Stop the war

http//www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html

Nuff said.

It's amazing how many died not even because of the combat.
We salute you.

rip.

Yeah RIP....... I can't believe that guy said those things about our soldiers. Someone should throw that wimp into SEALs during hell week and see how he does with that. He'd probably die.

I am 100% against the war and stuff like this just sickens me. Completely unnecessary death. I feel so bad for these soldiers and their families.

Just think about all the people we killed when we were there what is it 1,000 people killed (iraq) for every person killed (usa)

i doubt we have killed 250,000 iraqis

[quote5ea996ffdd="bruman"]i doubt we have killed 250,000 iraqis[/quote5ea996ffdd]

I would believe it... -(

It's true that there have been a lot of lives lost, but someone in the Marine Corps told me, "For every person who shoots at us, there are one-thousand who thank us." I think I saw someone on TV say that exact same thing. Keep in mind that every single person over in Iraq knows to some degree what they are getting into.

People who support the war are in three breeds

1) WMD are there we got to find them (dying breed, but still there)
2) Liberate the Iraqi people (most common now)
3) Neoconservatism (the people who know what they are talking about)

1) is just retarded
2) Is almost as retarded as 1. Because if you havent noticed the Iraqi people have this thing against each other, you know religous shit going back for a long time. And we like to call these two groups the Sunni and the Shi'ite. One group is for democracy, the other is against. American democracy is what im stating here. The other blows the shit up that the other makes. And it was oppressed during Saddams reign. He was a bad guy no doubt, but he did a DAMN GOOD JOB of enforcing this. You cant argue with im going to shoot you're family in the head while you watch if you attack each other tactics.
3) Neoconservatism, why the smart people vote Bush. Bush is a neoconservative, a breed of people I like to relate to the middle age Catholic church. Why? Because they want to, like the Catholic church, change everyone to democracy, and some believe Christanity too. Im not going to talk about the underlying holy war that some believe is there, because I dont really care to. But I will talk about there motives.

They believe that if you convert the world to democracy that there will be peace, and to support this they say there has been no war between Democracies since the War of 1812 (the invasion of America by Britian if you forgot). Its a pretty retarded philosophy when you look and see that China is our #1 trading partner, and that they are communist. They also supposedly treat there citizens like shit, and kill there girl babies if you saw The Dying Rooms or whatever special D.


One soldier on a For-War protest said are you willing to look into the eyes of a oppressed child in Iraq and deny him this Iraq war, and the answer is Yes. I believe that if the US would have handled this through the UN instead of just jumping to war we could have handled this peacefully. The WMD where never there, and there was little evidence when they where there. Funny how the people that would have been affected by these WMDs where PROTESTING THE WAR FROM THE START. The WMDs would never have hit America, but they could have hit Germany. And Germany has always been against it.

I cant see why anyone voted Bush over Kerry, seriously. Its not a Republican Democrat thing its a look at the facts thing. I would not vote Hillary Clinton if she ran for office, and she is a Democrat.

People voted for Bush because of his moral standards.....

Until the late 1960's, the only difference between the two parties was how they would spend America's money.

As far as the war goes, Bush was acting on the information he had at the time.

Exacltly, You cant go into someones home and put a gun to their head and say "live my way or im going to kill you". Thats what we are doing to the Iraqi people, I dont want anyone telling me how to live, why should we have the right to do it to them.

because they're "Arabs" roll

[quote59c93651a4="JOSHBOX"]Exacltly, You cant go into someones home and put a gun to their head and say "live my way or im going to kill you". Thats what we are doing to the Iraqi people, I dont want anyone telling me how to live, why should we have the right to do it to them.[/quote59c93651a4]

America and its allies are not in Iraq telling people how to live, they are there to give the people a choice on how to live their life.

[quote7e5a7ae9bd="thehacker010"][quote7e5a7ae9bd="JOSHBOX"]Exacltly, You cant go into someones home and put a gun to their head and say "live my way or im going to kill you". Thats what we are doing to the Iraqi people, I dont want anyone telling me how to live, why should we have the right to do it to them.[/quote7e5a7ae9bd]

America and its allies are not in Iraq telling people how to live, they are there to give the people a choice on how to live their life.[/quote7e5a7ae9bd]

How can you say that? Whos to say they WANT democracy in their county. Just because it works for our culture dosent mean it will for theirs.

[quotec600989bbf="thehacker010"][quotec600989bbf="JOSHBOX"]Exacltly, You cant go into someones home and put a gun to their head and say "live my way or im going to kill you". Thats what we are doing to the Iraqi people, I dont want anyone telling me how to live, why should we have the right to do it to them.[/quotec600989bbf]

America and its allies are not in Iraq telling people how to live, they are there to give the people a choice on how to live their life.[/quotec600989bbf]

And what right do they have to do that?

[quoteae8b1e2094="JOSHBOX"]Exacltly, You cant go into someones home and put a gun to their head and say "live my way or im going to kill you". Thats what we are doing to the Iraqi people, I dont want anyone telling me how to live, why should we have the right to do it to them.[/quoteae8b1e2094]

Thats kind of ironic, because that is what Saddam was doing. And it brought peace to there society. Maybe not Peace Peace, but there wasnt car bombs everyday. Rulling with a Iron Fist in Iraq is what Saddam did, and it stiffled the resentment between the two groups.

[quote1cdeef4a03="thehacker010"]People voted for Bush because of his moral standards.....

Until the late 1960's, the only difference between the two parties was how they would spend America's money.

As far as the war goes, Bush was acting on the information he had at the time.[/quote1cdeef4a03]

OK, this is what I dislike about people who support Bush. Now, im not saying "I HATE BUSH", cause i dont hate em, i just dislike his policies. and i dont hate u hacker, either. People voted for what they wanted to see in a president, not what was present. As a Catholic I am constantly surrounded by idiots who think that Bush is this all-powerful man that knows whats best. However, his "Christianity" is somewhat of an illusion by his own standards(I cannot judge him, but he sets his own criteria). 1. Terry Schiavo thing-Bush wanted to saved Schiavo, which I commend in my views of life. HOwever, a bill that he signed in Texas killed a 4 year old mexican american kid who couldn't afford to keep the feeding tube in place, and thats ok to him. 2. He sends troops to war in Iraq, first for the ghost-like WMDs that the UN didnt have time to search for before Bush went Rambo, then for the "humanitarian" which is the dumbest thing I ever heard of. The civillian death toll in Iraq is 150k. Orphanages and hospitals have been bombed, not by the individual soldiers, but by our friend Big Brother. The whole Kurd thing is stupid too, cause we gave Saddam VX(the nerve agent he used to gas the Kurdish people) in the Iraq/Iran war in the 70s or 80s. 3. Bush is the only President to allocate funds for stem-cell research, which is currently facilitated by aborted children. He basically says,"Since abortion is legal we might as well use it."

Thats just my two cents...

I totally agree with his Stem Cell research, I think it is one of the best things he has done. I am not really for or against, I cant make up my mind. I lean a little more towards the for, espically for rape vitcims and incest etc... But his Stem Cell research basically says that since it is legal we are going to support research on it, basically like you said ""Since abortion is legal we might as well use it."" D. There is no reason to let something go to waste. It is the PERFECT median between the two groups. REMEBER THAT THERE ARE TWO GROUPS ON THE SUBJECT. TWO, not ONE. And both are big. Its like democracy at work, this is what is suppose to happen. He wouldnt have been elected if he went one way or the other, well he may have it would just hurt him a lot.

Most people that voted for bush did not know what they where doing. Plain and simple. They did not have the facts, and where diluted by his PR. Public Relations if you didnt know what that meant already. His whole you are not a patriot if you dont believe my way campaign. AKA THE PATRIOT ACT.

He has actually gone on live TV, and said "We are giving the world mixed opinions". MIXED OPINIONS ROFLMAO. I like to call that a FUCKING DEMOCRACY. You know the one that you are trying to spread.

I think there should be a complete ban on political discussion on this forum, as it only leads to silly, uninformed arguments. You will never convince anyone else on the internet that your political position is superior to his, such that he says "OH YOU'RE RIGHT, NOW I BELIEVE (X)."

All political threads should be immediately deleted. Just my .02

[quote7243572f70="jlaw"]I think there should be a complete ban on political discussion on this forum, as it only leads to silly, uninformed arguments. You will never convince anyone else on the internet that your political position is superior to his, such that he says "OH YOU'RE RIGHT, NOW I BELIEVE (X)."

All political threads should be immediately deleted. Just my .02[/quote7243572f70]

I agree. ^

I think these discussions are fine, as long as you don't let it get personal and get pissed off at each other.

I don't really know if I should even be reading this stuff, but everyone is keeping a level head. I don't know how many out there feel we defied the un, but I thought you may want to check this site out...and then see what your opinion on things was

http//www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/documents/resolutions/s-res-1441.pdf


That in case you didn't know was Resolution 1441 which was constantly mentioned before the war. Many people say we defied the UN by "going it alone" even though there was a coalition (not saying it was a huge coalition, but please if you are going to watch people's use of the english language please use it closely yourselves wink )....anyways reading number 13 kind of gives part of the reason that President Bush went into Iraq. But for some reason when push came to shove many nations didn't want to follow through with the serious consequences thing that had been mentioned many times before in other resolutions.

As far as the WMDs go, intelligience suggested that they were there, and to be honest I don't know if you can for sure say one way or the other if they were or not, as searching for something like weapons would take awhile, especially if Sadaam had any sense as he would find a good place to hide them, but I guess you never know. Plus there is all of the talk about during the first phases of the attacks US planes spotted covered trucks leaving Irag heading into Syria....but of course they could have just been delivering some grain or something, you never know.

So yeah I totally respect people's opinions on the war, personally I don't like the fact that we have people dying, but it is a war afterall and that is sadly a fact of war. I did support the war and still do. I also voted for Bush and I am informed of the facts. Kerry in my mind never took a solid stance on issues, he only seemed to offer that he'd do things differently. Well there are plenty of other ways to do things differently, how would you do them? Also with Bush I know that when he says he believes something or will do it I don't have much doubt in my mind and leaders must be decisive. Some of you won't agree with me and that's fine, just don't flame me 8) ....I just believe Bush is a man of his convictions and he always acts on what he feels is best for this country and that is what he did with Iraq as he didn't want to take the chance in a post 9/11 world of WMDs getting into the hands of terrorists (and in the past Sadaam had given money to the families of palestinian suicide bombers, so that is a show of support for terrorism). So Bush was acting on intelligience he had and had to decide between the security interests of his country or the opinion of other countries, and obviously he did what he felt was in his country's best interest.

So I apoligize for rambling but just wanted to add my little bit to the conversation and probably won't add much more as I don't want to step on many toes, I'm sorry if I already have, but I think things have been presently calmly.

P.S. Another aspect of this whole thing that is never really discussed, and of course I doubt ANY American politician would admit if they really think this way, but what if we went into Iraq for geopolitical reasons. If you look at a map of the Middle East you'll see that Iraq and Afghanistan are separated by one country....what is that country? and could they be a potential threat? would it beneficial to our national interests to have friendly countries neighboring this country if they are a potential threat to attack our country (directly or indirectly through handing off weapons)??? just something to think about. Thanks for reading if you actually did... have a great night )

[quotec55fbf72fe="jlaw"]I think there should be a complete ban on political discussion on this forum, as it only leads to silly, uninformed arguments. You will never convince anyone else on the internet that your political position is superior to his, such that he says "OH YOU'RE RIGHT, NOW I BELIEVE (X)."

All political threads should be immediately deleted. Just my .02[/quotec55fbf72fe]

What it really is is not changing a hard set person. All it really is is showing the facts, anyone who voted for Bush because of peer pressure will look at this, and be like OHH, and know the simple base facts.

It really isnt that difficult, as I think 90% of ev1 that I know that voted for Bush would vote differerantly if I seriously talked to them about it. It is simple facts that are seen when you awaken too them.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

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