Official word, regarding people receiving multiple shuffles.

Hold on to them, and don't open them, folks..

[quotefe5f9e2cde]The users whom received second shuffles will be contacted by Gratis via
email and letter letting them know what is happening regarding this. Along
with the letter they will be receiving return packaging with prepaid postage
for the return of the duplicate shuffles. We appreciate the users who have
already contacted us on their own offering to ship the shuffles back, but
will provide return packaging and postage to make this process easier on
them.

You can expect to see the first notification emails go out by 5 PM Eastern
Time today and then the letters following in a matter of days after that.
The returns will be sent via the USPS so that they can be dropped off at any
US mail box or post office location. Once we receive the returns, the users
will no longer be liable for this inventory.[/quotefe5f9e2cde]

Sounds good to me. Glad they're doing their best to make this as little of a hassle as possible for me.

I don't like the language about being "liable for this inventory" however. Once the thing is in the mailbox I am no longer liable - whether they get it or not.

[quote667d5f16a4="CollidgeGraduit"]Hold on to them, and don't open them, folks..

[quote667d5f16a4]The users whom received second shuffles will be contacted by Gratis via
email and letter letting them know what is happening regarding this. Along
with the letter they will be receiving return packaging with prepaid postage
for the return of the duplicate shuffles. We appreciate the users who have
already contacted us on their own offering to ship the shuffles back, but
will provide return packaging and postage to make this process easier on
them.

You can expect to see the first notification emails go out by 5 PM Eastern
Time today and then the letters following in a matter of days after that.
The returns will be sent via the USPS so that they can be dropped off at any
US mail box or post office location. Once we receive the returns, the users
will no longer be liable for this inventory.[/quote667d5f16a4][/quote667d5f16a4]


I don't like that wording either. I am more than happy to return the second shuffle but I wont be responsible for their mistake. I don't like the USPS thing either. That's not exactly a wonderful way to track things is it? I would prefer they use DHL, UPS or Fedex or something.

JT

You are liable. Under federal statue, you are liable for any mail, packages, deliveries that come into your possession should they not be warranted. Failure to return to the appropriate party is in fact a federal felony. Check federal law, Theft of Mail (18 USC 1708 & 1709) and see for yourself. Don't open them up or forget to mail them back because if they so choose, Gratis can file federal charges against you.

Think about this as well. If you chose not to send it back and tell them that you did, who will believe you. They, Gratis, have proof you got it, remember DHL kept a record. You will not have proof you sent it back, or didn't send it back, until they get it back in their hands and determine that they did or didn't get one returned from you. ie, the burden of proof is on you and not them. A one-sided road unfortunately. You may think that this company wont spend the time to go after everyone, but its a lot easier than you think with minimal effort. Its very easy to file a small claims suit, which is all they would have to do based on the price of the item. Who would show up to court in the home base city of Gratis, sorry I don't know where that is, if you got court papers in the mail? To all the people with the "loose" ethics, be careful. It could come back and bite you in the ass.

If they are sending people boxes and prepaid labels for USPS Priority Mail, then they will have tracking #s that let them know when the package has been scanned at your local post office.

More from my contact at Gratis

[quote1871f62477]Thanks for posting that information. Please let users know that we are in no way placing the onus on them for this mistake. This is a serious matter though. One or two, not such a big deal, but $150 multiplied kind of begins to add up. As far as shipping is concerned, we chose postal shipping to make things easier for everyone. Not everyone lives near a DHL or FedEx facility and even if they do, it would be a hassle. Through the USPS we will be able to effectively track these returns and keep up with their return status as we know which users this shipping error affected.

We are just trying to make the best of this situation and truly appreciate
the time and effort of our users returning the shuffles. While, the process
shouldn't take much time at all; the spirit of the effort from these users
won't go unnoticed.
[/quote1871f62477]

[quote5356d6be50="CollidgeGraduit"]More from my contact at Gratis

[quote5356d6be50]Thanks for posting that information. Please let users know that we are in no way placing the onus on them for this mistake. This is a serious matter though. One or two, not such a big deal, but $150 multiplied kind of begins to add up. As far as shipping is concerned, we chose postal shipping to make things easier for everyone. Not everyone lives near a DHL or FedEx facility and even if they do, it would be a hassle. Through the USPS we will be able to effectively track these returns and keep up with their return status as we know which users this shipping error affected.

We are just trying to make the best of this situation and truly appreciate
the time and effort of our users returning the shuffles. While, the process
shouldn't take much time at all; the spirit of the effort from these users
won't go unnoticed.
[/quote5356d6be50][/quote5356d6be50]


aww that sounds a bit more humanlike, i also didn't like the part about "liablity"

[quote8322ddd801]While, the process
shouldn't take much time at all; the spirit of the effort from these users
won't go unnoticed.
[/quote8322ddd801]

lmao, a free t-shirt im guessing.

[quote7104d9037d="CollidgeGraduit"]More from my contact at Gratis

[quote7104d9037d]Thanks for posting that information. Please let users know that we are in no way placing the onus on them for this mistake. This is a serious matter though. One or two, not such a big deal, but $150 multiplied kind of begins to add up. As far as shipping is concerned, we chose postal shipping to make things easier for everyone. Not everyone lives near a DHL or FedEx facility and even if they do, it would be a hassle. Through the USPS we will be able to effectively track these returns and keep up with their return status as we know which users this shipping error affected.

We are just trying to make the best of this situation and truly appreciate
the time and effort of our users returning the shuffles. While, the process
shouldn't take much time at all; the spirit of the effort from these users
won't go unnoticed.
[/quote7104d9037d][/quote7104d9037d]

Nice. Too bad I gotta send it back, but at least they sound pretty human about it. ;) Oh, well. Was nice while it lasted.

yea, i believe they wont take legal action, but will suspend your accounts. So for those who just did the shuffle, and the shuffle alone, enjoy your free shuffle. ;).

[quoteddf16a99ff="vulcan300"]yea, i believe they wont take legal action, but will suspend your accounts. So for those who just did the shuffle, and the shuffle alone, enjoy your free shuffle. ;).[/quoteddf16a99ff]


lol, yup

well the people that recieved 2 of them did they have different tracking numbers or what. I recieved my first one yesterday and would prefer not to accidentally recieve a second one so I can skip this hassle. How do they know which people recieved 2 because I wouldn't want to be accussed of 2 and infact only recieved 1 and have them on my case. Hopefully they have some way of distiguishing how many people go 1 or 2.

[quote019dcbfcbc="Tib"]well the people that recieved 2 of them did they have different tracking numbers or what. I recieved my first one yesterday and would prefer not to accidentally recieve a second one so I can skip this hassle. How do they know which people recieved 2 because I wouldn't want to be accussed of 2 and infact only recieved 1 and have them on my case. Hopefully they have some way of distiguishing how many people go 1 or 2.[/quote019dcbfcbc]

When you searched DHL using your Order # I saw to distinct Tracking numbers. I am assuming the others saw the same?

JT

no thx

First, a disclaimer If I receive a 2nd shuffle, I'll return it. I think everyone should do the same.[/size8e66d14881]

>You are liable... Check federal law, Theft of Mail (18 USC 1708 & 1709) and see for yourself.

But the shuffles were delivered by DHL. 1708 makes it a crime for anyone to steal [b8e66d14881]U.S. mail[/b8e66d14881] or unlawfully possess stolen U.S. mail. 1709 makes it a crime for USPS employees to steal U.S. mail. i.e., these laws only apply to mail handled by the US Postal Service (and not DHL, UPS, FedEx...).

That's not to say Gratis wouldn't win in small claims court. My guess is they would.

[quote6fc83dbcc6="LTSmash"]You are liable. Under federal statue, you are liable for any mail, packages, deliveries that come into your possession should they not be warranted. Failure to return to the appropriate party is in fact a federal felony. Check federal law, Theft of Mail (18 USC 1708 & 1709) and see for yourself. Don't open them up or forget to mail them back because if they so choose, Gratis can file federal charges against you.[/quote6fc83dbcc6]

Please read the statutes you quote! First, 18 USC 1708 & 9 apply to the US MAIL. The Federal Government offers no protection for private carriers ie. Fedex, UPS and DHL. The statues you quote are expressly inapplicable. Even if the statutes protected private carriers, the packages were addressed to those that received them. They cannot steal something that was intended for them.

Where does that leave Gratis? In the hands of the Uniform Commercial Code Article 2. In the UCC Merchants are protected from sending non conforming goods to another merchant, but not to a non-merchant, ie. consumer. In other words... There is no such thing as being liable for Gratis sending you an Ipod Shuffle.

HOWEVER, this does not mean that Gratis will not put all your accounts on hold. Unfortunately this is within the terms and conditions of the site. If you are closer to getting something else, you may want to hurry and get it before they realize you aren't returning the ipod.

Enjoy the brief legal analysis.

Dig

^
Definitely more informative then my response that what he had quoted was inapplicable.

[quote4224d380e5]That's not to say Gratis wouldn't win in small claims court. My guess is they would.[/quote4224d380e5]

That's totally off. As i have posted in the other thread where you've obtained your quotes from. Customers/Consumers are not liable for this type of incident, if and when they do file a suite against you, which they cannot win, you may then choose to countersuit? and rack up some punitive damages?

omg serious screw the law screw Gratis just listen to this.

Would you yourself consider it "moral" to keep what rightfully does NOT belong to you, i dont care about laws, but in your own heart how do you feel for stealing stuff? I mean its virtually no different from walking into the apple store and running off with a mini mac.

[quote4e69fffc5c]omg serious screw the law screw[/quote4e69fffc5c]

yea just screw it ;)

[quote8ec5e6a94f="vulcan300"]
[quote8ec5e6a94f]That's not to say Gratis wouldn't win in small claims court. My guess is they would.[/quote8ec5e6a94f]

That's totally off. As i have posted in the other thread where you've obtained your quotes from. Customers/Consumers are not liable for this type of incident, if and when they do file a suite against you, which they cannot win, you may then choose to countersuit? and rack up some punitive damages?[/quote8ec5e6a94f]

I'll take your word for it. I have no experience w/ small claims court -- it was just a guess. The point of my post was just that 1708/1709 only apply to the USPS.

But like CoMpFrEaK said... screw it. If I get a 2nd shuffle, it'll be returned.

[quote36137d424c="bb7"]That's not to say Gratis wouldn't win in small claims court. My guess is they would.[/quote36137d424c]

That's a bad guess. Let me just put in my two cents..

I was talking about this last night with my boyfriend, and he told me about a friend he had who printed up a bunch of custom checks that said something along the lines of "By endorsing this check you are accepting that my debt is paid in full" - meaning that regardless of the amount on the check, the check still covers the debt it is paying.

He paid off about $10,000 in credit card debts with checks written out for, say, $100. The credit card companies contacted him and told him he was still in debt, and he told them to look at the checks and see what they said. He DID go to court over this, and he DID win. The fact is, when American Express (or any other CC company) endorsed that check, they were entered into that legally binding statement and had to accept the money as-is.

Since then, credit card service agreements have changed to keep this from happening. The guy spent far more in legal fees than the money he actually gave to the credit card companies.

Just because something is unethical doesn't make it illegal, and in the case of the duplicate shuffles, unless there is some hidden law that nobody knows about, the people who received an extra shuffle are in no way liable for the cost of that shuffle. Whether or not Gratis puts your accounts on hold, however, is a different story.

What I don't understand is why they didn't raise any shit when eCost send out duplicate iPods back in November or whenever it was.

[quotebf30fe90ec="CoMpFrEaK"]omg serious screw the law screw Gratis just listen to this.

Would you yourself consider it "moral" to keep what rightfully does NOT belong to you, i dont care about laws, but in your own heart how do you feel for stealing stuff? I mean its virtually no different from walking into the apple store and running off with a mini mac.[/quotebf30fe90ec]

Here's my thoughts

1. gratis gives stuff away for "free", which we all know is a bunchof BS. Gratis MIGHT give you something if you make them and get your friends to make them a bunchof money by supporting their "sponsors". Its not technically a lie, but its pretty dang close.

2. Gratis says "do this and we'll give you something, oh wait, but we dont' have to, and we can take it back if we want"

3. I say screw that. They setup the rules from the beginning to COMPLETE benefit them. Part of being fascist means that when you make a mistake, people are justified in calling your bluff. You can't being overly dictatorial and suddenly expect the people you'd abitrarily screw in the past suddenly act all gracious.

4. But hey, lets just assume that they really are offering me a free shuffle. The first shuffle I did certainly wan't free. It took alot of time and effort to get it, including a few bucks. Now the 2nd shuffle, THERE was my free shuffle.

Totally OT, bit Josiah296, I really like your chattablog layout. Is that something you got from them, or did you design it yourself? If so, what did you use - CSS DIV layers or something else?

[quote6a7646de05="josiah296"][quote6a7646de05="CoMpFrEaK"]omg serious screw the law screw Gratis just listen to this.

Would you yourself consider it "moral" to keep what rightfully does NOT belong to you, i dont care about laws, but in your own heart how do you feel for stealing stuff? I mean its virtually no different from walking into the apple store and running off with a mini mac.[/quote6a7646de05]

Here's my thoughts

1. gratis gives stuff away for "free", which we all know is a bunchof BS. Gratis MIGHT give you something if you make them and get your friends to make them a bunchof money by supporting their "sponsors". Its not technically a lie, but its pretty dang close.

2. Gratis says "do this and we'll give you something, oh wait, but we dont' have to, and we can take it back if we want"

3. I say screw that. They setup the rules from the beginning to COMPLETE benefit them. Part of being fascist means that when you make a mistake, people are justified in calling your bluff. You can't being overly dictatorial and suddenly expect the people you'd abitrarily screw in the past suddenly act all gracious.

4. But hey, lets just assume that they really are offering me a free shuffle. The first shuffle I did certainly wan't free. It took alot of time and effort to get it, including a few bucks. Now the 2nd shuffle, THERE was my free shuffle.[/quote6a7646de05]


I bet you didn't know that Gratis is actually losing money by giving you a product

[quote086c9c7d84="josiah296"][quote086c9c7d84="CoMpFrEaK"]omg serious screw the law screw Gratis just listen to this.

Would you yourself consider it "moral" to keep what rightfully does NOT belong to you, i dont care about laws, but in your own heart how do you feel for stealing stuff? I mean its virtually no different from walking into the apple store and running off with a mini mac.[/quote086c9c7d84]

Here's my thoughts

1. gratis gives stuff away for "free", which we all know is a bunchof BS. Gratis MIGHT give you something if you make them and get your friends to make them a bunchof money by supporting their "sponsors". Its not technically a lie, but its pretty dang close.

2. Gratis says "do this and we'll give you something, oh wait, but we dont' have to, and we can take it back if we want"

3. I say screw that. They setup the rules from the beginning to COMPLETE benefit them. Part of being fascist means that when you make a mistake, people are justified in calling your bluff. You can't being overly dictatorial and suddenly expect the people you'd abitrarily screw in the past suddenly act all gracious.

4. But hey, lets just assume that they really are offering me a free shuffle. The first shuffle I did certainly wan't free. It took alot of time and effort to get it, including a few bucks. Now the 2nd shuffle, THERE was my free shuffle.[/quote086c9c7d84]

This post completely encapsulates the rapdily growing sense of entitlism that is degrading this country...

It is business, they create rules to benefit them because they are in business to make money. They are not a charity, they have no responsibility to be entirely fair, hence the term, buyer beware. The hoops you have to jump through absolutely does not make the ipod free, but if you genuinely believed that they were just giving away ipods with no sort of compensation, you truly need to grow up and take some classes in business.

Though i cannot totally agree with josiah296, like spike(stavros ;) ) pointed out, you cannot completely believe that the promoted ipod is in actuality free without putting forth any effort; this is far from a raffle or contest.

But from that standpoint, the process of obtaining the item also depends on the way you approach the free site campaign by completing the offers which are of no costs, cc's and free trials; then you may assume the ipod was indeed basically free. However in reality, its common that not many follow this route, because of the possibility of completing without dishing forth some investments is nearly impossible.

Compfreak is correct, they do lose a sum of money however he hasn't considered the overall picture of how gratis generates capital.

Those who have violated TOS, those who have decided to start but never completed, those who sign up under no one, and etc etc.


down and out.

[quote8895be2ebf="vulcan300"]Though i cannot totally agree with josiah296, like spike(stavros ;) ) pointed out, you cannot completely believe that the promoted ipod is in actuality free without putting forth any effort; this is far from a raffle or contest.

But from that standpoint, the process of obtaining the item also depends on the way you approach the free site campaign by completing the offers which are of no costs, cc's and free trials; then you may assume the ipod was indeed basically free. However in reality, its common that not many follow this route, because of the possibility of completing without dishing forth some investments is nearly impossible.

Compfreak is correct, they do lose a sum of money however he hasn't considered the overall picture of how gratis generates capital.

Those who have violated TOS, those who have decided to start but never completed, those who sign up under no one, and etc etc.


down and out.[/quote8895be2ebf]

The cornerstone of Economic Theory...

"There is no free lunch."

[quoted8fee1c440="stavros"][quoted8fee1c440="josiah296"][quoted8fee1c440="CoMpFrEaK"]omg serious screw the law screw Gratis just listen to this.

Would you yourself consider it "moral" to keep what rightfully does NOT belong to you, i dont care about laws, but in your own heart how do you feel for stealing stuff? I mean its virtually no different from walking into the apple store and running off with a mini mac.[/quoted8fee1c440]

Here's my thoughts

1. gratis gives stuff away for "free", which we all know is a bunchof BS. Gratis MIGHT give you something if you make them and get your friends to make them a bunchof money by supporting their "sponsors". Its not technically a lie, but its pretty dang close.

2. Gratis says "do this and we'll give you something, oh wait, but we dont' have to, and we can take it back if we want"

3. I say screw that. They setup the rules from the beginning to COMPLETE benefit them. Part of being fascist means that when you make a mistake, people are justified in calling your bluff. You can't being overly dictatorial and suddenly expect the people you'd abitrarily screw in the past suddenly act all gracious.

4. But hey, lets just assume that they really are offering me a free shuffle. The first shuffle I did certainly wan't free. It took alot of time and effort to get it, including a few bucks. Now the 2nd shuffle, THERE was my free shuffle.[/quoted8fee1c440]

This post completely encapsulates the rapdily growing sense of entitlism that is degrading this country...

It is business, they create rules to benefit them because they are in business to make money. They are not a charity, they have no responsibility to be entirely fair, hence the term, buyer beware. The hoops you have to jump through absolutely does not make the ipod free, but if you genuinely believed that they were just giving away ipods with no sort of compensation, you truly need to grow up and take some classes in business.[/quoted8fee1c440]

I run a business, and a damn sucessful one at that.

No, I don't think they were actually giving away the iPods, and that wasn't, and isn't, my point. It's their marketing gimmick, and if they're going to play "read the fine print" with me, I'm gonna play "read the big print."

Its not about entitleism, something I dislike, I think, as much as you dislike it. I'm not owed them an iPod shuffle because they say so in the small print. But they're also not "owed" a shuffle back from me, regardless of how much they might like to think so.

If I screw up and have one of my developers do 5K of work for one of our clients gratis (pun intended), I can ask for them to pay for it, but they most certainly don't have to.

!UPDATE ON DOUBLE SHIPS!

My friend, just told me that HIS friend, got two iPods, and two iPod Shuffles! I dont know if hes going to send his back or not.

recently, he got a double ipod? or you mean back then?

Just recently. Probably within the last two weeks.

dam......

i didn't take my time to sift through the tread for this, but if you look in Gratis's "Terms and Conditions" it states clearly

"(d) If a user has received multiple orders at a shipping address, Gratis Internet has the right, at any time, to refuse future delivery to that address."

Plain and simple

yeh it was stated, basically that's what their capable of doing in terms of this situation. shutting your ish down.

So. has ANYONE gotten their kit to send back the Shuffle in yet or what?

I got my kit. Sitting here on my desk. I'm gonna send back my OC shuffle if an when I get it, maybe. If gratis does anything to my other accounts that is.

I got my return box 5 days after the duplicate shuffle arrived.

Gratis is currently in processing, and I may even have to place their account on hold, so there's not telling when they'll get it back.

Well hell, I still haven't received mine here in Georgia. Grr.

[quotec528608fea]Gratis is currently in processing, and I may even have to place their account on hold, so there's not telling when they'll get it back.[/quotec528608fea]



lol