right?
being asian isnt natural.
being ANYTHING besides a straight white christian is unnatural. and fuck anyone who disagrees.[/quote5df06c9948]
w/e i dont mind gay people.. i just think it's unnatural
and cussing isn't going to change my mind. -D
like i said. it's where i stand.
and black people lived in africa a long time..
shamash
20-12-2005 16:44:28
Yeah, I tried to stay 1337 on another forum I post on, and now I'm at like 3950 P
Tha fingers can't stop moving!
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 16:44:48
[quote007fc823ff="shamash"][quote007fc823ff="EatChex89"]as it stands right now
i still think being gay is unnatural.
if everyone was gay (i know you're gonna say but everyone ISN'T gay!) there wouldn't be anyone.[/quote007fc823ff]
okay, so that's just like saying being black isn't natural.
because if everyone was white there would be no black people. right?
being asian isnt natural.
being ANYTHING besides a straight white christian is unnatural. and fuck anyone who disagrees.[/quote007fc823ff]
I don't know if being gay isn't natural but it is WRONG (I don't really care - fuck all of them)
[b007fc823ff]off-topic[/b007fc823ff] since you are talking about white/black, etc - have you guys heard of that joke about WHITE people being the color ones and not the afreican-americans?
something like - black people is always black BUT whites are different, when they are cool they turn PURPLE, when they are hot, they turn red, etc
have you heard about that joke? if so, do you know the link?
shamash
20-12-2005 16:46:14
It doesn't look like a joke to me P Doesn't seem funny, anyways..
And why would God make gay people if he didn't want them?
[quote8fb2ddec0c="shamash"]It doesn't look like a joke to me P Doesn't seem funny, anyways..
And why would God make gay people if he didn't want them?[/quote8fb2ddec0c]
Uh oh. You've just said something that will fire up all these hardcore \m/ Christians and Catholics. dance2
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 16:48:41
[quote60895bb86f="shamash"]It doesn't look like a joke to me P Doesn't seem funny, anyways..
And why would God make gay people if he didn't want them?[/quote60895bb86f]
is not funny becuase that is not the joke
why God created gay people if he didn't like them? well, God created the ones that are KILLERS too, but God didn't make them kill people, God didn't make them gay, people is gay becuase they want to
Just like asking, why GOD created HIV, and thigs like that
Iloveipods2
20-12-2005 16:49:59
shamash you're are officially a badass. +karma
shamash
20-12-2005 16:50:52
Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 16:56:48
[quote78489aece8="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote78489aece8]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?
[quoteb75706221a="cartrenroy"][quoteb75706221a="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quoteb75706221a]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quoteb75706221a]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.
shamash
20-12-2005 16:59:10
[quote56945c4630="Iloveipods2"]shamash you're are officially a badass. +karma[/quote56945c4630]
Thanks )
[quote56945c4630="cartrenroy"][quote56945c4630="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote56945c4630]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote56945c4630]
The sin isn't in being gay, it's of sodomy.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 16:59:13
[quote7541ce41f4="Veek"][quote7541ce41f4="cartrenroy"][quote7541ce41f4="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote7541ce41f4]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote7541ce41f4]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quote7541ce41f4]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.
I haven't read the whole thread (and I will not), I don't know if you ([b7541ce41f4]shamash[/b7541ce41f4]) are gay, and if you are, then thats why you are saying all this, but you don't really have a point.
shamash
20-12-2005 16:59:33
[quote379a7217aa="cartrenroy"][quote379a7217aa="Veek"][quote379a7217aa="cartrenroy"][quote379a7217aa="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote379a7217aa]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote379a7217aa]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quote379a7217aa]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.[/quote379a7217aa]
Thats your opinion, and a very close minded one at that.
[quote780eb92fbc="cartrenroy"][quote780eb92fbc="Veek"][quote780eb92fbc="cartrenroy"][quote780eb92fbc="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote780eb92fbc]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote780eb92fbc]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quote780eb92fbc]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.[/quote780eb92fbc]
Then I suggest you don't waste your precious heterosexual posts on this thread. wink
shamash
20-12-2005 17:02:54
[quotefa82ff330f="cartrenroy"][quotefa82ff330f="Veek"][quotefa82ff330f="cartrenroy"][quotefa82ff330f="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quotefa82ff330f]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quotefa82ff330f]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quotefa82ff330f]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.
I haven't read the whole thread (and I will not), I don't know if you ([bfa82ff330f]shamash[/bfa82ff330f]) are gay, and if you are, then thats why you are saying all this, but you don't really have a point.[/quotefa82ff330f]
Neither do you.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 17:03:30
[quote8bf93dd47e="shamash"][quote8bf93dd47e="cartrenroy"][quote8bf93dd47e="Veek"][quote8bf93dd47e="cartrenroy"][quote8bf93dd47e="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote8bf93dd47e]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote8bf93dd47e]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quote8bf93dd47e]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.[/quote8bf93dd47e]
Thats your opinion, and a very close minded one at that.[/quote8bf93dd47e]
So if someone is not GAY then that person is CLOSE MINDED? wtf
[quote8bf93dd47e]Then I suggest you don't waste your precious heterosexual posts on this thread. [/quote8bf93dd47e]
![]("8bf93dd47e)
http//www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/o/okay.h12.jpg[" alt=""/img8bf93dd47e]
shamash
20-12-2005 17:04:20
[quote5d61e29628="cartrenroy"][quote5d61e29628="shamash"][quote5d61e29628="cartrenroy"][quote5d61e29628="Veek"][quote5d61e29628="cartrenroy"][quote5d61e29628="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quote5d61e29628]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quote5d61e29628]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quote5d61e29628]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.[/quote5d61e29628]
Thats your opinion, and a very close minded one at that.[/quote5d61e29628]
So if someone is not GAY then that person is CLOSE MINDED? wtf
[quote5d61e29628]Then I suggest you don't waste your precious heterosexual posts on this thread. [/quote5d61e29628]
![]("5d61e29628)
http//www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/o/okay.h12.jpg[" alt=""/img5d61e29628][/quote5d61e29628]
You're not close minded for not being gay.. you're close minded for thinking that being gay is wrong.
Love me for who I am, not for who I love! O lol
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 17:05:54
[quotef421104319="shamash"][quotef421104319="cartrenroy"][quotef421104319="shamash"][quotef421104319="cartrenroy"][quotef421104319="Veek"][quotef421104319="cartrenroy"][quotef421104319="shamash"]Okay, comparing gay people to killers again. I'll go with it, but I'll throw it in your face.
God created killers, but he didn't make them kill.
God created gay people, and he didn't force them to do sodomy.
Do you care if straight people have anal or oral sex? That's the sin, not the "being gay". If you don't mind straight people having anal or oral sex, then it is no more or less of a sin than gay people having anal or oral sex.
O[/quotef421104319]
Who said that anal/oral sex was bad, sin, or w/e you want to call it?
why compare them?[/quotef421104319]
There are a couple of pages where that whole anal sex and crap was a sin a while back.[/quotef421104319]
ha, okay, thanks for that
Well, I am not going to read all that shit because I don't give a Fli(li&^ about gay people, it's wrong and thats it.[/quotef421104319]
Thats your opinion, and a very close minded one at that.[/quotef421104319]
So if someone is not GAY then that person is CLOSE MINDED? wtf
[quotef421104319]Then I suggest you don't waste your precious heterosexual posts on this thread. [/quotef421104319]
![]("f421104319)
http//www.lifeprint.com/asl101/signjpegs/o/okay.h12.jpg[" alt=""/imgf421104319][/quotef421104319]
You're not close minded for not being gay.. you're close minded for thinking that being gay is wrong.[/quotef421104319]
Is the same fucking thing, you are saying that my culture/religion, etc they are all CLOSE MINDED just becuase we don't agree with you
Fuck that shit
So you are OPEN MINDED cuz you think that GAY people is right (not bat being gay) - dam you should run for President of the USA
shamash
20-12-2005 17:07:22
You're saying that I'm "wrong" and "unnatural" because I'm not the same as you!
Fuck that shit
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 17:11:26
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."-Mark Twain.
shamash
20-12-2005 17:12:31
HAHAHA. Beautiful, sparrowsingreek ^_^
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 17:12:35
Soon there will be people trying to marry ANIMALS - and they will go outside on the streets asking for their rights (and all the things that Gay people did, etc)
So, what do you think about that (I want to see the point of a Open Minded), is this going to be natural?
shamash
20-12-2005 17:13:10
[quote0b9c6aa043="cartrenroy"][quote0b9c6aa043="shamash"]You're saying that I'm "wrong" and "unnatural" because I'm not the same as you!
Fuck that shit[/quote0b9c6aa043]
Soon there will be people trying to marry with ANIMALS - and they will go outside on the streets asking for their rights (and all the things that Gay people did and it's doing)
So, what do you think about that (I want to see the point of a Open Minded), is this going to be natural?[/quote0b9c6aa043]
Oh my, if we start letting black and white people marry, what will they want next?
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 17:14:35
I really don't get your question, what do you mean?
People have already married animals. Where have you been during this century?
Admin
20-12-2005 17:15:49
[quote35286ffa84="cartrenroy"]Soon there will be people trying to marry ANIMALS - and they will go outside on the streets asking for their rights (and all the things that Gay people did, etc)
So, what do you think about that (I want to see the point of a Open Minded), is this going to be natural?[/quote35286ffa84]
Your argument is absurd. People have free will and can consent; animals do not and cannot.
To everyone can you please stop quoting more than is absolutely necessary? It makes reading the thread a huge pain in the ass.
shamash
20-12-2005 17:17:40
Sorry about that admin. I try to delete out parts of quotes but it gets so messy with this thread p
and Cartrenroy, talkin about the 50s ;)
JUNIOR6886
20-12-2005 17:19:41
[quote15036cbba7="shamash"]It doesn't look like a joke to me P Doesn't seem funny, anyways..
And why would God make gay people if he didn't want them?[/quote15036cbba7]
Assuming God created "Gay people" would be assuming Gayness is natrual, which cannot be categorically proven. Race however, can EASILY be categorically proven as natural. They aren't related. The thought of gays gaining acceptance from the VAST MAJORITY of the country (like %80) is absolutely inconcievable.
Im glad people here arent afriad to go against the "PC" path and say they feel gayness is wrong. I have a few friends who try to be like "theres nothing wrong with being gay thats just the way they are" But are the first to stat screaming and sprinting in the opposite direction when they see two guys kissing. roll
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 17:21:22
[quote6a89f59a16="Veek"]People have already married animals. Where have you been during this century?[/quote6a89f59a16] [b6a89f59a16]Admin [/b6a89f59a16]- Last quote
Really, I didn't know that
Well, I beleive that being gay/lesbian is wrong, that is what I beleive. You have to the right (and you are free) of doing with your life w/e you want (I am not the kind of people that it says - I am not the gay one, so they can be w/e they want) and thats why I always say - being gay is WRONG
But this cannot be changed
and about [b6a89f59a16]JUNIOR6886's[/b6a89f59a16] post, that is true (even if you're gay, Atheist or any other relifion, that is true)
shamash
20-12-2005 17:21:33
[quote5495cf0845="JUNIOR6886"][quote5495cf0845="shamash"]It doesn't look like a joke to me P Doesn't seem funny, anyways..
And why would God make gay people if he didn't want them?[/quote5495cf0845]
Assuming God created "Gay people" would be assuming Gayness is natrual, which cannot be categorically proven. Race however, can EASILY be categorically proven as natural. They aren't related. Also, like i said before, the christian right will not allow for widespread aceptance of gays......[/quote5495cf0845]
good thing im jewish ^_^
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 17:58:37
liwonders what would happen if cartrenroy's kid turns out to be gayli
[quote64387e7bea="sparrowsingreek"]liwonders what would happen if cartrenroy's kid turns out to be gayli[/quote64387e7bea]
stun
Aurelius
20-12-2005 18:06:21
[quote4f90e83d68="sparrowsingreek"]liwonders what would happen if cartrenroy's kid turns out to be gayli[/quote4f90e83d68]
o o o o D D D D D D lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol
he'd have to bend him back to normality
shamash
20-12-2005 18:13:25
Or stone him to death.
;)
theysayjump
20-12-2005 18:18:17
[quote0453701fa5="JUNIOR6886"]Assuming God created "Gay people" would be assuming Gayness is natrual, which cannot be categorically proven. Race however, can EASILY be categorically proven as natural. They aren't related. The thought of gays gaining acceptance from the VAST MAJORITY of the country (like %80) is absolutely inconcievable.[/quote0453701fa5]
Assuming that God exists, then he created everyone equally. That means that whether you are gay, straight or sideways, then you are equal as God created everyone equally. Therefore it's natural, and everything in the world, all the people and places and animals are all natural and nothing is unnatural.
Gay people gaining acceptance may be inconceivable to you, but not to everyone else. 50 years ago it would have been inconceivable to a vast majority of this country to allow segregation to become illegal. Does that mean it was a bad decision?
shamash
20-12-2005 18:25:42
^_^ It is to Junior ;)
good2speed
20-12-2005 19:03:07
I knew donating to this site meant you were gay.
And yes gayness may be gaining acceptance but its more often regarded in disgust.
Its connation is viewed to illustrate a strong disliking
that kid is gay-
is the kid really gay. who knows. but language seems to suggest a disliking of an individual.
so following this definition I will say being gay is nothing more than being real gay.
For those who say what if your son turns out to be gay?
Easy give him up for adoption.
Probably the worst thing for a father to find out. Id rather hear my son was killed in a car crash or is mentally retarded or crippled than have him tell me hes gay.
Why?
Because if hes disabled by the hands of god then I can live with it. If he truns to be gay then I'll feel I've failed as a parent and didnt raise him right.
shamash
20-12-2005 19:04:48
wow good2speed. that's REALLY fucking sad.
Okay the comment above Shamash's really made me LOL.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 19:32:48
[quoteb9dcb6411d="good2speed"]
For those who say what if your son turns out to be gay?
Easy give him up for adoption.
Probably the worst thing for a father to find out. Id rather hear my son was killed in a car crash or is mentally retarded or crippled than have him tell me hes gay.
Why?
Because if hes disabled by the hands of god then I can live with it. If he truns to be gay then I'll feel I've failed as a parent and didnt raise him right.[/quoteb9dcb6411d]
Wow. How do you sleep at night?
shamash
20-12-2005 19:36:31
I'm pretty sure nobody likes good2speed anyways.
good2speed
20-12-2005 19:44:18
[quotee69251601c="sparrowsingreek"]
Wow. How do you sleep at night?[/quotee69251601c]
On a bed not occupied by a member of the same sex. Usually I lay down on a bed, close my eyes and fall asleep. Depending on my level of fatigue the difficulty in falling asleep may vary. Outside influences also seem to affect my sleeping patterns at times. But for the most part I sleep fine.
SonTenshinhan
20-12-2005 19:54:29
Good2speed, I never knew that parents felt like this.. I remember them distictly asking me if I was straight early on in high school. I'm straight - I just have a shitty personality, so I didn't bother snaging anything, but my parents think I'm gay. I just thought it was funny.. Maybe my father really is disappointed in me. Shit..
shamash
20-12-2005 19:55:51
SonTenshinhan, don't worry. Good2speed is a horrible parent, and not all feel that way.
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:02:51
[quotef259a890d5="SonTenshinhan"]Good2speed, I never knew that parents felt like this.. I remember them distictly asking me if I was straight early on in high school. I'm straight - I just have a shitty personality, so I didn't bother snaging anything, but my parents think I'm gay. I just thought it was funny.. Maybe my father really is disappointed in me. Shit..[/quotef259a890d5]
I wouldnt crucify my child if I thought he was gay. Id need more solid proof. Like If i found out my son was on this forum openly expressing his gayness and I came to find out about it.....
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 20:03:16
Boy am I glad I have the mother I do... She was the first person I thought to tell. I cried and she said "what are you crying for? I love you no matter what."
Now to try and get me to go to her church she calls me up and says "there are lesbians there! lesbians! yay, come to church." haha.
sparrowsingreek
20-12-2005 20:04:58
[quote215a1a7add="good2speed"]
I wouldnt crucify my child if I thought he was gay. Id need more solid proof. Like If i found out my son was on this forum openly expressing his gayness and I came to find out about it.....[/quote215a1a7add]
Oh, of course...I see, only then would you give up your own flesh and blood whom you are supposed to love until the day you die because he or she loves someone you don't approve of...
some people should not breed.
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:12:16
I'm more inclined to believe that good2seed is being facetious, but if he is not, I'm just glad I'm not his gay son.
But hey, if you can't beat them into believing that being gay is wrong, just give them away to someone else who may be more open-minded and bring them up with the love and respect they deserve. shrug
I know what I would rather have if I was good2speeds little gay son.
If he son ever turns out to be gay and wants to give him up for adoption, I'll take him.
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:13:42
[quoteaf1a041a54="sparrowsingreek"][quoteaf1a041a54="good2speed"]
I wouldnt crucify my child if I thought he was gay. Id need more solid proof. Like If i found out my son was on this forum openly expressing his gayness and I came to find out about it.....[/quoteaf1a041a54]
Oh, of course...I see, only then would you give up your own flesh and blood whom you are supposed to love until the day you die because he or she loves someone you don't approve of...
some people should not breed.[/quoteaf1a041a54]
Ya the ones who are incapable of raising their child to live a straight childhood. Every parent should get Child-Gay evaluations and it would reflect on % they had to pay on tax.
Ive thought about it.
If my child is gay and I feel I havent raised the child succesfully then I will try everyhting under the sun to make sure my child becomes more stabalized. After a period if Im still unable to releieve the child from the 'Dark Side' then I will be only left with an option of giving the child for adoption as its clearly obvious Im unfit to raise a straight child.
On the other hand if I feel Ive raised the chile to the best of my abilities and he still refuses to change his ways then I can only try harded to make him change his course. At the end if he is still not changed I can only assume Ive tried everything possible and the child is incurable and is in extreme rebellion. Granted getting rid of the child may be difficult as a parent. A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.
You probably won't say the same thing when you actually have a child and love him more than anything.
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:19:36
[quote005adc49f8="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quote005adc49f8]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:20:20
[quote68ae526e44="theysayjump"][quote68ae526e44="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quote68ae526e44]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?[/quote68ae526e44]
there is, but the majority are STRAIGHT
about [b68ae526e44]good2speed[/b68ae526e44] - I agree with him, if my son/daughter comes to me and says - I am gay/lesbian - then I will say to myself "I am not a good parent" - I will not give him/her to adoption BUT I am pretty sure that I will do something about it - but thank [b68ae526e44]GOD[/b68ae526e44][/size68ae526e44] I will never be on that situation
[quote5f737c3bcf="cartrenroy"][quote5f737c3bcf="theysayjump"][quote5f737c3bcf="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quote5f737c3bcf]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?[/quote5f737c3bcf]
there is, but the majority are STRAIGHT[/quote5f737c3bcf]
Do you know that for a fact? The majority could be gay and you wouldn't know about it.
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:24:00
[quote14d2829c88="Veek"]You probably won't say the same thing when you actually have a child and love him more than anything.[/quote14d2829c88]
No I'll probably be even more vocal of my dislike for gays once he/she is born. The child will grow up petrofied of even thinking about homosexuality. In fact now that we are on it. I will slip in Playboys and other female nudity to the child from 8-15. With an open account to Maxim. That way I can read through Maxim as well and say its for the sake of the child without having the wife react negatively. In fact you have all convinced me that once I do have a child I have three monumental responsibilities.
1) Make sure the kids dont turn out gay.
2) Make sure the children are taken care of finanacially.
3) Keep my daughter off the pole.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:24:50
[quoted6c239278c="Veek"][quoted6c239278c="cartrenroy"][quoted6c239278c="theysayjump"][quoted6c239278c="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quoted6c239278c]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?[/quoted6c239278c]
there is, but the majority are STRAIGHT[/quoted6c239278c]
Do you know that for a fact? The majority could be gay and you wouldn't know about it.[/quoted6c239278c]
Think about it, most gay guys are pussies (some are normal) but most of them are fucking pussies, so yeah, I know that by fact
agroman
20-12-2005 20:25:15
good2speed is (or, will be) a terrible father. that's all he's proving with his mindless posts.
shrug
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:25:42
[quote47ae5d464b="cartrenroy"][quote47ae5d464b="theysayjump"][quote47ae5d464b="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quote47ae5d464b]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?[/quote47ae5d464b]
there is, but the majority are STRAIGHT[/quote47ae5d464b]
Oh noes, teh gayz haz inulftr8ted teh army.
So if gay people can join the army and fight and die for their country, pay taxes, buy houses, cars and window frames, then why is it not Ok if they wan't to do something in private in their own house, or get married, or hold fucking hands in public?
shamash
20-12-2005 20:26:32
[quote63d776232e="cartrenroy"][quote63d776232e="Veek"][quote63d776232e="cartrenroy"][quote63d776232e="theysayjump"][quote63d776232e="good2speed"]A more viable alternative would be to send the child away to military school and after the age of 18 to end all contact with the child until hes past the rebellion stage.[/quote63d776232e]
Because there are no gay people in the military right?[/quote63d776232e]
there is, but the majority are STRAIGHT[/quote63d776232e]
Do you know that for a fact? The majority could be gay and you wouldn't know about it.[/quote63d776232e]
Think about it, most gay guys are pussies (some are normal) but most of them are fucking pussies, so yeah, I know that by fact[/quote63d776232e]
Not true. I could kick your ass.
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:26:34
[quotefd2198c739="cartrenroy"]
Think about it, most gay guys are pussies (some are normal) but most of them are fucking pussies, so yeah, I know that by fact[/quotefd2198c739]
Wow Cart I was holding back. Your crazy
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:26:49
[quote88588f0cc4="good2speed"][quote88588f0cc4="Veek"]You probably won't say the same thing when you actually have a child and love him more than anything.[/quote88588f0cc4]
No I'll probably be even more vocal of my dislike for gays once he/she is born. The child will grow up petrofied of even thinking about homosexuality. In fact now that we are on it. I will slip in Playboys and other female nudity to the child from 8-15. With an open account to Maxim. That way I can read through Maxim as well and say its for the sake of the child without having the wife react negatively. In fact you have all convinced me that once I do have a child I have three monumental responsibilities.
1) Make sure the kids dont turn out gay.
2) Make sure the children are taken care of finanacially.
3) Keep my daughter off the pole.[/quote88588f0cc4]
LOL - what if he gets tired of that (cuz some do, beleive or not)
This is what I always try to do - Keep them away from any Gay/Lesbian things, this way they will not be curious and when they grow up they will be 100% STRAIGHT
[quote8bf0025881="cartrenroy"]
Think about it, most gay guys are pussies (some are normal) but most of them are fucking pussies, so yeah, I know that by fact[/quote8bf0025881]
I haven't rolled my eyes this hard all week.
All of the gay men I know are not "pussies." They don't even look gay. Get with the times, I'll gladly pay for your trip from 1990 to the present.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:27:36
[quoteb65c084dd6]
Not true. I could kick your ass.[/quoteb65c084dd6]
Go play barbies
just playing, don't get mad
you could kick my ass? well, we will never find that out
One of my friends got into a fight with a GAY guy (my friend lost), they are gay but still MAN, they have the same strenght, so it's off-topic
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:30:01
[quote78a867e5f9="cartrenroy"]LOL - what if he gets tired of that (cuz some do, beleive or not)
[b78a867e5f9]This is what I always try to do[/b78a867e5f9] - Keep them away from any Gay/Lesbian things, this way they will not be curious and when they grow up they will be 100% STRAIGHT[/quote78a867e5f9]
Hold on a minute here John Boy. You always try to do those things to/with your kid(s)? How old are you exactly and how old are your kids? I thought you were still in high school. shrug
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:30:55
[quote1936691732="theysayjump"][quote1936691732="cartrenroy"]LOL - what if he gets tired of that (cuz some do, beleive or not)
[b1936691732]This is what I always try to do[/b1936691732] - Keep them away from any Gay/Lesbian things, this way they will not be curious and when they grow up they will be 100% STRAIGHT[/quote1936691732]
Hold on a minute here John Boy. You always try to do those things to/with your kid(s)? How old are you exactly and how old are your kids? I thought you were still in high school. shrug[/quote1936691732]
John Boy, lol
Thats private stuff
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:37:56
If gayness is so openly accepted today then why does a straight man become furiously angry if soemone else may kid around and call them gay?
Do gay guys get mad if someone calls them straight. Are they willing to fight mankind to prove their gayness?
[quotef432f1108e="good2speed"]If gayness is so openly accepted today then why does a straight man become furiously angry if soemone else may kid around and call them gay?
Do gay guys get mad if someone calls them straight. Are they willing to fight mankind to prove their gayness?[/quotef432f1108e]
I feel so sorry for you. (
Only straight men who are seriously insecure about their sexuality would get offended when someone calls them gay. I've seen it happen, and it's always been brushed off and ignored simply because it's not true. It depends how OPEN MINDED and ACCEPTING and MATURE a person is.
I feel dumb by even replying to something like that. Jesus.
shamash
20-12-2005 20:40:11
We're not as insecure as you guys ;)
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:45:32
What initially started out as good healthy discussion, has very rapidly turned into a shit-fest with no real input and some offensive posts. If peple can't be mature about it without making offensive remarks (cartrenroy, good2speed) then this thread might as well be locked.
There's nothing wrong if that's the way you guys feel, but the way that you are saying it and putting it forward is coming off (to me at least) as very hateful. If it's going to continue that way then this will get locked.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:45:55
[quoteb644b7995a="shamash"]We're not as insecure as you guys ;)[/quoteb644b7995a]
you must be proud lol
When someone says "Your gay" or something like that - to me it means, your dumb, that is what it means to everybody (like when a friend does something weird, you go like "man your gay"
To me it means, idiot, stupid, or something like that (goofing around), is not an offense
doylnea
20-12-2005 20:49:18
[quote8788752e91="cartrenroy"][quote8788752e91="shamash"]We're not as insecure as you guys ;)[/quote8788752e91]
you must be proud lol
When someone says "Your gay" or something like that - to me it means, your dumb, that is what it means to everybody (like when a friend does something weird, you go like "man your gay"
To me it means, idiot, stupid, or something like that (goofing around), is not an offense[/quote8788752e91]
You and good2speed have cemented your place in history as the most ignorant, narrow-minded, bigotted members of FiPG (and this gem of post just typifies it). I may actually buy some custom titles for the both of you to immortalize the ignorance.
cartrenroy
20-12-2005 20:50:13
[quoted9601ea1b8]
You and good2speed have cemented your place in history as the most ignorant, narrow-minded, bigotted members of FiPG (and this gem of post just typifies it). I may actually buy some custom titles for the both of you to immortalize the ignorance.[/quoted9601ea1b8]
okay
shit, so I have to be like you to not be an ignorant, okay, so I have to change my religion, culture, etc, okay
good2speed
20-12-2005 20:50:34
Its not an insecurity its just a severe dislike with something being associated to you. Like calling an American a communist, an Indian a Pakistani, a Pope unreligious. Its not that were so insecure its that whoever reacts this way has such a deep disliking for the other kind that they cant even fathom being connected within the same sentence. You can call it what you want but the fact is an Indian would act just as severely if someone called him a Pakistani. Now does that mean hes insecure. ID say not. Id say he has such a strong dislkike for the Pakistanis that he is repulsed by being subjugated and associated with such a group and thus will express his viewpoint as such.
If someone calls you straight you arent repulsed. You just disagree with it. Thats all.
theysayjump
20-12-2005 20:51:30
I'm temporarily locking this, let's get it back to the non-ignorant, non-biggoted discussion please.
[quote9e73be120c="theysayjump"]What initially started out as good healthy discussion, has very rapidly turned into a shit-fest with no real input and some offensive posts. If peple can't be mature about it without making offensive remarks (cartrenroy, good2speed) then this thread might as well be locked.
There's nothing wrong if that's the way you guys feel, but the way that you are saying it and putting it forward is coming off (to me at least) as very hateful. If it's going to continue that way then this will get locked.[/quote9e73be120c]