Pre paid CCís Fraud or not fraud ?

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=64806

amartin99

18-06-2007 15:04:45

I was just reading a post where someone said there are
Then someone said there not
Then it went into long unrelated argument
As far as im concerned the question was never sedeld
And since it was a bit off topic to begin with I thought id make a new thread instead of trying to drag them back to what im interested in

So back to Using pre paid Credit Cards to complete offers
I had a guy ask me to give him $7 which he added to $3 in his PayPal and used to buy a pre paid CC
He then used that to go green for me
This was his idea not mine
Though I thought it sounded like a good one
I did mention to the company he went green for me at
And got no complains
But I wasnít specifically asking about it

I myself donít see anything wrong with it
The only way a company will lose form a person using a Pre Paid card
Is if they do not intend to honor a cancelation request
If the guy using one intends to keep the account open he will keep the card loaded to cover it
If he wants to cancel it then what difference does it make what kind of card he has ?

kidd2108

18-06-2007 15:09:25

[quote9a44ac2e1c]I had a guy ask me to give him $7 which he added to $3 in his PayPal and used to buy a pre paid CC
He then used that to go green for me
This was his idea not mine [/quote9a44ac2e1c]

Who was it? wink

amartin99

18-06-2007 15:13:54

he isn't part of this forum
I was doing some addvertising

skepticalcynic

18-06-2007 16:15:31

First - [ubaa2aa69e1]WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT CANCELLATION - IF A PERSON DOES AN OFFER INTENDING TO CANCEL IT, THAT IS OFFER FRAUD[/ubaa2aa69e1] - I have no idea how many times that has been clearly stated, but there it is again.

The reason pre-paid cards are not accepted as a general rule is because they are not verifiable. There is no way to verify identification or address. It is soooooo easy to give false information when using a pre-paid card because there is no way to verify it. There are some banks which offer debit cards that can be registered to a person's name, address, and social security number. From what I understand, those are fine to use.

[bbaa2aa69e1]But please remember, if a user you have referred tells you outright, before he even does an offer, that he will be cancelling that offer when he gets credit for it, it is offer fraud and if you allow him to do that, you are guilty too.[/bbaa2aa69e1]

dmorris68

18-06-2007 16:28:07

Affiliate networks and offer sponsors are banning the use of prepaids because they are abused. People get a prepaid with just enough money to complete offers, and almost never enough for recurring payments. So instead of diligently trying offers they are interested in, keeping some, and then going through the effort of properly canceling the others (which we don't discuss here) when reasonable to do so, they just let the recurring charge decline against an empty prepaid. It takes the "hassle" if you will out of the process, and it fails to show good faith in trying products.

It doesn't matter if they're reloadable or not -- face it, virtually everybody using them for this purpose are NOT going to keep extra their extra money tied up on them to support recurring charges.

While there may be very few folks using them legitimately, the level of fraud is extreme and undeniable, so they can't be blamed for banning the use of prepaids.

amartin99

18-06-2007 16:40:37

Wow heated subject
Ok firstly I was not referring to someoneís (((((plan))))) to Cancel
I was just saying that the main reason for Prepaid cards is to prevent someone from gaining access to (thousands of $ available one a normal card)
And if someone rejects a prepaid card that would mean to me that he/she is hoping to rip people off
Whether it be by making unexpected charges (cinda an afterthought because there to easy to dispute)
Or making it hard to cancel

Point of fact
A week ago yesterday I did an offer that had a little check box added to it (which I didnít notes till after hitting submit)
It added an order for a second site to mine
And this was not related to the offer I had just completed
I then tried to call the second (unexpected0 orderís siteís phone number to cancle the mistaken order
But the number just had an answering message saying no phone box egisists
I then tried going to itís site and found no more phone numbers to call
Im hoping it was just an old side offer that no longer egisists and I wonít be charged
But I think I just got hit with a $39 monthly charge and no way to contact them

Im not saying people should cancel there subscriptions
Im saying that rip-offs like this are why prepaid CC egsist
Though I donít have one

Anyway about your point of confirming peoples IDís and addresses
The card this guy got took nearly 2 weeks to arrive at his house before he could use it
And even then he had to activate it
I expect it has his real name and address connected to it
Itís meant for him to use in person as a normal CC
I think it likely has all the same tracking info as a normal CC
But I have no way of knowing for sure

[b6587eb7c0b]Someone elce posted while I was riting the above
So rather then doble post I thought id just edit this one[/b6587eb7c0b][/color6587eb7c0b][/size6587eb7c0b]

Anyway much as I wish there werenít
there are some good points coming from you 2

I was really liking this pre paid CC idea
90% of the response im getting from my advertising
Is people saying they donít have a CC

skepticalcynic

18-06-2007 16:55:52

I have only been unexpectedly charged once by an affiliate company - and it turned out to be my error. The affiliates would not be able to stay in business if they were scamming people.

But the best cards to use are real credit cards from reputable banks/finance companies. The reason is simple - they protect you from fraud both from unauthorized charges and from identity theft. As long as you [i17791d9034]keep track of every single bit of information regarding the transaction[/i17791d9034], they will be happy to take care of it for you.

aviendha47

18-06-2007 16:59:43

How about the paypal debit since it's tied to backup funds?

amartin99

18-06-2007 17:03:38

I can't get a Paypal debit
not availible in canada
much like 90$ of the offers wine wine wine

(((((((((((updated)))))))))))

there is a banner for a prepaid CC at the top of this page
hehehehe

dmorris68

18-06-2007 19:32:21

[quote75177b0505="amartin99"]there is a banner for a prepaid CC at the top of this page
hehehehe[/quote75177b0505]
The advertisement is not "for" a prepaid. It's an Obopay promotion where they give you a $10 prepaid as a gift for signing up for an account. So it's not like we're promoting prepaids, we're just advertising Obopay.

gator1002

18-06-2007 20:08:06

I use a credit card that has my name and address asosiated with it. Its also a pre paid. For all intent a purposes its a regular credit card. Anyone wanting to get this same card pm me. I dont feel this is the place for me to give the info. (Fred)

dmorris68

18-06-2007 20:17:06

[quotebf129b90ae="gator1002"]I use a credit card that has my name and address asosiated with it. Its also a pre paid. For all intent a purposes its a regular credit card. Anyone wanting to get this same card pm me. I dont feel this is the place for me to give the info. (Fred)[/quotebf129b90ae]
Then it's not a credit card, it's a prepaid. It can't be both.

Regardless of whether it has your name & address associated, it does not have a line of credit, bank account, or other reliable source of funds behind it. It instead relies upon you depositing or transferring money to it, making it no different than other prepaid in that regard, and its use would be considered fraud by those freebie sites, affiliates, and offer sponsors who now forbid their use.

[quotebf129b90ae="aviendha47"]How about the paypal debit since it's tied to backup funds?[/quotebf129b90ae]
That would be considered a debit card and not a prepaid, however a few offer sponsors also prohibit debit cards, although not as many as prohibit (or are planning to prohibit) prepaids. Check their terms to be sure.

cubbieco

18-06-2007 22:40:23

[quote9b80d17a2b="gator1002"]I use a credit card that has my name and address asosiated with it. Its also a pre paid. For all intent a purposes its a regular credit card. Anyone wanting to get this same card pm me. I dont feel this is the place for me to give the info. (Fred)[/quote9b80d17a2b]

I think he might be talking about a type of credit card where you make a deposit and your credit limit is the amount of the deposit. It is actually a real credit card with the fraud protection, monthly bills, appears on your credit report, etc. It's just if you skip out on the payments the bank will seize the deposit and not be out anything.

If you use a prepaid debit and you real address (note ALWAYS use your real address) then the fact that the debit denies the unwanted recurring expense will not protect you anyway. Companies can and will come after you for the money you owe them for not canceling your unwanted subscription.

Credit card is by far the safest. Banks have been protecting people against fraud for years. Laws protect credit cards. Prepaid debits and other debit cards won't necessarily have any fraud protection so money you lose due to fraud is just lost. Credit cards will always represent you in the case of true fraud.

amartin99

19-06-2007 04:14:41

[quotec683ae1134="dmorris68"]The advertisement is not "for" a prepaid. It's an Obopay promotion[/quotec683ae1134]
now that you point it out it dose say Free in frount of it
which would imply it's a gift card
should have realised that (guess my mind was stuck on the subject at hand)

anyway
much as I love the prepaid CC idea
I am bothered by some of the points people have brot up
so my apinyon is cinda in limbo at the moment
makes me glad I have (& have been using) a normall card

cubbieco

19-06-2007 11:03:41

Yeah I try to post in favor of credit cards every time I see one of these posts. By law the most you can be responsible for in case of fraud on a credit card is $100 and many cards do less than that nowadays. Debits and prepaids don't have the same legal protection although banks may offer protection anyway. They don't have to though.

dmorris68

19-06-2007 11:29:51

[quotefa80cae778="cubbieco"][quotefa80cae778="gator1002"]I use a credit card that has my name and address asosiated with it. Its also a pre paid. For all intent a purposes its a regular credit card. Anyone wanting to get this same card pm me. I dont feel this is the place for me to give the info. (Fred)[/quotefa80cae778]

I think he might be talking about a type of credit card where you make a deposit and your credit limit is the amount of the deposit. It is actually a real credit card with the fraud protection, monthly bills, appears on your credit report, etc. It's just if you skip out on the payments the bank will seize the deposit and not be out anything.[/quotefa80cae778]
Yeah, that's called a secured credit card, but from his description that's not what it sounded like. If it is, then yeah, that's a valid CC for the purposes of offer completions. Keep in mind that most banks that offer secured CC's require some pretty hefty fees up front to establish the account. I've seen them as high as $200-$300 range. They're targeted at folks who have no credit or bad credit and can't get a regular CC, since a secured CC will report to a credit bureau and help establish or re-establish credit.

gator1002

19-06-2007 13:04:24

No not a secured card. I guess I have to use my real credit cards from now on. At least I do very few offers now.

amartin99

19-06-2007 13:41:56

2-300 hmmmm
when I was 17 I tried getting a (secured credit card) at the locall bank
they told me I had to deposit $1000
I was making about $50 a day
and well I just never did get that much saved up
to manny other things I could do with it
even now something allways comes up
I find saving $ to be nearly imposible

dmorris68

19-06-2007 13:51:24

[quote65af2a6e07="amartin99"]2-300 hmmmm
when I was 17 I tried getting a (secured credit card) at the locall bank
they told me I had to deposit $1000
I was making about $50 a day
and well I just never did get that much saved up
to manny other things I could do with it
even now something allways comes up
I find saving $ to be nearly imposible[/quote65af2a6e07]
The $200-$300 I was talking about was the fee to setup the account, NOT the deposit itself, which is additional. Not all banks charge such ridiculous fees, but there are plenty that do.

I'm pretty sure I've seen secured cards for just a few hundred dollars deposit, if $1000 is too much for you.

skepticalcynic

19-06-2007 13:56:49

[quoteae05a4d398="amartin99"]90% of the response im getting from my advertising
Is people saying they donít have a CC
[/quoteae05a4d398]

There are 2 or 3 decent no-credit-card-required freebie sites (nocc sites, for short). Referrals are worth a lot less but it's a good avenue for refs without cc's...

gambit00x

19-06-2007 14:06:17

There's an announcement on A4F concerning prepaid cards, I think everyone should check it out

http//www.anything4free.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=102011

amartin99

19-06-2007 14:30:52

well I was 17 when I was told $1000
im 33 now
and have 3 normall Creditcards

I tried doing a noCC site last week
it just had 3-4 offers
2 where for requesting a loan
one was for car insurence
im not sure what the forth was or even if there was a forth
but I was of the impression that if somone dosn't have a CC
the reasons for him/her not having one
would also prevent him/her from being able to do the nocc offers on that sit

gator1002

19-06-2007 15:33:57

Thats alot of reading. 5 pages and growing. (Fred)

amartin99

19-06-2007 16:02:37

yea I figured it would bring a lot of atention

.h2o.

19-06-2007 21:18:27

If prepaid cards are so against the rules, let's play a little game!![/color6a50454c39][/size6a50454c39]
(FIPG Admin)[/color6a50454c39]
What is wrong with this statement??[/color6a50454c39][/size6a50454c39]

(Sorry no multiple choice answers to choose from)[/color6a50454c39]

http/" alt=""/img520.imageshack.us/img="520/1299/bbbww3.gif[" alt=""/img6a50454c39]

The front page might need a bit of updating unless of course you want to keep it

dmorris68

19-06-2007 21:30:03

You're right, the front page is a couple years out of date and doesn't get much attention nowadays. I'll make sure to remove that reference, though. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[b2317d41dd1]EDIT[/b2317d41dd1] Fixed.

jenn27rose

25-06-2007 22:27:31

just to let you know. prepaid cards like netspend are considered secured credit cards. in actuallity all prepaid credit cards are secured credit cards. my advice would be to look at the terms and conditions on the offers you do they will tell you weather they allow the pre paids or not. i have only come across one that does not allow pre paid cards. and because of the patriot act all credit cards including pre paid cards have to be verifiable. and if you have a reacurring charge for a pre paid and don't put the money on the card the bank it is issued from will close the account

sandra habina

25-06-2007 23:12:33

Good information. Thankyou, I shall pass this along.

dmorris68

26-06-2007 10:12:02

[quote4582ec39c6="jenn27rose"]just to let you know. prepaid cards like netspend are considered secured credit cards. in actuallity all prepaid credit cards are secured credit cards. my advice would be to look at the terms and conditions on the offers you do they will tell you weather they allow the pre paids or not. i have only come across one that does not allow pre paid cards. and because of the patriot act all credit cards including pre paid cards have to be verifiable. and if you have a reacurring charge for a pre paid and don't put the money on the card the bank it is issued from will close the account[/quote4582ec39c6]
No, prepaids are NOT the same as secured CC's. Gift cards like you buy in a store are not attached to your name or other personal information in any way, and are not reloadable. They cannot be traced back to you for collections purposes, and when their balance is empty, they're no good, and therefore CANNOT be expected to support recurrent billing by advertisers.

A secured CC offers credit while retaining a security deposit as collateral, and requires monthly payments like any other CC account. The collateral balance is never reduced unless you default on paying your account. A prepaid OTOH reduces the deposit with every purchase, and you have to re-deposit money to continue using it (if the prepaid is even reloadable at all).

Reloadable prepaids like Netspend, PayPal, and the one I got my daughter from Citi does have your personal info associated with the account (and your name printed on the physical card), however it still isn't secured. If the Netspend card supports backup funding like PayPal's debit card, then that would be considered a legitimate debit card and should be legit to use. However not attaching to backup funding makes it little more than a reloadable prepaid and thus would likely fall under scrutiny. If too many people abuse PayPal debit cards by disabling backup funding and keeping their PayPal balance too low, and has a lot of declined charges as a result, then expect to see them ban those too.

As has been discussed here, many offer sponsors and affiliate networks have either already banned, or are in the process of banning, the use of prepaids and gift cards due to widespread offer fraud.

So I encourage people to NOT continue to use them. It will only cause you problems down the road, I assure you.

jenn27rose

27-06-2007 22:10:35

the only one i know of that does not require some kind of back up funding is green dot which like you say pretty much a gift card which should not be allowed on here however the pre paid should be cuz i can tell you from experience how many problems i have had personal with doing offers from my bank card and regular credit card 11 hold on an account is nothing to sneeze at ans secured cards make you pay a deposit and whatever amount you deposit on it is your spending limit you don't have a monthly charge unless you spend on it pretty much same as pre paids if you didn't put the money there then you can't use it