Sign the Petition for FreePay to Change their ToS

pogue

03-03-2006 09:10:27

[quote8a85d4200d="Jake"]Your petition will change nothing.[/quote8a85d4200d]

How surprising, the first response to a peaceful effort to try and change the mind of Gratis is from Jake, the only person who we've actually ever heard from the company base.

This is the kind of unfortunate attitude I hoped not to encounter from FreePay, a company with an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau.

I'd just like to ask the other members to ignore this and sign the petition anyway. It might not do a thing, but at least you can say you tried to take a stand against a corporation who doesn't care about it's customers and this post shows it very clearly.

[quote8a85d4200d="CollidgeGraduit"]Ironically, the Blog bearing the article about the petition contains referral links... So, are you Anti-Freepay or not?? If you're going to take a stand, I can respect that, but do it whole-heartedly. SCREW FREEPAY I'M NEVER DOING BUSINESS WITH THEM AGAIN!!! Well, not till after I get my Nano and Mac Mini anyway...[/quote8a85d4200d]

I didn't say I was boycotting FreePay. Like everyone else, I spent a lot of time and money trying to complete these sites. I am not going to give up all the effort I put into the two sites I've been actively working on. Truthfully, I am signed up to every single FreePay site except for laptops and have been working on them for over a year trying to get refs. Once I complete these two sites, I will no longer be doing any more free sites.

[quote8a85d4200d="drunkmonkey"]As if the petition wasn't enough of a joke in itself.[/quote8a85d4200d]

A petition is the only logical and democratic way to try and ask a company nicely to listen to their customers. It takes two seconds to fill out and I promise that I will fax, mail & email the results to FreePay.

If you or anyone else wants to sit back and just accept these bogus terms and make no attempt or effort to stand up for yourself then be my guest.

VrExe

03-03-2006 09:16:49

A petition loses its meaning when you have a bunch of spammed sign ups. Just like the online petition. They are much more meaningful when they are physically signed petition form.

Like Jake said, what you are doing won't change anything. At least by the way you are doing it right now.

Jake

03-03-2006 09:19:48

[quotece013d459f="pogue"]
How surprising, the first response to a peaceful effort to try and change the mind of Gratis is from Jake, the only person who we've actually ever heard from the company base.
[/quotece013d459f]

I have already stated numerous times that the decision made on the part of my superiors regarding our policies will undoubtedly not change.

[quotece013d459f="pogue"]
This is the kind of unfortunate attitude I hoped not to encounter from FreePay, a company with an unsatisfactory record with the Better Business Bureau.
[/quotece013d459f]

If you saw how many fraudulent cases the BBB handles on our behalf, you wouldn't bring this up. People who try and defraud us still report us to the BBB on a regular basis and hence, why we have this record. We still send free stuff out to those who earn it legitimately. You know this because [ice013d459f]you have received some[/ice013d459f].

[quotece013d459f="pogue"]
I'd just like to ask the other members to ignore this and sign the petition anyway. It might not do a thing, but at least you can say you tried to take a stand against a corporation who doesn't care about it's customers and this post shows it very clearly.
[/quotece013d459f]

If we didn't care about our customers, then I wouldn't be here communicating with them and encouraged to do so by my superiors.

[quotece013d459f="pogue"]A petition is the only logical and democratic way to try and ask a company nicely to listen to their customers.[/quotece013d459f]

Sorry to break it to you but a corporation is not a democratic construct. Democracy has almost no place in any corporation. Orders come from the top down and are obeyed. The CEO/Board of Directors issue orders and the people below listen, or lose their jobs.

pogue

03-03-2006 09:21:43

[quotebbf5636355="VrExe"]A petition loses its meaning when you have a bunch of spammed sign ups. Just like the online petition. They are much more meaningful when they are physically signed petition form.

Like Jake said, what you are doing won't change anything. At least by the way you are doing it right now.[/quotebbf5636355]

So what do you suggest I do? Catch a plane and go door to door to all the FreePay members all over the country and ask them to physically sign the petition?

The petition site validates the users email and I request the full address, Freepay member info and other valid info so I can sort out if there are phoney signups, unlike other petition sites.

I am open for any suggestions and am willing to do what it takes to let FreePay know how [bbbf5636355]we[/bbbf5636355] feel about the changes. But the key is to organizing as customers and taking a stand.

Jake

03-03-2006 09:25:08

[quote116fa68ea9="pogue"]
So what do you suggest I do? Catch a plane and go door to door to all the FreePay members all over the country and ask them to physically sign the petition?
[/quote116fa68ea9]

Perhaps ask people to print out a copy of your petition, send you the petitions to a PO Box and then send them to us at once?

[quote116fa68ea9="pogue"]
The petition site validates the users email and I request the full address, Freepay member info and other valid info so I can sort out if there are phoney signups, unlike other petition sites.
[/quote116fa68ea9]

If someone wants to give out their address to someone who doesn't have a privacy policy governing the way that information is used, then they are welcome to.

Veek

03-03-2006 09:27:35

I won't sign such a thing.

pogue

03-03-2006 09:37:34

[quote3b06038b3f="Jake"]I have already stated numerous times that the decision made on the part of my superiors regarding our policies will undoubtedly not change.[/quote3b06038b3f]

That is fine and that is you and your companies purgative. However, I and most other members of FreePay feel that this decision is unfair and we do not agree with it. So, we are going to try and take a stand and ask your superiors to change that. If you are just a lackey in the Gratis hierarchy then it should make no difference to you what anyone tries to do to change the FreePay organizations mind about these new ToS.

[quote3b06038b3f="Jake"]If you saw how many fraudulent cases the BBB handles on our behalf, you wouldn't bring this up. People who try and defraud us still report us to the BBB on a regular basis and hence, why we have this record. We still send free stuff out to those who earn it legitimately. You know this because [i3b06038b3f]you have received some[/i3b06038b3f].[/quote3b06038b3f]

I realize that free sites have problems with fraud and they have methods in place to deal with them. Obviously, since I am just a customer, I am not familar with the amount of fraud FreePay has, since it isn't published. All I know is that the BBB has labeled Gratis Internet with an unsatisfactory record "[b3b06038b3f]due to unanswered complaint(s).[/b3b06038b3f]" link[=http//www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=1035561]link

[quote3b06038b3f="Jake"]If we didn't care about our customers, then I wouldn't be here communicating with them and encouraged to do so by my superiors.[/quote3b06038b3f]

So you are saying that changing the terms of service to only give your customers 90 days to complete a site to get the merchandise advertised is fair? Is there a legitimate reason behind this other than to limit the number of gifts FreePay sends out?

If you and your superiors do care about your customers, why not listen to what they have to say or at least make the effort to seem like you want to listen? That's just a little PR hint from me to you.

[quote3b06038b3f="Jake"]Sorry to break it to you but a corporation is not a democratic construct. Democracy has almost no place in any corporation. Orders come from the top down and are obeyed. The CEO/Board of Directors issue orders and the people below listen, or lose their jobs.[/quote3b06038b3f]

I realize that, but I am going to try and change their minds none the less. I personally try to take a stand against things I feel are unfair, so regardless of whatever the leaders of FreePay think, they are going to hear from me anyway.

VrExe

03-03-2006 09:37:38

Pogue, the first thing I would suggest is to keep your smart-ass mouth behind your computer. But if you are that determined to make the change, maybe you should go fly around and get all the physical signatures from each members who hate Freepay. Unless you are afraid to physically show yourself and lead the group.

Otherwise, this online petition thing is a joke. I mean can I say I LOL'd? Making a petition just because a site changed its TOS? WOW!

I can find hundreds and thousands of other better reasons for why a petition started.

CollidgeGraduit

03-03-2006 09:37:52

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pogue

03-03-2006 09:40:20

[quotef269f419fa="Jake"]If someone wants to give out their address to someone who doesn't have a privacy policy governing the way that information is used, then they are welcome to.[/quotef269f419fa]

The privacy policy is clearly noted on the web site here http//www.care2.com/help/membership/privacy.html The site is certified by TrustE.

pogue

03-03-2006 09:41:24

[quote0ca56bb8bd="VrExe"]Pogue, the first thing I would suggest is to keep your smart-ass mouth behind your computer. But if you are that determined to make the change, maybe you should go fly around and get all the physical signatures from each members who hate Freepay. Unless you are afraid to physically show yourself and lead the group.

Otherwise, this online petition thing is a joke. I mean can I say I LOL'd? Making a petition just because a site changed its TOS? WOW!

I can find hundreds and thousands of other better reasons for why a petition started.[/quote0ca56bb8bd]

Thanks for your supportive comments.

pogue

03-03-2006 09:46:31

I find it absolutely astonishing that no one is interested in trying to do anything to take a stand against FreePay's new unfair terms. It really boggles my mind. Do you want to just sit back and do nothing while we are getting flagrantly ripped off???? If so, I'm sorry I even posted this here and I'm sorry I wasted your precious time by posting this.

I am not holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to sign this and if you want to criticize me for doing something so basic as starting an online petition to try and do something to help it so that we actually get the merchandise we signed up for and referred our friends, neighbors, family and coworkers to, then I really don't know what to say to that.

However, if you have some legitimate beef against what I have spelled out in the petition or what's written on my blog then I will be happy to address it. Other than that, I have no idea what all the flamming and hatred against me is for.

CollidgeGraduit

03-03-2006 09:48:59

[quote9e796e25c6="pogue"]I find it absolutely astonishing that no one is interested in trying to do anything to take a stand against FreePay's new unfair terms. It really boggles my mind. Do you want to just sit back and do nothing while we are getting flagrantly ripped off???? If so, I'm sorry I even posted this here and I'm sorry I wasted your precious time by posting this.

I am not holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to sign this and if you want to criticize me for doing something so basic as starting an online petition to try and do something to help it so that we actually get the merchandise we signed up for and referred our friends, neighbors, family and coworkers to, then I really don't know what to say to that.

However, if you have some legitimate beef against what I have spelled out in the petition or what's written on my blog then I will be happy to address it. Other than that, I have no idea what all the flamming and hatred against me is for.[/quote9e796e25c6]

http/" alt=""/img487.imageshack.us/img="487/6569/owlsuchthing4tm.jpg[" alt=""/img9e796e25c6]

VrExe

03-03-2006 09:54:03

This is what I think.

First, your petition isn't very convincing.

Second, most people on FIPG are senior Freepay customers, meaning we have dealt with them for awhile. Therefore we have a good idea of how long it takes for us to finish the sites. 90 days, to me, is more than enough and probably is as well to most others.

The only thing I don't like about the new TOS is the mailing voucher thing. I don't understand why we have to send it in S.

Jake

03-03-2006 09:57:46

[quotec5dbb620ec="pogue"]
That is fine and that is you and your companies purgative. However, I and most other members of FreePay feel that this decision is unfair and we do not agree with it.[/quotec5dbb620ec]

The word is prerogative but I digress. Life isn't fair. Thats the way it goes. If you looked at our books and saw the numbers we had to deal with, you would understand why this decision was made. Since you haven't seen this data, I recommend you stop making assumptions.

[quotec5dbb620ec="pogue"]
If you are just a lackey in the Gratis hierarchy then it should make no difference to you what anyone tries to do to change the FreePay organizations mind about these new ToS.
[/quotec5dbb620ec]

Don't call me a 'lackey.' I defend the company that I work for because they gave me a job. I happen to be grateful for the opportunity that they have given me and I defend their decisions because I understand the [ic5dbb620ec]reasoning for them.[/ic5dbb620ec] I am just telling you not to waste your time. Since you have 90 days to complete your remaining sites, perhaps you should devote your efforts to that instead.

Your two options here are as follows - we can keep giving away stuff in the manner that we did before the change and be out of business in a year, or we can change our policies so that we can account for revenues better and stay in business for longer.

I know which of the two I prefer. Do you?

[quotec5dbb620ec="pogue"]
All I know is that the BBB has labeled Gratis Internet with an unsatisfactory record "[bc5dbb620ec]due to unanswered complaint(s).[/bc5dbb620ec]" link[=http//www.dc.bbb.org/report.html?national=Y&compid=1035561]link
[/quotec5dbb620ec]

You know why the BBB has these complaints against us (which we are working to respond to) yet you still use it as ammunition against us even though you know the complaints are unfounded? That doesn't give you a tremendous amount of credibility.

[quotec5dbb620ec="pogue"]
So you are saying that changing the terms of service to only give your customers 90 days to complete a site to get the merchandise advertised is fair? Is there a legitimate reason behind this other than to limit the number of gifts FreePay sends out?
[/quotec5dbb620ec]

The legitimate reason is explained above and I will issue an official statement soon as well. Don't make assumptions based on speculation and zero evidence.

[quotec5dbb620ec="pogue"]
If you and your superiors do care about your customers, why not listen to what they have to say or at least make the effort to seem like you want to listen? That's just a little PR hint from me to you.
[/quotec5dbb620ec]

You think we haven't heard? I suggest you read the threads in this forum. If Freepay didn't care, I wouldn't be here. Plain and simple.

Jake

03-03-2006 09:59:17

[quoted3bba14fbe="pogue"][quoted3bba14fbe="Jake"]If someone wants to give out their address to someone who doesn't have a privacy policy governing the way that information is used, then they are welcome to.[/quoted3bba14fbe]

The privacy policy is clearly noted on the web site here http//www.care2.com/help/membership/privacy.html The site is certified by TrustE.[/quoted3bba14fbe]

But if the petition and information makes its way into [id3bba14fbe]your[/id3bba14fbe] hands like you say it will before you send it, its integrity and security are not guaranteed.

pogue

03-03-2006 10:03:49

[quote69a90e6b97="VrExe"]This is what I think.

First, your petition isn't very convincing.[/quote69a90e6b97]

What would make it more convincing? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'd like to know. If there is something more to add, I would be more than willing to add it.

[quote69a90e6b97="VrExe"]Second, most people on FIPG are senior Freepay customers, meaning we have dealt with them for awhile. Therefore we have a good idea of how long it takes for us to finish the sites. 90 days, to me, is more than enough and probably is as well to most others.[/quote69a90e6b97]

I too consider myself a veteran FP customer. As you may notice by my join date on this forum, I first signed up when freeipods.com was one of their first sites around and I got my ipod in '04. As for the other sites, I have been actively trading them for quite awhile, I also dealt with many of the other sites, including a lot of them that closed down. I filed many complaints against companies that ripped me off and actually filed a claim with a collection agency against one that was run by a 15 year old kid that ripped me off for a flat screen monitor. I detailed that experience on my blog and on the Gearlive forums if anyone is interested I can link to that.

After the SearchCactus crash and a lot of free sites went down, I only did FreePay sites because they were the only ones that you knew (or thought you knew) were going to be in for the long run and will deliver your goods to you. So far I've gotten my ipod, PS2, and PSP from them, which I thank them for. I've done so by trading with people and luckily haven't had to spend very much if any money doing so. I've told everyone I know about FreePay and how cool it is to get free stuff from them and have promoted it to a lot of people.

Unfortunately, I might not be a fast a trader as some other people and I can't afford to pay the high rates to get people to sign up under me as some others so it takes me longer to do some of the sites. Some of the sites I've been signed up for 2 years or more on and still haven't completed them.

[quote69a90e6b97="VrExe"]The only thing I don't like about the new TOS is the mailing voucher thing. I don't understand why we have to send it in S.[/quote69a90e6b97]

I agree, I think that's pretty dumb as well, but that's not my real complaint with their changes.

Jake

03-03-2006 10:05:14

[quote9ae6cb3df7="pogue"] Do you want to just sit back and do nothing while we are getting flagrantly ripped off????[/quote9ae6cb3df7]

We aren't ripping you off. It's not like we shut down and ran away.

[quote9ae6cb3df7="pogue"]
I am not holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to sign this and if you want to criticize me for doing something so basic as starting an online petition to try and do something to help it so that we actually get the merchandise we signed up for and referred our friends, neighbors, family and coworkers to, then I really don't know what to say to that.
[/quote9ae6cb3df7]

You will still get your stuff if you work for it. If you stop working for it, it won't come. Simple as that.

justinag06

03-03-2006 10:06:20

yeah kid you got 90 days no two ways about it, either move on and hurry up and start getting refs, or get over yourself.

whats done is done, we are small fish to freepay they arent going to buckle under pressure from us here at FIPG, so it really is a waste of your time.

Veek

03-03-2006 10:28:36

+Kma to CG for the giggles.

pogue

03-03-2006 10:30:02

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]The word is prerogative but I digress. Life isn't fair. Thats the way it goes. If you looked at our books and saw the numbers we had to deal with, you would understand why this decision was made. Since you haven't seen this data, I recommend you stop making assumptions.[/quote4759f36f39]

I can only make assumptions since FreePay doesn't release it's data publicly. If you have problems with fraud then that is not the legitimate customers problem, it's not our responsibility to ensure that people don't rip you off or that you lose money. We only signed up to your sites because you advertise that you are giving away something for free, so all we can do is complete the offer and sign up X amount of referrals. If you can't deliver on your promises then maybe you should tell your superiors to stop advertising that what you're giving away is really free and change your name to NotQuiteFreePay.

Obviously I'm here because I have used the free site system to get stuff from you and other companies. If I didn't think it worked I wouldn't be here typing this. A lot of people might say that its a pyramid scheme and not do it at all. The point I'm trying to make is that FreePay is passing the buck off to it's customers because "the numbers you have to deal with".

According to the Wikipedia, FreePay/Gratis is a "non-sustainable business model". That seems to be more true from what I'm hearing...

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]Don't call me a 'lackey.' I defend the company that I work for because they gave me a job. I happen to be grateful for the opportunity that they have given me and I defend their decisions because I understand the [i4759f36f39]reasoning for them.[/i4759f36f39] I am just telling you not to waste your time. Since you have 90 days to complete your remaining sites, perhaps you should devote your efforts to that instead.[/quote4759f36f39]

Thanks for the advice. I'll give you some in turn. You might start thinking about posting your resume on monster.com because it sounds like the boat is sinking.

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]Your two options here are as follows - we can keep giving away stuff in the manner that we did before the change and be out of business in a year, or we can change our policies so that we can account for revenues better and stay in business for longer.

I know which of the two I prefer. Do you?[/quote4759f36f39]

My guess is that either way you'll be out of business in a year if that is how badly a position FreePay is in. Your entire company model is based on word of mouth advertising. If word of mouth is bad then no one is going to sign up.

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]You know why the BBB has these complaints against us (which we are working to respond to) yet you still use it as ammunition against us even though you know the complaints are unfounded? That doesn't give you a tremendous amount of credibility.[/quote4759f36f39]

How do I know that they are unfounded??? If they're unfounded and don't matter then why are you getting so defensive about it? I could also say that FreePay/Gratis is listed numerous times on ripoffreport.com. Are all of those unfounded too?

Anyway, that's irrelevant. You & FreePay's issue with the BBB and any other consumer agency is your business. My issue is with the changes in the terms of service, my disagreement with them, and my suggestion that people sign a petition to be sent to your superiors to ask and change them.

[quote4759f36f39="pogue"]
So you are saying that changing the terms of service to only give your customers 90 days to complete a site to get the merchandise advertised is fair? Is there a legitimate reason behind this other than to limit the number of gifts FreePay sends out?
[/quote4759f36f39]

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]The legitimate reason is explained above and I will issue an official statement soon as well. Don't make assumptions based on speculation and zero evidence.[/quote4759f36f39]

I'm not making any assumptions, I'm simply asking for your opinion on the matter. However, I realize your tongue is tied because you are an employee of the company in question. If you answered honestly you would probably get in trouble.

[quote4759f36f39="Jake"]You think we haven't heard? I suggest you read the threads in this forum. If Freepay didn't care, I wouldn't be here. Plain and simple.[/quote4759f36f39]

Great, I'm glad you're here. I understand that you have helped to get people off hold and to remedy peoples accounts who have had problems. I commend you for that. Otherwise, I don't see the point of you having to be a parrot of what your superiors say. I got the email, I don't need to hear it again.

CollidgeGraduit

03-03-2006 10:30:44

[quote53072a9e54="Veek"]+Kma to CG for the giggles.[/quote53072a9e54]

http/" alt=""/img446.imageshack.us/img="446/2341/owlooya0jv.jpg[" alt=""/img53072a9e54]

pogue

03-03-2006 10:33:20

[quote8bd7146015="Jake"]But if the petition and information makes its way into [i8bd7146015]your[/i8bd7146015] hands like you say it will before you send it, its integrity and security are not guaranteed.[/quote8bd7146015]

If you're insinuating that I've set up the petition so I can harvest peoples data then I will just have to state that that is not true. It is optional for people to enter their info and they can do it anonymously.

Unfortunately I don't have the funds to go out and set up a PO box and ask people to mail me in signed letters. Why would I want to do that anyway if what I'm hearing from the official FreePay rep is that "we don't care what you think, the ToS are here to stay so get used to it".

pogue

03-03-2006 10:37:41

[quote9c3f614ba7="justinag06"]yeah kid you got 90 days no two ways about it, either move on and hurry up and start getting refs, or get over yourself.[/quote9c3f614ba7]

I'm working on it.

[quote9c3f614ba7="justinag06"]whats done is done, we are small fish to freepay they arent going to buckle under pressure from us here at FIPG, so it really is a waste of your time.[/quote9c3f614ba7]

Well, just FYI, I didn't just post it here. But, if it's a waste of my time then it shouldn't matter to anyone how I waste it.

Better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Jake

03-03-2006 10:43:47

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
I can only make assumptions since FreePay doesn't release it's data publicly. If you have problems with fraud then that is not the legitimate customers problem, it's not our responsibility to ensure that people don't rip you off or that you lose money. We only signed up to your sites because you advertise that you are giving away something for free, so all we can do is complete the offer and sign up X amount of referrals. If you can't deliver on your promises then maybe you should tell your superiors to stop advertising that what you're giving away is really free and change your name to NotQuiteFreePay.
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

You are responding to a statement that had nothing to do with fraud. The above statement was just verbal diarrhea, IMHO.

We deliver on our promises. Did you already forget what you have received from us?

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
The point I'm trying to make is that FreePay is passing the buck off to it's customers because "the numbers you have to deal with".
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

Please. roll This decision was done to protect ourselves as a business. What part of that did you miss?

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
According to the Wikipedia, FreePay/Gratis is a "non-sustainable business model". That seems to be more true from what I'm hearing...
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

Well, since Wikipedia is unaware of our changes so far, perhaps they are wrong. Don't take Wikipedia for absolute truth. It is open source you know.

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
Thanks for the advice. I'll give you some in turn. You might start thinking about posting your resume on monster.com because it sounds like the boat is sinking.
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

You would be the one to know right? roll

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
My guess is that either way you'll be out of business in a year if that is how badly a position FreePay is in. Your entire company model is based on word of mouth advertising. If word of mouth is bad then no one is going to sign up.
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

Once again, you are making assumptions based on 0 evidence.

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
How do I know that they are unfounded??? If they're unfounded and don't matter then why are you getting so defensive about it? I could also say that FreePay/Gratis is listed numerous times on ripoffreport.com. Are all of those unfounded too?
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

Read one of my prior comments regarding the kinds of complaints we have at the BBB/Ripoff Report. If we were continuously ripping people off, we would not be in business and the FTC/SEC would have shut us down already. Look at 12dailypro!

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm simply asking for your opinion on the matter.
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
Is there a legitimate reason behind this other than to limit the number of gifts FreePay sends out?[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

THAT is an assumption and not a question.

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
However, I realize your tongue is tied because you are an employee of the company in question. If you answered honestly you would probably get in trouble.
[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

I have given you a bare bones explanation and promised some more detail later. You have not acknowledged it.

[quote9f23d9e7a3="pogue"]
Great, I'm glad you're here. I understand that you have helped to get people off hold and to remedy peoples accounts who have had problems. I commend you for that. Otherwise, I don't see the point of you having to be a parrot of what your superiors say. I got the email, I don't need to hear it again.[/quote9f23d9e7a3]

I defend the decisions on the part of the company I work for because - once again - [i9f23d9e7a3]I understand the reasoning behind them.[/i9f23d9e7a3]

egyptianruin

03-03-2006 10:54:15

I hate when people forget their roots. I am sure FreePay got a lot of people reading this a ton of stuff. They had to change their business module (and yeah I was really ticked off when they did) but they did it, I will live with it and everyone will continue breathing. Businesses evolve or go under. I work for a website that had to change how they functioned completely - used to provide certain services free of charge but they needed money because they were growing, getting more employees needed money just for servers. People HATED it, forum was filled with personal attacks on mods, admin the entire site. Sooner or later people got used to it, they lost some of the regular business but gained new business with the upgrades. All in all it had to be done.

johnjimjones

03-03-2006 11:02:54

No offense to Jake, but I don't even know why he's responding to such a joke (not in the funny sense, the pathetic sense).

VrExe

03-03-2006 11:05:34

Because he is a great Customer Rep. Greater than Chuck Norris, I'd say.

Did u get my PM?[/size5b71fcc12d]

Jake

03-03-2006 11:05:44

[quote91e6cd9375="johnjimjones"]No offense to Jake, but I don't even know why he's responding to such a joke (not in the funny sense, the pithetic sense).[/quote91e6cd9375]

You are probably right about this. I guess I felt the need to make a few points clear in and amongst a whole pile of assumptions and accusations.

drunkmonkey

03-03-2006 11:11:59

[quotec24c770185="VrExe"]Because he is a great Customer Rep. [bc24c770185]Greater than Chuck Norris, I'd say.[/bc24c770185][/quotec24c770185]

I'll take "Famous Last Words" for $400, Alex. As least it should be swift and painless.

egyptianruin

03-03-2006 11:15:11

[quotef4545b6696="Jake"][quotef4545b6696="johnjimjones"]No offense to Jake, but I don't even know why he's responding to such a joke (not in the funny sense, the pithetic sense).[/quotef4545b6696]

You are probably right about this. I guess I felt the need to make a few points clear in and amongst a whole pile of assumptions and accusations.[/quotef4545b6696]

I do the same thing, but people will still assume and accuse no matter what you say. Take it with a grain of slat.

grm

03-03-2006 11:16:56

liliMOD EDITlili

Because I don't answer PMs in five minutes.

Your post was irrelevant to the discussion at hand and that is why it was deleted.

pogue

03-03-2006 11:17:13

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]You are responding to a statement that had nothing to do with fraud. The above statement was just verbal diarrhea, IMHO. [/quoted6b9d63f02]

So why argue with me then? If I'm just wasting my time and posting "diarrhea" what difference does it make to you?

You mentioned the numbers in your books. I can only assume that to mean that you are losing money. Why would a company that gives away free stuff to people for completing offers and signing up friends be losing money? Only one reason I can think of....

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]We deliver on our promises. Did you already forget what you have received from us?[/quoted6b9d63f02]

Yes, I remember. I did mention it above. I do feel sorry for people who are going to try and get 20 refs in 90 days to get a laptop though. I also don't like it when I have to make excuses for a company when I've asked my friends/family/neighbors/coworkers to sign up under me and now I have to tell them that they aren't going to be able to get their prizes because they can't sign up enough people in 90 days since they aren't professional traders.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]Please. roll This decision was done to protect ourselves as a business. What part of that did you miss?[/quoted6b9d63f02]

I don't even know where to begin to respond to this. [id6b9d63f02]Of course[/id6b9d63f02] you did it to protect yourself as a company. No one is disputing that. What I'm saying is that we're getting the raw end of the deal because of your need to protect yourselves. Let's be honest here and state our true intentions. We, as customers, want free stuff. Obviously we could care less if FreePay makes money. You, as a corporation, want to make money. You could care less if people get their prizes. Your business model is based on the idea that only a certain number of people will be able to complete the obligations to get the prize. If that doesn't happen, then your business will fail because you cannot make enough money in commissions to give away the expensive electronics for what you pay for them vs. how much you get in return. That is the matrix business model _period_.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]Well, since Wikipedia is unaware of our changes so far, perhaps they are wrong. Don't take Wikipedia for absolute truth. It is open source you know.[/quoted6b9d63f02]

Ok, fair enough. The Wikipedia is an opinion, but it does update fairly quickly. In fact, you could go update it yourself to let them know about your recent changes. Other than that, I could go dig up news articles or actions by the FTC but I don't really feel like it.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]You would be the one to know right? roll[/quoted6b9d63f02]

Well, [id6b9d63f02]you did say[/id6b9d63f02] that if I could see the numbers in your books... When a company takes an action like this (pull an "Offercentric") and goes down to a C rating on A4F I'd say that isn't a good thing.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]Once again, you are making assumptions based on 0 evidence.[/quoted6b9d63f02]

Okay, let's clarify how FreePay works exactly. In order for a user to complete an offer to get a gift they have to [bd6b9d63f02]referrer[/bd6b9d63f02] people under them. That means that it is a word-of-mouth advertising campaign. It doesn't matter how many articles in wired, CNN, or anywhere else you have. People absolutely have to have people sign up under them to complete the offer, there is no two ways about it. The evidence is just in the way it's setup, there are no assumptions. I [id6b9d63f02]have[/id6b9d63f02] gotten gifts, right? I must know how it works.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]Read one of my prior comments regarding the kinds of complaints we have at the BBB/Ripoff Report. If we were continuously ripping people off, we would not be in business and the FTC/SEC would have shut us down already. Look at 12dailypro![/quoted6b9d63f02]

That's BS and you know it. The SEC doesn't have any jurisdiction over free prize sites, and the FTC has not taken any action against any free sites either. I should know, I complained[=http//pogue972.blogspot.com/2006/01/how-to-resolve-complaints-get-your.html]complained enough times about them. Just for example, the BBB got 40k complaints against StormPay, another completely unrelated company from yours, and nothing has been down about them.

Either way, I never said that you ripped anyone off. All I said was that you have an unsatisfactory record with the BBB because of lack of responding to complaints. That's it.

[quoted6b9d63f02="pogue"]
I'm not making any assumptions, I'm simply asking for your opinion on the matter.
[/quoted6b9d63f02]

[quoted6b9d63f02="pogue"]
Is there a legitimate reason behind this other than to limit the number of gifts FreePay sends out?[/quoted6b9d63f02]

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]THAT is an assumption and not a question.[/quoted6b9d63f02]

Generally (at least in the USA, speaking modern English) when you put a question mark on the end of a sentence that would make it a question. I guess that's just splitting hairs though. Still waiting on a reply to that question none the less.

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]I have given you a bare bones explanation and promised some more detail later. You have not acknowledged it.[/quoted6b9d63f02]

The explanation was so that FreePay can stay in business? Because the numbers in your books aren't looking so good? Was that it, or did I miss it?

[quoted6b9d63f02="Jake"]I defend the decisions on the part of the company I work for because - once again - [id6b9d63f02]I understand the reasoning behind them.[/id6b9d63f02][/quoted6b9d63f02]

That is fine with me. You can continue to argue with me until May 1st if you like, but I will still keep the petition up and keep asking for the same thing. That is my final stance on it, regardless of whatever reason you or FreePay gives. My reason? Because it is my right as a consumer to do so.

EatChex89

03-03-2006 11:20:03

petitions suck.

it's always the old ladies that get out there.

CollidgeGraduit

03-03-2006 11:21:08

[quote6c5ea2243e="EatChex89"]petitions suck.

it's always the old ladies that get out there.[/quote6c5ea2243e]

with big glasses with neck chains on them

pogue

03-03-2006 11:26:20

[quote039d9333c9="egyptianruin"]I hate when people forget their roots. I am sure FreePay got a lot of people reading this a ton of stuff. They had to change their business module (and yeah I was really ticked off when they did) but they did it, I will live with it and everyone will continue breathing. Businesses evolve or go under. I work for a website that had to change how they functioned completely - used to provide certain services free of charge but they needed money because they were growing, getting more employees needed money just for servers. People HATED it, forum was filled with personal attacks on mods, admin the entire site. Sooner or later people got used to it, they lost some of the regular business but gained new business with the upgrades. All in all it had to be done.[/quote039d9333c9]

I just want to state that I have nothing personal against Jake or FreePay as a company. I do not hate them or think of them negatively for what Jake & FreePay is saying. I will also say that their business is theirs alone and how they choose to run it is final and there is absolutely nothing I, nor anyone else can do if they choose to remain it as such.

The idea behind this petition was an attempt to let it be known simply that I disagree with FreePay's new ToS and if other people agree with me then they can sign it and I will submit it to FreePay to let them know how the customers who signed the petition feel. The idea was to do this amicably and try and negotiate a fair deal where everyone will come out happy.

Unfortunately, the first response I get from Jake on this issue is simply "this won't change anything, don't waste your time". All that does for me is increase my resolve to try harder. If you agree with me, then thanks for your support. If you don't, well, I really don't care. Flame me all you wish, but I will still continue to fight for change, even if you're pessimistic and don't think it will work. I'm trying to make it right for all of us, not just me.

justinag06

03-03-2006 11:45:32

lililililililiNEWSFLASHlilililililililililili

This just in

EVERYONE hates freepays new ToS change, and we...whats that?.... ok.... I just got word that Freepay knew EVERYONE would hate it too, yet they did it anyways.

My position is freepay's self esteem is pretty low right now, they are just looking for some attention, and aren't really serious about any of this.

it's over!

tsanghan

03-03-2006 11:46:02

chuck norris wishes he was jake.

Jake

03-03-2006 11:51:45

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
You mentioned the numbers in your books. I can only assume that to mean that you are losing money. Why would a company that gives away free stuff to people for completing offers and signing up friends be losing money? Only one reason I can think of....
[/quote0c9b161732]

No it means that we don't want to lose money and want to continue making it. The numbers don't just mean dollars and cents. Statistics, projections, and mathematical models of performance are part of how we made our decision.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
What I'm saying is that we're getting the raw end of the deal because of your need to protect yourselves. Let's be honest here and state our true intentions. We, as customers, want free stuff. Obviously we could care less if FreePay makes money. [/quote0c9b161732]

Then don't participate in our sites and propagate the free stuff idea.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]You, as a corporation, want to make money. You could care less if people get their prizes. [/quote0c9b161732]

First statement is true. Second is not. If we don't give away free prizes and have no reputation for doing so, then we don't exist. If we were making promises that we couldn't keep, then you could be 100% certain we would be shut down by the authorities.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
Well, [i0c9b161732]you did say[/i0c9b161732] that if I could see the numbers in your books... When a company takes an action like this (pull an "Offercentric") and goes down to a C rating on A4F I'd say that isn't a good thing.
[/quote0c9b161732]

The reason we were pulled down to grade C was because of a user poll, not because of our performance. We have still given away more than anyone else who shares our business model and have the best reputation for doing so.

Our volume may drop initially but it doesn't mean that we have (a) stopped sending stuff out and (b) started putting people on hold arbitrarily.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
Okay, let's clarify how FreePay works exactly. In order for a user to complete an offer to get a gift they have to [b0c9b161732]referrer[/b0c9b161732] people under them. That means that it is a word-of-mouth advertising campaign.
[/quote0c9b161732]

Then you haven't seen any of our banners or masses of other advertisements on the internet?

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
Either way, I never said that you ripped anyone off. All I said was that you have an unsatisfactory record with the BBB because of lack of responding to complaints. That's it.
[/quote0c9b161732]

But the implication you were making was different.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
Generally (at least in the USA, speaking modern English) when you put a question mark on the end of a sentence that would make it a question. I guess that's just splitting hairs though. Still waiting on a reply to that question none the less.
[/quote0c9b161732]

The assumption was in that we are limiting the amount of gifts being sent out which is incorrect.

[quote0c9b161732="pogue"]
The explanation was so that FreePay can stay in business? Because the numbers in your books aren't looking so good? Was that it, or did I miss it?[/quote0c9b161732]

Freepay is still profitable and making money. We were 18 on the Inc 500 fastest growing companies for last year. The numbers (and these are numbers other than dollars) point to the need for a change so we can ensure the long term health of the company and to continue to give away free stuff to our customers.

If you want to make a useful petition, go petition Congress not to pass the PATRIOT Act.

killerman

03-03-2006 11:59:56

WE GOT JAKE TO SAY VERBAL DHIARREA

ROFLMAO

VrExe

03-03-2006 12:03:08

[quote329fa8479c="justinag06"]lililililililiNEWSFLASHlilililililililililili

This just in

EVERYONE hates freepays new ToS change, and we...whats that?.... ok.... I just got word that Freepay knew EVERYONE would hate it too, yet they did it anyways.

My position is freepay's self esteem is pretty low right now, they are just looking for some attention, and aren't really serious about any of this.

it's over![/quote329fa8479c]

I dunno what I will have to do to understand what you just said right now.

liFartli

Jake, did u get my pm yet?[/size329fa8479c]

pogue

03-03-2006 12:51:13

[quote3925705397="Jake"]No it means that we don't want to lose money and want to continue making it. The numbers don't just mean dollars and cents. Statistics, projections, and mathematical models of performance are part of how we made our decision.[/quote3925705397]

I'm honestly getting tired of arguing with you about the reasons behind your decision. The reasons behind it make no difference to me. I could care less what method you used to come to the conclusion that you would lose money. You accuse me of making assumptions, and you're right. I can only make assumptions because I don't have inside knowledge of FP. So, as a consumer, all I understand is that know the requirements for your sites are different than they were before, and in my opinion, unfair. I will continue to hold that opinion unless the ToS are changed.

But, what you are saying is that you changed the ToS because you are losing money or are projecting to lose money. When you changed the ToS you caused the consumer to lose because of the stricter requirements to complete the site. There [i3925705397]are[/i3925705397] other ways of companies raising capital to compensate for loss of income. Again, not my or any other FP members problem.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]Then don't participate in our sites and propagate the free stuff idea. [/quote3925705397]

I could say the same thing to you. Stop falsely advertising, reimburse your customers for their loss and fold as a company.

I am going to finish my two sites and quit, that is my plan - unless the ToS are changed.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]First statement is true. Second is not. If we don't give away free prizes and have no reputation for doing so, then we don't exist. If we were making promises that we couldn't keep, then you could be 100% certain we would be shut down by the authorities.[/quote3925705397]

If you think the authorities are looking over your shoulder then put back on your tin foil hat and go back to watching X-Files. You are low on the radar and you know it. The authorities [i3925705397]rarely[/i3925705397] shut down any company, and before they do they send warning letters and even before that they can take years to investigate.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]The reason we were pulled down to grade C was because of a user poll, not because of our performance. We have still given away more than anyone else who shares our business model and have the best reputation for doing so.[/quote3925705397]

Fine, then if you're right you shouldn't have anything to worry about. We'll find out in 3 months.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]Our volume may drop initially but it doesn't mean that we have (a) stopped sending stuff out and (b) started putting people on hold arbitrarily.[/quote3925705397]

I for one have never accused FreePay of putting people on hold arbitrarily. In fact, I have defended you against it.

See 2nd to last rebuttal[=http//www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff137558.htm]See 2nd to last rebuttal
See 1st rebuttal[=http//www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff132253.htm]See 1st rebuttal

[quote3925705397="Jake"]Then you haven't seen any of our banners or masses of other advertisements on the internet?[/quote3925705397]

Well, I'll have to admit that no I do not[=https//addons.mozilla.org/extensions/moreinfo.php?id=10&application=firefox]no I do not.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]But the implication you were making was different.[/quote3925705397]

Well, having an unsatisfactory record with the BBB is definitely not a positive thing. What you and I may know about how the BBB works is probably not the average perception of Joe Q. Consumer.

[quote3925705397="Jake"]The assumption was in that we are limiting the amount of gifts being sent out which is incorrect.[/quote3925705397]

What I was trying to say was that by not allowing people more than 90 days to complete the requirements of the site [i3925705397]will[/i3925705397] limit the amount of gifts sent out. What other purpose would than that addition to the terms of service be than to do so? It is specifically created to make it harder for people to complete the requirements and get their gift, thus keeping FP in business and in profit. (Okay, that is an assumption, but if you can explain any other reason why that rule was created I would love to hear it)

[quote3925705397="Jake"]Freepay is still profitable and making money. We were 18 on the Inc 500 fastest growing companies for last year. The numbers (and these are numbers other than dollars) point to the need for a change so we can ensure the long term health of the company and to continue to give away free stuff to our customers.[/quote3925705397]

Since you are not a publicly traded company and have no filings with the SEC then how does INC gather it's data to determine you are the fastest growing company and still currently in profit? Just out of curiosity...

[quote3925705397="Jake"]If you want to make a useful petition, go petition Congress not to pass the PATRIOT Act.[/quote3925705397]

I think one[=http//action.eff.org/site/Advocacy?id=214]one or two[=https//secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?JServSessionIdr010=9jkwpoa8q2.app20a&alertId=388&pg=makeACall&page=UserAction]two parties have already done that, but I'm glad to know you're against it.

Tholek

03-03-2006 13:00:42

Desperate people [i98bced8e0d]do[/i98bced8e0d] resort to desperate measures...compassion is what's called for. ;)

http/" alt=""/img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Tholek/compusasig1.jpg[/img98bced8e0d]

Jake

03-03-2006 13:13:54

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
So, as a consumer, all I understand is that know the requirements for your sites are different than they were before, and in my opinion, unfair.
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

Then vote with your feet.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
There [i4ae3ff6d82]are[/i4ae3ff6d82] other ways of companies raising capital to compensate for loss of income.
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

So you are recommending that we continue operating in the manner that we have - ever increasing volume with minimized restrictions - and raise capital to make up for a potential shortfall that could occur. What would be the point? Why shouldn't we be the ones managing our revenue stream responsibly instead of relying on others to bail us out? We don't get government subsidies like farmers and airlines do. Quite frankly, we don't want them. How long do you think a subsidy like that can go on exactly? Certainly not in perpetuity...

You are essentially implying that we should continue to operate in the same manner even if it means operating at a loss after some time passes and then look for handouts to save us from bankruptcy all because you want us to. Sorry, not going to happen. We still give stuff away for free and will continue to do so. Our change in policy is protecting us from failing [i4ae3ff6d82]in the long run[/i4ae3ff6d82]

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
I could say the same thing to you. Stop falsely advertising, reimburse your customers for their loss and fold as a company.
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

False advertising? roll Oh, do tell.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
If you think the authorities are looking over your shoulder then put back on your tin foil hat and go back to watching X-Files. You are low on the radar and you know it. The authorities [i4ae3ff6d82]rarely[/i4ae3ff6d82] shut down any company, and before they do they send warning letters and even before that they can take years to investigate.
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

12dailypro got shut down really fast. It didn't take 10 years.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
I for one have never accused FreePay of putting people on hold arbitrarily. In fact, I have defended you against it.

See 2nd to last rebuttal[=http//www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff137558.htm]See 2nd to last rebuttal
See 1st rebuttal[=http//www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff132253.htm]See 1st rebuttal
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

Good then. I am glad. The way I figure it, a grade C on A4F would have to be earned by a company being shady with arbitrary holds and not holding up to their promises. OC got moved from A to B for their OOD and their hold policy (as far as I heard). Why did we get moved lower if we aren't doing that? The reason is because of the poll of the users of the board. Nothing else.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
Well, having an unsatisfactory record with the BBB is definitely not a positive thing. What you and I may know about how the BBB works is probably not the average perception of Joe Q. Consumer.
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

Joe Q Consumer should learn that the BBB is nothing but a PR organization. They don't really do that much.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
It is specifically created to make it harder for people to complete the requirements and get their gift, thus keeping FP in business and in profit. (Okay, that is an assumption, but if you can explain any other reason why that rule was created I would love to hear it)
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

I'll have more news later.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
Since you are not a publicly traded company and have no filings with the SEC then how does INC gather it's data to determine you are the fastest growing company and still currently in profit? Just out of curiosity...
[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

I know we did disclose some data as proof of our claims. They don't just pick companies out of a hat.

[quote4ae3ff6d82="pogue"]
I think one[=http//action.eff.org/site/Advocacy?id=214]one or two[=https//secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?JServSessionIdr010=9jkwpoa8q2.app20a&alertId=388&pg=makeACall&page=UserAction]two parties have already done that[/quote4ae3ff6d82]

The more the merrier.

aguy

03-03-2006 13:17:07

rofl... sign a petition..

i sware people get more retarded every day

drunkmonkey

03-03-2006 13:20:29

At first, I wondered why Jake was responding...but I just figured it out. He's having the time of his life publicly bitchslapping this kid around the forum. lol

pogue

03-03-2006 13:29:39

[quoteecd9af11f3="drunkmonkey"]At first, I wondered why Jake was responding...but I just figured it out. He's having the time of his life publicly bitchslapping this kid around the forum. lol[/quoteecd9af11f3]

roll

I'm actually older than you, but don't go around flaunting your maturity level in public [iecd9af11f3]too[/iecd9af11f3] much.

RM200

03-03-2006 13:32:20

[quoteb3bd909d29="Jake"]Your petition will change nothing.[/quoteb3bd909d29]

Owned. lmao

drunkmonkey

03-03-2006 13:37:27

[quote842b1ec8c2="pogue"][quote842b1ec8c2="drunkmonkey"]At first, I wondered why Jake was responding...but I just figured it out. He's having the time of his life publicly bitchslapping this kid around the forum. lol[/quote842b1ec8c2]

roll

I'm actually older than you, but don't go around flaunting your maturity level in public [i842b1ec8c2]too[/i842b1ec8c2] much.[/quote842b1ec8c2]

I wouldn't be bragging about that. You'd save a lot of face if you just said you were 13.

pogue

03-03-2006 13:44:26

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]So you are recommending that we continue operating in the manner that we have - ever increasing volume with minimized restrictions - and raise capital to make up for a potential shortfall that could occur. What would be the point? Why shouldn't we be the ones managing our revenue stream responsibly instead of relying on others to bail us out? We don't get government subsidies like farmers and airlines do. Quite frankly, we don't want them. How long do you think a subsidy like that can go on exactly? Certainly not in perpetuity...[/quotee395f1b196]

Ever hear about loans? Venture capitalists? Selling stocks? Advertising? (I mean putting ads on your site, not putting them on others). Just a few ideas. Companies require income to function, and there are many ways to do it. You might check your local community college for some economics classes. Just a thought...

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]You are essentially implying that we should continue to operate in the same manner even if it means operating at a loss after some time passes and then look for handouts to save us from bankruptcy all because you want us to. Sorry, not going to happen. We still give stuff away for free and will continue to do so. Our change in policy is protecting us from failing [ie395f1b196]in the long run[/ie395f1b196][/quotee395f1b196]

Sure, whatever you say. Good luck with that.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]False advertising? roll Oh, do tell.[/quotee395f1b196]

You really don't want me to start posting stuff from the FTC about pyramid scams, matrix schemes, MLM, and etc. do you? I don't think you want to go down that road.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]12dailypro got shut down really fast. It didn't take 10 years.[/quotee395f1b196]

I'm really at a loss for why you keep bringing up 12dp. Your business has absolutely nothing to do with 12dp and is not selling investments of securities. I can check to see if you're in violation of laws that the SEC enforces though, if you're curious.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]The way I figure it, a grade C on A4F would have to be earned by a company being shady with arbitrary holds and not holding up to their promises. OC got moved from A to B for their OOD and their hold policy (as far as I heard). Why did we get moved lower if we aren't doing that? The reason is because of the poll of the users of the board. Nothing else.[/quotee395f1b196]

I have no idea, I can't speak on their behalf.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]Joe Q Consumer should learn that the BBB is nothing but a PR organization. They don't really do that much.[/quotee395f1b196]

That's an interesting idea. Maybe you should start an education campaign to let people know more about it.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]I'll have more news later.[/quotee395f1b196]

I will be eagerly awaiting to hear it.

[quotee395f1b196="Jake"]I know we did disclose some data as proof of our claims. They don't just pick companies out of a hat.[/quotee395f1b196]

I couldn't tell you. I could look into it and find out. I'd honestly never heard of the INC 500 before it was mentioned on Gratis/Freepay, but I don't really keep up with business journals and money magazines.

pogue

03-03-2006 13:46:24

[quote72682f4196="drunkmonkey"][quote72682f4196="pogue"][quote72682f4196="drunkmonkey"]At first, I wondered why Jake was responding...but I just figured it out. He's having the time of his life publicly bitchslapping this kid around the forum. lol[/quote72682f4196]

roll

I'm actually older than you, but don't go around flaunting your maturity level in public [i72682f4196]too[/i72682f4196] much.[/quote72682f4196]

I wouldn't be bragging about that. You'd save a lot of face if you just said you were 13.[/quote72682f4196]

If I were 13 I wouldn't be eligible for FP's sites. But, if you feel like insulting me more feel free to do it here[=http//www.no-one-gives-a-shit.com/]here

aguy

03-03-2006 13:49:07

Gee shows how much you really know about freepay huh?

13 is the minimum age u can do the sites. Why dont you research the TOS before you make a petition about it dumbfuck

Jake

03-03-2006 14:01:24

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]
Ever hear about loans? Venture capitalists? Selling stocks? Advertising? (I mean putting ads on your site, not putting them on others). Just a few ideas. Companies require income to function, and there are many ways to do it. You might check your local community college for some economics classes. Just a thought...
[/quoted9b8b04707]

Why should we take out loans to make up for losses? So we can get further into debt? Sure. roll Why the hell should we set ourselves up to lose money just because [id9b8b04707]you[/id9b8b04707] want us to? We are doing what needs to be done so that our company doesn't go under. If you don't like it, start your own. I guarantee you that if you reach the level that we have in our industry, you'll be forced to make the same decision that we have.

Selling stocks? We aren't stock brokers, we are a [id9b8b04707]marketing company.[/id9b8b04707] We make our money by marketing goods and services and we are continuing to do so. Perhaps you should take some business classes. This has nothing to do with economics.

I have an economics degree if you want to discuss that topic a bit further too. ;) Perhaps we can discuss game theory one day. P

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]Sure, whatever you say. Good luck with that.
[/quoted9b8b04707]

Thank you. P

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]You really don't want me to start posting stuff from the FTC about pyramid scams, matrix schemes, MLM, and etc. do you? I don't think you want to go down that road.
[/quoted9b8b04707]

We do not fall into any of those categories.

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]I'm really at a loss for why you keep bringing up 12dp. Your business has absolutely nothing to do with 12dp and is not selling investments of securities. I can check to see if you're in violation of laws that the SEC enforces though, if you're curious.
[/quoted9b8b04707]

12dp was shut down by the authorities. You were claiming that the authorities don't clamp down on companies for being shady.

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]
That's an interesting idea. Maybe you should start an education campaign to let people know more about it.
[/quoted9b8b04707]

Nah, I don't want to bother.

[quoted9b8b04707="pogue"]
I couldn't tell you. I could look into it and find out. I'd honestly never heard of the INC 500 before it was mentioned on Gratis/Freepay, but I don't really keep up with business journals and money magazines.[/quoted9b8b04707]

Its quite respected and renowned in business circles.

EatChex89

03-03-2006 14:20:58

HI JAKE!!1!one!! W3LC0mE to FIpG!!11!!

MainUnit

03-03-2006 14:29:59

pouge, stfu

no one cares about ur stupid petion. why don't u go back and make a petition to put babylon 5 back on tv or something lol

Rodney

03-03-2006 14:33:24

I've been following this thread because some good points were brought up by both sides and Jake is actually trying to respond to each point.

It seems clear that pogue is not just some "guy whining", but an educated consumer that's trying to make a point.

One thing seems off though.

@pogue when you write "I have nothing against Freepay or Jake" and then you write rude/insulting comments like

[quote9df9efe37f]You might check your local community college for some economics classes. Just a thought...[/quote9df9efe37f]

It really hurts your case. No need to make things personal if you are just arguing the issue of a change in a company's TOS negatively effecting its customers.

@Jake As I mentioned in another thread. There's a lot of wiggle room between 90 days and the 2 year scenario you mentioned.

It would be nice to see Freepay come to some sort of compromise on the timeline (maybe extend it to at least 6 months which is definitely more doable).

Even the biggest corporations (see this Google post)[=http//adsense.blogspot.com/2006/03/time-limit-for-adsense-referrals.html]the biggest corporations (see this Google post) listen to their customer base when they make company decisions that negatively effect their customers.

Compromise isn't such a bad thing.

Crynos

03-03-2006 14:33:26

As much as i dislike the changes, seeing jake decimate pogue's responses makes me smile )

Jake

03-03-2006 16:27:23

[quote61f596ed84="Rodney"]
@Jake As I mentioned in another thread. There's a lot of wiggle room between 90 days and the 2 year scenario you mentioned.

It would be nice to see Freepay come to some sort of compromise on the timeline (maybe extend it to at least 6 months which is definitely more doable).

Even the biggest corporations (see this Google post)[=http//adsense.blogspot.com/2006/03/time-limit-for-adsense-referrals.html]the biggest corporations (see this Google post) listen to their customer base when they make company decisions that negatively effect their customers.

Compromise isn't such a bad thing.[/quote61f596ed84]

We will see what happens down the road. I am sure if circumstances dictate, some modification to this will happen. For the moment, this is the way things are.

VrExe

03-03-2006 16:30:45

That would be sweet.

Jake, did u get my pm yet?[/sizeab82902e57]

St00pid

03-03-2006 16:33:25

[quoteeaf2648cd3="CollidgeGraduit"][quoteeaf2648cd3="nickman"][quoteeaf2648cd3="CollidgeGraduit"]And before someone says anything, NO I'm not riding FreePay's nuts. I've finished all the sites I'm going to do, and I'm content in waiting for my Xbox 360. I'm going to go buy a 360 when I can find one, and then just sell my Xbox 360 from Freepay.. so I have no vested interest in defending them or bashing them.[/quoteeaf2648cd3]

ya right, you are a TOTAL NUT RIDER!!!![/quoteeaf2648cd3]

ONLY URS LOLOLOL d(^_^)b[/quoteeaf2648cd3]

LOL WAT ABOT ME? d(^_^d)

As for the petition, fuck it. As long as I get my account processed and approved, it'll suffice.

Drummer16161616

03-03-2006 17:09:27

Fuck the petition if they still send out the gifts!

justinag06

03-03-2006 17:27:34

it would be nice to see a little extra time on a site like laptops

okdude

03-03-2006 17:52:20

[quote717b0394ba="Jake"]Your petition will change nothing.[/quote717b0394ba]

and this comes from Jack.[/size717b0394ba]

pjrm68

03-03-2006 18:17:36

I just posted this in another forum, but as I'm new here I thought I'd share it here too

Pogue - you do understand that getting items from Freepay is voluntary, right? Because you sound as if you feel that your civil rights are being violated. You're going to notify the FTC? And say what? That you don't like the way in which someone is offering to give you things for free? I am honestly just amazed at the sense of entitlement floating around since these new terms were announced. Freepay was a good deal, and you know what? It's STILL a good deal--because you get really expensive stuff for FREE. Has everyone forgotten that small but important detail?

Yes, the terms are now more restrictive than before, and yes, it will make getting your items more difficult. But if you don't like Freepay's terms, the answer is simple--don't be a customer of theirs. But starting a petition--reporting to the FTC--I mean, that's just in the realm of fantasy, and I totally understand why Jake is most likely laughing his rear end off at you as he responds in that thread. The things you're saying just show absolutely no understanding of the fact that Freepay is a business, and not Santa Claus.

I don't want to get into a flame war with you, because you seem to enjoy the back-and forth with Jake on that thread, but let's be serious--who cares if you make a petition? It's a private company. You might as well start a petition asking Apple to give away all the iPods without charging for them in the first place.

Am I thrilled about the new TOS? No. But like Jake said, if the only other option was for them to go out of business in a year, I'm willing to give them a chance under these new conditions. You're behaving--from day one--as if the new TOS says "We Are Going to Rip Everyone Off From Now On." It doesn't. It states a time limit, which to be honest, isn't exactly a crippling constraint. I've gotten an iPod from Freepay, and an LCD monitor, and I don't think I spent more than a month getting my referrals for each. So, 90 days doesn't seem impossible. Would I like to have forever to get all my referrals? Of course. But I'd also like a free car, and world peace, and a lot of other things I don't have a say in.

Remember, the company could have just cut and run, but they didn't. They're trying to stay in business. So before we all freak out, let's give them a chance. If in a few months time we see that they're not keeping up their end of the deal, THEN we can judge them. But for now, I'm still grateful for the free stuff I've gotten, and I'll try to work within the new constraints if I want anything else.

And let's all try to remember that we don't have a RIGHT to all this free stuff, okay?

csurge

03-03-2006 22:14:29

[quote4ac181b511="Jake"][quote4ac181b511="pogue"][quote4ac181b511="Jake"]If someone wants to give out their address to someone who doesn't have a privacy policy governing the way that information is used, then they are welcome to.[/quote4ac181b511]

The privacy policy is clearly noted on the web site here http//www.care2.com/help/membership/privacy.html The site is certified by TrustE.[/quote4ac181b511]

But if the petition and information makes its way into [i4ac181b511]your[/i4ac181b511] hands like you say it will before you send it, its integrity and [b4ac181b511]security are not guaranteed[/size4ac181b511][/b4ac181b511].[/quote4ac181b511]

SECURITY AS IN ... SAFETY?

LOL
http//timetraveler.ytmnd.com/

bring weapons XD

Rodney

03-03-2006 23:19:32

[quote721f0dc9c4]Yes, the terms are now more restrictive than before, and yes, it will make getting your items more difficult. But if you don't like Freepay's terms, the answer is simple--don't be a customer of theirs. [/quote721f0dc9c4]

Actually, I think pogue's point is that the answer doesn't have to be that simple.

If you are a customer of a company ("free stuff" or not) and you feel the company has not acted fairly, you have more than one option of "just letting it go and not patronizing that company anymore".

You can try to work with the company to a reasonable solution to the issue (support tickets, phone calls, emails, etc) and if that doesn't bring a solution, you can take the matter further if you feel you need a better resolution (go higher up in the company, write letters, talk to the "BBB", write your congressman, call Tom Martino, Chuck Norris or whoever).

Your only option isn't just to say, "hey, that sucks, oh well".

That might be the easiest option and the one most taken. Heck, it might even be the only useful option, but it's not the only option by a long shot.

People complaining and voicing their issues is how things get fixed. Not in a rude/snide/insulting way, but in a rational, documented, organized way. It's that whole squeaky wheel gets the oil thing.

As I mentioned before, just take a look at this post from Google, one of the world's largest corporations
http//adsense.blogspot.com/2006/03/time-limit-for-adsense-referrals.html

If those webmasters hadn't spoken up and voiced their disagreement with the Google policy, it wouldn't have changed. People spoke (as a unified/rational voice), posted in a forum where Google was listening, and things changed.