How are we getting refs??Don't send a pm /WAS I WRONG?

Live forum: http://forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=60642

tspa

25-04-2007 15:59:04

If I send a pm to someone,and they have not specifically requested i do I am spamming.
Does not matter they signed up at a trading/ref site
Or that they are browsing and their user name is clearly up at the top showing that they are looking to trade at the trading forum.
And we provide our Instant messanger AND our e-mail because we do not want anyone to see it,much less use it.
Little confused here, if someone had never sent me an unsollicated pm I would have never got started.
Seems to me the only people pissed are the ones who are greedy and new to this site, not trading.
Now, admin, my goal is not to make anyone angry,although I will, and I hope I would not get banned for having an opinion.
So here it is
When you sign up at this site and others you are curiouse about a legit way to make money.
OR you have already discovered this wonderfull way to make money
You enter your e-mail so someone can e-mail you
You enter your IM info so someone can IM you
If you do not want that do not enter it
If you do not want a pm because you are browsing then that is what the hidden feature is for
I do not "spam" although I recieve pm's daily that I do not request from people who need refs.
This is part of the job
I can no longer get refs by a post at the trading forum
There is nothing wrong with me
and there is nothing great about me
I appreciate the forum and the ability to conduct my trades here
BUT they are gettin few and far apart,
[b62b2588f8e]this in mind forums such as this are going to become useless inthe future if they cannot be used as intended
to trade for whatever and get refs[/b62b2588f8e][/size62b2588f8e]

jonohull

25-04-2007 16:08:20

Here's the thing someone comes here, learns the ropes by watching trades go down, and reading all the stuff about it. Then, when they're ready to get into it, they make a post saying they are. That's a good use for a forum, and they are certainly not going to become useless.

soon2bbriz

25-04-2007 16:28:41

I agree with tspa! If someone had not approached me when I first joined, then I probably would not be where i am now. I did read all the info available here when I joined but still felt intimidated. Call me shy or whatever but I did not feel comfortable posting in the help section or anywhere for that matter when I first joined because I saw some comments on here that weren't, well let's just say, nice. So, like tspa, I do get pm's daily from people that I have not been in contact with, but I understand that we are all here for the same purpose. I don't go running telling the mods that (cry cry) "SOmeone PM'd me and I didn't ask them to." Just wanted to thank tspa for saying everything I wanted to but didn't have time to sit down and spell it all out like tspa did.

tspa

25-04-2007 17:24:19

As I said, if some one does not want to be contacted, thay can be hidden or choose not to give out their e-mail and/or instant message info.
I am saying that the forum, that I do love, is setting limits that are not truly protecting new users,they can just as easily get scammed or taken advantage of from someone who posts,that they randomly choose
How many refs are you getting per post?

maksmom

25-04-2007 17:33:24

I'm sorta on the fence on this one...although I can see how annoying it could be to get unsolicited PMs, there's always the choice to just ignore them. I don't send a PM unless someone either PMs me first or they've posted a thread specifically saying they want to trade. That being said, my first two trades came from me getting unsolicited PMs and they worked out great. I would have been way too apprehensive about this whole thing to go ahead and start a thread asking for trades, even after reading all the rules (a few times) and lurking for a few days. So in my particular case, I'm glad someone PMd me first. I did get a number of other unsolicited PMs for a couple of weeks after that, but by then I was much more comfortable here and knew the score, so I just ignored them...they did get kinda annoying after a while, though...

Retiree

25-04-2007 18:12:06

I agree with tspa! I receive pms once in a while and I'd wish I could help, I think it's the nature of trading to an extent at least to be active. Referrals are difficult to get, we are all in the same boat.

At the beginning I ignored most pms sent to me, but they were never excessive, this way I never thought it to be that annoying.

laurelwm

25-04-2007 19:19:56

The way I understand it is that anyone who has posted anywhere that they are interested in trading can be PMd (preferably only once) - if they respond, then great, if not, then move on.

I think the uproar lately was with people PMing brand new people within minutes of joining, when they had not even had a chance to read the rules or anything. I know this happens - I was at a friend's house when she was joining, and within literally 3 minutes of signing up here she had 8-10 PMs from people who wanted her to do sites, and she had no idea what she was doing. She has not posted anywhere yet, and is not getting unsolicited PMs anymore, so I'm guessing it was just people who were watching the "newest user" and hitting them immediately, which I think is WRONG.

I get the occasional PM from people who see my posts and if I am not interested in what they are offering I click delete (usually after sending a polite "No thanks" PM, but that's just me.......)

Laurel

condra

25-04-2007 20:22:18

[quoteb3deff0894="laurelwm"]The way I understand it is that anyone who has posted anywhere that they are interested in trading can be PMd (preferably only once) - if they respond, then great, if not, then move on.

I think the uproar lately was with people PMing brand new people within minutes of joining, when they had not even had a chance to read the rules or anything. I know this happens - I was at a friend's house when she was joining, and within literally 3 minutes of signing up here she had 8-10 PMs from people who wanted her to do sites, and she had no idea what she was doing. She has not posted anywhere yet, and is not getting unsolicited PMs anymore, so I'm guessing it was just people who were watching the "newest user" and hitting them immediately, which I think is WRONG.

I get the occasional PM from people who see my posts and if I am not interested in what they are offering I click delete (usually after sending a polite "No thanks" PM, but that's just me.......)

Laurel[/quoteb3deff0894]

I usually add a ''this is considered spam btw'' to that D

cubbieco

25-04-2007 23:20:01

I got a PM spam one night when I wasn't even logged in. I think that person either found a way to spam everybody, or went through the entire list of people who had been there that day. It's those people who caused the pm spam rules to start being enforced.

Personally I don't mind the pm spam being enforced because it equals the playing field a little for people who only use the trade area to find new recruits.

Margot530

26-04-2007 05:21:27

Hello Everyone!

It seems that most of the reasons for and against the unsolicitated, PM's have been covered; but one, for me, and it is a real concern.

I got spammed when I first signed up,and many of them weren't blatant, but sneaky in a way. Those ones welcomed me, stated they saw I was new and offered their help if I needed it and then said "when you are ready to get started, I have many sites." I responded by thanking them for their offer of help, and explained that I was not yet to the point of being comfortable with doing a trade yet, as I am new and want to read everything first...blah blah blah.

It seems that the majority of you have been here longer than I, and as laurel pointed out, the spamming has become ridiculous for new people. I bet that had she not been their when this happened to her friend, that she would have felt very overwhelmed and could have been scared off.
Trying to pressure new people to trade before they have had a chance to get comfortable is wrong. A simple welcome and offer of genuine help could be a kind gesture.

I was so nervous about all of this, and really took my time to make myself as informed as possible, before "I" pm'd another who had posted in the trade thread. My first trade went well, and it gave me just that much more confidence.

I never did do a trade with any of the people who had spamed me. That was a decision I made, as with all the reading I did, I found out that they were breaking the rules, therefore, didn't trust them. That's just me wink

The real concern is scaring new people off. How many do you think believe this truely works and isn't a scam to begin with? Being jumped on by a bunch of people like that? I don't agree with it, and like the rule. If you offer genuine help as I stated, it is very possible that that person may respond and become a referral in time....but if you aren't really interested in helping anyone but yourself.....

Just my 2 cents. D

Thanks,

Margot

Margot530

26-04-2007 05:35:28

I forgot to respond to condra...Hi condra D

It's my understanding, (and would love to hear one way or the other) that if you have ever posted a trade thread, and it still exists on page 458, and not closed or removed, that a person is not truly spamming you, just looking a little dumb since it is obviously not an active thread.

I have no idea if you have ever posted a thread condra, so don't take my stating this as any kind of accusation of wrong on your part...just would like clarification on this???

Thanks everyone!

Margot

skepticalcynic

26-04-2007 07:17:07

Before I even joined this forum, I read all the rules and "lurked" around to see what was going on. By the time I actually joined, I had a pretty good idea of how this works. I took the advice given by many people to contact an experienced trader with "presence" and asked if she would be willing to help me get started. She did and it was great - thank you sandra_habina ;-) In the meantime I got a few "spams". I checked out their profiles and the trade comments about them, and ended up doing trades with them which worked out very well. I was not in the least annoyed by their PMs because I took the time to check them out before making a decision. This is kind of a reverse "caveat emptor", as far as I'm concerned. There is more than enough information available to make an educated choice about whether or not to trade with someone - even for a newbie.

That said, the real question for me at this point is - with so much competition, and so many people taking the chance of paying on green, how on earth can I possibly get the refs I need without losing money on people going red? I really feel better paying on approval, but who's willing to wait when they can get paid on green? I'm very frustrated about this !!

8) melissa

Jenne1975

26-04-2007 11:11:46

Hello Jenne here!! Yes I still consider myself a newbie. Even though Ive got some trades under my belt. When I first started on this I was very worried that I was getting myself into something where I would waste my hard earned money again. I started by reading the "rules" which personaly confused the crap out of me. (lol) My first 4 PMs I ignored. Read the rules again then took my 5th PM and answered that I was ready. Noticed that he didnt have as many but he was very kind. Petieroman walked me through on how to delete my cookies and all the good stuff. We made our trade and he is going to pay me on approval. Ended up doing two trades with him and he has paid one and next one will be paid soon. That was March 28th. I dont mind being paid on approval but I needed money and trades, so I could go ahead and gets referrels and make the big bucks. So I just took any trade that PMed me. So I really think Pming new people is good and learning experience. I also knew to check the profiles and make sure I was trading with a "honest" trader.
In any money making business there is scams and greedy people. Just got to check profiles and make smart choices. I also PM newbies. I check to see who is online. I check their profiles and check to see if they posted anything. If they have I PM them about my trades. Late at night when I see hardly anyone is online. Yes I do PM newbies when they havent posted anything yet. Only to see if they need any help. Since I know it can be very confusing at times. I only PM them once .. unless they PM back. Thanks for letting me hurl out my comments. shock

tspa

26-04-2007 19:15:11

I am glad to see so many people respond to this thread. I personally am very frustrated because I am not getting the refs I need. I have read over the comments and find that most peope are truly,well intended or not, breaking the rules to get refs. According to the rules ANY unsolicited pm's are spam.Bearing that in mind, how do I compete with someone sending out pm's to newbies,wether it be late at night or as they are browsing the trading forum? Do I risk a ban in order to compete?

MovinForward

26-04-2007 19:59:28

The spam rule here (as far as I know) is not to pm anyone without express permission, it is and I quote this from the spam rules "
DONíT spam users with PMís about trading unless they show some prior interest in trading." At the FLR the spam rule is much more restrictive, there you are not allowed first contact - period. I made a post over there very, very similar to this one because I too got fed up with no ref's. I'm hear to make money and if you show an interest in trading, then you are most likely going to hear from me. I do not agree that anyone should be contacted immediately upon registering, that's wrong - plain and simple. Just my two cents.

dmorris68

27-04-2007 05:09:42

Sorry I didn't see this earlier.

I think some of you misunderstand how things work here.

The fact that someone is [i0103848760]browsing[/i0103848760] the Trading Post and reading topics does not mean they want to trade, and does not give you the right to PM them to ask about trading. [b0103848760]We have a very clear method in place that makes it simple to determine who is looking for trades, or to signal that you are interested in trading.[/b0103848760] It's called "making/bumping a post in the Trading Module."

Not everybody here is interested in trading. Of those that are, most aren't doing it all the time. Therefore to receive unsolicited trade spam is a major annoyance to them. That's one reason.

Another (very important) reason is that newbies are easy prey for scammers. A primary modus operandi of scammers is to jump on newbies as soon as they register. YOU may not mind being PM'd, but YOU aren't in the positions of having to deal with the dozens of others who ARE bothered by it, or who DO get scammed from it.

You can hide your IM and e-mail, you cannot "hide" your PM ability -- it's a function of the forum software. If you wish to ever send PM's, then you will also receive them. Now we can disable your PM access for you, but that completely removes you from liallli PM access, which is probably not what you want.

Therefore in the best interest of our members, and to help protect our newbies from being taken advantage of, unsolicited [b0103848760]trading[/b0103848760] PM's have been and always will be prohibited. This is what we refer to as SPAM. The forum has existed this way for years now, so I'm seriously doubting that we're going to "fail" now that you've provided your difference of opinion on the subject.

Now, I feel like this is 827th time I've said this, but I'll say it again for those who might still be confused. Unsolicited PM's that do not involve trade requests or other attempts to sell or trade something are fine. You do not have to ask permission to PM someone like that. So feel free to ask your questions, or to welcome new members, or to complement/criticize someone via PM. Unless you're out there just bothering any and everybody all the time, and they complain about it, nobody is going to have a problem with unsolicited PM's.

laurelwm

27-04-2007 05:18:30

Thanks, David. That spells it out very clearly.

Laurel

Admin

27-04-2007 09:21:24

[quoteb062c6a457="tspa"]If I send a pm to someone,and they have not specifically requested i do I am spamming.
Does not matter they signed up at a trading/ref site
Or that they are browsing and their user name is clearly up at the top showing that they are looking to trade at the trading forum.[/quoteb062c6a457]
there are plenty of good reasons for somebody to be browsing the trading forum without having an interest in being solicited. that's just common sense (e.g. the users who help us police the board by reporting posts, people with a cursory interest, people who clicked the wrong forum by accident...)
[quoteb062c6a457]And we provide our Instant messanger AND our e-mail because we do not want anyone to see it,much less use it.[/quoteb062c6a457]
some people do not realize that those fields are optional, and some people do not realize that they will be made public. regardless, the forum experience that we intend for people to have here explicitly does not include being pestered by people attempting to make money. it's annoying and it alienates people.
[quoteb062c6a457]Little confused here, if someone had never sent me an unsollicated pm I would have never got started.
Seems to me the only people pissed are the ones who are greedy and new to this site, not trading.[/quoteb062c6a457]what does greed have to do with anything? i don't think it's greedy to expect that you wont be slammed with unsolicited PMs as soon as you register.

[quoteb062c6a457]Now, admin, my goal is not to make anyone angry,although I will, and I hope I would not get banned for having an opinion.[/quoteb062c6a457]
why does everyone keep saying this??? i can't even remember the last time i banned anyone at all, let alone for taking the time to give us feedback (which we really, truly, and actually appreciate and take to heart).
[quoteb062c6a457]
So here it is
When you sign up at this site and others you are curiouse about a legit way to make money.
OR you have already discovered this wonderfull way to make money
[/quoteb062c6a457] ... or you want to participate in the active discussions in off-topic, which is the largest forum by posts and has over TWICE the posts of the next-largest forum? ... or you want to get a feel for the community before you pull out your credit card? ... or you just registered so you could get a donator icon when you donate? ... or you are a long-time lurker but want the convenience of an account? i could go on.
[quoteb062c6a457]
You enter your e-mail so someone can e-mail you
[/quoteb062c6a457]no, you enter your email address because it's required.

[quoteb062c6a457]You enter your IM info so someone can IM you[/quoteb062c6a457]perhaps -- but not unsolicited. if you make a post on a website with your contact information in it, everyone else is not to assume that you are explicitly authorizing them to solicit you commercially. this is the entire logic behind the CAN-SPAM act -- [bb062c6a457]you must opt-in[/bb062c6a457]
[quoteb062c6a457]
If you do not want that do not enter it
[/quoteb062c6a457]on this point i must simply disagree; see above.
[quoteb062c6a457]If you do not want a pm because you are browsing then that is what the hidden feature is for[/quoteb062c6a457]many people (especially those not technically inclined) do not know what the invisible feature is, nor how to use it or for what purposes

[quoteb062c6a457].
I do not "spam" although I recieve pm's daily that I do not request from people who need refs.
This is part of the job[/quoteb062c6a457]it's not a job; it's an internet forum. i'm glad that you are happy to receive unsolicited PMs, but many people are not.
[quoteb062c6a457]
I can no longer get refs by a post at the trading forum
There is nothing wrong with me
and there is nothing great about me
I appreciate the forum and the ability to conduct my trades here
BUT they are gettin few and far apart,[/quoteb062c6a457]
if the trading post was as dismal as you say, i can't imagine that there would already be a page and a half of threads with posts from today at 923AM. it's a fast moving forum and people are definitely still making trades.
[quoteb062c6a457]
[bb062c6a457]this in mind forums such as this are going to become useless inthe future if they cannot be used as intended
to trade for whatever and get refs[/bb062c6a457][/sizeb062c6a457][/quoteb062c6a457]not to be a jerk, but these forums have been around for a long time before you and will most likely continue to be around long after you're gone. again, i appreciate your candid feedback but this is just plain silly -- and i might even borrow your word and call it "greedy".

Wolfeman

27-04-2007 10:15:21

Admin doesn't ban people, we ban people.

Opinions are always welcome but we ain't going anywhere...

tspa

27-04-2007 13:28:06

I am really glad that so many people have taken the time to post to this thread!!! This post was never ment to offend, nor did my post single out an individual user, quote a user, or really bash anyone, I am more respectfull of others than that.
Some things have been explained, even if for the the zillionth time, to have a better understanding.
If I was at one time new at trading
can
I not be new at posting what I see as a problem?
Do I not deserve the same respect that you are asking me to extend?
I sit back and do nothing, no pm's to anyone, no trades and no post and you will keep me safe.
The first time I do post I get ripped in a way that would prevent myself and others from posting what they see as an issue.
EVEN BIGGER!!!
I did misunderstand about the pm's and their references about trading in the message body
Welcomes are ok
trading info is not
some of you have made it personal
YO MAMA IS SO POOR
SHE HANGS THE TOILET PAPER OUT TO DRY
quote that

What is even a bigger issue now is that since you, (more aggresively verbal people with controll issues), have stepped in and so meticulously ripped apart a simple opinion, if not simple minded opinion, that the thread is probably no longer of any use to anyone to post on because if you do post, you are subject to a personal attack.

sandra habina

27-04-2007 13:57:51

I have a question, if we PM someone and welcome them and offer to answer any questions they may have, is it okay that our sites show in our signature on the PM? Or is that considered spamming?

ldybug1752

27-04-2007 14:03:59

Oooooh, good question ^^

Big War Bird

27-04-2007 14:04:25

If there a why for to Admin to automatically generate a PM to new members directing them to the site rules, faq etc.?

Admin

27-04-2007 16:13:32

[quoteda5a91f093="tspa"]stuff[/quoteda5a91f093]

i am at a loss for words. you basically waltz in, shit all over our policies, and then when you get a response to each of your points attempting to explain why we do things the way we do (a courtesy i most certainly did not need to extend) i'm personally attacking you???? you seem like a wonderful person and i bear no ill will towards you. my post was not intended to be a personal attack in any way and i am sincerely sorry if you took it that way.

jlincourt

27-04-2007 18:40:32

Not to get anyone's dander up, but I'm brand new. I spent some time lurking, read the rules (which left me in a panic attack), and waded around in Newbie Island for a while. I think there needs to be some kind of common ground here because I was overwhelmed to the point of paralysis until someone pm'd me, and there's actually advice in Newbie Island NOT to post a thread in the trade forum until you feel like you know what you're doing because you'll get innundated with offers. That advice seems to conflict with policy. Maybe this just shows how much I still don't know what I'm doing. Or maybe a 48 window before unsolicited trade pm's would give noobs time to lurk...

Jenne1975

27-04-2007 21:47:25

Well Im still glad someone PMed me about a trade. Because I was still confused with all the rules. Once I did acouple trades it then became easier and I started to understand what the "rules" where talking about alot better. shock

cubbieco

27-04-2007 22:17:41

I don't want to sound negative, but after I signed up one of the first things I read was the no spamming rule so I was rather annoyed at all the spam I received.