The Death Penalty

What are your views on it?

i saw a show that had a segment about it a few days ago, and it got me thinking. i've never actually had a conversation with anyone in this country about it and i always had the impression that everyone was for it. its the only industrialised country on earth that still has it, and i dont really see too many people against it. im used to seeing politicians, presidents etc talking about it and getting huge applause, so i wasnt sure if thats why im thinking everyone is for it or not.

personally i dont believe in "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". i dont believe it is right or ethical, or justified.

if somebody murdered my family, i wouldnt want them dead. prison would be enough for me.

so whatcha think?

prison

BUT I prefer to take revenge (if he/she or they kill all my family) then I will be happier if I can do it my self
I know that a human doesn't have the right to kill another human (no reason) but I don't know, if it has to do with my family (or someone I love) then I cannot control my self (just like everybody else)

I'm against it. But I believe about 70% of the country is for it.

The US took a huge step within the last year and outlawed the death penalty for minors. Previous it had joined the ranks of China, Iran and North Korea as the only states that would kill minors.

The only thing I can say for the death penalty in the US is that at least it is a painless euthenization.

Cartrenroy, if the state allowed revenge killings it would lead to feuds which were a big problem before the 20th century.

i figure the only way the death penalty should be used is on a rapist

why only a rapist?

I'm for it

[quote4688739030="n3il89"]i figure the only way the death penalty should be used is on a rapist[/quote4688739030]

ur joking right?

neways... i'm a bit of both... i think if you have 100% undisputed proof that the killer did it (like OJ for example), then i'd give them death... but if there's proof but it's not 100% obvious then i'd say send them to jail... also the judge should look at the person, if it's some big dude then death for him coz prison will treat him better than say some skinny killer, in which case that dude's gonna get his salad tossed every day coz he's weak.

Hasek.

[quotea51093627d="xXHasek99"]... also the judge should look at the person, if it's some big dude then death for him coz prison will treat him better than say some skinny killer, in which case that dude's gonna get his salad tossed every day coz he's weak.

Hasek.[/quotea51093627d]

and your joking about that part right?

It's impossible to be 100% sure of someone's guilt. There can always be some doubt, regardless of how insignificant it may seem. I think a lifetime in prison is more effective than death, personally. It seems so barbaric to consider killing someone for a crime justified.

i'm for it

I would say because it costs too much money to keep somebody in jail for their lifetime, but the death penalty ends up costing the gov't even more money

prison life is just too easy and laid back these days, too many perks.. I'd be against the death penalty if they would just lock them in a cell in some shitty as prison with no amenitys

[quote032ef49d70="Batman"]It's impossible to be 100% sure of someone's guilt. There can always be some doubt, regardless of how insignificant it may seem. I think a lifetime in prison is more effective than death, personally. It seems so barbaric to consider killing someone for a crime justified.[/quote032ef49d70]

ok close to 100%... i mean like a TON of proof that he OBVIOUSLY did it... and as i said before i don't think giving some big dude life in prison's gonna punish him. he's probably not gonna be someones bitch there so he'll have a "good" time... AND since he's there for life he can kill ne1 he wants to, and i'm talking about the people who are there for like 1-5 years who shouldn't die by the hand of a life without a parole murdered.

[quotefdeb0d871d="tonydanza92"]i'm for it

I would say because it costs too much money to keep somebody in jail for their lifetime, but the death penalty ends up costing the gov't even more money

prison life is just too easy and laid back these days, too many perks.. I'd be against the death penalty if they would just lock them in a cell in some shitty as prison with no amenitys[/quotefdeb0d871d]

what makes you say death penalty ends up costing more?

and yeah, it's easier these days, i guess, hey tony i got a few weeks before skool, wanna come to prison with me? we get to work out, eat cooked meals, play sports, not to mention conjugal visits!

[quote26be8fcfb2="Batman"]It's impossible to be 100% sure of someone's guilt. There can always be some doubt, regardless of how insignificant it may seem. I think a lifetime in prison is more effective than death, personally. It seems so barbaric to consider killing someone for a crime justified.[/quote26be8fcfb2]

yeah exactly.

i understand that prisons (at least in this country, not sure about others) are burtsing at the seams, but i just dont see the reasoning for capital punishment, when prison can do the job fine.

i dont see why prisons cant be like they are supposed to be. no luxuries, no tv or house visits, no games room.....just 24 hour confinment. they are supposed to be punished, not put in a tough hotel.

a life sentence should mean life, not 25 years or 30 with probation or anything like that.

[quote05cab36dd6="xXHasek99"][quote05cab36dd6="Batman"]It's impossible to be 100% sure of someone's guilt. There can always be some doubt, regardless of how insignificant it may seem. I think a lifetime in prison is more effective than death, personally. It seems so barbaric to consider killing someone for a crime justified.[/quote05cab36dd6]

ok close to 100%... i mean like a TON of proof that he OBVIOUSLY did it... and as i said before i don't think giving some big dude life in prison's gonna punish him. he's probably not gonna be someones bitch there so he'll have a "good" time... AND since he's there for life he can kill ne1 he wants to, and i'm talking about the people who are there for like 1-5 years who shouldn't die by the hand of a life without a parole murdered.[/quote05cab36dd6]

the size of a man, makes them no less or more of a target.

just cos someone is big, doesnt mean they are tough, or mean, or angry, or wants to kill people.

It would be inhuman to put someone into solitary confinement for the rest of their life. They would go absolutely insane. Perhaps we require a stricter prison structure, but solitary confinement for life may be even more barbaric than killing them.

[quote81fcaa8906="theysayjump"][quote81fcaa8906="xXHasek99"][quote81fcaa8906="Batman"]It's impossible to be 100% sure of someone's guilt. There can always be some doubt, regardless of how insignificant it may seem. I think a lifetime in prison is more effective than death, personally. It seems so barbaric to consider killing someone for a crime justified.[/quote81fcaa8906]

ok close to 100%... i mean like a TON of proof that he OBVIOUSLY did it... and as i said before i don't think giving some big dude life in prison's gonna punish him. he's probably not gonna be someones bitch there so he'll have a "good" time... AND since he's there for life he can kill ne1 he wants to, and i'm talking about the people who are there for like 1-5 years who shouldn't die by the hand of a life without a parole murdered.[/quote81fcaa8906]

the size of a man, makes them no less or more of a target.

just cos someone is big, doesnt mean they are tough, or mean, or angry, or wants to kill people.[/quote81fcaa8906]

we're talking murderers here, they WANT to kill, they're probably mean, or psycho... if i wanna mess with some dude on the street, i'm not going for 6'5" 250pound dude, i'm going for the 5'7" 150lb dude, o and SIZE DOES MATTER[/size81fcaa8906].

[quote3c415d87d6="Batman"]It would be inhuman to put someone into solitary confinement for the rest of their life. They would go absolutely insane. Perhaps we require a stricter prison structure, but solitary confinement for life may be even more barbaric than killing them.[/quote3c415d87d6]

inhumane?? i guess them killing somebody wasn't that bad then either.


boohoo the SERIAL KILLER is being treated badly in prison

[quote9c6f8bceed="tonydanza92"][quote9c6f8bceed="Batman"]It would be inhuman to put someone into solitary confinement for the rest of their life. They would go absolutely insane. Perhaps we require a stricter prison structure, but solitary confinement for life may be even more barbaric than killing them.[/quote9c6f8bceed]

inhumane?? i guess them killing somebody wasn't that bad then either.


boohoo the SERIAL KILLER is being treated badly in prison[/quote9c6f8bceed]
I don't condone their actions, but it is just not possible to keep them in solitary confinement forever. That would most likely kill them, but in a much slower way than the death penalty.

I'd go for the death penalty over that, but I don't really feel that is justified either. I'm not sure what is justified in a situation in which the person has committed such serious crimes.

some people say they should be put to death the same way they killed whoever they did

you skin a person alive, you get skinned alive

put it in the lawbooks, so it has been said, and so it shall be done

[quotea8ebfeaaa4="tonydanza92"]some people say they should be put to death the same way they killed whoever they did

you skin a person alive, you get skinned alive

put it in the lawbooks, so it has been said, and so it shall be done[/quotea8ebfeaaa4]

yeah ive heard about people suggesting that being applied to all crimes.

but you cant really commit fraud on someone who is in jail for fraud can you?

or for someone who is in for creulty to animals or vandalism.

just wouldnt work lol.

Im somewhat for it. Think about it, if they killed someone or a lot of people do they really deserve to live? And if you answered yes to that well think, they would be locked up in a prison for life, which would me thousands upon thousands of wasted tax payer dollars, so lets say he kills someone you know/cared about, well you'd be paying for his prison sentence. Its stupid. For those that kill cause they dont care about the death penilty i say we go back to the electric chair.

[quotea95ed17f4d="CoMpFrEaK"]Im somewhat for it. Think about it, if they killed someone or a lot of people do they really deserve to live? And if you answered yes to that well think, they would be locked up in a prison for life, which would me thousands upon thousands of wasted tax payer dollars, so lets say he kills someone you know/cared about, well you'd be paying for his prison sentence. Its stupid. For those that kill cause they dont care about the death penilty i say we go back to the electric chair.[/quotea95ed17f4d]

I have seen things that show how the death penalty ends up costing way more money.. search for it you'll find it probably

I'm definitely against it

[quote2f766cd3fd="theysayjump"]
personally i dont believe in "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". i dont believe it is right or ethical, or justified.
[/quote2f766cd3fd]


EDIT
ElectrocutionAlabama, Arkansas, Florida, [Illinois], Kentucky, Nebraska, [Oklahoma], South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Gas ChamberArizona, California, Maryland, Missouri, [Wyoming]
HangingNew Hampshire, Washington
Firing SquadIdaho, [Oklahoma], Utah
Lethal Injectionall but Nebraska

It costs way more for the death penalty than to incarcerate someone for life. Here's a quote from Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty [=http//www.fadp.org/#cost] Floridians for Alternatives to the Death Penalty

[quote7c5f08940d]According to the Miami Herald, it costs 2 to 6 times as much to kill one person than to incarcerate for life. (3.2 million versus $750,000 in Florida). This cost is weighted UP FRONT - in the initial trial, not in the appeals process as so many believe. Since Florida's death penalty law was re-written in 1972, our state has spent more than $1 billion on its death penalty system, for a return of only 58 executions. That's more than $18,000,000 per execution, and for what return? Is this a good use of your tax dollars? [/quote7c5f08940d]

[quote35e64d2db1="geej86"]I'm definitely against it

[quote35e64d2db1="theysayjump"]
personally i dont believe in "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". i dont believe it is right or ethical, or justified.
[/quote35e64d2db1]


EDIT
ElectrocutionAlabama, Arkansas, Florida, [Illinois], Kentucky, Nebraska, [Oklahoma], South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Gas ChamberArizona, California, Maryland, Missouri, [Wyoming]
HangingNew Hampshire, Washington
Firing SquadIdaho, [Oklahoma], Utah
Lethal Injectionall but Nebraska[/quote35e64d2db1]

wtf????

hanging? firing squad? the fuckin gas chamber!??!?

well thats an eye opener. shock

[quote351132a720="theysayjump"][quote351132a720="geej86"]I'm definitely against it

[quote351132a720="theysayjump"]
personally i dont believe in "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". i dont believe it is right or ethical, or justified.
[/quote351132a720]


EDIT
ElectrocutionAlabama, Arkansas, Florida, [Illinois], Kentucky, Nebraska, [Oklahoma], South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Gas ChamberArizona, California, Maryland, Missouri, [Wyoming]
HangingNew Hampshire, Washington
Firing SquadIdaho, [Oklahoma], Utah
Lethal Injectionall but Nebraska[/quote351132a720]

wtf????

hanging? firing squad? the fuckin gas chamber!??!?

well thats an eye opener. shock[/quote351132a720]


Here's the actual figures of how people have been executed since 1976

Lethal Injection - 809
Electrocution - 152
Gas Chamber - 11
Hanging - 3
Firing Squad - 2

Texas is far in the lead since 1976 with 346 people executed in only 30 years.

But.... virginia is second since 1976 having killed 94 people. And they have the all time record for a US State having killed 1277 recorded people since 1608.

I'm for it. I'm sick of the pussy way we do things now a days. That's why there's so many murderers, rapists, and drug dealers. They don't respect the law systems and know they'll get away with anything through countless processes of appeals.

I'm all for death penalty being as simple as taking the fucker down to the baseman and shooting them in the head. What right has that bastard done by killing someone....?

I think the whole, if you kill a cop then it's automatically death, is fucked up. I don't see how killing a cop is worse then killing any other human being.

If they are going to kill criminals, and I'm against that, but if they are than they should definately find a cheaper way to do it. Incarcerate them for a set amount of time to allow new evidence to appear, maybe 5 years or so. And then like bball said, just shoot them. Bullets are cheap, apparently lethal injections are not.

I can see why someone would be against it because our legal system doesn't do the greatest job of finding the truth, but thats about the only reason.

Religion I can see as well, but judging from the post on religion, most of you guys aren't the slightest bit religious.

[quote465ab9edd3="theysayjump"][quote465ab9edd3="geej86"]I'm definitely against it

[quote465ab9edd3="theysayjump"]
personally i dont believe in "an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth". i dont believe it is right or ethical, or justified.
[/quote465ab9edd3]


EDIT
ElectrocutionAlabama, Arkansas, Florida, [Illinois], Kentucky, Nebraska, [Oklahoma], South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia
Gas ChamberArizona, California, Maryland, Missouri, [Wyoming]
HangingNew Hampshire, Washington
Firing SquadIdaho, [Oklahoma], Utah
Lethal Injectionall but Nebraska[/quote465ab9edd3]

wtf????

hanging? firing squad? the fuckin gas chamber!??!?

well thats an eye opener. shock[/quote465ab9edd3]

You didn't know that lol? Yeah it's kind of crazy. I'm for the death penalty. If someone kills someone than he should be killed as well. Unless this killing is in defense of himself in his home then I think he should die.

No one has the right to take someone else's life, no matter what, except for God.

Life in maximum security prison without possibility of parole. Sounds like maybe it would be worse to be there than to be dead.

I bet hell is worse.

[quotecd8362e541="J4320"]I bet hell is worse.[/quotecd8362e541]

Point taken.

Have you ever seen a maximum security prison? You might change your mind about that one...

J00 GUNNA G3T R4P3D IN T3H PRIS0N SH0W3RS!11!1!!!1!!!

[quoteb36fc2de0d="bballp6699"]I'm for it. I'm sick of the pussy way we do things now a days. That's why there's so many murderers, rapists, and drug dealers. They don't respect the law systems and know they'll get away with anything through countless processes of appeals.

I'm all for death penalty being as simple as taking the fucker down to the baseman and shooting them in the head. What right has that bastard done by killing someone....?

I think the whole, if you kill a cop then it's automatically death, is fucked up. I don't see how killing a cop is worse then killing any other human being.[/quoteb36fc2de0d]

i agree with about killing a cop. just cos you are a cop, does not make you a good or decent person. how many cops abuse their powers?

i dont agree with you, that just because someone killed someone else, means they should die.

although i dont believe in god to the fullest extent, i think taking someone elses life is playing god. whether you are the criminal or the judge.

100 years ago, capital punishment was far more widespread and used than it is today, but did that stop killers or rapists? no i dont think it did.

the amount of wrongly executed prisoners or "criminals" is probably incredible......thats another reason why i dont think it should be allowed.

the thing that surprises me is that if 70% of the population are for it, then that means that a lot of lefties and liberals are for it too.......which doesnt usually apply to most other procedures that are a debating point.......at least in my view anyway.

I would rather be dead then in prison, so I think prison serves as a more grueling punishment. Therefore I am against it. By the way thesayjump, I checked out that photo gallery in your sig, good stuff. )

True, but when capital punishment was used more widely people feared those in power more and therefore respected them. I watch TV and real life and see people swearing at cops, telling them they'll, "kick their asses". You think that shit would have gone on back then?

There are of course cops that are dick heads as I said in the other post, but when you fear the policing figure, you're less likely to do something stupid. You think there would be as many thieves if they got their hands chopped off like they do in other countries? I think not...

[quote6a65ea1db5="willr91"]By the way thesayjump, I checked out that photo gallery in your sig, good stuff. )[/quote6a65ea1db5]

thank you! D


[quote6a65ea1db5="bballp6699"]True, but when capital punishment was used more widely people feared those in power more and therefore respected them. I watch TV and real life and see people swearing at cops, telling them they'll, "kick their asses". You think that shit would have gone on back then?

There are of course cops that are dick heads as I said in the other post, but when you fear the policing figure, you're less likely to do something stupid. You think there would be as many thieves if they got their hands chopped off like they do in other countries? I think not...[/quote6a65ea1db5]

personally i dont think that cops should have to be called sir and shit.......thats just not me......not all authoratative figures have to spoken to like that.

Agreed, but should they have friends of those arrested threatening them while they are trying to take criminals off the street?

There are dickhead cops, but I also respect what cops do everyday to keep the streets safe.

Cops freak me out. They can shoot you when you don't freeze when they say freeze right? Because when I was younger me and my friend were playing ninjas in my yard and the neighbors thought we were robbers.

They called the cops and I saw the cops coming and I was on this tall hill thing in my yard. I was lower on the hill and my friend was on top of the hill. When the cops saw us I jumped off of the hill thing right when they said freeze. And my friend froze but I was already inside of the yard where they couldn't see me and I ran inside.

My friend had to sit there for like 15 minutes with his hands up while I sat inside waiting for the cops to ring the door. But anyway, the cops can shoot you when you don't freeze right?

oh no, i agree completely.......the vast majority of cops do a good job, a job that id never do.

the sad thing is, that its probably the cops in a higher up position who abuse their powers. corruption is a very bad thing, but corruption in the police force is even worse.

they are the law, and if they can abuse the law, then they can basically do what they want.....and its not just in this country, i know it happens all over the world.

some places id like to travel to someday, the only thing holding me back would be the corrupt police force......namely south/central america.

[quote098b5a0107="J4320"]Cops freak me out. They can shoot you when you don't freeze when they say freeze right? Because when I was younger me and my friend were playing ninjas in my yard and the neighbors thought we were robbers.

They called the cops and I saw the cops coming and I was on this tall hill thing in my yard. I was lower on the hill and my friend was on top of the hill. When the cops saw us I jumped off of the hill thing right when they said freeze. And my friend froze but I was already inside of the yard where they couldn't see me and I ran inside.

My friend had to sit there for like 15 minutes with his hands up while I sat inside waiting for the cops to ring the door. But anyway, the cops can shoot you when you don't freeze right?[/quote098b5a0107]

Rarely. Just don't reach for your pockets. shock

Haha i just took a look at your photos too, you like using high ISO eh?

For as popular as devient art is, you'd think they'd stop being cheap fuckers and buy a good server. That site has always been slow.

[quotef4819f0e79="CoMpFrEaK"]Haha i just took a look at your photos too, you like using high ISO eh?[/quotef4819f0e79]

yeah, it lets more light in and i can capture things moving at higher speeds, you can keep the shutter above 100, keep things still and have a good amount of light also.....the only drawback is that anything above 400 starts to get noisey....luckily Neat Image Pro helps with that.

and yeah deviant could do with being a little bit faster.

well that was a strange change in subject.

I'm for it.

While it might be barbaric to some, you have to think of the victims who these people have harmed.

If someone murdered my loved one, I wouldn't feel a sense of closure until their life was ended.

How can you go on living your life, if the person who stole your wife or daughter away from you is free to eat, sleep, breathe?

[quotee8d3271c91="wood"]I'm for it.

While it might be barbaric to some, you have to think of the victims who these people have harmed.

If someone murdered my loved one, I wouldn't feel a sense of closure until their life was ended.

How can you go on living your life, if the person who stole your wife or daughter away from you is free to eat, sleep, breathe?[/quotee8d3271c91]

its called having a conscience, a respect for human life.

true that the murderer may not have, but we as non-murderers are supposed to be above that, we are supposed to have respect for human life.

if someone killed my wife, i would feel exactly like them if i had them killed. it makes me just as bad, as low as them.

Hey theysayjump always brings up the controversial threads. D

If someone killed my wife, I'd want to kill them my self. Fuck the electric chair or injection. I'd want to boil every part of their body and chop off every appendage.

[quote92140624c2="J4320"]Hey theysayjump always brings up the controversial threads. D[/quote92140624c2]

im just trying to stir up some interesting debate......its better than the usual "should i get this, should i get that, what does this mean" kinda stuff you usually see.

we have a forum where we are allowed to express our opinions and views.....so why not? D

Yeah I'm tired of seeing free related stuff in the off-topic. We should have a free site general discussion section and an off-topic section with nothing to do with free sites.

if they did that, then it would just start to be more like A4F, which is too confusing to me......400 forums with, 57 sub-boards, each with their own special board........i think its good the way it is.

[quote4b29885c0a="theysayjump"]if they did that, then it would just start to be more like A4F, which is too confusing to me......400 forums with, 57 sub-boards, each with their own special board........i think its good the way it is.[/quote4b29885c0a]

agreed ;)

[quote104190cdc5="J4320"]
My friend had to sit there for like 15 minutes with his hands up while I sat inside waiting for the cops to ring the door. But anyway, the cops can shoot you when you don't freeze right?[/quote104190cdc5]

The way I understand it, they can't shoot you if you're just running away from them. However, if you make a move as to reach for a weapon, or go after the cops/someone else, then they'll pop so many bullets in your ass, you'd think you were a strainer.

"In 82% of the studies [reviewed], race of the victim was found to influence the likelihood of being charged with capital murder or receiving the death penalty, i.e., those who murdered whites were found more likely to be sentenced to death than those who murdered blacks."
- United States General Accounting Office, Death Penalty Sentencing, February 1990

There's a good reason not to trust the judicial system enough to allow it to kill people.

I just don't think the state should have the right to kill people, I don't believe it's a function of government. Most of the governments of the world seem to hold this view.

[quote7f9143881e="comppimp"][quote7f9143881e="J4320"]
My friend had to sit there for like 15 minutes with his hands up while I sat inside waiting for the cops to ring the door. But anyway, the cops can shoot you when you don't freeze right?[/quote7f9143881e]

The way I understand it, they can't shoot you if you're just running away from them. However, if you make a move as to reach for a weapon, or go after the cops/someone else, then they'll pop so many bullets in your ass, you'd think you were a strainer.[/quote7f9143881e]

Yeah and I heard if they're gonna shoot you they have to shoot to kill. But I'm pretty sure I jumped down before they even saw me. And when the cops talked to me they got all pissed at me for sneaking away because my friend told them that I ran away.

so you are sneaky and your friend is a grass? lol

Your Scottish terminology isn't understood all that well...

[quote78bc02a9d5="theysayjump"]so you are sneaky and your friend is a grass? lol[/quote78bc02a9d5]

Well my friend didn't notice the cops coming and I jumped down right when they got out and started to say freeze. And they got out this spotlight thing and I slowly crept back into my house and I watched my friend and laughed at him. There were some robberies in my neighborhood so the cops were already patrolling and they thought they caught the robbers but it was just us. They got kind of pissed because they didn't get the robbers.

But one thing that bothered me was the fact that they didn't say, "FREEZE! POLICE!" They just yelled, "FREEZE, STOP RIGHT THERE!" So my friend kind of laughed out loud because he thought it was the neighbors or something joking and this made the cops even more pissed.

[quote1110192fde="bballp6699"]Your Scottish terminology isn't understood all that well...[/quote1110192fde]

well im sure you know what sneaky means......when someone is a grass, then they are a rat as you might say here.....they rat their friends out, like a snake in the grass kinda thing.

D

Ah I see. I wasn't getting the grass part either. But I assumed it had to due with stealth.

And I'm a stealth master. All of these years of T.P. -ing people's houses and avoiding the dogs has made me really stealthy. I've taught a few people how to be stealthy. There are many ways. It's fun. Did you know you can make a mask for your entire face out of a t-shirt?

uhhh.....you just pull it over your head right?

Yeah, I know how to make a ninja mask with a t-shirt. They're awesome. D

[quote8dbcbbc164="theysayjump"]uhhh.....you just pull it over your head right?[/quote8dbcbbc164]

Lol if you want to look like an idiot... Sure...

What I do is I turn the t-shirt inside out and I put the hole from where your head goes in front of my face. Then I tie the two sleeves of the shirt around my head and I pull up the front part of the shirt over my face. It's really hard to explain. It looks like a real ninja mask though and you can't tell the difference. It's perfect for T.P.ing.

Here's how to do it, from http//www.realultimatepower.net/

http//www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/rup/ACF8B85.JPG[" alt=""/imgac0fcfcff1]

lol, that is sweet!

im gonna try it D

Very cool

Yeah good job Batman. That's what I ALWAYS use when I do crazy stuff and I don't want anyone to know it's me. It's really cool because you can just take your shirt off and automatically have a mask. But I haven't been T.P.-ing in forever so I haven't used it in a while.

was just gonna make a nw thread but thought it would be more interesting to see if any of the previous voters have had a change of heart lol

im %10000 for the death penalty. Especially for people like ed gein, jeffery dharma, ted bundy and other especially sick fucks not wothy of being called human beings.

Such a nub back then, but I still agree with what I said.

what good does it do to put serial killers who use the skin of their victims to make lamp shades in prison?

The only problem i see with the death penalty today is that it usually costs a shitload more for tax payers than life in prison.

[quote55f071a4fd="JUNIOR6886"]what good does it do to put serial killers who use the skin of their victims to make lamp shades in prison?

The only problem i see with the death penalty today is that it usually costs a shitload more for tax payers than life in prison.[/quote55f071a4fd]

Well, in prison they can kill other baddies and use THEIR skin to make lampshades for the warden.

In prison; Lampshades = Currency/Parole.

[quote7080734089="JUNIOR6886"]what good does it do to put serial killers who use the skin of their victims to make lamp shades in prison?

[b7080734089]The only problem i see with the death penalty today is that it usually costs a shitload more for tax payers than life in prison.[/b7080734089][/quote7080734089]
huh? I thought it was the opposite

[quote148c152b56="zdub08"][quote148c152b56="JUNIOR6886"]what good does it do to put serial killers who use the skin of their victims to make lamp shades in prison?

[b148c152b56]The only problem i see with the death penalty today is that it usually costs a shitload more for tax payers than life in prison.[/b148c152b56][/quote148c152b56]
huh? I thought it was the opposite[/quote148c152b56]
Most would argue it IS the opposite. However there are folks arguing on the other side as well. I think it really depends on the case in question and the length of time between sentence and execution, but I believe in most cases where the convict is fairly young, it will prove far more expensive to house them for life.

Last I read it costs approximately $30-$35K per year to keep someone in a maximum security prison. So someone who is sentenced at, say 25 years old, and lives to be 65 (a conservative age, even for prison), costs around 40 li $33K = $1.32M. If they live to 75 then that's another $330K.

Now what might make death penalty cases seem more "expensive" are the exhaustive appeals. Most lifers aren't constantly appealing, unless they're rich, while death row inmates are automatically appealed until they're executed. The problem is that our inefficient justice system is too slow and allows those appeals to drag on for far too long and incur way too much expense.

IMO, give someone 5 years to appeal their sentence, and process the appeals promptly such that at least one appeal per year gets heard. If in at least five attempts they cannot introduce enough evidence to overturn the sentence, then lights out.

[quote0b5f8371f4="zdub08"][quote0b5f8371f4="JUNIOR6886"]what good does it do to put serial killers who use the skin of their victims to make lamp shades in prison?

[b0b5f8371f4]The only problem i see with the death penalty today is that it usually costs a shitload more for tax payers than life in prison.[/b0b5f8371f4][/quote0b5f8371f4]
huh? I thought it was the opposite[/quote0b5f8371f4]

a common misconception (
As you probably already know, we dont just pump a bullet into the brain of a criminal 5 minutes after they are sentenced to death.

without going into detail, What usually happens is the person gets put on death row(at times upwards of 20 years) while appeals after appeals get proccessed. Combine the costs associated with the acually execution itself and it all adds up to millions of dollars in some cases.

according to deathpenaltyinfo .orgurl==http://=http:///url
[quote0b5f8371f4]Florida spent average of $3.2 million per execution from 1973 to 1988
During that time period, Florida spent an estimated $57 million on the death penalty to achieve 18 executions. (Miami Herald, July 10, 1988) [/quote0b5f8371f4] keep in mind that deathpenaltyinfo.org is ANTI death penalty.

I don't really see revenge as a good enough motive to put people to death. No matter how well they're treated, prison is still prison and I'm sure most wish they weren't there so it does serve as some level of punishment.

I think that we should take a lesson from Singapore as far as penalties go.

we have laws against "cruel and unusual punishment" ugh
personally id like to see the guillotine, firing squad and crucifixion make a comeback. That along with much shorter appeals like dmorris mentioned would make the death penalty a much stonger deterrent.

[quotee6321d95dd="aviendha47"]I don't really see revenge as a good enough motive to put people to death. No matter how well they're treated, prison is still prison and I'm sure most wish they weren't there so it does serve as some level of punishment.[/quotee6321d95dd]

I dont think youd say something like that if someone like ted bundy murdered your loved ones.
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/Ted_Bundy_4.jpg/180px-Ted_Bundy_4.jpg[" alt=""/imge6321d95dd]
And from the looks of him at his trial he wasnt the least bit remorseful about his actions. He actually escaped prision TWICE (although fucked in the head he was pratically a genius as far as his intellect goes) and murdered more people before being caught once and for all and executed. He appealed again and again and tried every trick you can possible to get only like in prision and save his wretched skin. He even said hed give details about the locations of some of his victims bodies if he "had more time" The terror he must have felt before 2000 volts went into his body will serve as some level as punishment but its hardly enough (

I am 100% against the death penalty. No one deserves to die...even if they killed a lot of people. We become the murderers then. Plus, the criminals suffer more in prison.

I voted for the death penalty.

In my schooling days i've written numerous papers about capital punishment.

[quote4447b6f9ad="JUNIOR6886"]we have laws against "cruel and unusual punishment" ugh
personally id like to see the guillotine, firing squad and crucifixion make a comeback. That along with much shorter appeals like dmorris mentioned would make the death penalty a much stonger deterrent.

[quote4447b6f9ad="aviendha47"]I don't really see revenge as a good enough motive to put people to death. No matter how well they're treated, prison is still prison and I'm sure most wish they weren't there so it does serve as some level of punishment.[/quote4447b6f9ad]

[b4447b6f9ad]I dont think youd say something like that if someone like ted bundy murdered your loved ones. [/b4447b6f9ad]
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/17/Ted_Bundy_4.jpg/180px-Ted_Bundy_4.jpg[" alt=""/img4447b6f9ad]
And from the looks of him at his trial he wasnt the least bit remorseful about his actions. He actually escaped prision TWICE (although fucked in the head he was pratically a genius as far as his intellect goes) and murdered more people before being caught once and for all and executed. He appealed again and again and tried every trick you can possible to get only like in prision and save his wretched skin. He even said hed give details about the locations of some of his victims bodies if he "had more time" [b4447b6f9ad]The terror he must have felt before 2000 volts went into his body will serve as some level as punishment but its hardly enough[/b4447b6f9ad] ([/quote4447b6f9ad]


I still disagree shrug Whether it be a family member or otherwise I still don't see it. What do you suggest if killing isn't enough? Would you like to add some form of torture to make it that much a worse punishment for those you believe deserve it most?

[quote37e70eec16="aviendha47"]What do you suggest if killing isn't enough? Would you like to add some form of torture to make it that much a worse punishment for those you believe deserve it most?[/quote37e70eec16]
Depending on the circumstances, yeah, but I'll settle for just killing them "humanely."

I'm a peaceful and very compassionate person... to a point. But my personal and strongly held opinion is that once you cross the threshold of inflicting premeditated, intentional death or equivalent suffering upon another innocent person, then as far as I'm concerned, you forfeit your rights to be a human and to live and breath the same air as me. You're trash, and like the trash, you need to be destroyed and removed from society forthwith -- unless you have a verifiable and well-documented mental illness that can be proven beyond doubt to have contributed to your loss of control, to the point where you had no idea that what you were doing was wrong. Which does not describe the vast majority of murderers, rapists, and child molesters. While certainly it takes some degree of mental illness to even fathom the things they've done, let alone carry them out, the fact that they knew it was wrong and continued anyway means they're evil, and should be exterminated IMO.

/soapbox

junior your examples seem pretty rash, I mean there is only one ted bundy per generation. I am not any expert on the matter, and was never an area I studied in school. However from what I understand most serial killers posses numerous psycological traits that distinguish them away from the rest of society.

The number 1 trait I see again and again is anti social disorder. They have no sense of society, there is nothing that instills fear in them. Lots of everyday heroes have it too, they were just raised in a healthy manner and never had the psychopathic tendencies others might.

The death penalty instills no fear in the gravest of our society.

Ted bundy was anything but insane, Hes known for using his social skills to lure his victims and keep himself out of trouble. He actually did a pretty good job defending himself in court (as good as one could possibly do with the ammount of evidence stacked against him.) The judge who sentenced him to death even remarked that he was very impressed and that he wouldve made a very good lawyer

Jeffery Dahmer was worse than ted bundy and they are basically in the same generation. According to wikipedia, His murders involved acts of forcible sodomy, necrophilia, dismemberment, and cannibalism. He even said that human flesh "tasted like beef" to him. Anyone who calls this guy a human being is utterly ridiculous. He only got 15 life sentences. (Justice still ended up being served somewhat when he was beaten to death in prison by a schizophrenic psychopath with messianic delusions ) )

The death penalty instills no fear in the gravest of our society? remember tookie williams? he did everything he could to prevent being put to death. If he wasnt afraid of death he wouldnt have put as much effort as he did into getting a mere life sentence.

I don't know who tookie williams is. However Ted Bundy, i didn't say he was insane, I said he was a psychopath.
traits of a psychopath from wikipedia
li 1. Superficial charm and above average intelligence.
li 2. Absence of delusions and other signs of irrational thinking.
li 3. Absence of nervousness or neurotic manifestations.
li 4. Unreliability.
li 5. Untruthfulness and insincerity.
li 6. Lack of remorse or shame.
li 7. Antisocial behavior without apparent compunction.
li 8. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience.
li 9. Pathological egocentricity and incapacity to love.
li 10. General poverty in major affective reactions.
li 11. Specific loss of insight.
li 12. Unresponsiveness in general interpersonal relations.
li 13. Fantastic and uninviting behavior with drink, and sometimes without.
li 14. Suicide threats rarely carried out.
li 15. Sex life impersonal, trivial, and poorly integrated.
li 16. Failure to follow any life plan.

Psychopaths also have a markedly distorted sense of the potential consequences of their actions, not only for others, but also for themselves. They do not, for example, deeply recognize the risk of being caught, disbelieved or injured as a result of their behavior.

A man like ted bundy comes along once every generation...Justifying the death penalty on a few famous serial killers seems pretty rash as they make up a very small minority of our population.

[quotea142cc5228="justinag06"]A man like ted bundy comes along once every generation...Justifying the death penalty on a few famous serial killers seems pretty rash as they make up a very small minority of our population.[/quotea142cc5228]
I don't think he nor I were justifying the death penalty only for serial killers. He was just using an example of Bundy.

It isn't about the number that you kill, it's the how & why. Homicide as a result of heat of passion, negligent manslaughter, self defense, battered wife syndrome, etc. should not punished by death (IMO the latter two shouldn't be punished period). However, cold-blooded, premeditated murder against an innocent victim, and especially against a weaker sex or aged person, or involving torture and other heinous infliction of suffering, deserves nothing less than the same in return, IMO. Whether it's one victim or ten victims doesn't matter. I'm also inclined to support the death penalty in cases of aggravated rape and child molestation.

[quote8bfe8b2269="dmorris68"][quote8bfe8b2269="justinag06"]A man like ted bundy comes along once every generation...Justifying the death penalty on a few famous serial killers seems pretty rash as they make up a very small minority of our population.[/quote8bfe8b2269]
I don't think he nor I were justifying the death penalty only for serial killers. He was just using an example of Bundy.[/quote8bfe8b2269]

exactly, with topics like this i tend to use extreme examples to drive my point D

btw tookie williams was one of the founders of the crips street gang...

Ok just curious why you kept using bundy/dahmer/gacy as your examples, because they are too extreme to really take into consideration in my opinion.

[quote097c1d5a91="dmorris68"][quote097c1d5a91="justinag06"]A man like ted bundy comes along once every generation...Justifying the death penalty on a few famous serial killers seems pretty rash as they make up a very small minority of our population.[/quote097c1d5a91]
I don't think he nor I were justifying the death penalty only for serial killers. He was just using an example of Bundy.

It isn't about the number that you kill, it's the how & why. Homicide as a result of heat of passion, negligent manslaughter, self defense, battered wife syndrome, etc. should not punished by death (IMO the latter two shouldn't be punished period). However, cold-blooded, premeditated murder against an innocent victim, and especially against [b097c1d5a91]a weaker sex [/b097c1d5a91]or aged person, or involving torture and other heinous infliction of suffering, deserves nothing less than the same in return, IMO. Whether it's one victim or ten victims doesn't matter. I'm also inclined to support the death penalty in cases of aggravated rape and child molestation.[/quote097c1d5a91]

"a weaker sex"? lol...just how many sexes are there? you're showing your age and geographic location by that statement wink

Nevertheless, I am inclined to agree with almost everything you've said. There is a certain level of "eye for eye" mentality within me where murder and atrocious assault is committed...and though the same archaic practice for theives (cutting off hands) would certainly lower the crime rate (by effectively eliminating repeat offenders, if nothing else), I'm not inclined to support it either.

As for aggravated rape and child molestation...as a woman (NOT saying that only women can be/are raped) and mother, my first reaction is to agree whole-heartedly.

Looking at it as emotionally unattached as possible, there might be better ways. In the case of "aggravated" rape we'd have to include that same level of punishment for nearly all battery; since sex is rarely (read never) the issue in rape, but rather violent power displays, even castrating offenders (whether thru drugs or the good, old-fashioned way) would not solve the problem in the end. Those rapists would simply find another way to carry out that violence/aggression.

I'm no tree-hugger, but if the behavior can be changed without eradicating the offender...it's probably worth a try, IMO. In the case of child molestation (and believe me the very PHRASE sickens, horrifies and infuriates me), often the act itself is the only detriment to society. I know that sounded very flippant and I have NO intention of making light of such a serious problem, but these days it's such a frightening thing for parents because child molesters really COULD be your next door neighbor...simply because they are so damn NORMAL in every other aspect of life. While I can't understand the sick desire they feel, it's a "sexual attraction" I suppose. If that desire could be eliminated without ending the life of the offender, he (/she?) COULD possibly become useful members of society. All of that was elementary of course, because even having said that...I've no doubt that I could personally eviscerate any sick fuck who laid their hands on my son(s).

With murderers, I see no use in society for them when their primary objective is to systematically remove the other members. So, in essence they should be removed themselves (like trash, as you said). That's more of a sociological survival of the fittest approach...not exactly, but still...a group decision to remove a threat.

Okay...that's got to be the longest post I've ever made roll

The death penalty, just like prisons, is a crock. It is only suitable to use it when you have an extreme case in which the offender is unresponsive to rehabilitative efforts, and is, beyond any doubt, going to re-offend. Even in this situation, however, prison is an alternative solution.

Nobody should argue that the death penalty is a deterrent, because it really isn't. Most crimes that elicit the death penalty as a response are "heat of passion" crimes, in which the offender simply snaps, and kills someone. Also, there are the extremely rare cases of atypical offenders (all serial killers) who plan and premeditate, and enjoy their crimes. In these cases, the death penalty is, again, ineffective as a deterrent.

So, the death penalty should only, logically used in the rare cases of atypical offenders who are going to re-offend, and not rehabilitate. But even then, simply killing the offender is letting them off the hook, so to speak. Just kill them? Or let them stew in prison for 70 or so years?

Wow, I used to have a serious potty mouth.

[quote46f5642872="booklover1104"]"a weaker sex"? lol...just how many sexes are there? you're showing your age and geographic location by that statement wink [/quote46f5642872]
You're absolutely right, I apologize for the choice of words. Yes I'm older than most of you, and I guess you can say I still have a bit of the old view of men being protectors of women. Yet, political correctness aside for the moment, in the majority of violent crimes against women, it is at the hands of stronger males against whom they have no real chance to defend themselves (unarmed anyway). While it does happen, it's still exceedingly rare that a male is physically terrorized and abused at the hands of a woman. That's what I was getting at.

[quote46f5642872="Fr1zzank"]Nobody should argue that the death penalty is a deterrent, because it really isn't. Most crimes that elicit the death penalty as a response are "heat of passion" crimes, in which the offender simply snaps, and kills someone. Also, there are the extremely rare cases of atypical offenders (all serial killers) who plan and premeditate, and enjoy their crimes. In these cases, the death penalty is, again, ineffective as a deterrent.[/quote46f5642872]
Whoa, gotta disagree with this entire paragraph.

Firstly, I'll argue that it is a deterrent. Just look at the vast majority of death row inmates trying furiously to get their sentences commuted to life in prison. From that, logic tells me they themselves would prefer life to death, which I would suggest also weighs on some criminals' minds who are considering a crime. Studies have shown evidence of deterrence, and I've read interviews with criminals before who have said the prospect of a death sentence IS something they think about.

Of course we can go back and forth with articles and studies that support our own opinions, but since this one just came out last week I'll mention it and move on.

http//www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,280215,00.html

(before someone complains about that being FOX News, the report is an Associated Press report, not by a FOX reporter, and FOX was the first news site I found it at just now).

[quote46f5642872]"Science does really draw a conclusion. It did. There is no question about it," said Naci Mocan, an economics professor at the University of Colorado at Denver. "The conclusion is there is a deterrent effect."

A 2003 study he co-authored, and a 2006 study that re-examined the data, found that each execution results in five fewer homicides, and commuting a death sentence means five more homicides. "The results are robust, they don't really go away," he said. "I oppose the death penalty. But my results show that the death penalty (deters) — what am I going to do, hide them?"

Statistical studies like his are among a dozen papers since 2001 that capital punishment has deterrent effects. They all explore the same basic theory — if the cost of something (be it the purchase of an apple or the act of killing someone) becomes too high, people will change their behavior (forego apples or shy from murder).

To explore the question, they look at executions and homicides, by year and by state or county, trying to tease out the impact of the death penalty on homicides by accounting for other factors, such as unemployment data and per capita income, the probabilities of arrest and conviction, and more.

Among the conclusions

• Each execution deters an average of 18 murders, according to a 2003 nationwide study by professors at Emory University. (Other studies have estimated the deterred murders per execution at three, five and 14).

• The Illinois moratorium on executions in 2000 led to 150 additional homicides over four years following, according to a 2006 study by professors at the University of Houston.

• Speeding up executions would strengthen the deterrent effect. For every 2.75 years cut from time spent on death row, one murder would be prevented, according to a 2004 study by an Emory University professor.

In 2005, there were 16,692 cases of murder and nonnegligent manslaughter nationally. There were 60 executions.

The studies' conclusions drew a philosophical response from a well-known liberal law professor, University of Chicago's Cass Sunstein. A critic of the death penalty, in 2005 he co-authored a paper titled "Is capital punishment morally required?"

"If it's the case that executing murderers prevents the execution of innocents by murderers, then the moral evaluation is not simple," he told The Associated Press. "Abolitionists or others, like me, who are skeptical about the death penalty haven't given adequate consideration to the possibility that innocent life is saved by the death penalty."

Sunstein said that moral questions aside, the data needs more study.[/quote46f5642872]
Regarding your suggestion that the majority of death penalty sentences are from "heat of passion" crimes, I don't think you have a full understanding of the US Justice System. The exact opposite is true. To even qualify as capital murder (i.e. eligible for a death sentence) you must show malice aforethought, one of the primary conditions to qualify as first degree capital murder, along with other criteria that separates ordinary first degree murder from capital murder. "Heat of passion" murder by definition is never even first degree murder, let along capital murder, and as far as I've ever heard, has never been eligible for the death penalty in the US. Passion murder convictions range from second degree murder to both voluntary and involuntary manslaughter.

[quotea506bbfae9="justinag06"]Ok just curious why you kept using bundy/dahmer/gacy as your examples, because they are too extreme to really take into consideration in my opinion.[/quotea506bbfae9]

mainly because people wouldnt counter those examples with statements like this.

[quotea506bbfae9]I'm no tree-hugger, but if the behavior can be changed without eradicating the offender...it's probably worth a try, IMO[/quotea506bbfae9]

dont think shed suggest talking ed gein into not removing peoples facial skin and using them to make lamp shades... but okay enough with the craziest of the crazy

heres a far more mellow example
A man pulls out a gun at a gas station and demands the cashier hand him all the money in the register. The casheir hands the robber the money but the robber callously shoots him in the head and kills him anyways. The robber is later caught. I still say the robber should be executed and not serve life in prison. why does he get to live?

EDIT ok just saw this from digg its a bit of an odd case but couldnt resist
http//digg.com/gaming_news/Man_kills_his_daughter_because_she_turned_off_his_Xbox
A man killed his 17 month old daughter after she pulled the cord of his xbox 360 while he was in the middle of a Ghost Recon game

heres his excuse
In his statement, Tyrone Spellman, said that ,"She pulled the cord and the whole game console fell over. I thought it was broken. I popped her in the face. I picked her up and tossed her in a chair."

soooooooo life in prision, death or lets try to convince him not to chuck kids across the room when the interupt your xbox 360 gaming experience

[quote9bd846a228="dmorris68"]Whoa, gotta disagree with this entire paragraph.

Firstly, I'll argue that it is a deterrent. Just look at the vast majority of death row inmates trying furiously to get their sentences commuted to life in prison. From that, logic tells me they themselves would prefer life to death, which I would suggest also weighs on some criminals' minds who are considering a crime. Studies have shown evidence of deterrence, and I've read interviews with criminals before who have said the prospect of a death sentence IS something they think about.[/quote9bd846a228]

Yes, those inmates are afraid of death. Good for them. Thing is, these are offenders that have already committed their crime, and been sentenced to death for it. So, did it the thought of a death penalty stop them from committing their crime? Apparently not.

The point I was making is that typically crimes that are punishable by death are "heat of passion" crimes. Wherein something happens which causes the offender to simply snap, and kill. When the offender is swept up in the heat of passion, they are not rational-thinking. Therefore, the do not weigh the consequences of their actions, and there[i9bd846a228]in[/i9bd846a228], the fear of a death penalty is null.

Then there's the rare cases of serial killers. To them, death is no big thing. Again, death penalty as a deterrent fails.

So, overall, death penalty as a deterrent is crap. Death penalty as a means of eradicating irreparable offenders, and possibly giving closure to the victims' families not as crap.

[quote1a62059a7b="JUNIOR6886"][quote1a62059a7b="justinag06"]Ok just curious why you kept using bundy/dahmer/gacy as your examples, because they are too extreme to really take into consideration in my opinion.[/quote1a62059a7b]

mainly because people wouldnt counter those examples with statements like this.

[quote1a62059a7b]I'm no tree-hugger, but if the behavior can be changed without eradicating the offender...it's probably worth a try, IMO[/quote1a62059a7b]

dont think shed suggest talking ed gein into not removing peoples facial skin and using them to make lamp shades... but okay enough with the craziest of the crazy

heres a far more mellow example
A man pulls out a gun at a gas station and demands the cashier hand him all the money in the register. The casheir hands the robber the money but the robber callously shoots him in the head and kills him anyways. The robber is later caught. I still say the robber should be executed and not serve life in prison. why does he get to live?

EDIT ok just saw this from digg its a bit of an odd case but couldnt resist
http//digg.com/gaming_news/Man_kills_his_daughter_because_she_turned_off_his_Xbox
A man killed his 17 month old daughter after she pulled the cord of his xbox 360 while he was in the middle of a Ghost Recon game

heres his excuse
In his statement, Tyrone Spellman, said that ,"She pulled the cord and the whole game console fell over. I thought it was broken. I popped her in the face. I picked her up and tossed her in a chair."

soooooooo life in prision, death or lets try to convince him not to chuck kids across the room when the interupt your xbox 360 gaming experience[/quote1a62059a7b]
Life in prison.

[quote121fea4601="Fr1zzank"]The point I was making is that typically crimes that are punishable by death are "heat of passion" crimes. Wherein something happens which causes the offender to simply snap, and kill. When the offender is swept up in the heat of passion, they are not rational-thinking. Therefore, the do not weigh the consequences of their actions, and there[i121fea4601]in[/i121fea4601], the fear of a death penalty is null. [/quote121fea4601]
Did you not read the closing paragraph from my post you quoted? "Heat of Passion" murderers [b121fea4601]are virtually never eligible for the death penalty in the US.[/b121fea4601]

Although specifics can vary by state, generally speaking only premeditated first degree murders with special circumstances -- which [b121fea4601]excludes[/b121fea4601] passion or "snap" killings -- are eligible for the death penalty. In most states, even "ordinary" first degree murder is not punishible by death -- there have to be "special circumstances" which makes the murder extra "bad." Passion killings by definition are not even considered premeditated, let alone capital. The vast majority of death row inmates are there because they planned their killings or were fully coherent at the time they decided to kill someone, or were engaged in an activity that was known to carry a reasonable likelyhood of somebody being killed (such as commission of a felony while armed). Therefore they are not subject to a "passion" defense, which makes your argument that 'typically crimes that are punishable by death are "heat of passion" crimes' completely incorrect.

Okay, sorry. I didn't notice the last paragraph. I think I should be "durnk posting" tonight P But anyhow, the point you're trying to make, it seems, is self-defeating. So, assuming that only offenders who are coherent, rational-thinking, pre-meditate, and commit whatever other special circumstances that makes the crime "bad", are the only ones to be issued death penalties, then what proof is that of the death penalty's ability to deter? My whole argument is that it sucks as a deterrent. And if you're saying that the only people who suffer the death penalty are people who are conscious of the consequences of their actions (read KNOW they will be killed for their crime), then it STILL sucks as a deterrent.

I'm not trying to fight, just provide my insight. Crime, criminals, and the criminal mind are things I'm going to be getting into for my future D

lol I don't consider it fighting, we're having an intelligent debate. Completely different thing. ;)

As the study I posted earlier shows, there IS a deterrent factor. Not only deterrence in the sense of someone thinking twice before killing, but also that they will not be able to kill again after being executed. A large percentage of murderers would go on to kill again. So it is a deterrence both before and after the fact.

Most criminals never think they'll be caught in the first place, but the idea of paying the ultimate price if they DO get caught will no doubt weigh on some of their minds. Not 100%, sure -- pure evil psychopaths think they're above society's laws anyway. But I'm sure there are plenty of potential capital murderers who thought of the consequences.

Criminals have been interviewed and stated that they were conscious of their behavior and many were careful to try to not meet those special circumstances when they committed crime. For example, they might wait until a home or store owner was away before breaking in to rob the place. In many death penalty states, committing murder while in commission of a felony, even if you didn't plan to do it, qualifies as a capital murder. So some won't risk that. To me, that's a deterrence. IMO if just one innocent life is spared... EVER... from executing cold blooded murderers, then it's worth it. As I said in an earlier post, I don't consider them human any longer, and certainly not entitled to the same rights as the rest of us -- and that would include the right to live.

Criminal Justice is something I've also had an interest in for about as long as you've been alive. ;) I briefly changed my college major to CJ back in the mid 80's. I've seen enough of the dregs of this society and their impact on innocent lives. I've seen hardened career criminals who LIKE to be in prison -- one of the leading causes of the high rates of recidivism. Many will commit another crime upon release and tell you they did it to get back in. You don't see too many though commit a capital crime because they want to die. A few might try "suicide by cop" but not many will say "lock me up for 20 years then fry me, okay?"