Some new revolutionary idea? (or plz kick me in the nuts)

I know we've got a rule here that says we can't post reflinks.

That's cool. I'm guessing the reason is to prevent people from unknowingly signing up under someone they didn't intend to. shrug Whatever...

But, I was wondering if it would be possible to use the user identifying piece of the reflink in a scammer database?

Here's what I'm thinking...

Most sites don't reveal the email address of your referer. And on some sites, you can change the email address associated with your account. Meaning that the only constant and unchanging piece of EXPOSED data about the account is the "id" from the reflink.

I think this would be VERY useful for a scammer database; in addition to other information (which may or not be valuable information) like their email address, AIM screenname, etc.

Once a reflink id is listed in the scammer database, people could check it to see if the person they are about to signup under has scammed anyone else (based on the reported reflink id).

Also! All reflinks that are entered into the trading module could be checked. A simple lookup in the scammer database could make this an automatic (and probably as close to foolproof as you could get) scam prevention tool.

Certainly, this won't cover every angle that a scammer could take. But, at the very least it could prevent them from getting their last green on a site.

Thoughts?

It's a good idea. We've had threads for this purpose in the past (see http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=17260[]http//forum.freeipodguide.com/viewtopic.php?t=17260), but it's a bit cumbersome using a thread for something like this.

I think a database could definitely increase the use of a resource like this.

Cool, yeah so it looks like this is already an "accepted practice".

Something like this could also allow admins to correlate reflinks to scammers who try to sneak back on FIPG using new username/email address, when they try to setup trades using reflinks from a previously banned account. Know what I mean, Vern?

http//content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/72/Jim_Varney.jpg[" alt=""/img61930c0304]

Don't think this is threadjacking, but while we are at it, how about users under a certain feedback, say 3 can only have 2 trades open/pending at a time. And then anything below 6 and above 3 can have 5 or so. That was users like Fishbite or whatever can't have trades with many people and scam them all in one night.

Sweet idea agroman.

lol @Vern, his movies never get old

That's a pretty good idea gigante, something like this is in place in a lot of the torrent tracker sites. And agroman, that's a good idea. One I was thinking of creating myself ) ....

[quotecf3ae58946="Gigante"]Don't think this is threadjacking, but while we are at it, how about users under a certain feedback, say 3 can only have 2 trades open/pending at a time. And then anything below 6 and above 3 can have 5 or so. That was users like Fishbite or whatever can't have trades with many people and scam them all in one night.[/quotecf3ae58946]

Excellent idea.

The "scammer database" is a logistical nightmare and prone to problems. How, for example, does someone get de-listed? What exactly are the criteria? I did two sites for Scarface in exchange for a psps4free ood over a month ago and he hasn't logged on since. I would say that I got scammed, but maybe his mom died or his computer broke? Is he really a scammer?

As for the trade limitations, that's not particularly hard to implement. I just need exactly set criteria.

[quoteea78bcf3ff="Admin"]The "scammer database" is a logistical nightmare and prone to problems. How, for example, does someone get de-listed? What exactly are the criteria? I did two sites for Scarface in exchange for a psps4free ood over a month ago and he hasn't logged on since. I would say that I got scammed, but maybe his mom died or his computer broke? Is he really a scammer?

As for the trade limitations, that's not particularly hard to implement. I just need exactly set criteria.[/quoteea78bcf3ff]

Well, maybe "scammer" isn't the proper term... Perhaps the trade module could alert people that they are trading with someone who has received complaints in the past. It could cross-reference to a thread on the board (and/or to the id# of the trade in the trade module).

Not sure how the data in the trade module is stored; so I'm making a lot of assumptions here. But, I'm thinking a table could be created like

[code1ea78bcf3ff]CREATE TABLE `complaint_xref` (
`ref_id` INT UNSIGNED NOT NULL ,
`ref_site_name` VARCHAR( 255 ) NOT NULL ,
`phpbb_tid` INT NOT NULL ,
PRIMARY KEY ( `ref_id` , `ref_site_name` )
);[/code1ea78bcf3ff]

where
phpbb_tid refers to the thread the complaint initially originated from.
the combination of ref_id and ref_site_name uniquely identifies the users ref link
for example,
ref_id = 123456789
ref_site_name = premiumipods.freepay.com

additionally (or, rather, instead of phpbb_tid) it could point to the id# of the trade in the trade module for the admins.

shrug I guess, I'm just grabbing at straws now, maybe??

These "alerts" could simply allow people to make their own decisions on whether to confirm/accept the trade or not.

[quote6e770c455a="agroman"]Well, maybe "scammer" isn't the proper term... Perhaps the trade module could alert people that they are trading with someone who has received complaints in the past. It could cross-reference to a thread on the board (and/or to the id# of the trade in the trade module).

Not sure how the data in the trade module is stored; so I'm making a lot of assumptions here. But, I'm thinking a table could be created like

[code16e770c455a]CREATE TABLE `complaint_xref` (
`ref_id` INT UNSIGNED NOT NULL ,
`ref_site_name` VARCHAR( 255 ) NOT NULL ,
`phpbb_tid` INT NOT NULL ,
PRIMARY KEY ( `ref_id` , `ref_site_name` )
);[/code16e770c455a]

where
phpbb_tid refers to the thread the complaint initially originated from.
the combination of ref_id and ref_site_name uniquely identifies the users ref link
for example,
ref_id = 123456789
ref_site_name = premiumipods.freepay.com

additionally (or, rather, instead of phpbb_tid) it could point to the id# of the trade in the trade module for the admins.

shrug I guess, I'm just grabbing at straws now, maybe??[/quote6e770c455a]

I didn't mean to imply that setting up the tables would be a chore (although you can't have more than one primary key D), but rather that populating them would be. For freepay, there are about 5 equivalent but distinct valid ways to write ones referral link (ipods.freepay.com/?r=123, ipods.freepay.com?referral=123, ipod.freepay.com/?r=123, freeipods.com/?r=123 and so forth). Scripting something to grab refids and their component sites would be a huge pain. There would also have to be a data entry frontend where someone could manually add the ones in the various threads. BUT - since freepay uses the same table for all their users, we wouldn't need to record anything about the site except that it's freepay (i.e. its not possible for one account on desktopcs and freeipods to have the same refid).

The other obstacle is that there is no data in the trade module that indicates which site(s) the trade is for - its just a freeform string, so matching "bad" reflinks to trades in progress is also difficult.

I've also found that scammers tend to avoid leaving tracks and will not put their reflinks in their trades.

Yeah it seems like they tend to not use the trade module and do the "pm me your link" deal.

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
I didn't mean to imply that setting up the tables would be a chore
[/quote9c002c4181]

Oh, I know. I just though an example would help convey the idea better.

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
(although you can't have more than one primary key D)
[/quote9c002c4181]

Correct, but you can designate two or more fields as the primary key. WHich is what I have done.

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
rather that populating them would be. For freepay, there are about 5 equivalent but distinct valid ways to write ones referral link (ipods.freepay.com/?r=123, ipods.freepay.com?referral=123, ipod.freepay.com/?r=123, freeipods.com/?r=123 and so forth).
[/quote9c002c4181]

okay, i see that. but, you could write a regex to strip the 123 and FQDN from the url.

something like
/http\\/\/(.+)\/.+\/?r\=(.+)$/
maybe?

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
Scripting something to grab refids and their component sites would be a huge pain. There would also have to be a data entry frontend where someone could manually add the ones in the various threads.
[/quote9c002c4181]

I'm not quite sure I follow you here...

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
BUT - since freepay uses the same table for all their users, we wouldn't need to record anything about the site except that it's freepay (i.e. its not possible for one account on desktopcs and freeipods to have the same refid).
[/quote9c002c4181]

I wasn't aware of that, but that is good information to know. I agree that this could be very complicated. The regex above (I haven't even tested it with the urls you posted) but it probably wouldn't work for other sites like TRAIN, etc.

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
The other obstacle is that there is no data in the trade module that indicates which site(s) the trade is for - its just a freeform string, so matching "bad" reflinks to trades in progress is also difficult.
[/quote9c002c4181]

That's where the regex comes into play. It would parse out the FQDN and the refid. But, again, it would have be a mammoth regex with several optional arguments, specifically the HTTP GET argument that is passed (r=XXX for freepay, but ref=XXXX for TRAIN)

[quote9c002c4181="Admin"]
I've also found that scammers tend to avoid leaving tracks and will not put their reflinks in their trades.[/quote9c002c4181]

How is that possible? Are you saying that the scammers aren't putting them in there because the trade doesn't even exist in the trade module in the first place?

I have requested, from each one of the folks that I have traded with, that they enter their reflink into the trade module before I sign up, even if they PM or IM it to me. Safety first!

... anyway, if you think it'd be a nightmare to code, that probably marks the end of the discussion. )

[quote463a5f0ada="agroman"]Correct, but you can designate two or more fields as the primary key. WHich is what I have done.[/quote463a5f0ada]
Ok, you got me.

[quote463a5f0ada="agroman"]okay, i see that. but, you could write a regex to strip the 123 and FQDN from the url.

something like
/http\\/\/(.+)\/.+\/?r\=(.+)$/
maybe?[/quote463a5f0ada]

I think the better move would be to stick to the big boys (trainn, oc and freepay), code special cases for each and dont worry about the rest.

[quote463a5f0ada="agroman"][quote463a5f0ada="Admin"]
Scripting something to grab refids and their component sites would be a huge pain. There would also have to be a data entry frontend where someone could manually add the ones in the various threads.
[/quote463a5f0ada]
I'm not quite sure I follow you here...
[/quote463a5f0ada]
There are some 10,000 trades spanning half a year in the database. To build a database of scammer reflinks, we'd first have to identify the fipg user IDs of everyone who is a scammer. That is going to be a huge chore at the very least. Once that's done, I can grab the 'notes' field out of every trade for those users and attempt to parse the reflink out - that's reasonable. But in order for the database to be complete, there would need to be a lot of additional manual data entry because we've got lots of threads with reflinks in them, and certainly there will be some scammers who have reflinks in their PMs but not the trade module. Pooling of immense amounts of data is the only way the db would be useful (there are some 80mb of PMs, 150mb of posts and 30mb of trades).
[quote463a5f0ada="agroman"]
That's where the regex comes into play. It would parse out the FQDN and the refid. But, again, it would have be a mammoth regex with several optional arguments, specifically the HTTP GET argument that is passed (r=XXX for freepay, but ref=XXXX for TRAIN)
[/quote463a5f0ada]
I'm thinking it shouldn't be too hard to grab the FQDN out, and then we can manually compile a list of them for string matching and proceed on a case-by-case basis (i.e. try to match the FQDN to a known one, if it matches, score a hit and record the refid and site).

[quote463a5f0ada="argroman"][quote463a5f0ada="Admin"]
I've also found that scammers tend to avoid leaving tracks and will not put their reflinks in their trades.[/quote463a5f0ada]

How is that possible? Are you saying that the scammers aren't putting them in there because the trade doesn't even exist in the trade module in the first place?

I have requested, from each one of the folks that I have traded with, that they enter their reflink into the trade module before I sign up, even if they PM or IM it to me. Safety first![/quote463a5f0ada]
I'm glad that you do, but many people don't. i.e.
[code1463a5f0ada]
SELECT COUNT( li )
FROM `phpbb_trades`
WHERE first_notes = ""
AND second_notes = ""
======
COUNT(li)
2159
[/code1463a5f0ada]
and
[code1463a5f0ada]
SQL query:
SELECT COUNT( li )
FROM `phpbb_trades`
WHERE first_notes NOT LIKE "%http%"
AND second_notes NOT LIKE "%http%"
======
COUNT(li)
2732
[/code1463a5f0ada]

[quote463a5f0ada="agroman"]... anyway, if you think it'd be a nightmare to code, that probably marks the end of the discussion. )[/quote463a5f0ada]
I'm not afraid of a coding challenge, I'm afraid of hours of menial data entry work because it is not within the scope of my skills to parse every thread in the scammer's forum for relevent data ;)