PM limit Discussion

i went green for lemaster25 but i can't send him a pm woth my paypal because it says there limiting emails for newbies for a few weeks. can someone help me with this. how can i contact him ? i added the paypam in my trade info and also made it show i went green. how can i contact him if i can't pm him?..any help please..thanks

I'll PM him if you want. I don't know if that's against the rules though.

Let's wait for a mod to catch wind of this before I do that haha, I don't need to go getting banned......... Again.............

This is just weird. Because i am new they limit the amount of pm's you do so then how do they expect people to stay in touch. being new i would think one would need to send a few extra pm's..lol.i just need to contact this guy so he can send me the money but i can't send the pm and he doesn't have an email listed. i posted on his thread too..anyone that can help would be great..thanks

that was a good idea. he'll see that as soon as he would see a pm, then he'll just pm you. no biggie. why didn't i think of that? I'm dum.

The PM restriction is a new change that was made to curb PM spam/scams from new members. It won't be "weeks" before you can PM though. The restriction is per 24-hour period until certain criteria are met. After that, the restriction will be lifted entirely. So you can PM only a few times per day until then.

[quote906cf43aba="dmorris68"]The PM restriction is a new change that was made to curb PM spam/scams from new members. It won't be "weeks" before you can PM though. The restriction is per 24-hour period until certain criteria are met. After that, the restriction will be lifted entirely. So you can PM only a few times per day until then.[/quote906cf43aba]

would i have broken a rule by doing that for him?

just curious so I know for the future D

My StickyMod account has this problem. lol

BTW I fixed the horribly worded error message, so it should be clearer now. I have no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that, but it was embarrassingly fugly... ?

Also, you can still send PM's to forum staff unrestricted. The restriction only applies to PM's sent to regular members.

[quote9dcf424223="TravMan162"][quote9dcf424223="dmorris68"]The PM restriction is a new change that was made to curb PM spam/scams from new members. It won't be "weeks" before you can PM though. The restriction is per 24-hour period until certain criteria are met. After that, the restriction will be lifted entirely. So you can PM only a few times per day until then.[/quote9dcf424223]

would i have broken a rule by doing that for him?

just curious so I know for the future D[/quote9dcf424223]

Under the circumstances we'll let it slide for urgent messages. But if folks get in the habit of doing an end-run around the restriction by getting other folks to proxy messages for them, especially if those messages are the type for which this restriction was put in place to stop, then folks will be dealt with. Harshly. ;)


[quote9dcf424223="J4320"]My StickyMod account has this problem. lol[/quote9dcf424223]
LOL, when I made the code change a couple weeks ago, I wasn't expecting a new mod account would be created, so I didn't bother excluding mods/admins from the restriction. I'll see about adding that now.

J4320, check the StickyMod account again, it should be able to PM unrestricted.

It's PM unrestricted now. Thanks David. ;)

Wow I had not read about this new rule or restriction. Maybe that is why some of my new traders are not contacting me. Hmmm

Is there a thread to read what the criteria is that needs to be met?
Just curious.

Thanks for always looking out for all of us. )

No, there hasn't been a formal announcement yet. We are being intentionally vague on what the requirements will be to lift the restriction, for the simple fact that determined scammers and spammers will no doubt take advantage of that knowledge to get around it.

All I can say at this point is that "new" members are restricted to 4 PM's per 24 hour period to non-staff members. The duration of this restriction is determined by several factors having to do with age of membership and certain forum activity. None of our regular, established members will be restricted themselves, but they may have to be patient with brand new members that take on a lot of trades.

I'm trying to help a newbie out and she's getting really frustrated because she's having problems and can't contact me easily after she's sent too many pm's.

I guess I'll give her my personal email address to get in contact with me.

I answered my own question..thanks anyways!! )

If they run out of PM's for the day and then use the appropriate trade thread as a means of communication regarding a trade, would that be considered "unnecessary bumping?"

And I'm not just being a jack ass that questions everything, I just want to know in case this happens D

Oooh. Great question!!! I should worry about that too, because she replied on my post which bumped it.

wow is what i say too. I was unaware of this. Now i know why Ive lost contact with some of my newbies. I guess i will need to use yahoo and aim more often and hope my newbies have it. And be more aware of how many pms they send and warn them. Thanks for bringing this post up.

I am one of those newbies on this forum who can't PM. I am too old and too tired to pussy foot around, so here goes. "The PM restriction is the most ridiculous thing I have ever encountered on a forum". This is a business - one I work at every day for many hours each day. Communication is a cornerstone of my business along with honesty and integrity.

The irony of this enactment is that communication helps an honest, experienced trader detect a scammer. Besides, a scammer who is any good at it will find a way to pull off a scam one way or another.

The cold, hard facts are this forum does not need me, and I do not need it. I am here because I heard good things and wanted to be here. It was my choice. Now the forum has a choice. Get rid of this ridiculous rule that violates freedom of speech and eliminates my most important tool or get rid of me.[/colora17885e4bf][/sizea17885e4bf]

[quotebfffc3ba94="freeb8ter"]I am one of those newbies on this forum who can't PM. I am too old and too tired to pussy foot around, so here goes. "The PM restriction is the most ridiculous thing I have ever encountered on a forum". This is a business - one I work at every day for many hours each day. Communication is a cornerstone of my business along with honesty and integrity.

The irony of this enactment is that communication helps an honest, experienced trader detect a scammer. Besides, a scammer who is any good at it will find a way to pull off a scam one way or another.

The cold, hard facts are this forum does not need me, and I do not need it. I am here because I heard good things and wanted to be here. It was my choice. Now the forum has a choice. Get rid of this ridiculous rule that violates freedom of speech and eliminates my most important tool or get rid of me.[/colorbfffc3ba94][/sizebfffc3ba94][/quotebfffc3ba94]

Thanks for the ultimatum, but the rule was put in place after extended discussion. You don't have to agree with all the rules, but you do have to abide by them. You are welcome to stay here and follow by the rules, or you are welcome to leave.

And by the way, freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you the right to use someone else's property to contact whoever you want, whenever you want, and how often you want.

We're not against changing the rules, but when you say "Either the rule goes, or I go!", you aren't going to get very far.

First of all, what you have initiated here is not a rule per se. I read the rules when I signed in here, and I read them again when it was nicely brought to my attention that I missed one. Nowhere does this PM restriction appear, and nowhere is it addressed in plain sight.

It is an arrogant and dogmatic enactment put forth in a clandestine manner. Sorry for tainting your private property. I did not realize that this was much more than a public forum since entering it and signing up for it did not indicate such an exclusive nature.

Good luck to all of you.[/colorb8546901fd][/sizeb8546901fd]

[quote309ffc1f69="freeb8ter"]I am one of those newbies on this forum who can't PM. I am too old and too tired to pussy foot around, so here goes. "The PM restriction is the most ridiculous thing I have ever encountered on a forum". This is a business - one I work at every day for many hours each day. Communication is a cornerstone of my business along with honesty and integrity.

The irony of this enactment is that communication helps an honest, experienced trader detect a scammer. Besides, a scammer who is any good at it will find a way to pull off a scam one way or another.

The cold, hard facts are this forum does not need me, and I do not need it. I am here because I heard good things and wanted to be here. It was my choice. Now the forum has a choice. Get rid of this ridiculous rule that violates freedom of speech and eliminates my most important tool or get rid of me.[/color309ffc1f69][/size309ffc1f69][/quote309ffc1f69]

one thing you should know about being here is that the mods are actually pretty nice guys and do a lot to help people that are having issues. However. Like CG said, this isn't the way to get help. They'll see this and completely brush you off. They don't like being pushed around, and with good reason. They run this site and despite being an internet forum, they are an authority and would like some respect.

But they are very helpful if you address them in a manner that is not demanding anything................ Just trying to help you out here, cuz believe me, losing a person with 0 TR is not going to ruin their weekend.

[quote267186e658="freeb8ter"]First of all, what you have initiated here is not a rule per se. I read the rules when I signed in here, and I read them again when it was nicely brought to my attention that I missed one. Nowhere does this PM restriction appear, and nowhere is it addressed in plain sight.

It is an arrogant and dogmatic enactment put forth in a clandestine manner. Sorry for tainting your private property. I did not realize that this was much more than a public forum since entering it and signing up for it did not indicate such an exclusive nature.

Good luck to all of you.[/color267186e658][/size267186e658][/quote267186e658]

It's a forum owned privately, opened to the public. You thought that your freedom of speech covered your right to do whatever you wanted with someone else's property. At the age of 58, I would have thought you would have known the Bill of Rights a little better, but I'm glad to clarify it for you.

We're always open to discussion on the rules if people think they're unfair, but we're not going to be bullied into changing them out of fear of one person leaving, so do whatever you want.

Wow. The dumb arguments about "freedom of speech" usually come from rebel teeny-boppers who never paid attention in class. I'm shocked that a 58 year old person would think that freedom of speech, or any other freedom in the Bill of Rights, applies to private venues.

Pardon the history/civics lesson, but the Constitution and the Bill of Rights guarantee freedoms to the people that the [ba2dadc3b0a]Government[/ba2dadc3b0a] cannot infringe. It does not dictate what a private organization can restrict, nor does it guarantee freedom from prosecution or civil liability when such speech violates the rights and safety of others, i.e. yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, libel, and slander.

You also apparently need a lesson on what a "rule" means, versus a forum feature. A rule implies that you are responsible for following it, and if you don't, you will be dealt with. That is far different than a feature of the forum put in place to restrict everybody -- you don't have the opportunity to "violate" the rule. It is a forum feature. You will find none of the forum features listed in the rules, because it would be quite silly to do so.

As CG said, we work pretty damn hard trying make this place fun and productive for all. Thanks to the large number of idiots continuously try to sabotage that effort, we're forced to continuously adjust rules AND forum functionality in an attempt to help the majority of our members. We don't appreciate your attitude, so as far as I'm concerned, you can take your silly ultimatums and your tin-foil-hat personality elsewhere. We don't need you here. roll

i will say that granted the rule does restrict my business some it also helps. I had a newby yesterday who i found out through a site was a scammer. after we established this thru the approval i told him that he was scamming and that i wouldnt work with him again. later i noticed he was still on the trading post leaving post all over the place trying to get another trade because he couldnt pm. well, just imagine how many people he could have continued to rip off if the rule wasnt in place. tho i dont agree with it , i understand it and am glad that the moderators are thinking ahead to prevent scammers from having such easy access to it.

[quote27ec66b132="dmorris68"]Wow. The dumb arguments about "freedom of speech" usually come from rebel teeny-boppers who never paid attention in class. I'm shocked that a 58 year old person would think that freedom of speech, or any other freedom in the Bill of Rights, applies to private venues.

Pardon the history/civics lesson, but the Constitution and the Bill of Rights guarantee freedoms to the people that the [b27ec66b132]Government[/b27ec66b132] cannot infringe. It does not dictate what a private organization can restrict, nor does it guarantee freedom from prosecution or civil liability when such speech violates the rights and safety of others, i.e. yelling "fire" in a crowded theater, libel, and slander.

You also apparently need a lesson on what a "rule" means, versus a forum feature. A rule implies that you are responsible for following it, and if you don't, you will be dealt with. That is far different than a feature of the forum put in place to restrict everybody -- you don't have the opportunity to "violate" the rule. It is a forum feature. You will find none of the forum features listed in the rules, because it would be quite silly to do so.

As CG said, we work pretty damn hard trying make this place fun and productive for all. Thanks to the large number of idiots continuously try to sabotage that effort, we're forced to continuously adjust rules AND forum functionality in an attempt to help the majority of our members. We don't appreciate your attitude, so as far as I'm concerned, you can take your silly ultimatums and your tin-foil-hat personality elsewhere. We don't need you here. roll[/quote27ec66b132]

That was the greatest rebuttal I've ever seen. + Karma for telling it like it is and making me smile with your tin foil hat point D

People don't seem to realize how much effort you guys put into keeping this place from falling apart. You somehow keep coming up with new ideas and guidelines to deal with problems that keep arising and the end result is always a stronger, more organized site.

And to be honest with you, if the features of the forum are driving people away, then that is a good thing for all of us. It's thinning out the numbers and making a more refined group of people that actually care about the site and want it to work as opposed to having a bunch of people that have tunnel vision on making a freebie fortune. To those people that can't understand, appreciate or accept the rules and features, we'll be seein' ya. I've been scammed myself a few times and it really really sucks.

I speak for the vast majority of the people on the site when I say thank you to the mods for looking after us and keeping things moving at a productive and efficient pace.

amen

I fully understand why this restriction has been put into place. I've been around here for less than a month, and probably received scam/spam PMs several times lithe first day alone!!li

That being said, it's really frustrating to not be able to communicate with your trades to update, etc.

It was pointed out that the way to lift the restriction is being intentionally left vague... so how are we to know what we need to do to be seen as honest members? I tend to be a lurker, not a poster... so if y'all want to see 30 posts by me before lifting the restriction... it's probably not going to happen. But, as I said, I've been around for less than a month and my TR is already 12. Shouldn't that say it all??

Robin

[quotee34407a1b4="rampant5"]I tend to be a lurker, not a poster... so if y'all want to see 30 posts by me before lifting the restriction... it's probably not going to happen.[/quotee34407a1b4]

You should spend a bit of the time in the forums interacting with other members. I know a lot of people place a degree of value in your participation in the forums to validate your efforts as a distinguished member.

I used to say the same thing, but now I actually enjoy taking part in the forum conversations. Sure, they'll poke fun at you every now and again, but I think it's an important part of distinguishing yourself on the site. Try it out, I guarantee you'll find something you'd like to talk about in Off-Topic or something D

I always thought there was a restriction, but you could still respond to somebody who has already PM'ed you. Seems like it would be a good idea, rather dumb to spam someone that your responding to.

I'm of the opinion that this forum doesn't need people who use massive fonts (I'm sure FLR will welcome you with open arms, a PPD mentor t-shirt, and sparkly .gifsurl==http://=http:///url) but then again I'm opinionated, bitchy, and often wrong.

[quote61726cedb3="rampant5"]It was pointed out that the way to lift the restriction is being intentionally left vague... so how are we to know what we need to do to be seen as honest members? I tend to be a lurker, not a poster... so if y'all want to see 30 posts by me before lifting the restriction... it's probably not going to happen. But, as I said, I've been around for less than a month and my TR is already 12. Shouldn't that say it all??[/quote61726cedb3]

Let me be clear in case I wasn't before this is an automatic restriction placed on all members that fall below the restriction threshold. It will also lift automatically, by itself, without any activity on your part. Exactly when I won't say. I will say that the duration will vary based upon other criteria, as I mentioned your activity on the forum can have an impact and possibly shorten the duration.

TR itself is not necessarily a good indicator of a person's intentions. We've had several shady members accumulate some TR before we caught on to their antics (illicit referral brokers being a good example).

Speaking of which, as TravMan said, if you have TR but no forum participation, then you will still be suspect to a lot of people. That's just how it is -- human beings are social animals, and when somebody lurks but never joins in discussions or otherwise contributes to the forum, it's harder to trust them. Personally, TR carries less weight with me than the personality you convey on the forum, and without any posts there is no way to judge you in that way. Seeing as we don't see each other face-to-face, our online persona is all we have to go by.

This is probably a more social forum than others I participate in.

In most other forums I've been on, the feedback rating, in whatever form it takes, is usually the most used determinant of how trustworthy a person is. What is the point of having TR and karma if they don't even carry any weight? In my opinion, feedback that is documented, enumerated, and posted for all the world to see is far more important than how many posts a person has made. Call me analytical, I guess.

I don't agree with the measure of online personality, either. A person could portray themselves in an extremely positive light, all the while running a scam. Or, they could lurk, posting only in selective circumstances, and be an extremely trustworthy trader. Who's to say? If people don't want to trade with me because I don't post very often, then that's their choice!

I'm not here to cause trouble, I just thought this was the right thread to voice a frustration. This PM ban has caused a lot of tension, I think, on the part of us newbies just trying to get our trades done! Isn't there some way we could, at the very least, communicate openly with the people we have open trades with?? shrug

[quotec0ceeb9241="rampant5"]This is probably a more social forum than others I participate in.

In most other forums I've been on, the feedback rating, in whatever form it takes, is usually the most used determinant of how trustworthy a person is. What is the point of having TR and karma if they don't even carry any weight? In my opinion, feedback that is documented, enumerated, and posted for all the world to see is far more important than how many posts a person has made. Call me analytical, I guess.

I don't agree with the measure of online personality, either. A person could portray themselves in an extremely positive light, all the while running a scam. Or, they could lurk, posting only in selective circumstances, and be an extremely trustworthy trader. Who's to say? If people don't want to trade with me because I don't post very often, then that's their choice!

I'm not here to cause trouble, I just though this was the right thread to voice a frustration. This PM ban has caused a lot of tension, I think, on the part of us newbies just trying to get our trades done! Isn't there some way we could, at the very least, communicate openly with the people we have open trades with??[/quotec0ceeb9241]

I personally think all three should be taken into account. I mean, I don't think they should be a definitive judge of someone's overall or complete character, but i think they should all be considered. It's hard for a newbie to start off, but that might be a good thing considering the amount of scammers and people that don't really give a shit that flood the joint all the time. This site gives you three ways to improve your "character" --for lack of better terms I guess-- TR, Post Count and Karma. They all work together to show how actively you participate and communicate with other traders, how many successful trading experiences you've had and how many people you've helped.

I wasn't trying to say that it should be mandatory that you post a lot, I was just offering a suggestion. You said you wanted to get past one of the features of the site, and i just told you a way that may help you get there more quickly. But all in all, I think when those three measuring tools are taken into consideration, you can form a pretty good opinion about a person's motives on the site D

Yes, all of those things (TR, activity, length of membership, karma) carry some weight, otherwise as you said there would be no point in keeping up with them. My point is that none of those characteristics, taken individually, tell you a whole lot about a person. You need to look at all of it.

We've had people with high TR scam and run, or spam. We've had referral brokers who made a lot of money and TR before their offers starting going red and people caught on to them, buy by then it was too late.

I said "personally" when I mentioned that your TR alone doesn't carry much weight with me. Others will certainly feel differently. But I've been around here long enough to see a lot of scammers. Most of you, until you've been scammed, are pretty much oblivious to it. When you do get scammed, your focus is on that person. The staff, however, are privy to a lot of different people scamming and getting scammed, because we are the ones called in to try to help. We do a lot of backtracking and research, we learn to spot patterns that most of you aren't aware of, and it's very very difficult to make an accurate judgment about a persons' character in a virtual community, without something to judge them by. A single number doesn't do it for me, because I've seen it give false credibility to people before. I have to have a larger picture of someone before I can asses their character with any confidence.

Look, I see what you are saying, and like I said... this must be a more social forum than I'm used to and maybe I'll just have to adapt.

What is the most frustrating about the ban is that it's new. I had no trouble sending PMs before yesterday.

If, when I signed up, the rules said something to the effect of, all newbies are on probation to weed out scammers and you will only be allowed 4 PMs per 24 hours for such and such a time, that would be one thing.

But, I feel like something has been taken away, like I'm being punished for no reason. And it's an open-ended sentence! At an unspecified point in time, for unspecified reasons, the ban will be lifted?

Are there really that many scammers out there that all newbies must be punished?

Look, you can consider it punishment if you want to, but that is not the intention. It's an inconvenience. A constraint, yes. A constraint put in place to stem the tide of PM scammers and spammers.

As I said before, we don't put forum features in the rules. That's just dumb.

Yes, there have been a significant number of scammers and spammers. Otherwise if we didn't consider it a big deal, why would the staff waste our time discussing it at length, and why would I waste my time coding for it?

And yes, as a matter of fact, everyone pays for the sins of a few. That's called life, and you will run up against that concept for the rest of yours. I don't know how old you are, but to even ask that question implies a high level of naivety, much like the person who thought freedom of speech extended to here. This world is full of laws and restrictions and inconveniences against honest folks that came about because of the inconsiderate and stupid people in the world.

[quotee00c603e3c="dmorris68"]And yes, as a matter of fact, everyone pays for the sins of a few. That's called life, and you will run up against that concept for the rest of yours. I don't know how old you are, but to even ask that question implies a high level of naivety, much like the person who thought freedom of speech extended to here. This world is full of laws and restrictions and inconveniences against honest folks that came about because of the inconsiderate and stupid people in the world.[/quotee00c603e3c]


But the neat thing is, it's not like you are making it impossible for newbies to earn some clout. With some motivation and determination, anyone can come in here and do what people like Margot, Puppeteer and Sandy Habina have done. The features are great and make it so that you have to want to be here instead of just being able to be here. That's how you weed out the scammers. Granted, it's not foolproof, but it sure will help.

The people that get through this are the people you are going to want to trade with (or at least I would want to trade with). The people who come here not knowing anything and insist on paying you for greens off the git-go are the ones you don't want to trade with. Honestly, at this point I would definitely trade with rampant, based on how personally she is taking this and how much she wants to succeed. Granted, I think she may be going about this the wrong way by bickering with DMorris, but still, I think once she gets past this part of it, she's going to be an asset to the site........................................

My whole point was that this "barrier" forces people to sort of earn their way into the site, and at this point, it seems kind of necessary. Yes, you are probably a good honest trader, and that is why they designed this system. Because now you are identified as such and you are not lost in a sea of newbies.

Believe me, once you've been around here for a few months, you are going to appreciate this. The mods have everyone's best interest in mind, just let them do their thing and don't hassle them. They know what they're doing. I learned that the hard way too, but now I've learned to appreciate them because they really go above and beyond what is necessary to make this place function. Wait it out, you'll get there D D D

[quote3a97058a6f]As I said before, we don't put forum features in the rules. That's just dumb.[/quote3a97058a6f]

But there is nowhere that describes the "feature." That's dumb.

[quote3a97058a6f] I don't know how old you are, but to even ask that question implies a high level of naivety, much like the person who thought freedom of speech extended to here. [/quote3a97058a6f]

And that's why I don't post much. We were having a civil discussion on the pros and cons of the "feature." Why the insult? Are you afraid someone else may have a valid opposing point?

I said before, I'm not here to cause trouble. This is a discussion forum, right? So, now I can't discuss unless I agree? I give up.

[quote5089927ca8="rampant5"][quote5089927ca8]As I said before, we don't put forum features in the rules. That's just dumb.[/quote5089927ca8]

But there is nowhere that describes the "feature." That's dumb.
[/quote5089927ca8]

Actually, when the user encounters the feature, a message is displayed. That's a very sound approach in software development. Document within the software where you can, instead of relying on external documentation.

And it's not an unspecified "sentence" that gets randomly lifted. It's a restriction put in place that is automatically lifted when certain criteria are met. The algorithm isn't made public, because people would abuse it to get around the restriction.

rampant5, nobody said you were causing trouble. Nobody said you couldn't post, nor express your opinion. I just gave you one back. If you're going to give them, you need to be able to take them. Ideally nobody should be subject to abuse for their opinion, but posting anywhere on the internet requires some degree of thick skin nonetheless. If I were actually an asshole, and angry with you for daring to speak against my opinion, I would have locked this thread or (gasp) banned you. That didn't happen, so you should calm down.

I'm normally one of the nicest guys you'd ever run across, whether here or in real life. I just have a low tolerance for some things, and this topic has tickled a few of those. I apologize if you took my comment as an insult. In hindsight I can understand why, and I regret wording it that way. The fact remains, however, that some of you have blinders on, and really have no concept of the way things work in the big picture.

For example, my frustration level just goes through the roof when people don't seem to comprehend what it takes to operate a forum of this size, and yet are full of criticism about what we're doing "wrong." We have over 33,000 registered users, more than a third of which have been active to some degree or other within just the past year. There is a HUGE amount of traffic here, and it's a ripe setting for scammers and other ne'er-do-wells that want to take advantage of others. Now, taking all of that into account, think about this there are exactly FIVE of us who actively administer this forum. And ONE that actively writes code for the forum to help close holes and reduce the chances that YOU will be taken advantage of in any way. You can't please 30K people, nor can you please 10K. Or hell, even 10 for that matter. We act in what we believe to be the best interest of the forum membership as a whole. Others in this post, thankfully, seem to appreciate that, even if it might be an inconvenience. Others don't. Oh well, they can get over it or move along to another forum. That's not directed at you personally, rampant5, unless you happen to actually deserve it. ;)

Perhaps then you can understand MY sensitivity to seeing the staff constantly nagged and critiqued about things we're trying to do for your own good and the good of the forum. You should all know that if it weren't for this staff, Admin would have closed up shop here a long time ago, and there would be no more FiPG. If we decide one day to say "screw it, we've had enough," then you'd all have one less freebie forum to hang out and complain about.

Actually, when the user encounters the feature, a message is displayed. That's a very sound approach in software development. Document within the software where you can, instead of relying on external documentation.

Spoken like a true coder, to be sure. Too bad 99% of us don't have CS degrees. I'm afraid us mere mortals can't pick up CS theory by osmosis alone. We require instructions. How is one to learn to utilize the "features" of a site to their fullest extent if one is only expected to muddle through without direction?

The point is, it's TOO LATE when you encounter the message that you're blocked! You need to send a message, and you can't. There's no prior warning. That's wrong in my opinion!

[quote15ca200848="rampant5"]Actually, when the user encounters the feature, a message is displayed. That's a very sound approach in software development. Document within the software where you can, instead of relying on external documentation.[/quote15ca200848]

[quote15ca200848="rampant5"]Spoken like a true coder, to be sure. Too bad 99% of us don't have CS degrees. I'm afraid us mere mortals can't pick up CS theory by osmosis alone. We require instructions. How is one to learn to utilize the "features" of a site to their fullest extent if one is only expected to muddle through without direction?

The point is, it's TOO LATE when you encounter the message that you're blocked! You need to send a message, and you can't. There's no prior warning. That's wrong in my opinion![/quote15ca200848]

osmosis is the diffusion of water through a membrane.

I'm not a coder, so maybe I can explain in this in terms that are more easily comprehendable. This particular feature can not be detailed for all to see because then the very purpose of the feature is null and therefore is not a "feature" anymore. This feature weeds out scammers and in order to work, no one can know how it works.

Get It?

[quote8d7681c907]osmosis is the diffusion of water through a membrane.[/quote8d7681c907]

Oy vey! It's an expression! lol

[quote8d7681c907]I'm not a coder, so maybe I can explain in this in terms that are more easily comprehendable. This particular feature can not be detailed for all to see because then the very purpose of the feature is null and therefore is not a "feature" anymore. This feature weeds out scammers and in order to work, no one can know how it works.

Get It?[/quote8d7681c907]

Yes, I understand that. I have understood that this whole time. It's been explained that there is an algorithm in place that they don't want to make public. Fine. I get it. What I don't understand is how warning traders to use their few PMs wisely would countermand that at all!

[quote3fe1a4fe72="dmorris68"]I'm normally one of the nicest guys you'd ever run across, whether here or in real life. I just have a low tolerance for some things, and this topic has tickled a few of those. I apologize if you took my comment as an insult. In hindsight I can understand why, and I regret wording it that way. [/quote3fe1a4fe72]

Thanks. I appreciate that. I'd have PM'd you this, but I think I used 'em all already. wink

I do appreciate that you guys are trying to do what you think is best, and the task must be monumental. I just think that sometimes hearing things from the other side can help, too.

well now they know.

horse

Wait, I'm still somewhat confused on this after reading the two pages of back-and-forth.

The PM limit, is it only opposed onto new users that signed up after you implemented the feature?

I would just like to know if I would be effected. my TR is low, but I signed up for this site over 3 months ago before this PM rule was in place. Are my PMs limited now?(I haven't tried sending more than 4 so I don't really know.)

I think that maybe PMs with people you have a confirmed trade with should have no limit, or at least maybe a higher limit. I'm not sure how that could be abused.

I have to say - this new rule is impeding my ability to communicate with my new traders - I always want them to ask questions and we send PMs back and forth. This is how I send them information and if they have questions - they reply. It is causing some problems. I understand partly why - but I know I am not the only trader who is being affected by this. Many new traders are posting on trading post threads because they can not PM questions now.

You guys are always looking out for the best updates and features for all traders here on FIPG and that is greatly appreciated. Honestly - I do not know how you keep up with everything. I know I would be lost without you.

Not sure 4 is enough for 24 hours. Just my opinion.
Maybe a revision or something ????? Or possibly if someone already has a working trade - I guess the best thing would probably be - just use yahoo messenger or AIM then. I guess I answered myself.

Well this was just a statement anyway. LOL

I am going to edit my post - let them know to messenger me.

Thanks guy for all your help and willingness to listen. wink

[quote944c336fc9="Matt_2040"]I would just like to know if I would be effected. my TR is low, but I signed up for this site over 3 months ago before this PM rule was in place. Are my PMs limited now?(I haven't tried sending more than 4 so I don't really know.)[/quote944c336fc9]

No, you should not be affected. If for some reason you find that you are, PM me (PM's to forum staff are never restricted).

[quote944c336fc9="sandra habina"]Not sure 4 is enough for 24 hours. Just my opinion. Maybe a revision or something ????? Or possibly if someone already has a working trade - I guess the best thing would probably be - just use yahoo messenger or AIM then. I guess I answered myself.
...
Thanks guy for all your help and willingness to listen. wink[/quote944c336fc9]
We're always willing to listen, and we're doing so now. There's just a right way and a wrong way to go about providing feedback, and I for one tend to bristle when people don't consider that. ;)

We're considering increasing the limit from 4 per 24 hours. However if we increase it too much, then it defeats the purpose entirely. So if we do decide to increase it, I wouldn't expect it to be more than double, if that. Newbies are going to have to learn to conserve their messages. I am looking at providing a warning message on the PM page to remind people affected by the restriction that they are limited in their PM ability.

As far as restricting sometimes and not others (such as when PM'ing those you have an active trade with), that is just too much complexity to add to an already creaky forum codebase, not to mention the time and testing it would take to do. I'm trying to work on some major upgrades to the forum, and that is taking most of my FiPG coding time now -- I'm not willing to sink many hours into coding something that will likely have to be tossed out and redone in the near future.

That said, I am willing to refine our current procedures within reason, assuming the entire staff agrees upon it. Understand that I seldom if ever make decisions about forum operation in a vacuum -- such things are always discussed and debated among the staff, and I code to what we agree upon.

"I am looking at providing a warning message on the PM page to remind people affected by the restriction that they are limited in their PM ability. " dmorris68

[b8170273362]Oh, I think that is a great idea dmorris. Yes that would help them to know and conserve on their PM messages. [/b8170273362]

I thought it was going to be kind of difficult to distinguish between users in a trade already or not. That is a bit far fetched. There is just too many traders and that would require too much. I can see that now. You have to know I am so computer illiterate and could not possibly understand all the codes and work that would involve. Sorry - I even brought that up, but these computers and forums are so amazing to me. I am learning more and more all the time. It is just unbelievable - what we can do. {This is coming from a lady who learned to type on a manual typewriter) and computers were not even in the picture. LOL

I think that PM message warning would be great help. Thanks again

cheer cheer

[quoted774f21df4="dmorris68"][quoted774f21df4="Matt_2040"]I would just like to know if I would be effected. my TR is low, but I signed up for this site over 3 months ago before this PM rule was in place. Are my PMs limited now?(I haven't tried sending more than 4 so I don't really know.)[/quoted774f21df4]

No, you should not be affected. If for some reason you find that you are, PM me (PM's to forum staff are never restricted).

[quoted774f21df4="sandra habina"]Not sure 4 is enough for 24 hours. Just my opinion. Maybe a revision or something ????? Or possibly if someone already has a working trade - I guess the best thing would probably be - just use yahoo messenger or AIM then. I guess I answered myself.
...
Thanks guy for all your help and willingness to listen. wink[/quoted774f21df4]
We're always willing to listen, and we're doing so now. There's just a right way and a wrong way to go about providing feedback, and I for one tend to bristle when people don't consider that. ;)

We're considering increasing the limit from 4 per 24 hours. However if we increase it too much, then it defeats the purpose entirely. So if we do decide to increase it, I wouldn't expect it to be more than double, if that. Newbies are going to have to learn to conserve their messages. I am looking at providing a warning message on the PM page to remind people affected by the restriction that they are limited in their PM ability.

As far as restricting sometimes and not others (such as when PM'ing those you have an active trade with), that is just too much complexity to add to an already creaky forum codebase, not to mention the time and testing it would take to do. I'm trying to work on some major upgrades to the forum, and that is taking most of my FiPG coding time now -- I'm not willing to sink many hours into coding something that will likely have to be tossed out and redone in the near future.

That said, I am willing to refine our current procedures within reason, assuming the entire staff agrees upon it. Understand that I seldom if ever make decisions about forum operation in a vacuum -- such things are always discussed and debated among the staff, and I code to what we agree upon.[/quoted774f21df4]

ok thanks. yeah I kind of figured a PM with active trades feature would be hard to implement. thanks for all your hard work and listening though

Hi, all. I'm a newbie to the forum but not to trading. I came from another forum where I couldn't handle the butt kissing any more, and I also have heard some awesome things about this site from site owners themselves. I've read these last two pages, and one question is still unanswered. How long is the restriction for? And is it alright to put my email addy in my trade thread?

[quoteabc4ec4e2b="jness80537"]Hi, all. I'm a newbie to the forum but not to trading. I came from another forum where I couldn't handle the butt kissing any more, and I also have heard some awesome things about this site from site owners themselves. I've read these last two pages, and one question is still unanswered. How long is the restriction for? And is it alright to put my email addy in my trade thread?[/quoteabc4ec4e2b]
The restriction period is variable, up to a fixed duration, and can be impacted by several criteria. As mentioned earlier in this topic, we aren't disclosing more specifics because it could lead to circumvention attempts.

Posting your e-mail is allowed, but honestly not advised -- you'll be exposing it to spammers and spiders. At the very least I'd create a separate e-mail address for it.

Okay, a warning message now appears on the PM page for those who are restricted. You can't miss it, it's blinding. )

Here's a screenshot of both the message and the error message you get if you ignore it and try to send too many PMs

http//www.morrisonline.us/pics/pm_notice1.png[" alt=""/imgdd5510504e]

[quote097b29323d="dmorris68"]rampant5, nobody said you were causing trouble. Nobody said you couldn't post, nor express your opinion. I just gave you one back. If you're going to give them, you need to be able to take them. Ideally nobody should be subject to abuse for their opinion, but posting anywhere on the internet requires some degree of thick skin nonetheless. If I were actually an asshole, and angry with you for daring to speak against my opinion, I would have locked this thread or (gasp) banned you. That didn't happen, so you should calm down.

I'm normally one of the nicest guys you'd ever run across, whether here or in real life. I just have a low tolerance for some things, and this topic has tickled a few of those. I apologize if you took my comment as an insult. In hindsight I can understand why, and I regret wording it that way. The fact remains, however, that some of you have blinders on, and really have no concept of the way things work in the big picture.

For example, my frustration level just goes through the roof when people don't seem to comprehend what it takes to operate a forum of this size, and yet are full of criticism about what we're doing "wrong." We have over 33,000 registered users, more than a third of which have been active to some degree or other within just the past year. There is a HUGE amount of traffic here, and it's a ripe setting for scammers and other ne'er-do-wells that want to take advantage of others. Now, taking all of that into account, think about this there are exactly FIVE of us who actively administer this forum. And ONE that actively writes code for the forum to help close holes and reduce the chances that YOU will be taken advantage of in any way. [b097b29323d]You can't please 30K people, nor can you please 10K. Or hell, even 10 for that matter.[/b097b29323d] We act in what we believe to be the best interest of the forum membership as a whole. Others in this post, thankfully, seem to appreciate that, even if it might be an inconvenience. Others don't. Oh well, they can get over it or move along to another forum. That's not directed at you personally, rampant5, unless you happen to actually deserve it. ;)

Perhaps then you can understand MY sensitivity to seeing the staff constantly nagged and critiqued about things we're trying to do for your own good and the good of the forum. You should all know that if it weren't for this staff, Admin would have closed up shop here a long time ago, and there would be no more FiPG. If we decide one day to say "screw it, we've had enough," then you'd all have one less freebie forum to hang out and complain about.[/quote097b29323d]

Awesome post, D. And BTW, you can please me anytime.

After some staff discussion, we've also decided to increase the restricted PM limit from [b3202594eab]4[/b3202594eab] to [b3202594eab]8[/b3202594eab] per 24 hours.

[quote3202594eab="JennyWren"]Awesome post, D. And BTW, you can please me anytime.[/quote3202594eab]
/touches self

[quote78f74a10f4="dmorris68"][quote78f74a10f4="JennyWren"]Awesome post, D. And BTW, you can please me anytime.[/quote78f74a10f4]
/touches self[/quote78f74a10f4]


shock shock shock

And the real DMorris comes out.

..........Errr..... I meant your personality. oops oops oops

P P P

god bless the mods and the awesome work that they do..all unseen by us..if we saw we would know how much it takes to keep this forum running as smooth as it does!!! thank you all amen!!

First post here (Yay me LOL)

As a newbie here but having admined several gaming forums I understand what you guys go through. So just keeping doing what you think is right for here.

Now my complaint is my PM's were cut off at 5 not the 8 on the notice. I'm currently working with Sandra on several trades and she's been sending me PM's with tips and help but I can't respond to her unless I happen to catch her on AIM or MSN.

And in advance I don't post alot on forums until I learn enough to know what I'm talking about, so it may be awhile before my PMs get unlocked. wink

I've not heard any other complaints of being limited to 5 PM's rather than 8. The original limit was 4, and I bumped it to 8 weeks ago, so I'm not sure what's wrong with your PM's being cut off at 5. Seems like an odd number -- if it were 4 I'd think we had an accidental code reversion. I'll see if I can reproduce it.

As mentioned earlier, posting a lot is not a requirement for the restriction being lifted, but it can accelerate the process. Note that we encourage posting and forum participation, but not spamming useless posts for the purpose of inflating post count. Those types of things will be dealt with by more than PM restrictions. ;)

I edited the title

I have been restricted after only sending out 4 messages. What's up?

[quote8b45da590c="bez420"]I have been restricted after only sending out 4 messages. What's up?[/quote8b45da590c]
Replied to your PM. You've sent 8 messages in the past 24 hours.

As a reminder to all, this restriction is per [b8b45da590c]24 hours[/b8b45da590c] and not per calendar day.

Does anyone know how long we are considered newbies? I'm wondering how long I'll have to limit my PM sending.

Oops one more ?. Hopefully someone who's been through this can tell me. How do you know when your off restriction?

[quote11b41eecab="bez420"]Oops one more ?. Hopefully someone who's been through this can tell me. How do you know when your off restriction?[/quote11b41eecab]
As the notice says, you will no longer see the big glaring notice when you go to send a PM.